Brothers civil ceremony/reception venue is causing problems because of brothers death

cake1212

I wasn't sure what to call this thread.
I am in my early twenties and my brother is in his 30s.
A couple of years ago my brother came out to my family and everyone took it very well. Including my parents who took it very well. My dad a country farmer in his sixties really supports gay issues now. I will admit in the past he might have made the odd homophobic comment but that was in the past. He even phones up radio stations now supports gay issues and would give out to somebody if they made a homophobic comment.
So my parents took it very well when my brother came out as did the whole family.
I had a younger brother who went to college a few years ago. He was a very shy guy but funny when you got to know him. I know he was bullied a bit early on in secondary school but this changed as he progressed through the years and he became popular. When he went to college he was studying a course in the Hospitality Industry. In first year he got on well in his exams and worked well. He had to do a work placement at the end of first year and this is where the problem began. It was in a 5 star hotel in a city. He got this hotel because his results were good and the lectures liked him. He was excited at first because he liked the course and it was his first proper job.
We knew after a week or two he wasn't himself and he was gone was down in himself. He told his mam he was finding the work hard because the other staff was bullying him. She told him to tell the HRperson/manager. He did this and was basically told he was knew and he was a liar and the bullying continued.
Two issue happened then,
1. He was put with a staff member who was meant to show him how to do a particular task. The staff member told him he was meant to do a certain job. My brother did this and the manger gave out to him and put him on a warning. My brother explained that's what he was told to do and he wasn't believed. The staff member then just laughed in my brothers face.
2. He put up with a lot of bullying verbal/physical for weeks and what got him through it was he knew it was only for a few more weeks.
Then one day he was sent down to the basement with two female staff members to get linen they locked him in a store room in the dark and he was in there for nearly 16 hours without a phone and the basement wasn't used. When the manager found this out he gave out to my brother for missing his day of work and sacked him.

My brother had 10and half weeks of the 12 week placement done and the manger wouldn't sign he training book. This meant he couldn't go into second year and all the work he put in meant nothing.
My brother went home and told my mam and sister what happened. They said we'll try and sort something out.
A few days later and about 3 am.
He emailed the college apologising for letting them down and sent goodbye messages to the people he loved and then he killed himself.
He had no drugs or alcohol in his system at the time. The coroner even said this was unusual in the case of most suicides.

Our family was upset the way he was treated in the hotel as was people close to the family when they found out. We kept it pretty quite.
My parents didn't make a fuss of it but they wanted nothing to do with the hotel. My mams best friend would often meet her friend their for tea but she gave this up and my is sister would go their with her work friends and she wouldn't go their either. We don't have a grudge against the hotel tough.

My brother announced earlier this that him and his partner were engaged the news was took very well and my parent had a party in a restaurant for them. Everything was going very well. My mam was looking at dresses online and thinking what the day would be like. A relation said she would make the cake.
My brother went to a wedding fair and they booked the hotel that my brother was working at for his reception. He knew what happened their and he knew how the family felt about it. My parents took it badly when they said where they were getting married, My mam thought that they might have had a good reason for picking that venue and they just said that they just picked it at random because they couldn't make up their minds between that and two other hotels. My mam has gone of the wedding and doesn't want to go as do some relations who know the full story. My brother is keeps on posting on facebook that the whole family is homophobic and against him. I think my mothers main issue is she might encounter the people that bullied my brother.
Sorry for the long post.
Any advice?

ElleEm

Wow, OP, my heart goes out to you.
Has it been made clear to your brother that your (the family's) only issue with the wedding is the location? Had he been aware of the boycotting of the premises by your family? It seems so insensitive, that if he knew about your brother's suffering at the hands of some employees in that hotel, that he would choose that as the venue to have his most important day.
Let him be an asshole on FB, if he knows the real reason behind your unhappiness at the venue, then he is just creating drama within lies.

cake1212

He knows everything, that happened and how we felt.
He went to the wedding fair and he couldn't make up his mind between that and 3 other hotels and him and his partner put all the names into a hat and pulled out that hotel. I wouldn't even dream of picking the place to be honest.

