Removing Gas for DOE

Animord

Hi, I was looking for a bit of help please.

I need to take the gas out for the DOE and I can't get it out - the canister is too big to tip. I am pretty sure it went it with just some odd manoeuvring, but it was years ago in Portugal that I saw it being done.

Also I am not sure about how the canister itself is turned off. I thought it would be like the cooker ones, but it is not. Any tips?

kelbal

See the attached pic. Twist the dial at the very top clockwise to turn the gas off. Then twist the connection to the hose anticlockwise to disconnect. When reconnecting the hose, only tighten it hand-tight, don't use a spanner.
With the hose disconnected you should be able to tilt the bottle out - it looks like you'll have to tilt it over to the right as much as you can, but if it went in it must come out!! That looks a really old canister, the the protection bit at the top around the connections isn't quite as tall as the ones sold these days
Do you need to disconnect the gas for the DOE? I left mine in, and didn't make a difference

Animord

Thanks. Yes the DOE people told me I had to remove the gas and empty the water tanks before testing.

That gas was bought in April 2010 in Portugal.

I will try your suggestion, at least if I can disconnect it, it will make the manoeuvring of it easier!

Thanks a million.

Animord

Woo Hoo! You are a genius Kelbal! Thanks so much for that. I disconnected it and then I suddenly remembered the technique for getting it out - involved a lot of shifting a bit back and tilting and back a bit again. Anyway it is out now and disconnected. Thanks so much!

niloc1951

Animord wrote: »

Thanks. Yes the DOE people told me I had to remove the gas and empty the water tanks before testing..................

Rubbish, there is nothing in the test manual which requires water tanks to be empty and gas bottles removed.
My own motorhome and those of many of our club members have never been subject to such a request.
The VTN centre you have spoken to do not know their business.

If asked why their answer would be interesting to read.

paddyp

They measure the unladen weight at the test center if its too far from the unladen weight on the registration cert / plates they can't test it. They won't test a van unless its completely empty so probably just applying the same to the campers. Anyway a full water tank would easy throw up a suspension imbalance so makes sense to drain it.

Animord

niloc1951 wrote: »

Rubbish, there is nothing in the test manual which requires water tanks to be empty and gas bottles removed.
My own motorhome and those of many of our club members have never been subject to such a request.
The VTN centre you have spoken to do not know their business.

If asked why their answer would be interesting to read.

Well, to be honest, I would say they probably haven't tested one before. I have had problems already because they wouldn't test it without the registration documents but I can't get the registration documents until it has been tested. (it is imported from abroad) I eventually went to the tax office and they wrote out a notice on the tax form saying that it can be tested without the registration document.
I called into the DOE centre on Friday and showed them everything and explained all my problems. To be fair, they became a lot more helpful and I am hoping it will be ok.

niloc1951

See this "testing on all Motor Caravans (including those over 3,500 kgs tested in a HGV Test Lane) will be carried out on the basis of the weight presented" in This RSA Document

Once the vehicle is not exceeding its GVW or individual Axle Weights is can be tested at a VTN testing station, 'loaded'.
It is not necessary to remove any stuff from the camper (including water in tanks) unless the vehicle is exceeding one of the above three weights.
If it is over any of the three weights it is illegal and should not be on the road in the first place and it won't be tested.

Best advice is spend €10 and take it to a weighbridge and have the weights checked.

kelbal

niloc1951 wrote: »

Best advice is spend €10 and take it to a weighbridge and have the weights checked.

Or save yourself the €10 and the time, and just empty the water tank and take out any heavy items in your garage that would be contributing to weight:)

Animord

Oh well, it is out now and I am not struggling to put it back in in the rain. I will see what happens on Thursday, but I will ask them why they wanted them out and will take the document and show it to them.

I have access to a weighbridge so was going to fill the tanks and put all the stuff back in and weigh it at some point anyway.

Thanks for your help.

niloc1951

kelbal wrote: »

Or save yourself the €10 and the time, and just empty the water tank and take out any heavy items in your garage that would be contributing to weight:)

I think you missed the point.

The reason for knowing the actual gross weight in normal use is to know if the vehicle is being operated within its legal values.
There is little point in temporarily reducing the weight of a vehicle which is normally overloaded just to get it through its roadworthyness test and then chucking all the stuff back in afterwards and making it illegal again.

Remember there are fines and penalty points for operating an overloaded vehicle, not to mention any insurance cover may be invalidated in the event of an accident.

Tyres subjected to loads in excess of their rated value can also blow out with catastrophic results.

I can understand that due to a lack of enforcement in this country the operation of motorhomes in an overloaded condition is of little concern to many owners.
However, for very good reasons police in other European countries do often stop and weigh motorhomes.

So, the tenner could be the best one you ever spend

Animord

I am not worried about the weight - it got through a Portuguese test in Olhao, which is apparently notoriously strict, and it was fully laden. Everyone told me not to use this particular centre as they would fail you on the smallest thing, but the way I saw it, if I was going to drive it from Faro to Ireland then I wanted to be damn sure it was roadworthy. That was before several Irish winters though.

I must say I assumed the gas being out for was safety reasons rather than weight, but I will ask them on Thursday.

kelbal

niloc1951 wrote: »

I think you missed the point.

yeah, I get what you're saying, but personally I'd be more on for just being certain it will pass the test at first. I assume they give you the weight at the time tested - and then you can judge for yourself from that point where you stand, i.e you can do the sums for X amount of water, gas tank, table & chairs etc, to see what it would take to bring you over. If the unladen weight is legal but cutting it close, you have some thinking to do, but at least you have the cert for the time being and not the hassle of a failed test.

