Simple ration.

caseman

Trying to reduce feed bill here. Fed up buying expensive ration from millers.
I've got a few straight prices here to see what ye think.
dried barley 185 tonne
distilllers 265 tonne
soya hulls 220 tonne
Would 50% barley 30% soya hulls 20% distillers be a desent mix for feeding heifers and young bulls.
This mix would work out at 209 euro a tonne.
Any other ideas out their.

Farmer Pudsey

caseman wrote: »

Trying to reduce feed bill here. Fed up buying expensive ration from millers.
I've got a few straight prices here to see what ye think.
dried barley 185 tonne
distilllers 265 tonne
soya hulls 220 tonne
Would 50% barley 30% soya hulls 20% distillers be a desent mix for feeding heifers and young bulls.
This mix would work out at 209 euro a tonne.
Any other ideas out their.

If for feeding with silage I would increase the barley and the distillers by 10% each and decrease the soyahulls. Your present mix is 13.5% protein approx. Distillers is 23% protein barley and hulls 11% approx.. If you are feeding silage as well you only need a small quanity if any. I put as much barley as possible at that price.

How much do you intend to feed and how much silage, is the barley rolled or milled.

caseman

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If for feeding with silage I would increase the barley and the distillers by 10% each and decrease the soyahulls. Your present mix is 13.5% protein approx. Distillers is 23% protein barley and hulls 11% approx.. If you are feeding silage as well you only need a small quanity if any. I put as much barley as possible at that price.

How much do you intend to feed and how much silage, is the barley rolled or milled.

Feeding with silage a small bit of straw.
I have to roll the barley myself not looking foward to that.

Farmer Pudsey

If my figures are right a mix of 30% distillers, 60% barley and 10% soyahulls would be about 14.5% protein. To increase/decrease Protein by 0.6% adjust distillers by 10%.

remember use minerals and Vitimans and I would add 1% cubicle lime(calcium) to the mix.

moy83

Is this being mixed in a diet feeder or is there a simpler way ?

caseman

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If my figures are right a mix of 30% distillers, 60% barley and 10% soyahulls would be about 14.5% protein. To increase/decrease Protein by 0.6% adjust distillers by 10%.

remember use minerals and Vitimans and I would add 1% cubicle lime(calcium) to the mix.

Would you get away without minerals and vitimans fedding heifers for 90 to 100 days.
I'll be feeding some yeast as well.

Farmer Pudsey

caseman wrote: »

Would you get away without minerals and vitimans fedding heifers for 90 to 100 days.
I'll be feeding some yeast as well.

If you are finishing I would feed about 20gr/100kgs it is not big money. If you pay 18 euro/25kg bag total cost is 5.5c/day for a 400kg animal and about 1/3 of that for calcium. Know a farmers that feeds ordinary salt to suckler cows over the winter swears by it not sure of the amount says he buys it by the Ton :eek::eek::eek:

Markcheese

caseman wrote: »

Feeding with silage a small bit of straw.
I have to roll the barley myself not looking foward to that.

Get an electric auger and a hopper to go over the roller mill , if you can position the roller (or make a frame ) to fill into a bulk bag or the loader bucket you shouldn't have too much drama,

Muckit

May be of help to someone. Took a pic off one of the teagasc boards at a recent farm walk. It shows two finishing rations formulated by Grange and Kildalton College

mf240

moy83 wrote: »

Is this being mixed in a diet feeder or is there a simpler way ?

Could mix a few ton with a front bucket.

Or else if a small farmer(like me) you could tip in three separate piles then just fill in separate buckets in required ratio and fire all into troughs together.

caseman

moy83 wrote: »

Is this being mixed in a diet feeder or is there a simpler way ?

No feeder, the distillers and soya come mixed then it's fill the wheelbarrow
Not easy but hopefully a feeder next year

bob charles

the value option would be barley and maize. There is a reason maize is the main cattle feed in the world. Two products that are consistent and your getting serious value this winter with. I fail to see how Teagasc can make a simple diet so complicated, but they probably wanted a higher protein content in the feed.


Corn Gluten is also good value this year but its a product I dont use, would give similar results to imported Dried distillers grains at a cheaper price.

Your soya hull are on the expensive side

Sharpshooter82

I was thinking of just feeding beef nuts, silage and rolled barley this winter

Muckit

bob charles wrote: »

the value option would be barley and maize. There is a reason maize is the main cattle feed in the world. Two products that are consistent and your getting serious value this winter with. I fail to see how Teagasc can make a simple diet so complicated, but they probably wanted a higher protein content in the feed.


