Strange request from my girlfriend...

T_Girl

Just a strnage request from my gf. Not sure how to approach it.
I'm a 33 year old guy, been with my gf about 5 months.

She was not really in the mood, so she says I'll have to do a bit of work to get her going for lovemaking. She starts to say "talk to me", and after a few attempts to give her something spicy, she says "I want you to imagine you are making love to another woman. I want you to describe what she looks like to me and who she is, and I want you to imagine you are making love to her when we make love". Then we got talking a bit more about it, and I gave her some random description (even though I wasn't really into it and was a bit uncomfortable). She also brough up my housemate... who she reckons I fancy a little bit (I like her as a friend but we have a lot more in common than me and my gf). and she starts to say how it would make more sense if I was with her because I have more stuff in common with her, etc. and she asks me why I don't want to ask her out (my housemate) and why we haven't gotten together. She says that she might be a bit upset if I left her for my housemate, but she'd get over it and move on, and it would probably be better in the long run.

You may say, "oh she sounds insecure", but in actual fact, after the above she really got going and we had some amazing lovemaking.
But I'm still a bit weirded out by it... she's 28, I'm 33.

tinkerbell

Ehhhhh ..... I'd dump her tbh. She tells you she'd be ok if you broke up with her. Sounds like she's trying to give you some not-so-subtle hints for you to break up but is too cowardly to do it herself.

T_Girl

Well... she didn't exactly say she'd be totally ok. She said she'd cry a bit and it would be difficult for her for a while. But she thinks she could get over it. When I pressed her on it, like "would it really not be such a big deal, would you bounce back just like that", she claimed she wasn't so sure and that she wouldn't really know unless it happened.

Sometimes it's hard to know how serious she is about things, and she is a bit of a headwrecker at times. She likes us to talk about people we fancy. For instance, she'll comment on the girl working at the restaurant and say how hot she looks, etc. trying to draw me out, and to get me to say something like "yeah, I would like to be with her". And she'll often talk about guys who are really good looking who she fancies. She will then often ask me if I'm a little jealous, etc. She loves all this kind of talk while I find it quite irritating. Especially the time we were talking about guys with rugby players builds, and she went on to say "I find that really big masculine type of body so attractive", knowing full well that it isn't my body type (I'm slim, athletic, more into yoga than bodybuilding). So she enjoys these games...

Not to mention the fact that she doesn't have any close female friends and prefers the company of guys. Most of these guys are fine, and I have no problems with her hanging out with them. But on a few occasions I've seen her teasing them a bit. e.g. when we were out drinking, she spent loads of time dancing with one of her male friends, a bit of twerking even at the end of the night, and she keeps reassuring me that it's just fun and she loves dancing. Then I find out later that the guy grabbed her and tried to do something more intimate that night. And I also found out that pretty much all of her male friends have fancied her at some point, and she met her "best friend" after she had a one night stand with him, and for the last 5 years they've been great friends. But as a guy... I think it's possible he has some sexual feelings towards her. I dunno...

IrishEyes19

sounds like a lot hassle to be with her, OP, cant be good for your own sanity. Have you expressed this to her that you arent ok with this type of behaviour, to be honest if you have and she is still doing this, I dont think she has must respect for you. The last thing I would want is my boyfriend to think I wanted anyone but him.

Big Bag of Chips

You just don't sound compatible, to be honest!

If her "thing" is talking about others to get turned on, then that's fine... But it is equally fine that it's not your thing!

I do think she's not that bothered about the relationship. She obviously loves male attention and is a bit of a flirt and some couples work well with that.

But if it's not for you, then why continue to put yourself through it?

T_Girl

Thanks for your responses and advice. It's helping to give me clarity, and sanity... helping me realise I'm not insane!

She knows how I feel about her dancing with that other fella when we were out. I knew that she didn't really fancy him that way (I think..), but I knew he fancied her. I also got the feeling she was enjoying the attention... in fact, she has a bit of an ego thanks to the amount of guys who keep asking her out and trying to chat her up. And these male friends she has, I was a bit upset when I figured out (from talking to her) that they all harboured feelings for her at some point. Even the lonely old 60 year old guy with the speech impediment who she meets [somewhat out of charity as he has lost his family and lives alone] and chats to... the poor old geezer once told her pretty much that he was in love with her. More massaging for her ego? Or does she meet him out of genuine goodwill and charity?

Would you believe it, everytime a guy chats her up or asks her out, she makes sure to tell me about it. I don't mind, usually it's harmless and funny, but sometimes I think it builds up her ego a bit too much and I'm not sure how much she values me. She also doesn't see any problem with me or her fancying someone else or potentially kissing someone else. I'm not sure I feel the need to do that, and she has even said that if I did do it, she'd feel I was just doing it to "get her back" in a case where she'd already been with someone else...

