PICO PSU Questions

livEwirE

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but I'm having some problems with the HTPC. Sometimes it powers on fine and sometimes it does not. If I unplug the power brick from the mains then unplug the kettle lead on the power brick and plug it back in a couple of minutes later and try it again it works okay. The machines has been left on for a couple of hours and doesn't power off which is a good sign Can I assume something is wrong with the power brick?

Can you guys confirm that this 120w power brick is fine to use with a 150w psu or should I using a 150w power brick?

PSU: 150W DC-ATX Output, 12V Input DC-DC PC Power Supply Board

Power Brick: Genuine Channel Well Technology (CWT) 12V 10A, 120W AC adapter, High Quality

Mr McBoatface

Are you powering on from a cold start or standby/hibernation ? I'd a similar issue with an AMD E350 board when powering on from hibernation .... a bios update fix it.

That brick should be fine, I've a 90 watt brick on a 150 watt board (AMD e350 system) and a 120 watt brick on a 150 watt board (FM1 system) working with no issues

Unplug and reset all connections on the power broad and motherboard, see if that fixes the problem

tsue921i8wljb3

livEwirE wrote: »

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but I'm having some problems with the HTPC. Sometimes it powers on fine and sometimes it does not. If I unplug the power brick from the mains then unplug the kettle lead on the power brick and plug it back in a couple of minutes later and try it again it works okay. The machines has been left on for a couple of hours and doesn't power off which is a good sign Can I assume something is wrong with the power brick?

Can you guys confirm that this 120w power brick is fine to use with a 150w psu or should I using a 150w power brick?

PSU: 150W DC-ATX Output, 12V Input DC-DC PC Power Supply Board

Power Brick: Genuine Channel Well Technology (CWT) 12V 10A, 120W AC adapter, High Quality

I can't confirm if that power brick is of sufficient quality. I have this one:

http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12342

I got it with a 150W PicoPSU from LinITX. It's in a HP Microserver and I have had no issues with it. Delivery was £12 however so maybe it would be too expensive for you.

I just looked at the eBay listing for the PSU you are using. It seems very cheap. Are you sure it is up to the task? There is no point in buying an expensive power brick if the PSU is the problem.

livEwirE

@ jobyrne30 - I am powering on from cold. Will try your suggestion thanks.

@ navi - See post #9 on this thread. I'm confident the PSU should be up to the task.

tsue921i8wljb3

livEwirE wrote: »

@ jobyrne30 - I am powering on from cold. Will try your suggestion thanks.

@ navi - See post #9 on this thread. I'm confident the PSU should be up to the task.

I see now that jobyrne30 is using them without issue. I'm not familiar with the board so will leave you in his hands. Hope you get it sorted.

Technically your components are fine but I have no idea about the quality level of either. That's why most people use a known brand like PicoPSU, you know what you're getting.

Do you have a regular ATX power supply that you can use temporarily to confirm its not a problem with the mobo or power button on your case?

Mr McBoatface

The power brick is made by Channel Well Technology who are a high end, top quality PSU manufacture. Lots of high end PSU's like the Corsair HX-750 are made by them. The Power board is a good quality one too, variants of it are in lots of ITX cases, but like any thing components can fail or not be 100% compatible. Asrock itx boards can be hit and miss, the FM2A75-ITX revision 1 had a nasty habit of going up on fire :eek:

A problem with most DC-DC psu's with 12v inputs (including the pico psu) is they generally just pass through the 12v input from the power brick to the mother board, they just convert/regulate the 5 volt and 3.3 volt power inputs. So if there is an issue with the 12v power coming through the power brick, a slight variation outside of the working range of the motherboard the motherboard may fail to start. Bios updates can increase the tolerance of motherboard to 12v variations. Slight variation in hardware can be the difference between a worker and non-working system.

Hopefully re-sitting everything can sort the problem, I'd go as far as to remove the mother board to ensure it's not shorting on something like stand offs in the wrong place or even a screw. Testing with a regular psu is an excellent suggestion as it could rule out/in problems, but i'd re-sit everything first.

The joy's of building your own PC

Mr McBoatface

@livewire :- I just remembered a few months back I built a system with an ASROCK FM2A85X Extreme4-M, a micro-atx variant of your board. Anyway I had some issues just like you describe sometime it would boot fine other times it failed to boot. In my case the fans came on but there was no display....didn't have much time to spare so replaced the board with another I had, the Asus F2A85-M LE and everything worked fine.