Corn Gluten is also good value this year but its a product I dont use, would give similar results to imported Dried distillers grains at a cheaper price.

Your soya hull are on the expensive side

Bob can you tell me is there a difference between maize meal and flaked maize/clarenda/indian meal?

Muckit

OK bob here's a simpler one that he showed me.....

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

Bob can you tell me is there a difference between maize meal and flaked maize/clarenda/indian meal?

maize meal is maize ground to dust in a hammer mill
flaked maize is basically like corn flakes-more expensive but easier on stomach
Clarenda - some young wan you used to know?
Indian Meal - what you have before you go on the beer


I would have no problem feeding just one ingredient to animals on grass or with very good silage even for finishing cattle. A single ingredient keeps costs down and quality up. Most on here dont have to facilities and machinery to be messing around with 2 and 3 products, even the mill mixing them is adding considerably, with often the product having to go through the mill and extra haulage. There is peanuts to be made finishing cattle or anywhere in beef for that matter, cost have to be kept as low as possible without comprising on quality.

mf240

bob charles wrote: »

maize meal is maize ground to dust in a hammer mill
flaked maize is basically like corn flakes-more expensive but easier on stomach
Clarenda - some young wan you used to know?
Indian Meal - what you have before you go on the beer

How much more expensive are the flakes?

bob charles

mf240 wrote: »

How much more expensive are the flakes?

Kellogs or Tesco own brand??? I havnt a clue as never bought any quantity of them, guess €20 a ton, Flakes to me are just eye candy to make your weanling crunch look nice to you. Stick in a few green peas and farmers will go made for it

Muckit

bob charles wrote: »

Clarenda - some young wan you used to know?
Indian Meal - what you have before you go on the beer

Bob... let me educate you... maize is also called 'indian corn'. we used call it indian meal.

Now unless I'm going cuckoo (and that well maybe) I remember the oul lad also calling it Clarenda (perhaps it was on the bag?) Perhaps it came from Clarinda, Iowa in US?? I just googled.

We used to add it to boiled water and make a mash of it with spuds and feed it to our big hungry Labradors. My Granny used also feed this mash to hens.

Midlandsman80

Muckit wrote: »

Bob... let me educate you... maize is also called 'indian corn'. we used call it indian meal.

Now unless I'm going cuckoo (and that well maybe) I remember the oul lad also calling it Clarenda (perhaps it was on the bag?) Perhaps it came from Clarinda, Iowa in US?? I just googled.

We used to add it to boiled water and make a mash of it with spuds and feed it to our big hungry Labradors. My Granny used also feed this mash to hens.

Granny used to feed the hens "clarinda" soaked in water... just like cornflakes...dad still calls it that though the bag says Flaked maize...

Farmer Pudsey

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

Granny used to feed the hens "clarinda" soaked in water... just like cornflakes...dad still calls it that though the bag says Flaked maize...

I think it was also called ''preata'' or something like that as well

charityboy

Could that be presto ???

manjou

What i did last spring to feed to sucklers was got half ton bag of soya meal and ton bag of rollled barley and gave cows half kg of soya to 2 kg of barley.Measured weight in buckets and poured into my expensive diet feeder aka wheelbarrow then marked in barrow how much of each filled it and tipped it out as walked down passageway soya first and when came back with barley they had soya ate.Then spread minerals on barley took 15 minutes to feed 50 cows.

Farmer Pudsey

manjou wrote: »

What i did last spring to feed to sucklers was got half ton bag of soya meal and ton bag of rollled barley and gave cows half kg of soya to 2 kg of barley.Measured weight in buckets and poured into my expensive diet feeder aka wheelbarrow then marked in barrow how much of each filled it and tipped it out as walked down passageway soya first and when came back with barley they had soya ate.Then spread minerals on barley took 15 minutes to feed 50 cows.

I have the same model of diet feeder;).

bob charles

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have the same model of diet feeder;).

Is that the big green one, have you relined your shovel yet?

Dampintheattic

manjou wrote: »

What i did last spring to feed to sucklers was got half ton bag of soya meal and ton bag of rollled barley and gave cows half kg of soya to 2 kg of barley.Measured weight in buckets and poured into my expensive diet feeder aka wheelbarrow then marked in barrow how much of each filled it and tipped it out as walked down passageway soya first and when came back with barley they had soya ate.Then spread minerals on barley took 15 minutes to feed 50 cows.

