Why never me? <mod warning page 3>

LegacyUser

I'm a late twenties guy and this year I've been making some big changes in my life. I have a good career being self employed and a good social life and the changes I've made to my attitude in life have been paying dividends in most ways. I'm pretty popular, I play sports and I have various interests and ambitions which draw my attention. I am an independent person.

However, one aspect of my life has always been a source of ongoing pain. Love and romance. It has completely evaded me in every respect. I won't spell out what little experience I have with the opposite sex but suffice to say that I would be highly surprised if I knew any able bodied and sound minded man my age that has had lesser success. I mean my history is practically non existent. I once admitted to a very close friend how little experience I've had and she thought I was winding her up. I've never been anyway close to being in a relationship or anything remotely close.

The fact is, women and my zero level of success with them are a mystery to me. I've taken lots of steps and tried lots of things to be proactive about finding someone but nothing has ever worked. From speed dating and online dating to sticking my neck out to ask that nice girl I like but nothing has ever worked. Ever. Not even close. It became such as source of loneliness and pain that I just gave up looking. Not pretend 'not looking', I gave up looking. Unsurprisingly, my plan worked, my life has been much the same as it had been but without the pain of failure with women.

So where's the problem? I've really just shifted the pain from one form to another. The pain of rejection, failure and inadequacy has given way to something else. I can't help but feel like there is a small part of me dying of loneliness. I have to admit feeling completely sorry for myself when I see couples holding hands or kissing and as much as I try to suppress it, that old feeling of wondering why that can't be for me. I don't have a stone for a heart. It hurts when I think back at the lonely teenager I was. Then the lonely twenty something I was. I feel my change of plan wasn't a bad choice but there is a new pain and a new fear of accepting that my thirties are probably going to be a continuation.

I have a choice. Do I continue as a voluntarily single person? Do I pick myself up and risk my pummelled heart again in the hope of finding someone special again only to end up lonely and heart broken again? Or do I take my abstention to the level of celibate asexuality I think fate seems to have always had in store for me? I just can't help but feel it's Hobson's choice. I don't need love to live my life but I just can't understand why I could never overcome this barrier. I know there is a bit of self pity here and this week has been a lonely week but I think that the certainty of solitude that has followed me does command the morose and melancholy. Thanks for reading.

dd972

listen to the lyrics of this Morrissey song, they make brutal sense

<Mod snip - banned under our charter>

I know it's an easy and trite thing to say but I've resigned myself to 'if it happens, it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't',

Est28

Like so many people.... they expect it to just happen.

Just because you go speed dating or sign up to an online dating site doesn't give you a god given right to find the greatest woman on earth.

How do you act? How do you talk to women?
When you speed-date... what happens? Do you both just go into boring interview mode, "Oh what do you do? What music do you like?" or do you say something different or exciting which every other guys hasn't asked which might make you stand out?

When you date online... what sort of pictures do you use? Do you use any mystery or funny in your profile? Something which will spark an interest to find out more? What are your messages and conversations like? What do you say?

When you "stick your neck out" and ask a girl out. What do you say to her? Do you just go up and ask her out... in which case... what reason has she to say yes? Or do you flirt with them? Challenge them? Make them laugh? Make them interested? And THEN ask them out?

How often do you approach girls in bars, or on the street or getting a coffee or wherever? I assume if you've taken a "lot of steps" you are approaching at least several new girls a day to get experience at least and see what your mistakes are or else you are doing FAR from "a lot".

Moomoo1

I think you should be optimistic and keep trying. Things will get easier, for a purely numerical reason: since in most couples the woman is younger, women in their 30's find it harder to find a partner than men whereas in the 20's it is perhaps the other way round. Also, your sound financial state will come into play as women are looking for people to settle down with.

Important thing is to keep your chin up, realise your own value to the opposite sex. And to remember that for every lonely man there is a lonely woman, who wants a relationship as much as you want one.

TheBellJar

OP I think the best thing is to leave yourself open to a possible relationship but not to spend every waking minute thinking about it either. You could be as proactive as hell and still never find someone you click with as unfortunately alot of it really is down to chance.

Est28

TheBellJar wrote: »

OP I think the best thing is to leave yourself open to a possible relationship but not to spend every waking minute thinking about it either. You could be as proactive as hell and still never find someone you click with as unfortunately alot of it really is down to chance.

Nothing is down to "chance".
Maybe he'll be a millionaire one day.
Maybe he'll marry a super-model on day.
Maybe he'll invent a cure to an incurable disease on day.

The OP and anyone else could well achieve anything they wish but nobody ever achieved any of these things sitting on their ass and just "letting it happen". So tired of this attitude in Ireland. Its always someone else's job to do something, or someone else's fault or some mythical power of the universe that makes things the way they are. So tired of it. It people were more proactive around here with more things, this board would hardly exist.

TheBellJar

Est28 wrote: »

Nothing is down to "chance".
Maybe he'll be a millionaire one day.
Maybe he'll marry a super-model on day.
Maybe he'll invent a cure to an incurable disease on day.

The OP and anyone else could well achieve anything they wish but nobody ever achieved any of these things sitting on their ass and just "letting it happen". So tired of this attitude in Ireland. Its always someone else's job to do something, or someone else's fault or some mythical power of the universe that makes things the way they are. So tired of it. It people were more proactive around here with more things, this board would hardly exist.

Hold your horses a minute.

Finding someone you have chemistry is very much down to chance. You could make all of the lists in the world of qualities you like and join all the clubs in the world to mix with those kind of people and you could very well meet a few who match exactly what you're looking for - but whether you'll 'click' is down to chance.

King Hearts

TheBellJar wrote: »

Hold your horses a minute.

