Sunshine, a curious little station

heybaby

Just been listening to Sunshine for the last 60 minutes, just a couple of observations. Its just before 3 yet the show I'm listening to since 2 pm.is called More music 'Drive', surely 2 pm is a Tad early to start a drivetime show?

Anyway the presenter (Joe Harrington) treated the listeners to the sum total of TWO links in the entire hour, the first of which came after half an hour and consisted of 7 minutes of rambling during which a list of the previous 30 minutes of songs was given, a competition, and observations about the weekends sport!! Whatever happened to one thought per link?

The second and final time we heard from.the presenter was 7 minutes before news in a link into a song which lasted 15 seconds.

What is the point in having such a disjointed format?

JoeA3

This reminds me... I find it odd when I hear Gareth O'C over on 4FM always referring to "the afternoon" when it's after 5pm, or even coming up to 7pm. All the stranger when the evenings are getting darker!

GSF

Sunshine sounds pre recorded a lot of the time and badly to boot. They also sound as if they only own about 3 CDs such is the repetition of songs.

If the people that produce the output don't listen to the station why should anyone else?

Losty Dublin

Their licence is up for grabs soon enough as well. Given their poor audience performance and numerous reinventions over their time on air coupled with the lack of openings for new franchises on air in Dublin, this application process will be very interesting to keep an eye on. Remember, their licence is for a niche music station and not actually a country music one so anybody per se can apply for this.

RadioAnalyst

Very interesting thread this, thanks for bringing it up Heybaby.

From my perspective in the Marketing/Advertising world, it's interesting that I have never seen any pitches from Sunshine come into the building let alone find their way to my desk. That applies to the Country Mix days too. The company regularly gets pitches from stations with far less listeners, I don't need to name them, but never anything from Sunshine.

As Losty says, the licence is up for grabs at the moment. Two groups approached the radio sales side of the organisation here but both have decided not to proceed with their applications. Neither were proposing a country music service. Problem is, retail advertising for specialist music stations is in very short supply at the moment and that has understandably put a number of potential groups off.

I think the most interesting thing here will be to see if Sunshine apply for the renewal of their licence at all.

Losty Dublin

RadioAnalyst wrote: »

Very interesting thread this, thanks for bringing it up Heybaby.

From my perspective in the Marketing/Advertising world, it's interesting that I have never seen any pitches from Sunshine come into the building let alone find their way to my desk. That applies to the Country Mix days too. The company regularly gets pitches from stations with far less listeners, I don't need to name them, but never anything from Sunshine.

From a wee bit of inside knowledge, they were almost totally reliant on their field sales reps for ads and revenue. From what I hear from the station today, they still rely on the door to door sale and some crossover package sales so it's very much hand to mouth in there.

bbability

Have a good look around the Dublin Market and see if you can find one station that's broadcasting the same format they started with. A recent example would be 4fm although multi city, is not broadcasting to its original format. Sunshine is another example. Is there no market in Dublin or commuter belt for a Country Music Station? I believe there is, it just needs to be delivered right.

heybaby

bbability wrote: »

Have a good look around the Dublin Market and see if you can find one station that's broadcasting the same format they started with. A recent example would be 4fm although multi city, is not broadcasting to its original format. Sunshine is another example. Is there no market in Dublin or commuter belt for a Country Music Station? I believe there is, it just needs to be delivered right.

I would disagree. Country music is not and never really has been popular outside of a very small number of listeners in Dublin. Ulster is the only place on this island where Country music is popular beyond the odd specialist programme on a station's schedule. In fact specialist / niche stations have been unsuccessful in Dublin , just look at Phantom as a perfect example. Nova is bucking the trend but only after diluting down the rock content substantially. The fact is that Dublin as a market is too small to cater for specialist stations and for them to be successful.

Losty Dublin

Country's problem begin and end with their not wanting to play country music as Irish people know it and their apparent shame they seem to see in playing same. They tried from day one to glam it up playing new age American country in an attempt to impress the agency market but it bombed from day one, mainly because nobody knew who or what they were playing or playing to. This simply scared off their intended target audience and new listeners from the word go; further relaunches chased off what few listeners they had while well publicised cutbacks didn't leave marketing teams with a lot of confidence.

Had they went with the Big Toms, Margos, Mike Denvers and laced with the muzak that they do play they'd probably have won a solid and loyal audience in and around the 5-6%, they'd have kept hold of most of their old presenter crew and they'd not have had to bear the expense and hassle of numerous relaunches and rebranding campaigns. While the station as is a shadow of what it was meant to have been it has held onto fairly steady JNLR figures over the last few years once it decided where it was going and it's cloth was duly cut for it, albeit at a shoestring.

Fuzzy Clam

heybaby wrote: »

I would disagree. Country music is not and never really has been popular outside of a very small number of listeners in Dublin. Ulster is the only place on this island where Country music is popular beyond the odd specialist programme on a station's schedule. In fact specialist / niche stations have been unsuccessful in Dublin , just look at Phantom as a perfect example. Nova is bucking the trend but only after diluting down the rock content substantially. The fact is that Dublin as a market is too small to cater for specialist stations and for them to be successful.