You guys have told me to lay down the law about how I feel about this stuff... but being honest, I don't know. Maybe it's ok, maybe I just need to adjust to this kind of behaviour.

"She obviously loves male attention and is a bit of a flirt and some couples work well with that."

Yes, so can this couple work well with that? Maybe... sometimes I find it fun. But I love her so much and sometimes... I wish it could be just me and her, and I wish she wouldn't cultivate feelings for others at times. I know she finds this exciting.. and the other night she said "oh my god, you're so boring - what am I doing?"... as if to say "what am I doing with you". But at other times we share amazing things together and have lovely times together, so ... it's a headwreck. And sometimes yeah, it does test my sanity, cos I'm still not sure where I really stand. I'm a bit ambivalent...

Loughc

T_Girl wrote: »

Yes, so can this couple work well with that? Maybe... sometimes I find it fun. But I love her so much and sometimes... I wish it could be just me and her, and I wish she wouldn't cultivate feelings for others at times. I know she finds this exciting.. and the other night she said "oh my god, you're so boring - what am I doing?"... as if to say "what am I doing with you".

But at other times we share amazing things together and have lovely times together, so ... it's a headwreck. And sometimes yeah, it does test my sanity, cos I'm still not sure where I really stand.

Looks obvious enough to me, you're not enough for this girl, she craves attention and she will always want attention from you and OTHER guys. You're better off getting out now before you get seriously hurt!

T_Girl

I don't understand though. Surely she'll reach a point when she realises I'm enough for her? Where she feels happy and secure?

She had a very unhappy childhood and I have a feeling she may have been abused. She's told me her Dad used to use a horse whip on her and her siblings. So... knowing that she is very fragile emotionally and is a bit messed up in her head about relationships/sex, I guess I'm happy to give her some leeway. But sometimes it requires a LOT of patience and understanding on my part. Am I too tolerant?

Loughc

T_Girl wrote: »

I don't understand though. Surely she'll reach a point when she realises I'm enough for her? Where she feels happy and secure??

And why should you settle for anything less until she does, what if it takes her 10 years to realise you're enough. Can you cope with 10 more head wrecking years?

Ye're not right for each other, trust me bud there's someone there perfect for you and who will make you feel like you're their world! And you deserve to make someone feel like that and to have someone make you feel like that!

T_Girl

Loughc wrote: »

Looks obvious enough to me, you're not enough for this girl, she craves attention and she will always want attention from you and OTHER guys. You're better off getting out now before you get seriously hurt!

Funny you should say that... recently she started talking about a love affair she had with a guy from France. It was a few years back, but she started telling me how much she admired him and how attractive he was to her. Then she started saying "I sometimes wonder where he is now and how I'd feel if I met him again". I pressed her a bit more on it, and she admitted that she had only met him 2 or 3 times, but on one of those occasions she'd snogged him while she was married and 6 months pregnant (it didn't go any further than a snog - some of the reason she gave were that she was pregnant and the father of her unborn child was in the same building). So her husband at the time obviously wasn't enough, but she takes solace in the fact that she had told her husband of the time what he was in for and that she would probably snog this guy, and the husband somewhat "accepted it" as she says.... I started asking her if she still has feeling for him (the french lad), and she said "it was a few years back, who knows", but she admitted that if he came on the scene again she isn't sure how it would pan out. I got the impression she might still fancy him... he was obviously in her mind.

So would she do the same to me as she did with her ex-husband? Possibly... can I live with that? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Loughc

T_Girl wrote: »

I got the impression she might still fancy him... he was obviously in her mind.

So would she do the same to me as she did with her ex-husband? Possibly... can I live with that? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

How is NONE of this ringing the GET OUT alarm bell in your head?!?

She cheated on her EX-Husband WHILE 6 Months pregnant. (Yes kissing is a form of cheating as is having an emotional/physical connection to someone else)

T_Girl

Loughc wrote: »

She cheated on her EX-Husband WHILE 6 Months pregnant. (Yes kissing is a form of cheating as is having an emotional/physical connection to someone else)

I agree, but she doesn't believe in a lot of the traditional relationship rules. I think she's more into a kind of honest, open agreement that at times we'll fancy other people, and we'll inform each other if we feel like shifting someone else. She says she wouldn't have minded if her ex-husband did the same thing - once they had talked about it and were honest (not quietly sneaking around). So she claims that when everything is out in the open, it isn't a problem and there shouldn't be any insecurities.

She loves asking me "would that make you jealous"... I think she senses how this stuff makes me uneasy at times, and I think she gets a bit of a thrill out of winding me up too lol... She's such a messer... but I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I'm going to be happy in this kind of relationship because I like the idea of an open relationship but I've never been in this kind of situation before. sometimes I think she likes wrecking my head a bit too and manipulating me emotionally.