A few week later I had some more time to spare and tested the board again, same results until I changed the ram...it worked fine. There was a bios update on the asrock website for improve ram compatibility ...updated the motherboard and rechecked with the original ram all was perfect.

I know you've a passive system so if the was similar issue you would find it hard to tell if the board had powered up at all.....no fans spinning, no noise. If you've a cpu fan could you hook it up to your board and see if it spins during one of the failed boots ?

If the fan does spin it would indicate that the PSU is working and the issue is elsewhere, a change of ram or a bios update might help. I know your sell lots of and might have a different brand available to test ? There is a bios update (bios version 1.2) for your board to improve compatibility with Samsung 4GB ram ..... it could improve compatibility for other ram modules with similar settings too.

livEwirE

@ I Kill You Scum! - I'll try to locate a spare atx power supply and try that.

@ jobyrne, I will not be able to test until tomorrow, Monday. I will check the BIOS update. I thought I checked already and I had the latest version but will double check Reseating everything, including the board is top priority! I actually thought the problem might be the power brick. The system is passively cooled but I have a cpu fan connected just for testing and it does spin on fine and stays on when the pc starts up. I'm currently using 2x4gb Samsung ddr3-1600 pc3-12800 but I can try some other ram.

Mr McBoatface

Hi Livewire,

If the fan is coming on during the failed boot attempts IMO that points to the ram. This board seem to have issues with Samsung DDR3 1600 4GB ram modules which are exactly what you are using. There has already been a bios update to "Improve Samsung 1600 4G memory module compatibility" but there still could be issues especially with dual channel support.

For trouble shooting just use one ram module. Let us know have you get on...

livEwirE

@ jobyrne30. I don't actually have that ASROCK systemboard. Apologies I never updated my original post, here are the components I got in the end:

MB: Gigabyte F2A85XN-WIFI Motherboard (Socket FM2, AMD A85X, DDR3, S-ATA 600, Mini ITX, PCI Express 2.0, Wi-Fi, USB 3.0, HDMI)
CPU: AMD APU A6 6400K Black Edition (Socket FM2, Dual Core, 3.9GHz, 1MB, 65W, AD640KOKHLBOX, Richland)
Case: Streamcom FC8 EVO Fanless Case
RAM: 8GB - 2x4gb Samsung DDR3 PC3-12800
HDD: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5 inch Basic SATA Solid State Drive
PSU: [URL="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-New-150W-DC-ATX-Output-12V-Input-DC-DC-PC-Power-Supply-Board-/111099435519?

pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item19de0ad9ff"]150W DC-ATX Output, 12V Input DC-DC PC Power Supply Board[/URL]
Power Brick: [URL="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Channel-Well-Technology-CWT-12V-10A-120W-AC-adapter-High-Quality-/321135344989?

ssPageName=STORE:HTMLBUILDER:SIMPLEITEM&refid=store"]Genuine Channel Well Technology (CWT) 12V 10A, 120W AC adapter[/URL]

Just to confirm, you are saying the fan comes on during the failed boots?

livEwirE

Yes, but only for a second or so. I press the power button, fan starts + the light on the PSU board flashes for a second and stops and then the fan stops. Right now the pc is powered on and this is exactly how I get around the problem. The machine was powered off for the weekend. I have it in the office as I have more time to look at it there. I came in this morning and pressed the power button and it wouldn't power on, fan started for a couple of seconds then went off. I removed the kettle lead from the power brick, put it back in and treid the power button again and it powered on fine. Is this just a case of the power brick being faulty?

Mr McBoatface

It could be a faulty brick or power board alright ...however it could something else too. Need to narrow it down a bit

Go along the lines of re-sitting everything, look for possible areas where there could be a short. Use one ram module for trouble shooting, if you've a DDR3 1333 module i'd use that. Then try swapping the power supply with another standard psu and see if the problem continues.

If you've a known good system you could try the powerboard and brick on that to see if you get problems there.

Genghiz Cohen

Had the same problem on my fullsize PC. Replacing the PSU fixed the issue.

livEwirE

This is getting frustrating but then I suppose that's all part of the challenge of a self build

This is what I've tried today...