That's for cows. I have similar diet feeder, so what would you recommend for feeding weanlings. In keeping over winter and selling in March / April.
Normally use 1.5kgs beef nuts for bulls and 1.0kgs to heifers.
Beef nuts seem to have more rubbish in them year after year.

Username John

Muckit wrote: »

Bob... let me educate you... maize is also called 'indian corn'. we used call it indian meal.

Now unless I'm going cuckoo (and that well maybe) I remember the oul lad also calling it Clarenda (perhaps it was on the bag?) Perhaps it came from Clarinda, Iowa in US?? I just googled.

We used to add it to boiled water and make a mash of it with spuds and feed it to our big hungry Labradors. My Granny used also feed this mash to hens.

I may be totally wrong about this...

But way back in famine times, was there corn meal brought in from the Indians in North America? Apparently they did some collection. So it was called Indian meal?
This is based on some half memory from national school, which may or may not be right - now that I think about, am sure the Indians had their own problems, so not sure

But that's where I think Indian meal came from, also called yellow meal round here.
And round here, flaked maize = prata as Pudsey said.
Clarenda, no idea...

Farmer Pudsey

bob charles wrote: »

Is that the big green one, have you relined your shovel yet?

No galvanised Bob with it heaped over the top it holds about 65kgs of a corse ration normally. Use a big aluminium shovel to unload push the bale of silage in front bale of straw between two pen.Can feed back and front of pens and can tip end of barrow. Green barrow too hard to push full and awkward to empty.

Feeding this way for 5-6 years since I build shed low maintenance and servicing costs. Good trick is to have a spare wheel to throw on if other one gets punctured.

Farmer Pudsey

Dampintheattic wrote: »

That's for cows. I have similar diet feeder, so what would you recommend for feeding weanlings. In keeping over winter and selling in March / April.
Normally use 1.5kgs beef nuts for bulls and 1.0kgs to heifers.
Beef nuts seem to have more rubbish in them year after year.

If you can get molasses there is a few different protein versions. Normal molasses is about 8%, then they have 14 and 23% as well as higher protein versions.

23% version with minerals and calcium would be the bees knees for weanlings. But a bit of work. A litre weighs about 1.5kgs. If you get it in IBC's and feed along top of silage and in trough at back if not enough head space. Will also reduce silage waste to minimum. Because of high moisture(around70%DM) feed about 40% more. Kg fo Kg it will be better than most bag rations and should come in at 70% of the price

leg wax

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you can get molasses there is a few different protein versions. Normal molasses is about 8%, then they have 14 and 23% as well as higher protein versions.

23% version with minerals and calcium would be the bees knees for weanlings. But a bit of work. A litre weighs about 1.5kgs. If you get it in IBC's and feed along top of silage and in trough at back if not enough head space. Will also reduce silage waste to minimum. Because of high moisture(around70%DM) feed about 40% more. Kg fo Kg it will be better than most bag rations and should come in at 70% of the price

but where can you collect this 23% version in ibcs

bob charles

leg wax wrote: »

but where can you collect this 23% version in ibcs

Molasses is really a super under used product, I use allot of it when not feeding beet. a kilo or 2 will replace nearly like for like grain considering whats in some of the bags. Some of the merchants and coops stock IBC so ring about or give Premier Molasses a ring for a supplier in your area

spec sheet attached.

http://www.premiermolasses.ie/images/stories/Product_analysis_DM-sept13.pdf.

Sharpshooter82

bob charles wrote: »

Molasses is really a super under used product, I use allot of it when not feeding beet. a kilo or 2 will replace nearly like for like grain considering whats in some of the bags. Some of the merchants and coops stock IBC so ring about or give Premier Molasses a ring for a supplier in your area

spec sheet attached.

http://www.premiermolasses.ie/images/stories/Product_analysis_DM-sept13.pdf.

wha pricet is a tank bob and would it last more than a year if you didnt use it all

bob charles

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

wha pricet is a tank bob and would it last more than a year if you didnt use it all

as in the price of an IBC? something around €215-€230 a ton for standard molasses. Last for ages and ages if you hadnt the use for it

Sharpshooter82

bob charles wrote: »

as in the price of an IBC? something around €215-€230 a ton for standard molasses. Last for ages and ages if you hadnt the use for it

cheers bob just thinking outside the box for my own little holding, i know the father in law wouldnt stray too far off straw, silage and nuts. id be mainly feeding around 12 over the winter

leg wax

bob charles wrote: »

Molasses is really a super under used product, I use allot of it when not feeding beet. a kilo or 2 will replace nearly like for like grain considering whats in some of the bags. Some of the merchants and coops stock IBC so ring about or give Premier Molasses a ring for a supplier in your area

spec sheet attached.

http://www.premiermolasses.ie/images/stories/Product_analysis_DM-sept13.pdf.

i feed molasses every year but could never get the higher protein 1 around here.

bob charles

leg wax wrote: »

i feed molasses every year but could never get the higher protein 1 around here.

how many tons are you looking for? IBC's or bulk. A bulk storage tank can be picked up for a few hundreds and they will deliver 10t lots on farm of special mixes as they have compartmented tankers

manjou

So molases fed across silage to weanlings would be a good protein feed and cheaper than rations.