T_Girl

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

sounds like a lot hassle to be with her, OP, cant be good for your own sanity. Have you expressed this to her that you arent ok with this type of behaviour, to be honest if you have and she is still doing this, I dont think she has must respect for you. The last thing I would want is my boyfriend to think I wanted anyone but him.

She knows I'm not happy with her fancying and sexually dancing with / teasing other men. I was bawling crying in her arms the last time I found out one of the guys touched her. she claims innocence, and said it made her feel ackward and it wasn't her intention to turn him on. But I was bawling crying like I hadn't done in years... so much so, she ended up bawling as well and we had a big cry together!

So yeah, she know my feelings...

Loughc

T_Girl wrote: »

I was bawling crying in her arms the last time I found out one of the guys touched her. But I was bawling crying like I hadn't done in years... so much so, she ended up bawling as well and we had a big cry together!

So yeah, she know my feelings...

Its really not a healthy relationship dude! Get out now for your own sake before you sink anymore time or efforts in it!

Big Bag of Chips

T_Girl wrote: »

I agree, but she doesn't believe in a lot of the traditional relationship rules.

But, do you?

....I like the idea of an open relationship

Do you? Could you really handle it? Judging by this..

I was bawling crying in her arms the last time I found out one of the guys touched her

... it doesn't seem like it. How would you cope with her having sex with someone else? And if you are in an "open" relationship - why be in a relationship with her at all? Why not just be a "friends with benefits" situation instead?

yoloc

OP, ask her opinon on swinging, 3sums etc... id be interesred to hear her views on it after what youve wrote in here.

T_Girl

yoloc wrote: »

OP, ask her opinon on swinging, 3sums etc... id be interesred to hear her views on it after what youve wrote in here.

I already have done. She said she likes the idea of us bringing another girl into the bed with us. She would like to watch me doing things with another girl and I think she also fancies the idea of being with a girl as it happens. She mentioned my housemate of course. Not sure if my housemate would be into it or not!

In any case, it seems that she'd prefer to have a girl along with us rather than a guy.

strobe

Not to be flipant, but...

She's clearly a massive bitch. Dump her.

T_Girl

And another thing; she also likes throwing it into the conversation whenever she's feeling broody! She says she'd really love to have more kids. At the moment she has a 3 year old lad, and despite moaning about how difficult it is for her to travel with him and move around Europe (she's a bit of a part-time nomad like myself!) she is crazy to have loads more kids. We haven't even talked about this much but she just throws it into the conversation to see how I'll react.

Think she needs to figure out how much she's into me before we have kids eh?

T_Girl

strobe wrote: »

Not to be flipant, but...

She's clearly a massive bitch. Dump her.

There are times that she is a bit of an a$$hole, yes...

But at the same time, what makes you say "massive bitch"? She's a bit mixed up about certain things, but it's not all doom and gloom in this relationship... there are times I'm really happy with her. we are both musicians, play in a band together and share a love of music for instance. We also share a love of travel, and of backpacking and going hiking off the beaten track in Europe, etc. Just incase you're wondering why I bother. There are good things, and that's what keeps me around. And the physical chemistry is also very good. And I think she's one of the few people I've ever totally, completely fell in love with and had a relationship with... that's what makes this so hard.

yoloc

T_Girl wrote: »

I already have done. She said she likes the idea of us bringing another girl into the bed with us. She would like to watch me doing things with another girl and I think she also fancies the idea of being with a girl as it happens. She mentioned my housemate of course. Not sure if my housemate would be into it or not!

In any case, it seems that she'd prefer to have a girl along with us rather than a guy.

Marry her, serious!! Would love a bird like this.

MagicMarker

I'd run a mile. But have a threesome first.

Gongoozler

Sounds like you've got your own insecurities if you're really considering this a viable relationship. She's self centred, cripplingly insecure, she's already cheated on her husband, has conversations to see how you react, tells you she'd be fine if you left her for someone else.. I would go on but I'm actually standing in tescos doing shopping.
Doesn't sound like she's into you at all.

T_Girl

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'd run a mile. .

I don't know if I'm going to do that as we have some travel plans together next month and... I'm still thinking somehow we could make it work if we are just alone together and can focus on the things that bring us closer, like our love of music. It's all the other emotional stuff that I'm finding difficult... maybe I just need to let her do her thing without me, when she feels like it?

She has often asked me why I'm with her, and said stuff like "I'm a terrible girlfriend"... but she keeps reeling me back because she knows I'm addicted...

T_Girl

Gongoozler wrote: »

Sounds like you've got your own insecurities if you're really considering this a viable relationship.