Updated all drivers
Updated the BIOS to the latest Beta version
Reseated all hardware components including the motherboard.
I've also tried DDR3 1333 modules, same problem.

The machine powers on most of the time(90%). As I said before, to fix the problem I simply disconnect the kettle lead from the power brick, reconnect it and press the power button again and it works fine. I've tried multiple kettle leads on the brick. I thought maybe a loose connection in the brick was the cause. If that's all it is then I'd just send the brick back to the supplier.

livEwirE

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Had the same problem on my fullsize PC. Replacing the PSU fixed the issue.

Cheers for that mate, I think trying a standard ATX psu is my next option. I really don't want to have to replace this PSU as it was very difficult to find and took 2 months to arrive:rolleyes:


Here is the PC...

The DC power board should be raised on stand-offs, that's what the holes on either side are for. I don't know if that would cause your problem but you may cause a short with it just sitting on your chassis.

Mr McBoatface

Building can be frustrating alright - Just an observation, the power board appears to be sitting directly on the case. Is there the possibility the back of the board could be shorting against the case ? There are solder points at the back of the board, shorting them could cause the problem. Some heavy electric insulation tape should isolate them.

livEwirE

@ I Kill You Scum! - This is my first build so I'm still finding my way. I feel like a real dumbass right now, I didn't know the holes were for that. The board is actually raised slightly, I have blue tack lifting it up off the case, didn't know what else to do:o I'd imagine some plastic standoffs would do a better job alright. They may have come with the case, will need to check that tomorrow:o
If they weren't included any chance of a link to buy some please

@ jobyrne30 - Cheers for the pic! Will take your advice and insulate them thanks:eek:

livEwirE

I've got an atx psu from a desktop on the system today. Will see how that goes. If the pc is fine the issue must be with either the psu or the power brick. Problem is determining which one I definitely think I need to be using plastic standoffs with the mini psu! Anyone know where I can get them cheap please?

Mr McBoatface

I wouldn't say the standoff's are 100% required. In itx cases with little room you have to be creative:). In simular cases I've used self-adhesive foam tape on the back of these boards and cable ties to hold them in place.

Also looking at your photo again It looks like you are using an atx 24 pin power extendion cable.....this could cause problems too. Best to have the power board connected directly into the m/b

Yes it wasn't that stand-offs are literally required; you just need to make sure the back of the PCB isn't touching your chassis. And the board may need to be grounded via the stand-off holes, you'd need to look at it closely to see if they're isolated or not.

That type of board is typically intended to come with a case so standoffs would be manufactured into the case. Its not as suitable for using with any old case compared to the PicoPSU where everything is on the connector. But, as mentioned above you can make it work.

I would test it with the ATX PSU for now, it will at least help narrow down if the problem is related to power. Most PC troubleshooting is unfortunately just tedious process of elimination.

livEwirE

@ jobyrne30 - I'm using the atx extension cable as the atx connection on the board is in a tricky location under the heat pipes. Connecting directly to the board is definitely another option.

@ I Kill You Scum! - Thanks for that. I see what you're saying about the standoffs. they may not be needed if I can ensure the board is raised off the bottom of the case. I'll keep testing the atx psu with the extension cable for now. The problem has so far not reoccurred with the ATX PSU.

livEwirE

I've contacted the ebay seller of the power brick for a replacement. Hopefully that will sort it

Mr McBoatface

Hi Livewire,

Well at least it seem like the motherboard is a good, but I really think the extension cable could be a problem. It is adding a extra layer of wiring and resistance changing that doesn't need to be there. Wires and connectors aren't perfect conductors, they have resistance and there is the potential for voltage drop. I've seen drops in voltage when using molex extension cables with poor connectors are used, the same could be true for that atx power extension cable. I've built over 12 HTPC's with those exact power boards and power bricks ....never an issue.

The problem with passive cooling in an itx case like the ST-FC8 EVO is you can be limited to certain motherboard types/psu combo's. You wouldn't be able to use a picopsu with your motherboard because the heat pipes from the passive cooler would be in the way, the atx input is in the wrong position. In fact it's hard to come by a decent motherboard with atx connection in the "right place". The powerboards I use offer more flexibility on what motherboard can be used. Once you have the solder points isolated you can place them any where (space allowing). If it was me I would place the powerboard to the back of the case over the I/O plate and run the cable directly to the atx power point.