Finding someone you have chemistry is very much down to chance. You could make all of the lists in the world of qualities you like and join all the clubs in the world to mix with those kind of people and you could very well meet a few who match exactly what you're looking for - but whether you'll 'click' is down to chance.

I don't think that's true, when you adopt the right attitude you find that you "click" with plenty of women. Just last weekend I "clicked" with 6 or 7 women. I used to never "click" with women. It was my own passive attitude betraying me. OP there is something that you are doing, not doing or your mindset that is causing this. You need to find out what that is.

Mr. Incognito

Everyone has a guy friend who is a hit with the ladies and wonder how he does it. The secret is confidence. Expect rejection and that's what you'll get

Find that mate of yours and have a chat with him

LegacyUser

King Hearts wrote: »

I don't think that's true, when you adopt the right attitude you find that you "click" with plenty of women. Just last weekend I "clicked" with 6 or 7 women. I used to never "click" with women. It was my own passive attitude betraying me. OP there is something that you are doing, not doing or your mindset that is causing this. You need to find out what that is.

I have to respectfully disagree with this, in fact this attitude is quite dangerous imho.

OP I'm 31 female and spent my entire life just like you, constantly being diappointerd by love and watching it happen for other people. Only in the last 6 months have I finally met someone where it actually seems to be going somewhere, he's completely different to anyone I've ever dated, that click is just there. I'd tried all the usual stuff approaching guys in bars/clubs being more proactive in general, online dating etc etc and with regards to the above poster it got to the point where I dated guys where they were so blatently not the right guys for me but I wanted love so much that I willed myself to click with them. There were guys who seemed like lovely guys and I fooled myself into thinking (or "adopted the right attitude" as the previous poster phrased it) that I "clicked" with these guys. These were perfectly lovely guys, so of course I kept up the pretence that "i'd clicked" with them but deep down all just felt a bit 'meh', and if you can take someone or leave them then that is not a true "click" in my opinion. And to keep deluding yourself that it is (like i did in all honesty) is dangerous, you're just settling. And people can sense that, in many cases I got dumped by these guys, I mean who wants to be someones second best (even if that person doesn't realise it themselves yet).

What changed for me? Absolutely nothing. I kept putting myself out there and getting my heart crushed. And then someone can along and we really just 'got' each other. IMHO there is absolutely nothing you can do to force that click, and it's either there or it's not, all down to chance if you will. It's just a numbers game OP as hard as it is you have to keep getting back up again and meeting women. It's the most frustrating thing in the world to hear that it's all down to luck, and you'll just know when you've met someone, but it really is.

And I know people will say be more confident, change aspects of your personality, yada yada yada but at the end of a day if you have to change who you are to attract a woman (or man) they are not falling for the real you, why would you want to have to project a fake personality every day to keep someone interested, that's not a relationship. As cliched as it sounds OP the only practical advice is be yourself and do not stop putting yourself out there and meeting as many women as you can. But whatever you do don't let it consume you, there really is only so much you can do to find someone, the rest unfortunately is a waiting game.

All the best OP

Xidu

femaleversion wrote: »

I have to respectfully disagree with this, in fact this attitude is quite dangerous imho.

OP I'm 31 female and spent my entire life just like you, constantly being diappointerd by love and watching it happen for other people. Only in the last 6 months have I finally met someone where it actually seems to be going somewhere, he's completely different to anyone I've ever dated, that click is just there. I'd tried all the usual stuff approaching guys in bars/clubs being more proactive in general, online dating etc etc and with regards to the above poster it got to the point where I dated guys where they were so blatently not the right guys for me but I wanted love so much that I willed myself to click with them. There were guys who seemed like lovely guys and I fooled myself into thinking (or "adopted the right attitude" as the previous poster phrased it) that I "clicked" with these guys. These were perfectly lovely guys, so of course I kept up the pretence that "i'd clicked" with them but deep down all just felt a bit 'meh', and if you can take someone or leave them then that is not a true "click" in my opinion. And to keep deluding yourself that it is (like i did in all honesty) is dangerous, you're just settling. And people can sense that, in many cases I got dumped by these guys, I mean who wants to be someones second best (even if that person doesn't realise it themselves yet).

What changed for me? Absolutely nothing. I kept putting myself out there and getting my heart crushed. And then someone can along and we really just 'got' each other. IMHO there is absolutely nothing you can do to force that click, and it's either there or it's not, all down to chance if you will. It's just a numbers game OP as hard as it is you have to keep getting back up again and meeting women. It's the most frustrating thing in the world to hear that it's all down to luck, and you'll just know when you've met someone, but it really is.

And I know people will say be more confident, change aspects of your personality, yada yada yada but at the end of a day if you have to change who you are to attract a woman (or man) they are not falling for the real you, why would you want to have to project a fake personality every day to keep someone interested, that's not a relationship. As cliched as it sounds OP the only practical advice is be yourself and do not stop putting yourself out there and meeting as many women as you can. But whatever you do don't let it consume you, there really is only so much you can do to find someone, the rest unfortunately is a waiting game.

All the best OP

Agree with every word you said. They say there are 4,000 people in the world could be very suitable for one person. It's the matter of when you will meet them.

Moomoo1

Est28 wrote: »

It people were more proactive around here with more things, this board would hardly exist.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Everyone has a guy friend who is a hit with the ladies and wonder how he does it. The secret is confidence. Expect rejection and that's what you'll get

Find that mate of yours and have a chat with him

confidence helps, but it is not everything

far from it.

if you like, it is a necessary condition, but far, far from a sufficient one

Est28

TheBellJar wrote: »

Hold your horses a minute.