I do have my insecurutues. Being alone is one of them I guess... That's what this post is making me realise more and more. feeling a bit stressed at the moment as I'm wondering if this relationship could just be a reflection of my own insecurities. I don't know what I'm doing sometimes.

strobe

T_Girl wrote: »

But at the same time, what makes you say "massive bitch"? She's a bit mixed up about certain things, but it's not all doom and gloom in this relationship... there are times I'm really happy with her. we are both musicians, play in a band together and share a love of music for instance. We also share a love of travel, and of backpacking and going hiking off the beaten track in Europe, etc. Just incase you're wondering why I bother. There are good things, and that's what keeps me around. And the physical chemistry is also very good. And I think she's one of the few people I've ever totally, completely fell in love with and had a relationship with... that's what makes this so hard.

She deliberately says and does things, either knowing full well or just not really caring that they will make you feel bad, to entertain herself or make herself feel better.

Textbook definition of a massive bitch, man.

You like the same music and like travelling together and the sex is great? That's great dude. Have all the sex and music and travelling you want with her. But leave it at that, this ones not for keeping. She's not a nice person.

T_Girl

Gongoozler wrote: »

she's already cheated on her husband, has conversations to see how you react

In fairness I kept trying to draw her out on this one. And she doesn't consider it "cheating" when she has already discussed her attraction with her fella, and prepared him for the possibility of her wanting to snog another fella.

When I asked her how her husband felt emotionally about this, she was a bit murky and unsure. I almost felt that she hadn't even thought about that before because she was so besotted with this other fella... maybe she didn't even care.

T_Girl

strobe wrote: »

She's not a nice person.

I'm starting to feel see this sometimes tbh... the responses to this post has started to ring a lot of big alarm bells in my head, I'm starting to wonder why I sometimes can't see the wood from the trees :rolleyes: Not sure how long I want to travel with her and play music with her if she isn't a keeper... is it all in vain if she isn't going to change and sort her head out (maybe get some therapy?). I'm wondering what's the point sometimes if we are as badly matched as you guys are suggesting.

Thanks again for the clarity everybody. :eek:

T_Girl

strobe wrote: »

She deliberately says and does things, either knowing full well or just not really caring that they will make you feel bad, to entertain herself or make herself feel better.

Textbook definition of a massive bitch, man.

She definitely does the above. If she knows I feel strongly about something, she'll deliberately put up an argument against it. She never just agrees, she'll always try and disprove what I've said or make my argument look stupid. Oh and she laughs *at* me a lot, almost as much as she laughs with me... which is irritating at times.

allym

Lad, the fact you say that you're "addicted" to her is such a red flag.

Yes we can all be mad about someone, but putting up with crap cos you feel you need them is just unhealthy.

She KNOWS how uncomfortable her flirting with other guys makes you, yet does it any way and continues to talk about fancying other people. That's a real lack of respect and you shouldn't put up with it.

T_Girl

allym wrote: »

Lad, the fact you say that you're "addicted" to her is such a red flag.

Yes we can all be mad about someone, but putting up with crap cos you feel you need them is just unhealthy.

She KNOWS how uncomfortable her flirting with other guys makes you, yet does it any way and continues to talk about fancying other people. That's a real lack of respect and you shouldn't put up with it.

In fairness to her, she has toned down the flirting with other guys ever since that incident that left me in tears. We've decided that if she wants to go out dancing, she can do it on her own. She doesn't have many female friends to go out with tho (she tells me that most girls hate her for some reason - possibly because she's so quiet and introverted). She gets on great with lads tho (wonder why!).

But she does continue to talk about fellas that she finds really hot. Like one of my friends; "Oh, Jack is the really hot looking guy?". And yeah, she probably knows that it makes me a little jealous. It's like she's trying to condition me into a state where I'm used to her fancying other people and I don't care anymore, or something...

But when I start to feel a lot of pain in my heart, and confusion, as a result of living with her then... yeah, you're right - putting up with this is not healthy She's going away for a few weeks on Sunday so maybe I'll put up with it for another week and then see how I feel... but this thread is starting to make me lean in the direction of ending it.
I should add that she is incredible quiet, introverted, shy, etc. and has difficulty meeting people. I fear she suffers from depression too, and she tells me how lonely she is and how she feels she doesn't have any real friends anymore who she can talk to (they have all left to go to other countries). As a teenager she was committed to a mental institution (for a month I think) for attempting suicide... so I'm throwing her a frickin bone here, in a lot of ways. But maybe it isn't doing me much good to keep trying to make the relationship a happy one as I don't know if she's ready for happiness at all.