Farmer Pudsey

manjou wrote: »

So molases fed across silage to weanlings would be a good protein feed and cheaper than rations.

I see Bob has this years specs up they have changed since last year. Nutri-mix or nutri-thrive would be suitable in small quanty's up to 3kgs( about 2 litres) per head. Would be better than most bag ration and would be better value. all cattle would need access as you feed so if no silage along back use half blue barrels.

It is fairly heavy so will need a way of getting IBC off trailer. you may have to transfer some in to 5 gallon drums. However if merchant will deliver and unload let him at it. If you get a few locally to take it might be really viable.

Sam Kade

manjou wrote: »

So molases fed across silage to weanlings would be a good protein feed and cheaper than rations.

I thought molasses was more of an energy feed.

bob charles

Sam Kade wrote: »

I thought molasses was more of an energy feed.

It is mainly an energy feed but no point they being a one trick pony so have blends with high protein, It isnt a urea based protein either, main a whey based protein. I only buy cane molasses as I already have excess protein in the diet

manjou

Sam Kade wrote: »

I thought molasses was more of an energy feed.

Thats what i thought but you learn something new everyday.Will try it this year on weanling bullocks.

Farmer Pudsey

manjou wrote: »

Thats what i thought but you learn something new everyday.Will try it this year on weanling bullocks.

I think that the recommend that it makes up no more than 20% of the diet

pat73

I got 1.25 tonnes of eco-maize molasses in Foynes harbour last Friday.I filled up a ibc tank.It was 34% protein and 32% energy.I got it for weanlings that are out wintered.I just throw it in the trough and put the ration on top.It is not as sweet as the cane molasses but it is high on protein.It worked out at 235 euro with my own tank.They will supply a tank for 80 euro.I gave my weanlings last year cane molasses and I thought they put on good condition over the winter,will just try eco-maize this time.only problem last year was trying to get the molasses to the trough with out been attacked.

Farmer Pudsey

pat73 wrote: »

I got 1.25 tonnes of eco-maize molasses in Foynes harbour last Friday.I filled up a ibc tank.It was 34% protein and 32% energy.I got it for weanlings that are out wintered.I just throw it in the trough and put the ration on top.It is not as sweet as the cane molasses but it is high on protein.It worked out at 235 euro with my own tank.They will supply a tank for 80 euro.I gave my weanlings last year cane molasses and I thought they put on good condition over the winter,will just try eco-maize this time.only problem last year was trying to get the molasses to the trough with out been attacked.

This is called assault with a sticky nose. Was that 235@ around 60% DM. I would consider it a bit expensive this year. That is working out about 330/ton. You have to allow for that it is a bit harder to handle than a nut/ration.

Molasses is however a superb feed and has advantages that crows or birds will not stick around with it. However it is very heavy at about 1.4kgs/ litre. So a 15L bucket weights over 20kg when full

pat73

235 euro for 1.25 tonnes.Its 60DM .I just half fill 5 gallon drums and just leave them around the troughs.it is fierce heavy.I must try and make up a licker so they can be getting some in other than in the troughs

Muckit

Would molasses flow out of the tap on an ibc? It just strikes me as being very thick

Farmer Pudsey

Muckit wrote: »

Would molasses flow out of the tap on an ibc? It just strikes me as being very thick

It will you can use a 2" or 3" tap. You cannot reduce much below 2". Take a little bit to fill. The lower DM (higher Protein) would be faster to flow. The biggest issue with it is the weight. Very easy to end up with 20kgs in buckets. Hard on the back.

just do it

How are ye storing the straights such as barley or maize? I'd awful trouble from both our fury and feathered friends with nuts.

Sharpshooter82

I hold my ration in an ibc tank with the top cut out

td5man

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

I hold my ration in an ibc tank with the top cut out

How much does it hold? :-)

Sharpshooter82

td5man wrote: »

How much does it hold? :-)

Don't you bloody start :D