I've attached an image showing what I mean about the picopsu and atx inputs....this is why I don't use them.

EDIT - If you are not using the optional IR receiver you could hold the power board into position at the front of the case using one screw, the power cable should reach.

Genghiz Cohen

I don't know about looking for plastic standoffs. Just thinking about it and the board could be using the case like a car uses the chassis. As a ground connector. Plastic standoffs would prevent this where brass ones (the only ones I've ever seen) would allow it.

Complete speculation on my part.

livEwirE

@ jobyrne30, I've plugged the PSU directly into the motherboard atx connector but still seem to have the problem with intermittent power on failures. I've made sure the psu is not making contact with the case at all and the solder points at the back of the board are insulated with electrical tape. I've noticed the led on the power brick is very faint. When plugged into the pc in a powered off state it is the same as when its not plugged into the pc in a powered on state. When I actually power on the pc successfully the light on the brick remains the same dim. It never lights up. When plugging in the kettle lead into the brick I hear a buzzing/crackling sound lasting 1-2 seconds. I'm in the process of contacting the ebay seller of the brick. At least if I change it and have the same problem I can look into changing the PSU.

This is a longshot but if there is anyone reading this who could give me a loan of a suitable power brick just for 24 hours to test on this machine I'd really appreciate it and I could hook you up with some free hardware(RAM/hard disk etc.). I am based in Lucan in Dublin but would obviously collect.

livEwirE

Hi all, thanks for all you're help so far! Still need a little more help please

After the intermittent power on issues I've had, I decided to order a Mini-Box picoPSU-120-WI-25, world's tiniest 12-25V input DC-DC ATX power supply unit (PSU).

Unfortunately it didn't come with a 12V atx power connector. I am using a GA-F2A85XN-WIFI which has a 12v atx power connector. I thought I could get away with using this picopsu with the board but because I am not able to connect it to the 12v power connector it won't start up the pc at all. I checked the manual and it says...




The previous psu does have a 12v atx power connector and it will power up the pc but with intermittent power on problems. Here's what happens when I tried this picopsu with my machine. The fan starts up and stays on and the system is actually powered on but nothing appears on the screen. This is probably related to the APU not having enough power to display the output, exactly what is said in the manual

Can you guys confirm that I am right in my conclusion that the lack of 12v atx connector with the picopsu is causing my problem please and that I'll need to get one with a 12v atx connector? Can someone recommend one please? Is this the kind of one I should have gotten?

Lu Tze

livEwirE wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for all you're help so far! Still need a little more help please

After the intermittent power on issues I've had, I decided to order a Mini-Box picoPSU-120-WI-25, world's tiniest 12-25V input DC-DC ATX power supply unit (PSU).

Unfortunately it didn't come with a 12V atx power connector. I am using a GA-F2A85XN-WIFI which has a 12v atx power connector. I thought I could get away with using this picopsu with the board but because I am not able to connect it to the 12v power connector it won't start up the pc at all. I checked the manual and it says...




The previous psu does have a 12v atx power connector and it will power up the pc but with intermittent power on problems. Here's what happens when I tried this picopsu with my machine. The fan starts up and stays on and the system is actually powered on but nothing appears on the screen. This is probably related to the APU not having enough power to display the output, exactly what is said in the manual

Can you guys confirm that I am right in my conclusion that the lack of 12v atx connector with the picopsu is causing my problem please and that I'll need to get one with a 12v atx connector? Can someone recommend one please? Is this the kind of one I should have gotten?

Yeah thats unfortunate, especially seeing as it is mentioned in one of the two reviews on amazon

5.0 out of 5 stars Works Well with 15V External Supply 23 Aug 2013
By ColdWeatherMan - Published on Amazon.com
Amazon Verified Purchase
This is powering up

An Atom 330 server board
3 SSD drives
1 SATA drive
4 PATA drives
1 add-on modem adapter board
1 add-on PATA/SATA adapter
1 CD/DVD RW

External AC/DC adapter is 75W. There is no shortage of power even when all the electronics are in action. The power cord does not have the 4-pin processor supply connector. My board does not need one. Check your motherboard power needs before ordering.