DoctorBoo

It doesn't sound good to be honest. This relationship isn't making you happy. You seem to focus a lot on what her problems are and how she feels, to the neglect of how this situation makes you feel.
Your description of her makes her seem very manipulative. She's pulling your strings and seems to enjoy your reactions to her provocations. Here's what I understand from her behaviour:
Telling you how attractive other men are = Keeping you in a state of uncertainty, eroding your self-esteem
Flirting with other men = Reminding you that you are second best, she has other options
Discussing the flirting = Giving herself advance permission to cheat on you (she has already done this and will probably do it again)

This is not a good relationship for you. Although she seems to have convinced you that any objections you have to the situation are because you are not alternative enough, there's really nothing wrong with admitting that this type of relationship isn't for you. There are people who like open relationships, but they are usually a type of person quite different to you.
Cut your losses and find someone else. You deserve a better relationship.

LegacyUser

If this relationship were based on real love, it wouldn't be so much of an effort - you shouldn't have to ask yourself all these questions ... and trying to analyse every single situation.
Unless she realises she has a problem and does something about it, she is not going to change.

There's bound to be someone simpler somewhere waiting for you


Best of luck.

strobe

Ok man, despite my two previous posts, I think maybe just ending things might be a bit harsh/rash. I do think she's being a bitch, but sometimes with 'damaged' people it's not necesarilly and inate thing... and despite what some people say, people can, and do, change, all the time, everywhere, everyday... if they want to and are willing to put in the work.

If you think she's worth it, maybe consider having one big balls on the table heart to heart with her. Tell herwhat she does that makes you feel like crap, tell her you're not in the mind to put up with it. But if she is willing to try and change, whether that means counciling for her issues or whatever else, then you think she's worth being there for.

But... if after that, if she agrees to tryand sort her behaviour out, you need to be prepared to walk if it becomes apparent she's not making the effort or just going straight back to her old ways.

Best of luck however it works out man, genuinely.

beks101

Oh man.
What a car crash.

OP, I literally facepalmed my way through the entire thread. This woman has manipulated you forty shades of stupid, to the point where you have "given her leeway" and "thrown her a bone" in terms of her disrespectful flirting, head-wrecking put-downs and selfish, self-absorbed, hurtful behaviour towards you, simply because you perceive her to be "too messed up" to know better.

Fcuk that for a bag of chips, to be perfectly honest. I'm messed up. We're all messed up. I don't doubt she's been through some pretty hard times in her childhood and adolescence - but she is TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS OLD NOW - and she's STILL engaging in these silly little relationship games, reeling a guy in only to bulldoze his self-esteem with her constant need for attention and validation and reassurance that every other man who crosses her path fancies her - and that's simply not conducive to a healthy and happy relationship for you. Because you're not a masochist.

Read this carefully: there is NO. EXCUSE. GOOD. ENOUGH. to justify her behaviour. Nothing can justify the fact that you love this girl, seemingly treat her with care and respect, and are constantly having it thrown back in your face. "Messed up" - fcuk that. Most people haven't had the prettiest childhoods, most people are riddled with personal issues - a history of alcoholism or depression or a dysfunctional family background yada yada - and yet most people don't use that as a Get Out of Jail Free card every time they disrespect, abuse, manipulate, mock, taunt, tease and tear apart the hearts of the people in their life that love them. She's an adult, the past is behind her, and all your "leeways" are just enabling her.

Maybe she's been surrounded for too long by similar enablers and it's YOUR JOB to put your foot down and walk away. This girl isn't good for you and you've known that for a while. You're in a toxic relationship that can never bring you any security or stability and you're only staying because you need the validation that you ARE "enough" for her - even if it takes twenty years to get it. (More likely, never tbh) She's already eroded your self esteem enough to make sure she has the upper hand in the relationship and you won't be going anywhere any time soon - that clearly is her relationship pattern. She has you where she wants you.

She's not some goddess that you are lucky to be in a relationship with. Don't let all her little dalliances and flirtations and dirty dancing and admiring glances from other men lead you down that path where you have her on a pedestal. Most women could garner the same attention off men if they put forward the same effort that she has; the difference is, most women who are attached don't, because it's disrespectful and inappropriate and frankly, embarrassing to all and sundry. It's embarrassing to watch and it's embarrassing to be a part of if it's your OH and a part of our social conditioning not to. A confident, mature, responsible, self-assured and worth-while woman will instinctively know this. Your girlfriend is none of these things. (And probably the reason why women seem to "hate" her too - another warning sign. We can see through her bullsh1t)

Walk away OP. Assert yourself and your self-worth and call it a day. There's no happy endings with this one. And you already know that.

tinkerbell

OP, why did you start a thread on this if you have no interest in actually doing something about this? Instead, all you do is justify her actions and talk about having kids with this nutcase. Stop justifying what she does. It is not right. You two are on completely different wave lengths. She openly flirts with other men, she dances with other men, she talks about how much she fancies other men. You are not enough for her and clearly never will be. In fact, I don't think any guy would be enough for her - she clearly is an attention seeking ho-bag who wants the entire male population running after her. To say she cheated on her husband while 6 months pregnant is so screwed up. You are clearly on another planet if you can justify her actions.

