1.2 TSI vs. 1.6TDI - cost of running

Mac89

Hi guys,

Apologies if this has already been asked before. I'm thinking of buying either the new VW Golf or Beetle and finding it hard to decide on which engine.

The 1.6 diesel is €2500 dearer than 1.2 petrol and I'm wondering is it worth the investment. I really want to keep running costs low. At present I do on average 10,000 km per year (6,500 miles).

I currently own a 05 VW Golf 1.4 petrol - love the car, very reliable but on my current mileage, I'm spending about €140 - €160 on petrol each month, which I think is too much tbh. Would you make the €2500 back on the diesel in savings on fuel and road tax vs 1.2 petrol ( considering I'd prob keep the car for 5 yrs)

Thanks for your help!!

ba_barabus

Are you driving to the shops and back covering most of those miles?

At your mileage I can see no benefit to driving a diesel. It would be petrol all the way for me.

corkgsxr

Go for petrol. That miles the diesel will clog itself up and give ya trouble

chud1234

you don't do enough miles to justify buying diesel on miles alone .
whats the tax difference between the 2 x 5
then there's resale or trading in after 5 years
but I think the simply answer is pertol

Spipov

€140 - €160 per month for 10k km?thats not bad. im spending that amount per fortnight for 10k km!!!! (2.2l)!

George Dalton

corkgsxr wrote: »

Go for petrol. That miles the diesel will clog itself up and give ya trouble

You can't say that for sure without knowing the type of mileage the car will be doing. The total annual mileage is only half the story. Doing 10,000km per year on main roads and motorways is absolutely fine for a diesel. Doing 10,000km of exclusively city driving isn't.

mullingar

+1.

If you do nothing but tip to the shops and a few local runs with the average speed below 60kph, petrol. No arguments.

If you do mostly longish (30kms+) motorway runs for 60%+ of that mileage, diesel

visual

Factor in depreciation and you be better of keeping your current car.

Lex Luthor

mullingar wrote: »

+1.

If you do nothing but tip to the shops and a few local runs with the average speed below 60kph, petrol. No arguments.

If you do mostly longish (30kms+) motorway runs for 60%+ of that mileage, diesel

+2

main reason why my wife is going back to a petrol from a diesel and is considering the 1.2TSi over the 1.6TDi Golf

corkgsxr

George Dalton wrote: »

You can't say that for sure without knowing the type of mileage the car will be doing. The total annual mileage is only half the story. Doing 10,000km per year on main roads and motorways is absolutely fine for a diesel. Doing 10,000km of exclusively city driving isn't.

True true.

Mac89

Thanks so much for all your posts!

The bulk of the mileage is commuting to work daily from suburbs to dublin city centre - it's 14km for a one way trip and tbh I don't get much of chance to go beyond 60km/ph - I'd be on the motorway the odd weekend but nothing major!

Tax difference = €70 more per year on the petrol so I guess it's not a huge amount.

My other concern was that such a small petrol engine would just feel wrong in such a bulky car but vw told me that both 1.2tsi and 1.6tdi have the same output (both 105BHP blue motion tech)

ba_barabus

Mac89 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your posts!

The bulk of the mileage is commuting to work daily from suburbs to dublin city centre - it's 14km for a one way trip and tbh I don't get much of chance to go beyond 60km/ph - I'd be on the motorway the odd weekend but nothing major!

Tax difference = €70 more per year on the petrol so I guess it's not a huge amount.

My other concern was that such a small petrol engine would just feel wrong in such a bulky car but vw told me that both 1.2tsi and 1.6tdi have the same output (both 105BHP blue motion tech)

Petrol all the way OP. Diesel will not perform economically under those conditions.

As for the petrol being underpowered, my mother has it in a Yeti which is bulkier and its a nice nippy engine that has no issues keeping up regardless of how small the engine is. Don't forget its turbo charged and comes with a 6 speed box. Its nice and light too. I can't say anything negative about it so far.

Stallingrad

Petrol 100%. One thing you have not taken into account is the petrol is so much more refined and suits the premium VW feel, you will appreciate that on every journey.

Spipov

petrol. although it might devalue more down the line, you'll have spent less on its upkeep during ownership and it should actually cost less in the long run

Idbatterim

Tell me the reason your changing car isnt to save a few euro a week on fuel?!