Finding someone you have chemistry is very much down to chance. You could make all of the lists in the world of qualities you like and join all the clubs in the world to mix with those kind of people and you could very well meet a few who match exactly what you're looking for - but whether you'll 'click' is down to chance.

Thats totally wrong. I'm sorry, but it is!

Why do some guys seem to attract LOTS of girls and others NONE!?!?
Its because the former know how to flirt, how to have good conversation, how to banter, how to act around women and even guys in general. It's a little thing called social skills, also a little self belief and a desire to go after what they want out of life, be it relationships, career, interests or other persuits.

You HAVE to be proactive.

If it's just totally BLIND LUCK to meet a girlfriend for god sake... how would ANYONE?!?!!

If 2 guys walk down the street and 1 of them says hello to 10 girls and the other has his head down and walks by... which one of them is more likely to meet that one "by chance"?

If it's totally blind luck then both would have an equal 50/50 chance... but how is this possible? The 2nd guy never even looks at the girls yet the first guy actively tries to say hello and spark a conversation.

If you're not making strides in ANY area of life... how can it improve?

TheBellJar

Est28 wrote: »

Thats totally wrong. I'm sorry, but it is!

Why do some guys seem to attract LOTS of girls and others NONE!?!?
Its because the former know how to flirt, how to have good conversation, how to banter, how to act around women and even guys in general. It's a little thing called social skills, also a little self belief and a desire to go after what they want out of life, be it relationships, career, interests or other persuits.

You HAVE to be proactive.

If it's just totally BLIND LUCK to meet a girlfriend for god sake... how would ANYONE?!?!!

If 2 guys walk down the street and 1 of them says hello to 10 girls and the other has his head down and walks by... which one of them is more likely to meet that one "by chance"?

If it's totally blind luck then both would have an equal 50/50 chance... but how is this possible? The 2nd guy never even looks at the girls yet the first guy actively tries to say hello and spark a conversation.

If you're not making strides in ANY area of life... how can it improve?

I didn't say meeting someone you could date was blind luck. I said meeting someone you click with is down to chance, and it is. There is no rule book or guidelines to follow when it comes to chemistry between two people, if it's not there then it's not there and likewise sometimes it's there when you least expect it.

Moomoo1

Est28 wrote: »

If 2 guys walk down the street and 1 of them says hello to 10 girls and the other has his head down and walks by... which one of them is more likely to meet that one "by chance"?

but the guy who says hello might never get anywhere. That's the point. It takes a lot more than just plain confidence.

It's like anything in life. You need effort, perseverance, self-belief sure. But you also need talent, and being good at attracting the opposite sex requires the right sort of talent, just like playing the piano or proving theorems.

LegacyUser

Thats totally wrong. I'm sorry, but it is!

Why do some guys seem to attract LOTS of girls and others NONE!?!?
Its because the former know how to flirt, how to have good conversation, how to banter, how to act around women and even guys in general. It's a little thing called social skills, also a little self belief and a desire to go after what they want out of life, be it relationships, career, interests or other persuits.

it's called being charming, but just because a guy can charm the pants off someone, doesn't automatically mean he's forming lasting relationships with these women. It comes down to what you're looking for at the end of the day. Just looking for sex/fcuk buddy then abolutely the charmer is getting laid way more than the less charming guys. But if it's a proper relationship you're looking for I'd disagree that that charming guy is more likely to be in a healthy relationship. From personal observation, he may be in a relationship but in the vast majority of cases it's a relation of little longterm substance.

You HAVE to be proactive.

If it's just totally BLIND LUCK to meet a girlfriend for god sake... how would ANYONE?!?!!

You absolutely have to be proactive yes. I don't think anyone is saying that a girlfriend is going to appear in your life by sheer coincidence. Of course not. You absolutely have to make as many opportunities to meet women as you can but what people are saying is that once you meet these women the probablity that you will properly "click" with them is down to chance. It is that part of forming a relationship which is down to chance.

If 2 guys walk down the street and 1 of them says hello to 10 girls and the other has his head down and walks by... which one of them is more likely to meet that one "by chance"?

If it's totally blind luck then both would have an equal 50/50 chance... but how is this possible? The 2nd guy never even looks at the girls yet the first guy actively tries to say hello and spark a conversation.

Again yes you have to be proactive but by the same token, if the first guy says hello to 10 girls and the second guy says hello to 3 girls it doesn't automatically follow that guy 1 will click with any of these girls. Whereas guy 3 could get lucky and click with one of the girls, despite the fact he's spoken to 7 less women. Down to chance if you will. So yes absolutely if you're not making any effort to approach women it's not going to happen, but approaching women does not mean you're going to fall madly in love. You'll have more of an opportunity to fall in love, yes. The falling in love part though, that imho is down to chance.

DoozerT6

Est28 wrote: »

Why do some guys seem to attract LOTS of girls and others NONE!?!?

Assuming that the guy attracting lots of girls is looking for a partner, the fact that he is approaching LOTS of girls still means that he isn't finding THE ONE he has clicked with, that would make him want to stop his search. One doesn't necessarily follow the other.

I see your point that he's making the effort and to a point I agree with you, but it really is down to chemistry. Granted, the more people you meet the more chance of it happening, but at the same time you can't force it. I have met precisely ONE person in my life that I have 'clicked' with like that...and he was married I couldn't have him.

uncle_mick

Why never me wrote: »

I'm a late twenties guy and this year I've been making some big changes in my life. I have a good career being self employed and a good social life and the changes I've made to my attitude in life have been paying dividends in most ways. I'm pretty popular, I play sports and I have various interests and ambitions which draw my attention. I am an independent person.