Start showing yourself some respect and dump her. Plenty more fish in the sea. Your relationship is not normal. Get out now before you get this girl pregnant and you are stuck with her for life then, while watching from the sidelines as she cheats on you when she's once again six months pregnant!

alias06

T_Girl wrote: »

And another thing; she also likes throwing it into the conversation whenever she's feeling broody! She says she'd really love to have more kids. At the moment she has a 3 year old lad, and despite moaning about how difficult it is for her to travel with him and move around Europe (she's a bit of a part-time nomad!) she is crazy to have loads more kids. We haven't even talked about this much but she just throws it into the conversation to see how I'll react.

Think she needs to figure out how much she's into me before we have kids eh?

OMG Get out now. Do not have a kid with this women! You are playing with fire here. Dump her and move on. You know you have to.

NicoleL88

beks101 wrote: »

Oh man.
What a car crash.
I literally facepalmed my way through the entire thread.

This. What on earth are you doing with her? Do you really have that little respect for yourself?

coolhandluke

Just another self obsessed child, with a broken marriage and kid to boot........you think she's going to change for you ?

More fool you pal...!

Steamed Hams

OP break up with we now. She will ruin your life. End it.

Elmer Blooker

oh dear! A femme fatale , the ruination of many a man.
There's enough posts here telling you to get out asap and here's another one!

fungun

whatever you do dont have a kid with her as things are now, it will make things worse not better.

The only possible reason not to walk away imo is that if you consider her to be someone who just has her fantasies and realities mixed up. Her wanting an open relationship or allowing each other some flexibility in that way can be fine for in relationships but (a) this needs positive, honest, open communication, which you dont seem to have and (b) both partners need to want it and be happy with the other enjoying themselves, which you dont seem to like.

If you both want to go down this path, you initially need a strong conversation with her where she agrees your relationship with her is #1, honest always. She needs to cop on and separate her fantasies from reality and act normally, not trying to make you jealous. And when I have seen this be a success its *part* of a happy relationship, not it all.

But frankly, as it stands, i cant see how this can end anything other than badly....unless she has a large change in behaviour

heretochat

She is playing with your head pal and the sad thing is that you can see that yourself and won't do anything about it..

Any one of us on here could advise you as to what the best thing to do is (i.e. run a country mile) but I get the impression it will make no difference and you will go back for more ritual humiliation.

Sleepy

Unless you enjoy the role of cuckold and that's your thing, get out of this before she has an "accident" with birth control. This girl will cheat on you until the day she finds a "better option" who's prepared to put up with her bull**** and then she'll do the same to him.

LegacyUser

OP, just food for thought, but...

What if... instead of being a 'horrible insecure head-wrecker bitch' blablabla she is just very liberated and adventurous when it comes to love? What if she does love you a lot but she is a free-spirited woman, who believes in accepting that it is normal to love one person but also desire someone else?

To me, it sounds more like she wants an open or polyamorous relationship with you, and she has been very honest and upfront about it. You said both of you are artistic, enjoy traveling, etc. Maybe look into these options. You would be surprised, it might actually suit you quite a lot too. Of course it's hard to deal with jealousy and a lot of other things, but you can find true love in these arrangements too and have a very genuine and fun connection with your partner. Check a few forums on it or talk to people who have tried. You will see they have really different opinions from what you received in this thread.

I'd ask her directly if she would prefer to go that way (it sounds like she pretty much said that already), and if so, you could look into it with a very open mind and get information on the subject. And then decide whether you would like to give it a go or not.

Here is an interesting link for this btw: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23726120 and more and more people are writing books and articles about this style of loving.

T_Girl

beks101 wrote: »

Oh man.

Read this carefully: there is NO. EXCUSE. GOOD. ENOUGH. to justify her behaviour. Nothing can justify the fact that you love this girl, seemingly treat her with care and respect, and are constantly having it thrown back in your face.

You're in a toxic relationship that can never bring you any security or stability and you're only staying because you need the validation that you ARE "enough" for her - even if it takes twenty years to get it.

Walk away OP. Assert yourself and your self-worth and call it a day. There's no happy endings with this one. And you already know that.

Thanks for your long post. It's true though, I feel that I have given her a lot of care, respect and love. When she was stuck, I helped her move house and let her put all her stuff (and her kids stuff) in my house as well as use my car. I have no idea how she would have managed if I hadn't helped, because she didn't know anyone else with a car and space for all her stuff after she moved house (she had to go back to her parents in england for a while with tje kid), she would have been really stuck and I broke my arse helping her out there.