Mac89

Idbatterim [Tell me the reason your changing car isnt to save a few euro a week on fuel?!]

My quote function isn't working.... Anyway..


I've had my car for two years now, I actually bought it off a girl who was emigrating and in a hurry sell. I got such a good deal that I could probably still sell it now for more than I paid for it two years ago! It's in perfect condition but As its eight years old I'd likette try sell it now while I can still make a profit and put that towards a new car. Would consider getting a 2012 of either golf or beetle if it still was an up to date model

justsomebloke

Mac89 wrote: »

As its eight years old I'd likette try sell it now while I can still make a profit

Given how much you are going to lose in depreciation off the new car the above statement really doesn't make any sense

ba_barabus

justsomebloke wrote: »

Given how much you are going to lose in depreciation off the new car the above statement really doesn't make any sense

Sounds like OP reckons they've had two years free driving in the current car. I'd be happy with that.

murphyebass

Mac89 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your posts!

The bulk of the mileage is commuting to work daily from suburbs to dublin city centre - it's 14km for a one way trip and tbh I don't get much of chance to go beyond 60km/ph - I'd be on the motorway the odd weekend but nothing major!

Tax difference = €70 more per year on the petrol so I guess it's not a huge amount.

My other concern was that such a small petrol engine would just feel wrong in such a bulky car but vw told me that both 1.2tsi and 1.6tdi have the same output (both 105BHP blue motion tech)

Drove a 1.4tsi I think it was passat recently that a friend of mine bought and I have to say I was thinkin it'd be horrible to drive but the turbo kicks in pretty much straight away so it definately does not feel like a 1.4 I can tell ya. I was pleasantely surprised.

Personally I'd rather my petrol car to not be turbo due to potential turbo problems but thats just me.

I feel the problem with diesels is all the niggly problems you can encounter like your turbo, your egr valves, etc..

They can all add up and any savings made on fuel and tax are very quickly eliminated in one big bill.

Hence the reason I'm currently driving a 2ltr petrol Mazda 6 (albeit with squeky brakes see recent post) the car has given me no other problems for the past 2 years and I dont exactly treat it with love and attention.

I drive roughly 15k Km's a year mix of city and motorway and currently anyway would rather pay the bit more on fuel weekly and bit more annually on tax to not have to worry about these bigger issues.

I'm not saying I'll never own a diesel again but right now I'm happy with a ok sized petrol engine.

Idbatterim

fair enough if you want to change the car anyway, but dont change to "save money" because youll save a few quid a week on fuel and tax and lose multiples of that on depreciation and interest if applicable. I dont know if it applies to the the this particular car, but I know two mates who had smallish turbo charged petrol engines and they said they were shocking on fuel...

ba_barabus

Idbatterim wrote: »

fair enough if you want to change the car anyway, but dont change to "save money" because youll save a few quid a week on fuel and tax and lose multiples of that on depreciation and interest if applicable. I dont know if it applies to the the this particular car, but I know two mates who had smallish turbo charged petrol engines and they said they were shocking on fuel...

Just to pick up on that last point. The family Yeti is returning an average of 42mpg over mixed driving with no effort whatsoever.

It replaced a 1.6 Mondeo which never better 36mpg. I know the cars are different put just putting it out there. Thing is though with a saving if 2500 initially I think that's a good starting point economy wise.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

fair enough if you want to change the car anyway, but dont change to "save money" because youll save a few quid a week on fuel and tax and lose multiples of that on depreciation and interest if applicable. I dont know if it applies to the the this particular car, but I know two mates who had smallish turbo charged petrol engines and they said they were shocking on fuel...

Its not as simple as that imo, its very logical to me to want to save money on fuel and tax and spend it on a nicer, newer car rather than spend it fueling and taxing an older car.

Idbatterim

Its not as simple as that imo, its very logical to me to want to save money on fuel and tax and spend it on a nicer, newer car rather than spend it fuelling and taxing an older car.

bit of a contradiction there mate IMO. you either go for the nicer car or the newer / cheaper to run one, unless you dont have to compromise with the budget. Your telling me that just because a car is newer, that its nicer or better? you either get the better car or newer plate, bit of a simplification but its the truth... I can name any number of infinitely better cars, that will cost the same to run all in as the golf over say 3-4 years... bmw 6 series, 7 series, merc cls, merc s class amongst them, which are incomparable to a golf, polo etc, I dont care what age they are...