However, one aspect of my life has always been a source of ongoing pain. Love and romance. It has completely evaded me in every respect. I won't spell out what little experience I have with the opposite sex but suffice to say that I would be highly surprised if I knew any able bodied and sound minded man my age that has had lesser success. I mean my history is practically non existent. I once admitted to a very close friend how little experience I've had and she thought I was winding her up. I've never been anyway close to being in a relationship or anything remotely close.

The fact is, women and my zero level of success with them are a mystery to me. I've taken lots of steps and tried lots of things to be proactive about finding someone but nothing has ever worked. From speed dating and online dating to sticking my neck out to ask that nice girl I like but nothing has ever worked. Ever. Not even close. It became such as source of loneliness and pain that I just gave up looking. Not pretend 'not looking', I gave up looking. Unsurprisingly, my plan worked, my life has been much the same as it had been but without the pain of failure with women.

So where's the problem? I've really just shifted the pain from one form to another. The pain of rejection, failure and inadequacy has given way to something else. I can't help but feel like there is a small part of me dying of loneliness. I have to admit feeling completely sorry for myself when I see couples holding hands or kissing and as much as I try to suppress it, that old feeling of wondering why that can't be for me. I don't have a stone for a heart. It hurts when I think back at the lonely teenager I was. Then the lonely twenty something I was. I feel my change of plan wasn't a bad choice but there is a new pain and a new fear of accepting that my thirties are probably going to be a continuation.

I have a choice. Do I continue as a voluntarily single person? Do I pick myself up and risk my pummelled heart again in the hope of finding someone special again only to end up lonely and heart broken again? Or do I take my abstention to the level of celibate asexuality I think fate seems to have always had in store for me? I just can't help but feel it's Hobson's choice. I don't need love to live my life but I just can't understand why I could never overcome this barrier. I know there is a bit of self pity here and this week has been a lonely week but I think that the certainty of solitude that has followed me does command the morose and melancholy. Thanks for reading.

im older than you and ive had about as much success with the opposite sex as yourself , they just don't give me a second look and while im below average in the looks department , im tall , not overweight and im also financially secure but none of this seems to make a difference

I guess some people are simply lacking in that bit of magic - spark which excites the opposite sex , you cant learn it

ive tried online dating , gone on dates but never got passed the first meeting , ladies always made some excuse as to why they couldn't - wouldn't meet me again , funny thing is I don't get nervous around women , I make jokes and come across as being pretty confident ( not cocky ) , I sometimes wonder if I make too many jokes however and fail to press the point that im attracted to the girl

I guess some people are simply lacking in that bit of magic - spark which excites the opposite sex , you cant learn it

Est28

DoozerT6 wrote: »

Assuming that the guy attracting lots of girls is looking for a partner, the fact that he is approaching LOTS of girls still means that he isn't finding THE ONE he has clicked with, that would make him want to stop his search. One doesn't necessarily follow the other.

I see your point that he's making the effort and to a point I agree with you, but it really is down to chemistry. Granted, the more people you meet the more chance of it happening, but at the same time you can't force it. I have met precisely ONE person in my life that I have 'clicked' with like that...and he was married I couldn't have him.

Zero percent of Zero is still Zero. Either you get out there and meet people and have a chance of finding "the one".... (which is also BS, there is more than "ONE" person in the world who you can click with or nobody would EVER settle down, your ONE would most likely be on the other side of the world)

At least if you are meeting more people then you'll click with more people, it's that simple. Who are you going to meet it you're not open to it or proactive?This all sounds like a Disney fairytale kinda thing, which life... is not.

King Hearts

TheBellJar wrote: »

I didn't say meeting someone you could date was blind luck. I said meeting someone you click with is down to chance, and it is. There is no rule book or guidelines to follow when it comes to chemistry between two people, if it's not there then it's not there and likewise sometimes it's there when you least expect it.

It's not chance, "clicking" with a girl is a skill you can learn.

OP, learn how to flirt and tease women. Learn how to take charge, women don't "click" nearly as much with passive men.

Notice the common qualities in the guys who are best with women, I bet they put their own fun first for example and don't try to impress women. When a woman sees you are trying to impress her she feels less respect for a man. Focus on enjoying yourself and having your own fun first. Everything you do and say should be for your own amusemt first. Be genuine, say things you actually think more often.

TheBellJar

King Hearts wrote: »

It's not chance, "clicking" with a girl is a skill you can learn.

OP, learn how to flirt and tease women. Learn how to take charge, women don't "click" nearly as much with passive men.

Notice the common qualities in the guys who are best with women, I bet they put their own fun first for example and don't try to impress women. When a woman sees you are trying to impress her she feels less respect for a man. Focus on enjoying yourself and having your own fun first. Everything you do and say should be for your own amusemt first. Be genuine, say things you actually think more often.

I'm a girl.

It is down to chance, you cannot create a 'click' and if you think you can then you've really been missing out.

claypigeon777

TheBellJar wrote: »

I'm a girl.

It is down to chance, you cannot create a 'click' and if you think you can then you've really been missing out.

The OP obviously needs help and just telling him to believe in "chance" is not going to cut it.
We live in a universe of cause and effect and his lack of success with the opposite sex obviously has causes.
Identify the causes, remedy them and his success with women will surely improve won't they?
If he were a business person who is struggling get customers and you were a business consultant wouldn't you sit him down, get him to lay out the nuts and bolts of his business and provide him with a solution.
If he needed therapy wouldn't you get him to talk about his problems, get him to talk about his life and help find him a solution?
The OP has spoken frankly about his lack of romantic success.
He is obviously doing something wrong isn't he?
There's obviously something he could stop doing or he cold start doing better to remedy it isn't there?