Animord

Well, the bad news is that it failed its DOE test but the good news is that it only failed on minor stuff - it passed all the important things, so I am happy with that. it is booked into the garage next Tuesday, so I could actually be legally on the road next week! Just sad that we are coming into winter now - I want to be off!

volvoman480

Just a quick question. I was looking at the photo above and I don't see a regulator in the line. Is the gas entering the van at full pressure from the cylinder? Do the appliances in the van have a regulator built in? I'm not being smart, just curious.

paddyp

volvoman480 wrote: »

Just a quick question. I was looking at the photo above and I don't see a regulator in the line. Is the gas entering the van at full pressure from the cylinder? Do the appliances in the van have a regulator built in? I'm not being smart, just curious.

Good point, wouldn't want a full pressure leak in the habitation area!

Animord

I haven't a clue! But I will have a look tomorrow.

revileandy

Just to hijack this thread seeing as it's loosely related to my query

Does anyone know a good shop in North Co Dublin that sells the small 6kg Grey Calor Cylinder & the regulator?

I've rang around a few shops and they all have the cylinder but no regulators.

Cheers

Animord

volvoman480 wrote: »

Just a quick question. I was looking at the photo above and I don't see a regulator in the line. Is the gas entering the van at full pressure from the cylinder? Do the appliances in the van have a regulator built in? I'm not being smart, just curious.

the regulator is there you just can't see it. I even double checked that it is a propane regulator, as the gas is propane and it is, so one less thing to think about.

volvoman480

Animord wrote: »

the regulator is there you just can't see it. I even double checked that it is a propane regulator, as the gas is propane and it is, so one less thing to think about.

That satisfies my curiosity, I knew there should be one there somewhere. Thanks.

holyhutzpa

revileandy wrote: »

Just to hijack this thread seeing as it's loosely related to my query

Does anyone know a good shop in North Co Dublin that sells the small 6kg Grey Calor Cylinder & the regulator?

I've rang around a few shops and they all have the cylinder but no regulators.

Cheers

Woodies sell regulators and gas bottles... I think you'll need a threaded end regulator for those bottles and it looks from the website that they have it

revileandy

revileandy wrote: »

Does anyone know a good shop in North Co Dublin that sells the small 6kg Grey Calor Cylinder & the regulator?

Acme Gas, Prussia St. Dublin 7. Small corner shop beside Tesco. Gas bottles out front.

revileandy

Nice one, went around the houses in swords - most didn't have the small 6kg cylinder. Eventually got the cylinder and regulator @ woodies sea town swords.

It actually uses a small 27mm clip on regulator

nailer8

From a DOE centre point of view.

We have no issue with a Gas cylinder inside the vehicle and i am not aware of any rule in the testing manual. It may have been some OTT Health and Safety policy where you went.
We also have no issue with the vehicle having a load/water on board.

We do however have a problem with Motorhomes coming in over their GVW. If the vehicle is over its GVW the brake machine simply wont test it so we have no choice but to send them home and ask them to come back with everything they can remove taken out of the vehicle.

---

On a personal note, i was wondering if you are stopped and weighed by the police in Europe is the vehicle weighed with or without it's passengers?
Also realistically what are the chances of being weighed?
If my camper was weighted with 4 people on board i don't think it would ever be under the GVW.
I weighed it before with no people, about the normal camping load and full water & Gas and it was 3540KG!!!!

Animord

How do I find out what the GVW should be? I can't see it on any papers I have.

nailer8

It's item F1 on your VLC but a lot of them arent filled in.
There will be a load plate somewhere on your van. Most likely in the cab area on a door pillar or possibly the seat base.
It should have the Chassis Number, GVW, GCW (total weight if towing a trailer) and a load rating for each axle.


Dont know about other makes but for merc it's as below:


1. Vehicle identification plate
2. Vehicle manufacturer
3. EU type approval number
4. Vehicle identification number (VIN)
5. Maximum permissible gross vehicle weight
6. Permissible towing weight
7. Maximum permissible front axle load
8. Maximum permissible rear axle load
9. Paint code

Animord

Thanks, it was under the front bonnet.

So it lists the following:-

The chassis number

Then is just says:-

3100 kg
4600 kg
1 - 1600 kg
2 - 1700 kg

I am presuming that 4600 must be its GVW. (it can hardly be the other two numbers) :pac:

So 4600 is the weight that this vehicle can safely carry?

Thanks for your patience!

nailer8

No your GVW is 3100kg
The figure of 4600kg is you maximum Gross Combination Weight i.e. the weight of your van plus a trailer.
1 = your front axle max weight
2 = your rear axle max weight

Animord

Oh.

So the actual weight of the vehicle now without anything in it should be less than 3.1, so I need to get its actual weight then.

Thanks for your help. It's a steep learning curve...

nailer8

No sorry i should have been clearer.

GVW = Gross vehicle weight.
i.e. the maximum the vehicle can ever weigh fully loaded.

The weight of the vehicle with noting in it is the Unladen weight (ULW) or Tare weight.
This has no bearing on your DOE test.
For HGV vehicles their tax is calculated from it and in the old days it effected camper VRT rates but that's changed now so it has no relevance on campers other than allowing you to figure out just how much stuff you can carry.

Animord

You were clear, that is what I understood, I just probably didn't write it out correctly. basically I need to weigh it to find out its actual weight to see how much under 3100 it is?

I will do that next week.

Thanks so much for your advice.

nailer8

No prob.
BTW asked the question re GVW.
It does include passengers.

Animord

So me, all my stuff, my wine and my wagon have to be less than 3100 :P

Immediate diet in order to increase wine capacity!