I keep hoping she will just see how much I love her and care for her... and that realisation will make her change her ways and somehow reflect back my love. But it's never enough it seems, she always wants a little more or isn't quite happy with things as they are.

She talked about how she'd like to kill herself last night and how that would solve everything. Just casually threw it in as she was booking flights online... nice. Fair enough, she's going through hell with her kid / kids Dad/ her parents, lack of support from friends and family... but I wonder if she's trying to scare me or something. More manipulation? And how can I break up with someone who is virtually suicidal?

tinkerbell wrote: »

OP, why did you start a thread on this if you have no interest in actually doing something about this?

Start showing yourself some respect and dump her. Plenty more fish in the sea. Your relationship is not normal. Get out now before you get this girl pregnant and you are stuck with her for life then, while watching from the sidelines as she cheats on you when she's once again six months pregnant!

But I do have an interest in doing something about this. As I've said, the thread is waking me up quite a bit, and making me realise that my doubts about her, and about the relationship are not unreasonable - and that she is a narcissistic and manipulative individual, and not a nice person. I've often felt those things before, but she'll do something nice, or cook me a meal, or we'll share some nice times together and I'll think "ah... maybe I was being unreasonable"... you understand? Relationships aren't always all bad. The good times are what keep it going, and make you doubt if you should really end it.

heretochat wrote: »

She is playing with your head pal and the sad thing is that you can see that yourself and won't do anything about it..

Any one of us on here could advise you as to what the best thing to do is (i.e. run a country mile) but I get the impression it will make no difference and you will go back for more ritual humiliation.

It will make a difference. It is already making a difference believe me. At the end of this week I'm going to have that talk with her. I'm tired of having my head played with. Every time things are going nicely, she'll drop something into the conversation to "spice it up" and usually amuse herself somehow by winding me up or playing on my insecurities. I've had enough!

Sleepy wrote: »

Unless you enjoy the role of cuckold and that's your thing, get out of this before she has an "accident" with birth control. This girl will cheat on you until the day she finds a "better option" who's prepared to put up with her bull**** and then she'll do the same to him.

Ouch... yeah, I can see she'd like me to play the role of cuckold. I think that's what she's looking for alright, and I've no doubt she'll do the same to her next partner. But she ain't going to do it with me...

Defiler Of The Coffin

T_Girl wrote: »

She talked about how she'd like to kill herself last night and how that would solve everything. Just casually threw it in as she was booking flights online... nice. Fair enough, she's going through hell with her kid / kids Dad/ her parents, lack of support from friends and family... but I wonder if she's trying to scare me or something. More manipulation? And how can I break up with someone who is virtually suicidal?

All this drama and nonsense, for someone you've been with only five months? Relationships should be fun and easy, this is anything but. You seriously need to get rid before she wrecks your self-esteem even further. This relationship is going nowhere fast, except maybe to a lifetime of pain and heartbreak for you. Do the right thing here man and finish it. You won't be long meeting someone who will treat you with respect and make you happy.

T_Girl

I want to say a really heartfelt thanks for all of your messages. They were very helpful, more than you could know. And believe me you haven't wasted your time with me. I've thought about each and every thing you've said and I've considered things from various points of view. But the bottom-line is that some things are just not acceptable and I have to stand up for myself, and be strong enough to walk away.

A lot of the things you guys have said, I have probably already thought or considered, but kept denying it and letting things slide... because a femme fatale really does cast a spell over you :eek:

beks101

T_Girl wrote: »

She talked about how she'd like to kill herself last night and how that would solve everything. Just casually threw it in as she was booking flights online... nice. Fair enough, she's going through hell with her kid / kids Dad/ her parents, lack of support from friends and family... but I wonder if she's trying to scare me or something. More manipulation? And how can I break up with someone who is virtually suicidal?

Wrong question. The actual question to be asking is, how can I stay with someone so manipulative that I don't know whether she's using the threat of suicide to keep me by her side? How can I stay with someone for whom my trust is so non-existant that I question her motives for every single word that comes out of her mouth?

Those are the important questions to consider. Maybe she's actually suicidal; maybe it's all a little too easy for her to say she is because she senses your fading enthusiasm for the relationship. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that happiness, trust and peace of mind are always going to evade you and in order to prioritize your own mental health, you need to leave.

So you leave, and if/when the threats increase (which I've no doubt of, if her personality remains consistent), you call her parents / a sibling / someone close to her, tell them what she's been threatening, tell them you're no longer a part of her life and cut all contact. It's no longer your business. Ignore the part where you "feel like a terrible person" - that's just the manipulation, that's what you've been designed to feel to stay where she wants you.