From recollection, Country and Irish was played extensively on the "local" stations around the country during the 1980's.
I partly disagree about your statement regarding Phantom. Almost by definition (indie music), Phantom was always going to only get a very small percentage. If it was more popular, it would probably would have being appealing to the wrong audience (If I'm making sense).
I also don't agree that the Dublin market is too small for Specialist stations, rather it's the structure they are forced to operate within that's the problem.

Back on topic, I listened to about 30 mins of Sunshine tonight.
I heard only one link, no ads and really no Country music at all. At a push (a very big push at that), 2 of the songs had could vaguely be called Country but more by association. One was by Olivia Newton John, for example.

Fuzzy Clam

heybaby wrote: »

Nova is bucking the trend but only after diluting down the rock content substantially.

Diluting it down so much that it reeks of ignorance.
At one stage it seemed that any song that contained the word "rock" in the title was put on the playlist. I think Google must have a large part in the playlisting.
Another favorite of Nova is to play songs by Groups/Artistes on the basis that that Group/artiste has had a rock song at some stage. Bowies Lets Dance is most definitely not rock.:mad:

coylemj

Country FM started off with a good crew and mission statement but their credibility was severely dented when they signed up Neil Toner and made him play MOR dross like the Eagles as 'country'. They then rebranded themselves as a middle of the road station called Sunshine and thankfully Neil managed to salvage his reputation by getting the hell out of the place. It was a classic case of a station getting a licence under a particular banner and then unilaterally expanding their remit to widen their attractiveness to advertisers.

They have since been buried by the advent of stations such as 4FM and Nova and I really can't see which niche they are pursuing. Dead in the the water if you ask me.

bbability

The history behind that licence tells a story in itself. I disagree that there is no market for country music in Dublin, the market is there alright, it's how you pitch yourself and your station. Dublin's Country was never pointing in the right direction for the hard core of country music listeners, hence why they continued to listen to other alternatives. The line up wasn't great when it started up and today the line up and format have completely changed.
When you look a the big picture there are radio stations broadcasting in Dublin to the same market in a roundabout way, 4FM and Q102 for example. I think the BAI should give no option to Sunshines renewal other than to revert to original format with proper country and Irish music playlist. The correct line up would also make a difference. It's never gonna be a million dollar exercise but I would like to see it have another try.

Onthe3rdDay

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Had they went with the Big Toms, Margos, Mike Denvers and laced with the muzak that they do play they'd probably have won a solid and loyal audience in and around the 5-6%,

It would have been moderately successful but embarrassing. From almost the first day they got the license they wanted to dilute the product. Advertising agencies don't like Country and Irish (I can't blame them) However, as Losty Dublin as stated they would have gotten that 5 to 6 percent and a good few advertisers, just not sexy ones.

It's the same on local radio around the country as well. Daytime has little Country and Irish these days concentrating on everything but that type of music. However after 7pm several stations switch to the Country and Irish format and it appears to work.

A few years back when AM was still half alive it would have been possible to start Regional or National stations with that format and you could have made a profit but again the ad agencies wouldn't be too keen.

I really think that if it was run properly a profit would be made. It's almost certainly the biggest musical niche not served in the Dublin Area.

Ol' Donie

Saw this thread, so though i'd stick it on. Gentle on my was on. Good enough for me.

:-)

Losty Dublin

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

It would have been moderately successful but embarrassing. From almost the first day they got the license they wanted to dilute the product. Advertising agencies don't like Country and Irish (I can't blame them) However, as Losty Dublin as stated they would have gotten that 5 to 6 percent and a good few advertisers, just not sexy ones.

It's the same on local radio around the country as well. Daytime has little Country and Irish these days concentrating on everything but that type of music. However after 7pm several stations switch to the Country and Irish format and it appears to work.

A few years back when AM was still half alive it would have been possible to start Regional or National stations with that format and you could have made a profit but again the ad agencies wouldn't be too keen.

I really think that if it was run properly a profit would be made. It's almost certainly the biggest musical niche not served in the Dublin Area.

As opposed to unsuccessful and embarrassing

Funnily enough, in terms of listeners and ratings Sunshine's best performing show is Paddy Cole on a Sunday. He doesn't play any of the diluted product that they play the rest of the week.

It would make you wonder at times.

Declan A Walsh

Have a look at Wikipedia's entry on Sunshine 106.8. Someone went to a lot of trouble lately with uptodate information on its current and past presenter lineups. It makes for interesting reading.

Tallaght Twin

So what I understand from posts from a number of posters is that; if the ad agencies don't like the music format, the music format won't be successful, hence Country FM diluting their offering.

So in other words, its the ad agencies who dictate what type of music is played to us, and daren't station programmers disregard the agencies opinion, or they won't deal with them.