DoozerT6

If what you say is true I would have sued the hotel for every penny they had. I find the fact that your family seem to bear the hotel management no ill will and just want to let the matter drop very strange, to be perfectly blunt. But it's not my business.

With regards to your brothers choice of venue - something is just not right here. If there was no other venue within 500 miles of my wedding, I would have the reception in my back yard before I would give them my business. I simply can't get my head around this, there has to be a reason why your brother chose this particular hotel - and the fact that it was even in the running to begin with!!! - as his venue.

Personally I wouldn't go, and let the begrudgers think whatever they want. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

cake1212

DoozerT6 wrote: »

If what you say is true I would have sued the hotel for every penny they had. I find the fact that your family seem to bear the hotel management no ill will and just want to let the matter drop very strange, to be perfectly blunt. But it's not my business.

With regards to your brothers choice of venue - something is just not right here. If there was no other venue within 500 miles of my wedding, I would have the reception in my back yard before I would give them my business. I simply can't get my head around this, there has to be a reason why your brother chose this particular hotel - and the fact that it was even in the running to begin with!!! - as his venue.

Personally I wouldn't go, and let the begrudgers think whatever they want. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

My parents didn't sue the hotel because they didn't think their was any point because it wouldn't bring my brother back and they had no proof.


My brother and his partner went to the wedding fair and since they have good jobs paying for a five star venue would be no bother. They really wanted a five star hotel in their area and there were four of them so they put all the names into a hat and picked one at random.
I would have knocked out the hotel in question to begin with

LegacyUser

I'm really sorry for your loss, that must have been very hard for you and your family.

I think your brother is being grossly unreasonable. It is entirely understandable that your family would not want to set foot inside the hotel. He needs to be sat down and have it explained clearly to him the reason your'e family are not happy. Posting nonsense up on facebook is a childish immature way of dealing with his issues. Speak frankly to him and explain the hurt his actions have caused. If he cannot see the sense and reason in what you have to say then I'm afraid all you can do is let him do things his way, but obviously explain that your family wouldn't be able to partake in his celebration. Best of luck op.

username123

I think that your brother is being totally insensitive and extremely selfish and childish. Posting on Facebook and trying to make it into a homophobic issue is just ridiculous.

I would sit him down calmly and explain to him that his choice of venue is something that is very upsetting to the whole family.

Actions have consequences and if he chooses to go ahead in this venue, then his family will choose not to attend. He may not like that but just as he is entitled to use that hotel, people are entitled not to go to an event in it.

Being totally honest I wouldnt make a huge hoo haa over it, Id simply state the case simply and clearly and then leave him off to make his own decision. You cant control how people behave and frankly, if your brother is so insensitive that he has to be told why that hotel is a problem, then I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to be celebrating with him anyway.

cake1212

Thanks for the advice guys!
We have told him the reason for not wanting to go their and he says its to late now because they have paid a large no refundable deposit. That's why they saying they shouldn't change.
Only certain people know what happened in full because my mam didn't make a big deal about what happened at the time because it's not what my brother would have wanted. The thing is the people who don't know what happened are giving my mam a hard time.

Oryx

Does your brothers partner know the issue with the hotel? Its the only reason I can think of for your brothers insensitivity, that he hasn't brought up the subject of the suicide with his partner for some reason and is now stuck defending his hotel choice because his partner does not know.

thefeatheredcat

I am completely and utterly shocked with your brother and his behaviour, like :eek:

He is making the issue of everyone not gong to the venue about him, which it isn't about at all.

In the shoes of your family I wouldn't give a penny to a hotel that has such horrible staff and terrible management of really disgusting treatment to your brother - it actually has my blood boiling reading what they did and how he was treated there - I definately would not be giving them my business.

I really don't understand why your brother doesn't have an issue with the hotel, I'd be horrified with the choice. In your brother's position on realising it was the same hotel, I would forgo the non refundable deposit and tell them why. It's not like they had their hearts set on the place and it's a case of total insensitivity and stubbornness (and not money / refund) and principle that's causing a rift in not changing the venue. I would see the deposit being non refundable as an excuse.

I agree with others, your brother is being incredibly childish about saying stuff on facebook and making an awful situation for your mother in getting grief from others.