Truth is - to do the right thing for yourself, you're going to have to put up with a LOT of pain and discomfort and doubt. I'm sure you'll have lots more of those "nice moments", lots more great sex, lots more sweetness and light just at the crucial moment when she's gone and torn your heart out again with more of her self absorbed twaddle.

But here's the reality - she is NEVER going to change her ways. Your love and respect and care will NEVER be reciprocated in the same way. Here's a little piece of wisdom: if someone tells you something about themselves, LISTEN. She has told you loud and clear that she has cheated before; and on her husband when she was six months pregnant. She has told you she doesn't really care if you break up with her for your roommate. She has told you "all of the guys in her life have fallen in love with her" at some point and her behaviour has told you why - because nothing in her actions is saying, "forget it buddy, I'm in a committed relationship".

All of these things have been loud and clear. Are they good enough for you? Are you able to live with someone whom you can't trust and can't read and can't figure out if they ever really love you because they're caught up in their own narcissistic need to be wanted by every/any man - because occasionally they say a few nice things and make you dinner?

T_Girl

beks101 wrote: »

Wrong question. The actual question to be asking is, how can I stay with someone so manipulative that I don't know whether she's using the threat of suicide to keep me by her side? How can I stay with someone for whom my trust is so non-existant that I question her motives for every single word that comes out of her mouth?

I think a lot of her behaviour is automatic. I don't believe she's intentionally being manipulative, she's just very emotional and she thinks way too much about things without really seeing how wrapped up in herself she is. Sometimes though, I think she is calculating. But other times I just think she is like a puppet - she has no control whatsoever over her mind and her thoughts, so she says all sorts of things and acts out things almost blindly, without really understanding how it can impact me, consciously she may not mean to manipulate, but subconsciously she keeps getting caught in the same behavious patterns.

Oh, and then she calls me "over sensitive" if I get upset when she says something I perceive as nasty... like to stop sending her photos unless they are "really interesting" (I only sent a couple of photos, one of food and one of a random friend making some cake).

beks101 wrote: »

Those are the important questions to consider. Maybe she's actually suicidal; maybe it's all a little too easy for her to say she is because she senses your fading enthusiasm for the relationship. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that happiness, trust and peace of mind are always going to evade you and in order to prioritize your own mental health, you need to leave.

I do.
But she made certain that I understood that she was not suicidal - she says she thought a bit about dying, and how easy it would make everything. but she had not been thinking about suicide (e.g. how to do it, where, when, etc.).

I believe her about this, because she attempted suicide as a 15/16 year old so she knows the difference, and she isn't at a very bad stage. She just sometimes enjoyed the thought of dying.

beks101 wrote: »

Truth is - to do the right thing for yourself, you're going to have to put up with a LOT of pain and discomfort and doubt. I'm sure you'll have lots more of those "nice moments", lots more great sex, lots more sweetness and light just at the crucial moment when she's gone and torn your heart out again with more of her self absorbed twaddle.

Nice moments...possibly. well she's leaving town for a few months (leaving this weekend), and has asked me to come out a visit her in a nice sunny country. I'm considering not going and ending it before she leaves at the weekend. But a part of me is thinking of telling her I want the break up, but maybe going away as friends or something. I'll see...

beks101 wrote: »

But here's the reality - she is NEVER going to change her ways. Your love and respect and care will NEVER be reciprocated in the same way. Here's a little piece of wisdom: if someone tells you something about themselves, LISTEN. She has told you loud and clear that she has cheated before; and on her husband when she was six months pregnant. She has told you she doesn't really care if you break up with her for your roommate. She has told you "all of the guys in her life have fallen in love with her" at some point and her behaviour has told you why - because nothing in her actions is saying, "forget it buddy, I'm in a committed relationship".

All of these things have been loud and clear. Are they good enough for you? Are you able to live with someone whom you can't trust and can't read and can't figure out if they ever really love you because they're caught up in their own narcissistic need to be wanted by every/any man - because occasionally they say a few nice things and make you dinner?

You are so right there - when somebody tells you something about themselves - LISTEN! We all too often don't. I ignore a lot of things if I really fancy someone, it's like selective listening. Or sometimes I'll think "ah but she didn't really mean that". Stupid me... those things are loud and clear. I'm blinded by love obviously, or maybe it's the lust...

tinkerbell

OP, WAKE UP. You don't believe she's intentionally manipulative? You are being taken for a complete fool. You say she has no control over her mind or her thoughts? What planet are you on? She is in total control her. Stop wasting your time justifying her actions, she has not intention of changing. Either dump her and move on with your life, or just stay with her, keep justifying her crazy behaviour and don't be surprised when she leaves you heartbroken in a few months / years.