Its not as simple as that imo, its very logical to me to want to save money on fuel and tax and spend it on a nicer, newer car rather than spend it fueling and taxing an older car.

thats fine, but you prefer to lose far more in interest (if applicable) and depreciation...

green123

Mac89 wrote: »

I currently own a 05 VW Golf 1.4 petrol - love the car, very reliable

ba_barabus wrote: »

Sounds like OP reckons they've had two years free driving in the current car. I'd be happy with that.

sounds like the op would get another 2 years free driving out of it.

its madness to spend 20 grand on a new car to save a tenner a week on juice

ba_barabus

green123 wrote: »

its madness to spend 20 grand on a new car to save a tenner a week on juice

Maybe OP just wants a new car and needs a reason to justify it in their head.

Mac89

ba_barabus wrote: »

Maybe OP just wants a new car and needs a reason to justify it in their head.

I'd be getting a new car in the next year anyway .... I'm just asking for a bit of advice re: one engine type vs another on running costs & performance

ba_barabus

Mac89 wrote: »

I'd be getting a new car in the next year anyway .... I'm just asking for a bit of advice re: one engine type vs another on running costs & performance

And you're entirely right to ask. I think the TSI engine sounds like the perfect engine for you

visual

Mac89 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your posts!

The bulk of the mileage is commuting to work daily from suburbs to dublin city centre - it's 14km for a one way trip and tbh I don't get much of chance to go beyond 60km/ph - I'd be on the motorway the odd weekend but nothing major!

Tax difference = €70 more per year on the petrol so I guess it's not a huge amount.

My other concern was that such a small petrol engine would just feel wrong in such a bulky car but vw told me that both 1.2tsi and 1.6tdi have the same output (both 105BHP blue motion tech)

The engine tourqe is a better guide to power than bhp. And for everyday use you want the tourqe band to be in the rev range you typically use.

HandsomeDan

visual wrote: »

The engine tourqe is a better guide to power than bhp. And for everyday use you want the tourqe band to be in the rev range you typically use.

an the length of a house tells you more about the area than the... eh... area.

Leonard Hofstadter

Mac89 wrote: »

My other concern was that such a small petrol engine would just feel wrong in such a bulky car but vw told me that both 1.2tsi and 1.6tdi have the same output (both 105BHP blue motion tech)

You're driving a 1.4 petrol Golf, one of the slowest cars in the known universe, and you're worried about a car with 40% more power than yours being too underpowered:D?

It's the power output that is more important than the engine.

But get the petrol engine, it would be much better for your driving style. Petrol engines are much nicer than diesel engines to drive anyway, smoother, quieter and not afraid to be revved (unlike a diesel), and are far less likely to go wrong in town driving. If it wasn't for the fuel costs there wouldn't be a single reason to drive a diesel.

visual

HandsomeDan wrote: »

an the length of a house tells you more about the area than the... eh... area.

Guess you find it too difficult to understand and rather talk about 2x4 lol

lomb

Neither Id pick up a 4 year old golf or passat 2.0 140bhp diesel. Then you have the best of all worlds. Power and economy. The depreciation is very low also at this point . If it starts getting unreliable just sell it to a willing crowd. Sell it anyway after a year or two. Ive driven a new 1.6tdi and it was underwhelming although a smooth engine. The 2l diesel is just so much better.

Graham_B18C

Ha, bit harsh Nox!

lomb

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Ha, bit harsh Nox!

Indeed, but there is a point to new cars. Some people chop and change every 2 years as they want to drive something 'clean'. Many dont want to sit on seats sat on by other people picking their noses etc.
I dont really buy into any of that BS so I will be keeping my money for something better but you have to respect other peoples decisions as its their money.
An old CLS would be better by far than a new golf but its horses for courses.
New cars have a point in the UK where the deals on finance are exceptionally good with heavily discounted prices and financing ,if you have it then its viable. Here its a different thing.