TheBellJar

claypigeon777 wrote: »

The OP obviously needs help and just telling him to believe in "chance" is not going to cut it.
We live in a universe of cause and effect and his lack of success with the opposite sex obviously has causes.
Identify the causes, remedy them and his success with women will surely improve won't they?
If he were a business person who is struggling get customers and you were a business consultant wouldn't you sit him down, get him to lay out the nuts and bolts of his business and provide him with a solution.
If he needed therapy wouldn't you get him to talk about his problems, get him to talk about his life and help find him a solution?
The OP has spoken frankly about his lack of romantic success.
He is obviously doing something wrong isn't he?
There's obviously something he could stop doing or he cold start doing better to remedy it isn't there?

He is not obviously doing something wrong. The fact that he hasn't yet met someone who he has chemistry with does not mean that there is something wrong with him or that he is doing something wrong and that's a terribly irresponsible thing to say.

King Hearts

TheBellJar wrote: »

I'm a girl.

It is down to chance, you cannot create a 'click' and if you think you can then you've really been missing out.

You can have a mindset where this so called click is much more likely to happen. I'm not saying you can make it happen anytime you want. I used to struggle to attract women, after I made adjustments to my mindset and behaviours I began attracting countless women. It was my own attitude that was the problem, it was my fault, not "chance" or bad luck. If I go out now I'm nearly certain I'll have a great connection with a woman if that's what I want.

TheBellJar

King Hearts wrote: »

You can have a mindset where this so called click is much more likely to happen. I'm not saying you can make it happen anytime you want. I used to struggle to attract women, after I made adjustments to my mindset and behaviours I began attracting countless women. It was my own attitude that was the problem, it was my fault, not "chance" or bad luck. If I go out now I'm nearly certain I'll have a great connection with a woman if that's what I want.

You can make yourself more open to meeting people and in turn meet more people. However there is no way of 'ensuring' that you click with one of these people. There just isn't and that connection you're talking about will be one sided unless the woman happens to feel the same, i.e. chance.

King Hearts

TheBellJar wrote: »

He is not obviously doing something wrong. The fact that he hasn't yet met someone who he has chemistry with does not mean that there is something wrong with him or that he is doing something wrong and that's a terribly irresponsible thing to say.

There's nothing wrong with him, but he is doing something wrong.

TheBellJar

King Hearts wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with him, but he is doing something wrong.

You don't know that. He could be doing everything right and still not find someone he really clicks with.

I have a number of male friends who, on paper, would be ideal partners. They're attractive and appealing personality wise also - but there is just no chemistry so we have never dated. There is nothing they or I could do 'right' to change that as neither of us are doing anything wrong.

claypigeon777

TheBellJar wrote: »

He is not obviously doing something wrong.

The OP obviously is if his efforts are not working.

He needs to reexamine what he usually does when he tries and fails to be romantic with the opposite sex and change it and do something that works.

I would suggest he gets talking to men he knows who are more successful and ask them what he could do to improve himself.

The fact that he hasn't yet met someone who he has chemistry with does not mean that there is something wrong with him or that he is doing something wrong and that's a terribly irresponsible thing to say.

No it is not irresponsible.

The OP has come onto boards seeking advice and help. He is lonely unhappy and missing out on life.

If someone was not making friends or was failing to meet company targets etc etc. obviously someone would have to intervene to identify their weak points and strong points and guide them along until they could do it properly.

Maybe he needs to go out with a group of male friends and imitate what they do when they approach women and ask for them to whisper in his ear or whatever when he is doing something wrong.

TheBellJar

claypigeon777 wrote: »

The OP obviously is if his efforts are not working.

He needs to reexamine what he usually does when he tries and fails to be romantic with the opposite sex and change it and do something that works.



No it is not irresponsible.

The OP has come onto boards seeking advice and help.

If someone was not making friends or was failing to meet company targets etc etc. obviously someone would have to intervene to identify their weak points and strong points and guide them along until they could do it properly.

The only thing I can determine from some of these posts is that the posters concerned have never actually experienced a real click or true chemistry with someone, because if you did you'd know that it's not something someone can influence. Yes, you can make yourself more attractive to the opposite sex but the OP has said he has been trying to do that and has still not met someone, so ultimately it's down to the extra factor here which is chemistry between two people, which cannot be created or manipulated.

claypigeon777

TheBellJar wrote: »

The only thing I can determine from some of these posts is that the posters concerned have never actually experienced a real click or true chemistry with someone, because if you did you'd know that it's not something someone can influence.

I've met many women who were initially cold unfriendly and openly hostile but I broke the ice, they opened up, we had a warm conversation, we went on dates and had some romantic time together. I learned how to be romantic with women over a long period of time in which I learned what does work and what does not.

If the OP is on the bus, sitting in a cafe having a coffee and sandwich, taking a stroll in the park on a sunny day or exercising in the gym or whatever he does, he has opportunities to talk to women all around him.
You make friends or start romantic situation by breaking the ice. Many people will be wary if a stranger starts a conversation but if you have the skill to put people at ease you are half way there. People want to meet new friends or exciting new lovers and you can create friendly or romantic chemistry.
I think that is where the OP is sorely lacking and he needs to learn how to flirt and be romantic.

Yes, you can make yourself more attractive to the opposite sex but the OP has said he has been trying to do that and has still not met someone, so ultimately it's down to the extra factor here which is chemistry between two people, which cannot be created or manipulated.

People are malleable.
How do people switch banks or insurance companies or even religions?
They are persuadable.
Romance is about persuading someone you are worth their time.
You obviously cannot persuade everyone and nobody is saying that.
But you can get better at persuading more people.
The OP has not had success because he is blundering about without any strategy.
You can't learn any skill in life without someone to help you out.
Romance isn't some mysterious magical thing.