I think the only way it is solvable is either your mother tells everyone what happened to your younger brother and everyone giving her a hard time makes their apologies, or your brother explains it, or he changes the venue.

It may be his day and his choice what venue he and his partner pick, but if I was there all I would be thinking about is how badly someone was treated and wouldn't be able to enjoy the day. And in your mother's position in that hotel she could be tempted to confront staff or be upset by meeting them / seeing them and end up ruining her son's day and feel guilty for that

I think it's disrespectful and in very bad taste on your brother's behalf to go ahead with it and quite cruel to let your mother and family be slated and assumed to others who don't know the full story that the reason is they are now suddenly homophobic. He is totally making this about him, when it's not about him at all.

LegacyUser

op i'm so sorry. reading that, my heart goes out to you and your family, it really does.

i don't really know what to say about your brother getting married there to be honest, my first thought was similar to oryx though, does his partner know the full story? is the deposit really worth causing you and your parents and your family members such anguish?

i'm afraid i just cannot put myself into the place of someone who would be so blatently selfish and insensitive as to do something like that, other than maybe he's saving face in some way and your younger brother's suicide is something he hasn't fully discussed with his fiancee.

as for people giving your mam a hard time, maybe you could have a word with them or something? people sometimes think parents of the people getting married have all the say in the details of the day, clearly not the case here so maybe they need to be reminded their displeasure is misdirected. if they have an issue with where your brother is getting married, getting your mam upset over it isn't helping the sitaution.

i hope it all works out op, and again, condolences on the loss of your brother. x

Stavro Mueller

Sweet Jeebus....I'm a mixture of shocked and angered as I type this. I'm so so sorry about what happened to your brother and utterly furious that those despicable people got away with it. I currently hate them more than anything else on earth. :mad: I know you can't name the hotel for obvious reasons but I hope it's not one I ever eat or stay in.

What gobsmacks me is that your parents never kicked up a fuss about it and effectively hushed it up. As a possible explanation, albeit a weak one, this might've played a part in your brother choosing it? Perhaps he's seeing the hotel as just a nice building to have his ceremony in, rather than a place possibly still staffed by the bullies who caused his brother to commit suicide.

dellas1979

That is really sad OP. It is his choice, but...

I would simply ask him (email even...give him time to think) take away the wedding venue, why does he feel the family are behaving homophobic/unsupportive towards him?

Also, if he thinks that the family are being homophobic/disrespectful toward him, ask him what he thinks his family/you feel towards holding the wedding in the place that holds so many bad memories, and what has he against the family?

cake1212

I wont name the hotel, but its a very well respected hotel in Ireland. When my brother got the placement in the hotel it was because he was one of the best in the class(im not just saying that) It's the kind of hotel that would look really good on your CV. When my brother found out about the pace he was happy.

My parents were upset when it happened but they are just not into suing people dragging it through the courts the courts. A lot of stuff happened their that I haven't mentioned and it was a very sensitive subject for my brother and something he wanted to be kept private.

I rang my brother about half and hour ago and made it clear to him why everybody is annoyed with the venue. He said that he visited the venue with his partner and the staff were friendly to them and it was recommended as a gay friendly wedding venue.

The thing is my mother really wants so go to my brothers ceremony but she doesn't want to go to that hotel and it's really upsetting her. We don't even know why he considered it in the first place but I don't think he thought and he just booked the place. They really wanted to have a wedding around Christmas and it would be hard to find another 5 star hotel now that be able to hold the wedding.

CaraMay

Did you tell him out straight how upset your mother is? You seem to be giving him a lot of leeway.

You have to protect your parent from this additional hurt and the first step is telling your selfish brother and his partner to cop on

cake1212

CaraMay wrote: »

Did you tell him out straight how upset your mother is? You seem to be giving him a lot of leeway.