Classic cars can sell for big money and in reality they are underpowered, unsafe , gas guzzling, badly driving rust buckets. And yes that applies to a 10 million ferrari or a 100 grand Aston down to an old Cortina. Change the setting and people are all over them.

vectra

That is more mileage than I do annually and never had a problem with a diesel

I drive a 2.0 vrs octavia.
Recently I had to have a loan car for a few weeks due to my old one being accident damaged.
One of the loan cars was a Skoda Roomster 1.2 (tsi ?)
I am certain it was a tsi.
I was absolutely shocked at the amount of petrol it used compared to my 2.0 diesel. I was only too happy to hand it back.

Go diesel, you wont regret it.

As you mentioned Golf, I assume that was the 1.6D ?
Why not price a Seat Leon 1.6D Basically the same car only cheaper.

Golf 1.6d = 24.5 for 3 door and 25.5 for 5 door.
Leon 1.6D = 21.3 for 3 door and 21.6 for 5 door

That is 3 grand saving.

Idbatterim

Indeed, but there is a point to new cars. Some people chop and change every 2 years as they want to drive something 'clean'. Many dont want to sit on seats sat on by other people picking their noses etc.
I dont really buy into any of that BS so I will be keeping my money for something better but you have to respect other peoples decisions as its their money.
An old CLS would be better by far than a new golf but its horses for courses.

agreed, I think it depends on what your definition of good is. A number on a number plate has nothing to do with how "good" a car is. I dont get reg snobs, who arent car snobs (thats not aimed at anyone in particular)!

ednwireland

i'm driving s 1.4 tsi golf at the moment (touch screen radio, stupid switch handbrake !) its getting around 46 -47 mpg (indicated ! it is a hire car )
on a mixture of motorway and town driving up in the north of england. the 1.6 Diesel is supposed to get . is supposed to get 20 odd mpg more the petrol should cost you around 500 + a year more on that calculation in fuel costs

so 4-5 years to pay the difference in terms of fuel consumption

Idbatterim

so 4-5 years to pay the difference in terms of fuel consumption

4-5 years if your not paying interest on the car. I'm not sure what the residuals on either car would be in say 4-5 years though...

Gumbo

Santiago Tight Chemist wrote: »

I'm not your fu*king mate, so don't refer to me as such!

It's ok mate, it's just an expression in conversation. I'm sure he is not trying to work his way into your social circle pal.

Idbatterim

It's ok mate, it's just an expression in conversation. I'm sure he is not trying to work his way into your social circle pal.

Foiled again! :rolleyes:

ba_barabus

kceire wrote: »

It's ok mate, it's just an expression in conversation. I'm sure he is not trying to work his way into your social circle pal.

Listen Pal if they don't wanna be mates they could at least be friends if you keep out of it buddy:P

spank_inferno

if the 1.2 is available with 105ps, I'd go for that.

good engine.... frugal enough if driven with care.

vectra

spank_inferno wrote: »

if the 1.2 is available with 105ps, I'd go for that.

good engine.... frugal enough if driven with care.

You see that is where I see the issue. You always have to drive with an egg under your right foot to get any sort of economy out of them, whereas with a diesel you can enjoy the drive.

bazz26

Is fuel consumption such a big priority for you OP given you are only driving 10k km per year? If I was only driving 10k km or less a year then I'd be looking a nice smooth petrol with decent poke for enjoyment.

MuppetCheck

1.4tsi? Same price as the diesel but given the light weight of the new Golf it would have a decent turn of speed.

Jesus.

captainspeed wrote: »

Petrol engines are much nicer than diesel engines to drive anywayl.

Its a very reasonable point but its also a matter of opinion

MuppetCheck

Jesus. wrote: »

Its a very reasonable point but its also a matter of opinion

Depends on the circumstance. Around town - petrol most definitely, down a national or motorway to work - diesel, ringing it's neck - petrol again. The diesel sound will grate on you after a while tbh.

Jesus.

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Depends on the circumstance. Around town - petrol most definitely, down a national or motorway to work - diesel, ringing it's neck - petrol again. The diesel sound will grate on you after a while tbh.

Spot on me auld flower!

corkgsxr

I wouldn't get a petrol in a fit if I didn't need a big van

Jesus.

corkgsxr wrote: »

I wouldn't get a petrol in a fit if I didn't need a big van

Have you got that the wrong way round mate?

corkgsxr

Jesus. wrote: »

Have you got that the wrong way round mate?

Its ok im drunk.

Have 8 drinks and it will make sense