Human behavior can be studied and mapped.
For training purposes calls to customers are recorded so that team leaders can assess how their teams are performing and team leaders can break down blow by blow what the team members are doing right and what they doing wrong and what they can do better.

The OP needs someone to take him by the hand and do the same with him.

TheBellJar

We may agree to disagree!

Corcaigh84

I'm going to have to agree with the ladies on this one. I (male) have been pulling women and getting dates at a feroicous rate this year, but nothing has 'clicked' so far.

Believe me, I tried pretending I like some girls more than I really did in my early twenties, and it's just bad times for all involved. Right now I'm just enjoying things, it's better than the constant doom and gloom, self fullfilling prophecy that I'll never meet Mrs. Right.

King Hearts

TheBellJar wrote: »

You can make yourself more open to meeting people and in turn meet more people. However there is no way of 'ensuring' that you click with one of these people. There just isn't and that connection you're talking about will be one sided unless the woman happens to feel the same, i.e. chance.

Chance is an element of course, but if you learn to be confident and how to talk to and flirt with women properly you can "click" with a much higher percentage of women you approach.

OP success with women is a skill set, much like many other skills it takes time and continuous practice to see big changes. The best thing you can do is talk to as many women as possible. Give yourself little goals, such as moving women after talking to them a while. Women respond to men who lead. Grab her hand look her in the eyes and say let's go over here ( other side of bar or wherever). Keep pushing your comfort zone and ask women out. Over time you'll develop a natural ability to talk and flirt with women.

TheBellJar

King Hearts wrote: »

Chance is an element of course, but if you learn to be confident and how to talk to and flirt with women properly you can "click" with a much higher percentage of women you approach.

OP success with women is a skill set, much like many other skills it takes time and continuous practice to see big changes. The best thing you can do is talk to as many women as possible. Give yourself little goals, such as moving women after talking to them a while. Women respond to men who lead. Grab her hand look her in the eyes and say let's go over here ( other side of bar or wherever). Keep pushing your comfort zone and ask women out. Over time you'll develop a natural ability to talk and flirt with women.

I don't think we're on the same wavelength. A mutual 'click' with someone is very different to just picking someone up in a bar.

Talking to more women does increase your chances of finding someone to date in general, but there is nothing you can actually do to how you behave or act in order to increase the chance of clicking with someone. It doesn't work like that. You do or you don't. You can't fake it.

Corcaigh84

King Hearts wrote: »

OP success with women is a skill set

Granted, yes, you have to pull a few women before you can click with any of them!

King Hearts

TheBellJar wrote: »

I don't think we're on the same wavelength. A mutual 'click' with someone is very different to just picking someone up in a bar.

Talking to more women does increase your chances of finding someone to date in general, but there is nothing you can actually do to how you behave or act in order to increase the chance of clicking with someone. It doesn't work like that. You do or you don't. You can't fake it.

Yes there is something you am do to increase the chance to click with someone. For a start many of us wear a "social mask", often this is not in alignment with who you really are. It is very hard to click with people as they can sense something isn't quite right or unauthentic. When your persona is closely aligned to your genuine self that creates much more potential for a genuine connection. There are indeed numerous things you can do to increase the chance of clicking. Learn how to touch a woman, body language, flirting, rapport conversation.

A study was done where people where asked to hold a cold or hot drink. Those who held the hot drink liked the person more than those who held the cold drink. What I'm saying is people click for very specific reasons, it's not magic. Just because you don't know the reason of clicking doesn't mean there isn't one or it can't be changed through conscious decisions.

TheBellJar

King Hearts wrote: »

Yes there is something you am do to increase the chance to click with someone. For a start many of us wear a "social mask", often this is not in alignment with who you really are. It is very hard to click with people as they can sense something isn't quite right or unauthentic. When your persona is closely aligned to your genuine self that creates much more potential for a genuine connection. There are indeed numerous things you can do to increase the chance of clicking. Learn how to touch a woman, body language, flirting, rapport conversation.

A study was done where people where asked to hold a cold or hot drink. Those who held the hot drink liked the person more than those who held the cold drink. What I'm saying is people click for very specific reasons, it's not magic. Just because you don't know the reason of clicking doesn't mean there isn't one or it can't be changed through conscious decisions.

This jist of this is - you're wrong.

But this is becoming a pointless argument so I'll leave you to it

Best of luck with things OP.

King Hearts

TheBellJar wrote: »

This jist of this is - you're wrong.

But this is becoming a pointless argument so I'll leave you to it

Best of luck with things OP.

OP for your own good don't listen to people who think that destiny isn't in your own hands. Learn from men who are good with women, it's not luck, you can make changes to improve your life. All the best.

claypigeon777

thefloss wrote: »

Right now I'm just enjoying things, it's better than the constant doom and gloom, self fullfilling prophecy that I'll never meet Mrs. Right.

That's the mindset the OP needs.

Stop giving a flying f*ck. Approach without fear. Have fun chatting up women and experiment with works and what doesn't.

Taltos

All - let's keep the petty disagreements out of the threads here. If you are unsure what is acceptable in PI please have a look at our charter, this is not a discussion forum and posters who insist on ignoring the rules here can find themselves banned in certain circumstances.

Thanks
Taltos

uncle_mick

Why never me wrote: »

I'm a late twenties guy and this year I've been making some big changes in my life. I have a good career being self employed and a good social life and the changes I've made to my attitude in life have been paying dividends in most ways. I'm pretty popular, I play sports and I have various interests and ambitions which draw my attention. I am an independent person.