You have to protect your parent from this additional hurt and the first step is telling your selfish brother and his partner to cop on

He's being told this from when he booked it but he kind of has the opinion that we should forget it and move on.
Whilst we can except that the past is the past it's hard to go to a place like this especially for a wedding. It's not like if we fee bad when we get their. We can just leave.
The day is fast approaching now but the invites haven't gone out yet so its not official but the deposit that has being paid is 5000euro which is a lot of money.
We want him to change venues but he says he wants to et this done before the year is out and its going to be hard to find a venue now around when they want to have the wedding. They do like the hotel now since they've being their a few times for bites and pieces.

tinkerbell

OP, this is completely screwed up IMO. Your brother was treated terribly by this hotel, he decides to end his life and your other brother decides that you all need to "get over it" and decides to book the same hotel that caused your brother's death for his wedding!!! That brother is completely out of line and tbh, if I were in your shoes, I would not attend his wedding nor would I have any further dealings with him unless he apologised and stopped this ridiculous nonsense. It is completely disrespecting you, your parents and your brother's memory by giving business to that rotten disgusting hotel.

I am so sorry for your brother's death, your parents must be absolutely heartbroken. You need to protect your parents, OP, from this mess. Support them and if they decide they cannot go, then be there with them and do not attend either. If other family question why, just explain to them. Nobody would be able to find fault with a decision not to attend, given your reasons why. Your brother sounds like a completely selfish muppet, he knew what he was doing when he booked the hotel. He just doesn't give a crap. So you show him the same respect he shows you (ie the LACK of respect) and don't give a crap about his wedding. Does his partner know why you are against this place?

CaraMay

God He is so selfish and this is coming from someone who has lost a sibling and seen my parents torture.... I do everything in my power to make their lives easier, not harder. I wouldn't go to the wedding and while 5k is a lot of money, if they can afford to pay it they can afford to lose it. He is just making up excuses.

He thinks ye need to move on??? Ask him if he chokes and dies at the wedding dinner if he would be happy for you to go there for Xmas the following year or have the next family wedding there?

My heart goes our to your parents. Make sure they know it's ok not to go and look after yourself and them.

Maybe he needs to see this thread.....???

SpaceTime

Are the couple aware of what happened??

Seems absolutely crazy to push ahead with it in that venue. It will turn what should be a celebration into a totally tense and horrible day.

A wedding is a celebration and despite what some groomzillas and bridezillas think, its about the people, not the place.

If there's a problem with the venue move it. Take 5k off the budget. It'll still be fun.

3DataModem

username123 wrote: »

I think that your brother is being totally insensitive.

This. I think that you and your family are being perfectly reasonable not to want to go to a hotel that is associated with your brother's death.

Stavro Mueller

He sounds like a male version of a bridezilla actually. One who's got gay blinkers on and might be on a wee bit of a crusade. He chose the hotel because it was gay friendly, he can't get married quickly enough, it's a fancy venue and he was quick enough to accuse the family of being homophobic. Has he always been this inconsiderate?

Does his partner know? I think the best thing to do at this stage is to sit your brother and his partner down with your immediate family and have a chat about it. Tell them that they wish them well and that they'd have loved to have gone to the ceremony. But that because of what happened with your other brother, they just can't face going. Do your parents know the names of the people who bullied your brother? That would make it especially horrible if that's the case.

JackieChan

I think the telling factor is not one person has tried to put up a viewpoint supporting your brothers decision. The reason being there is not one. It seems a very immature, selfish and I would say apathetic approach to chosing a venue. I cannot fathom how he would consider the venue and its almost like a kick in the teeth to say that you randomly chose it as they couldnt decide on a venue.
Personally I would not go and your brother should really consider the chasm this decision will open within the family. Linking what should be one of his happiest days with a venue that lead to one of his saddest.

LegacyUser

This is the OP, I set up the account last night and I cant remember my password.
Thanks for the advice,
My brothers partner does know about what happened to my brother at the hotel.
Its hard for my parents because they have already lost one son and they don't want to ignore/let down another one of their sons encase anything did happen to my brother in the future.
They have their heart set on this venue now and getting married before Christmas.

Santa Cruz

Your brother knew the situation with this hotel and still decided to book his function there. A pure selfish self centred fool who thinks it's all about him. You can pick your friends but not your family. I have read many posts here where people make comments like " I can't do this because after all he is my brother , sister etc."
Just because you came out of the same womb means you have to tolerate abuse, inconsideration and bad manners. Tell him to cop himself on. If a so called " deposit" is more important than his family feelings then leave him off.
As regards other people's comments to your mother maybe it's time to let them know the truth

Stavro Mueller

cake1212new wrote: »

This is the OP, I set up the account last night and I cant remember my password.
Thanks for the advice,
My brothers partner does know about what happened to my brother at the hotel.
Its hard for my parents because they have already lost one son and they don't want to ignore/let down another one of their sons encase anything did happen to my brother in the future.
They have their heart set on this venue now and getting married before Christmas.