However, one aspect of my life has always been a source of ongoing pain. Love and romance. It has completely evaded me in every respect. I won't spell out what little experience I have with the opposite sex but suffice to say that I would be highly surprised if I knew any able bodied and sound minded man my age that has had lesser success. I mean my history is practically non existent. I once admitted to a very close friend how little experience I've had and she thought I was winding her up. I've never been anyway close to being in a relationship or anything remotely close.

The fact is, women and my zero level of success with them are a mystery to me. I've taken lots of steps and tried lots of things to be proactive about finding someone but nothing has ever worked. From speed dating and online dating to sticking my neck out to ask that nice girl I like but nothing has ever worked. Ever. Not even close. It became such as source of loneliness and pain that I just gave up looking. Not pretend 'not looking', I gave up looking. Unsurprisingly, my plan worked, my life has been much the same as it had been but without the pain of failure with women.

So where's the problem? I've really just shifted the pain from one form to another. The pain of rejection, failure and inadequacy has given way to something else. I can't help but feel like there is a small part of me dying of loneliness. I have to admit feeling completely sorry for myself when I see couples holding hands or kissing and as much as I try to suppress it, that old feeling of wondering why that can't be for me. I don't have a stone for a heart. It hurts when I think back at the lonely teenager I was. Then the lonely twenty something I was. I feel my change of plan wasn't a bad choice but there is a new pain and a new fear of accepting that my thirties are probably going to be a continuation.

I have a choice. Do I continue as a voluntarily single person? Do I pick myself up and risk my pummelled heart again in the hope of finding someone special again only to end up lonely and heart broken again? Or do I take my abstention to the level of celibate asexuality I think fate seems to have always had in store for me? I just can't help but feel it's Hobson's choice. I don't need love to live my life but I just can't understand why I could never overcome this barrier. I know there is a bit of self pity here and this week has been a lonely week but I think that the certainty of solitude that has followed me does command the morose and melancholy. Thanks for reading.

do you live in an urban or rural Ireland ?

one thing ive discovered since I passed thirty is that their are no single women in rural Ireland , none , not really a surprise , their is a huge ratio of men to women in rural Ireland , all the women are working in the cities

LegacyUser

Thanks for your thoughts. The thing is, you're all right. I have been reflecting on things since I started the thread and these are some of my thoughts.

I haven't been making an effort and although the hope of finding someone has naturally evaporated. If I made more of an effort, I would stand a higher chance of meeting someone. That's true. However, with my back story, motivating myself to find someone special after the failures I've experienced seems about as easy as motivating myself to resume my attempts to levitate. I'm not saying I have definitely given up looking but I just think that preserving my mental and emotional health is something I need to consider. I have to be realistic about MY situation- it may be less painful to draw a line under my attempts and focus on other aspects of my life. The thought of doing this makes my teeth itch but not everyone finds someone to share life. The evidence says I'm probably one of these people- do I want to spend the next decade of my short life wishing for, what evidently may never be? Also, consider that I may give up looking and it just may happen anyway. So what's the healthy thing to do? My situation reminds me of this quote- 'It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand'. This is why I'm increasingly reluctant to take any steps at all.

Maybe my friendship history is a metaphor for my relationship history. I don't have lots and lots of friends but the ones I have more close ones than most people. I don't have casual or shallow relationships with people. Likewise, as one poster suggested, just sitting back and enjoying the dating scene is something I would enjoy on some levels but realistically, for ME, it wouldn't be fulfilling for me. When it comes to all my relationship, it's quality and not quantity I want.

As regards "clicking" with women, I do meet women that I click with. Fairly regularly too. I don't believe in the idea of 'the one'. The ladies I meet that I click with are just with other guys or aren't interested in me. Simple as that. The numbers have always been against me. That's half the problem. I meet women I like (and they're not necessarily supermodels), and they're somehow unattainable. I know I could train myself to have more hits. I accept that but in all honesty, hits aren't what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for something unique, I just want something more.

So I apologise if this is just another ramble. I do appreciate your thoughts and perspectives.

claypigeon777

Why never me wrote: »

I haven't been making an effort and although the hope of finding someone has naturally evaporated.

Women love a man who is gregarious, fun loving, enjoys his own company and who already has a full life before he even gets together with someone special.

If I made more of an effort, I would stand a higher chance of meeting someone.

There's no other way. It shouldn't be a chore. It should be an exciting adventure.

However, with my back story, motivating myself to find someone special after the failures I've experienced seems about as easy as motivating myself to resume my attempts to levitate.

There isn't an invisible bureaucrat with a clipboard ticking off a sheet every time you blunder into a woman and try to chat her up and it doesn't come off. It's all up to you and the effort you make, the mistakes you make and what you learn from them and how you use experience to do better when you meet the next lady. Eventually you will develop the skill sets to comfortably approach and flirt any women. You will have your choice and then you will have the freedom to pick and choose and select the woman you know is the one for you.

I'm not saying I have definitely given up looking but I just think that preserving my mental and emotional health is something I need to consider.

You are lonely and miserable right now. You're mental and emotional health is as low as the earth's core never mind the basement. This cry for help on boards has got you attention and advice. This is what you were looking for and now it is up to you to use it. So man up, forget all that tears and loneliness and crap and start with a clean sheet and go out there and make a stab. Why not go into a clothes shop and get yourself some stylish shirts, jeans, suits and so on and dump your old clothes, get a new hair style, get tatoo or an ear piercing or whatever you want. Take up jungling or learn how to walk on your hands or something mad like that or go on a holiday to some place you always wanted to.:)

I have to be realistic about MY situation- it may be less painful to draw a line under my attempts and focus on other aspects of my life. The thought of doing this makes my teeth itch but not everyone finds someone to share life.