That being the case, I don't know what else you can do. I do think it's vitally important that you let a wider circle of people know just why some of the family can't stomach going near the place. If your brother and his partner are determined to get married there, then that's their choice.

As someone else has said already, it's telling that not one person has said that choosing this venue is a good idea. If your brother still wants to bang on about his family being homophobic despite this, then it's a sorry reflection on the sort of person he is.

ivytwine

I think to be honest you've let them get away with it long enough. I understand your parents' reluctance to take legal action, however, what the staff in that place did was illegal. The locking of your brother in a basement for 16 hours was actually false imprisonment and would be looked on very harshly by the law. There was guy near me who was locked in a trailer for around three hours and the guys that did it received a sentence of around two or three months so that goes to show.

The fact that your brother will still hold his wedding there beggars belief. If he had any sort of family loyalty he wouldn't even have a cup of tea there not a mind one of the biggest days of his life. You're not overreacting. As someone else said, treat him with as little consideration as he did you.

Spell it out to people why you're not going. "We wish X the best, but that hotel was where our brother was working before he died. We believe that the conditions there directly contributed to his death. My parents just can't face going there." OK there maybe a few who don't believe you but let them off. People will always talk.

As for him spouting off on Facebook, to be honest that just makes him look bad. Personally, if I see anyone airing their dirty laundry on the internet my opinion of them just lowers automatically and I'm sure I'm not the only one. This guy may have money but he's got no class.

I am very sorry to hear of the death of your brother and I hope you and your parents get some solace soon x

LegacyUser

There's something about this that doesn't make sense OP. Could your brother really be that totally oblivious to how inappropriate it is to book that hotel?

Is there a possibility he's doing it purposely to rile people up/get attention/create drama?
I don't know your brother, maybe that's not like him. But it just seems incredibly odd to me that he'd do that, and it seems he's giving excuses as to why he can't book a different hotel (wants to get married in a 5star hotel, wants to get married at Christmas).
Either he's totally oblivious to other people's feelings, or there's an alterior motive at play.

SpaceTime

You'd also swear that there was just one gay-friendly wedding venue in Ireland. The reality is that there are umpteen and they're crying out for business too.

If the lads wanted to book a new venue, they could. Yeah it would be a bit awkward, but given the circumstances it's ridiculous and it will absolutely wreck their wedding day to go ahead with it in a venue with that kind of baggage!

Any event manager will tell you that sometimes venues have to be changed and it's not impossible. Things go wrong sometimes and stuff has to get changed. I really think people over-hype their 'perfect day'.

The reality of a wedding is that you'll remember the day because of the people who were there.

I got completely sick of listening to some of my friends and colleagues poncing on about minutia like chair covers as if they were the most important thing ever.

The very best weddings I've ever been at were really low budget ones where things just happened as they happened.
The worst I've been at was probably the most expensive too.

freshpopcorn

This is my opinion, what happened to your brother was awful and the treatment he received at the hotel was the cause of him killing himself.
You need to sit down with your brother and his partner and tell them that none of the family wants to go to the hotel because the staff their basically murdered your brother. Say to them if one of the staff members there shot your brother dead and they got away with it and they were still working in the hotel. Would he still want to go their.
Then you'd talk about the other venues in the area. I would recommend talking about good 4/5 star hotels because this is what they want and in the begging they had others of these in mind. Show them reviews off the net from these properties and encourage them to call around to them and have a look at them. Remind him also that his parents supported him when he came out.

emuhead

I'm so sorry about your brothers death. I can't really add to the advice you've got so far except to say your parents sound like lovely lovely people and deserve your support IMO.

TomeeTipee

Op, was there any kind of bad feeling between your two brothers before your younger brother died? Can't think of any possible reason why your brother is doing this, unless maybe he didn't get on with your brother or something? Still doesn't excuse his behaviour imo.