That's giving up. That's feeling sorry for yourself and being the poor me victim. That's not attractive to women. That's what's scaring women away. Women don't want to be your replacement mammy. They want a man and they want a lover and fighter.

The evidence says I'm probably one of these people- do I want to spend the next decade of my short life wishing for, what evidently may never be?

It will never be if you give up before you have done anything proactive to realize that dream.
You are giving up at the first hurdle.
You are a sensitive intelligent man who wants to love other people, who hungers and thirsts for happiness.
You have a lot going for you.

Also, consider that I may give up looking and it just may happen anyway. So what's the healthy thing to do? My situation reminds me of this quote- 'It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand'. This is why I'm increasingly reluctant to take any steps at all.

You have a choice between despair and hope.
Despair perversely enough can become addictive and you have been drinking bottles of despair for do long friendo.
Choose hope.
You have to fight this negative crap.

Go to your GP ask where you can get counselling and when you get an appointment make full use of it and unload and have a cry.
No shame in that.
You don't have to tell friends or family about it.
It will all be confidential.

Maybe my friendship history is a metaphor for my relationship history. I don't have lots and lots of friends but the ones I have more close ones than most people.

That's more than most people. So tell your close friends about your troubles and see if they can help you out.

I don't have casual or shallow relationships with people. Likewise, as one poster suggested, just sitting back and enjoying the dating scene is something I would enjoy on some levels but realistically, for ME, it wouldn't be fulfilling for me. When it comes to all my relationship, it's quality and not quantity I want.

You are putting sex and relationships on a pedestal. Before you will have a clue what you really really want you have to go out there and make mistakes.
Relax have fun with women go to cultural events, eat out, go to concerts, think of unusual dates you can plan and take a woman you just met. Put no pressure on women you meet and date and have a laugh and you will eventually have experience and you will know properly how to have a relationship that can become serious when the right one comes along.

As regards "clicking" with women, I do meet women that I click with. Fairly regularly too. I don't believe in the idea of 'the one'. The ladies I meet that I click with are just with other guys or aren't interested in me. Simple as that.

Well most attractive women are not single - they all have boyfriends of some sort and they have alternatives to choose from if their current boyfriend is not up to scratch. You have to make yourself a better option in her eyes so that she drops her casual f*ck buddies and decides to have a serious relationship with you.

The numbers have always been against me. That's half the problem. I meet women I like (and they're not necessarily supermodels), and they're somehow unattainable.

What is unobtainable about them? If you behave cool, smooth, confident, dress well, work out more, arm yourself with jokes and you have interesting anecdotes about television shows, movies, books, history, theatre, poetry, you learn how to cooks etc. you make yourself a person they want to be around.

I know I could train myself to have more hits. I accept that but in all honesty, hits aren't what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for something unique, I just want something more.

First of all you have to try approaching women and make mistakes, then when you improve and start getting dates you have to experience what works and does not work on a date, then when you have had a few girlfriends you will learn how to be a better lover and then when you finally want to settle down you will know how get the lady of your dreams.
First you crawl, then you stand, then you walk and finally you can run.

So I apologise if this is just another ramble. I do appreciate your thoughts and perspectives.

Well make full use of people's thoughts and perspectives.

King Hearts

Why never me wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts. The thing is, you're all right. I have been reflecting on things since I started the thread and these are some of my thoughts.

I haven't been making an effort and although the hope of finding someone has naturally evaporated. If I made more of an effort, I would stand a higher chance of meeting someone. That's true. However, with my back story, motivating myself to find someone special after the failures I've experienced seems about as easy as motivating myself to resume my attempts to levitate. I'm not saying I have definitely given up looking but I just think that preserving my mental and emotional health is something I need to consider. I have to be realistic about MY situation- it may be less painful to draw a line under my attempts and focus on other aspects of my life. The thought of doing this makes my teeth itch but not everyone finds someone to share life. The evidence says I'm probably one of these people- do I want to spend the next decade of my short life wishing for, what evidently may never be? Also, consider that I may give up looking and it just may happen anyway. So what's the healthy thing to do? My situation reminds me of this quote- 'It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand'. This is why I'm increasingly reluctant to take any steps at all.

Maybe my friendship history is a metaphor for my relationship history. I don't have lots and lots of friends but the ones I have more close ones than most people. I don't have casual or shallow relationships with people. Likewise, as one poster suggested, just sitting back and enjoying the dating scene is something I would enjoy on some levels but realistically, for ME, it wouldn't be fulfilling for me. When it comes to all my relationship, it's quality and not quantity I want.

As regards "clicking" with women, I do meet women that I click with. Fairly regularly too. I don't believe in the idea of 'the one'. The ladies I meet that I click with are just with other guys or aren't interested in me. Simple as that. The numbers have always been against me. That's half the problem. I meet women I like (and they're not necessarily supermodels), and they're somehow unattainable. I know I could train myself to have more hits. I accept that but in all honesty, hits aren't what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for something unique, I just want something more.

So I apologise if this is just another ramble. I do appreciate your thoughts and perspectives.

Focus on enjoying yourself, building your social circle and finding your passions. At this stage I don't think it is healthy to find "the one". If you did find her you would no doubt become jealous and needy and afraid of loosing her. Right now you need to focus on your social skills and ability to attract women in general which will build your confidence. Just go out and have fun, when you see women on a night out you should see an opportunity to enjoy yourself. I'd also recommend you read "the power
of Now", it's a great book for
Learning to relax and set your worries a side.

LegacyUser

Well I am in the exact same both as you. it's like you were describing me.
But I think, you seem like a nice guy, you will find someone when the time is right.

I don't want to go through life alone so I'm remaining hopeful I will find a guy and it will just happen for me. I don't think I could ever give up hope for that:)