I too believe that there is a small, yet solid and loyal audience in Dublin for Country n Irish, if it was done right. And that may be embarrassing to the 29 yo married woman, two kids living in south Dublin, but probably not to the 58 yo civil servant who took the early retirement lump sum package the Govt gave recently, with wife, plenty of spare time to go to dances and sessions, three grown up children and a weekend cottage in "the whest". These people need to be advertised to as well.

Onthe3rdDay

Tallaght Twin wrote: »

So what I understand from posts from a number of posters is that; if the ad agencies don't like the music format, the music format won't be successful, hence Country FM diluting their offering.

So in other words, its the ad agencies who dictate what type of music is played to us, and daren't station programmers disregard the agencies opinion, or they won't deal with them.

I too believe that there is a small, yet solid and loyal audience in Dublin for Country n Irish, if it was done right. And that may be embarrassing to the 29 yo married woman, two kids living in south Dublin, but probably not to the 58 yo civil servant who took the early retirement lump sum package the Govt gave recently, with wife, plenty of spare time to go to dances and sessions, three grown up children and a weekend cottage in "the whest". These people need to be advertised to as well.

Yes but they're not sexy! They're not the one's that they want listening to the station. They never really wanted a Country Music Station. They just wanted a station and then believed they'd be able to change it to the way they wanted it. Listen to the Dublin Airwaves and almost all stations are trying to serve the 50 percent in the middle. Any niche station that begins with good intentions seems to be squeezed and they slowly start sounding like the rest.

Other niche stations that start have other motives. A small change here and there and eventually you're left with a station that doesn't reflect the original licence proposal.

You're right that there's a real market for this type of station but it wouldn't sound as polished. You'd have to go out and get advertising from places that normally wouldn't advertise on radio. The bizarre thing is that if they reached the over 50's with that format, eventually the advertising agencies would show an interest.

RadioRetro

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

1) Advertising agencies don't like Country and Irish (I can't blame them)...

2) It's the same on local radio around the country as well. Daytime has little Country and Irish these days concentrating on everything but that type of music. However after 7pm several stations switch to the Country and Irish format and it appears to work.

3)I really think that if it was run properly a profit would be made. It's almost certainly the biggest musical niche not served in the Dublin Area.

1) Never mind the ad agencies, have you checked the "Entertainment" ads in the Sunday World? Reams of gigs, record releases and hotel country weekend specials by hotels. A ripe market.

2) The station I work in has a Country & Irish presenter who's so popular he's on seven days a week. Requests? ****loads.

3) Agree 100%. Never forget TTTR. Popular as ****.

Onthe3rdDay

RadioRetro wrote: »

1) Never mind the ad agencies, have you checked the "Entertainment" ads in the Sunday World? Reams of gigs, record releases and hotel country weekend specials by hotels. A ripe market.

2) The station I work in has a Country & Irish presenter who's so popular he's on seven days a week. Requests? ****loads.

You hit the nail on the head. I can't disagree with you at all. There's huge money in the industry. In fact Country and Irish is the one are of the music industry where downloads haven't taken off yet. (Now home taping is a different story!)

There's not a big market in Dublin as such perhaps 5 to 8 percent tops that would listen, but 5 percent of the Dublin Market would have the same amount of people listening as many popular local stations in the west and the south.

However, if you work in the industry you know what I'm taking about. Some people are too good for that kind of stuff. It's not cool.

If Sunshine had any sense they'd Change to an all Country format, with a lot of Country and Irish and have a station name with call letters.

ford fiesta

Sunshine should play all new and old country & irish (all types) and apply for a national licence! it would give the locals a run for their money!

Infoanon

Treble TR, KIC FM and ICE FM proved there was an audience for country music in Dublin.

The issue imho is the restrictions put in place on the playlist by the BAI and the very high cost base for stations in Ireland.

Theres also the issue with the name 'Sunshine' - the intended audience associate the name with 'the Red Hot Sound of Sunshine 101' - again blame resides with the BAI.

Onthe3rdDay

Infoanon wrote: »

Theres also the issue with the name 'Sunshine' - the intended audience associate the name with 'the Red Hot Sound of Sunshine 101' - again blame resides with the BAI.

How is that the fault of the BAI? the station management wanted the name. It's the fault of the station. They don't want it to be a country station, they want to be 'the Red Hot Sound of Sunshine 101' The licence should have been taken back by the BAI.

Infoanon

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

How is that the fault of the BAI? the station management wanted the name. It's the fault of the station. They don't want it to be a country station, they want to be 'the Red Hot Sound of Sunshine 101' The licence should have been taken back by the BAI.

They approached the BAI with 3 suggestions - by all accounts Sunshine was the managements least preferred option, same as Country mix which was not their preferred choice.

Onthe3rdDay

Infoanon wrote: »

They approached the BAI with 3 suggestions - by all accounts Sunshine was the managements least preferred option, same as Country mix which was not their preferred choice.

The original Name was Dublin's Country 106.8, but it always appeared that they didn't want it to be a country station. So they had a name change and then another.

They were the one's that approached the BAI and it was managements least preferred option that got picked, but it was still an option that the management offered. The station can't go blaming the BAI for picking one of the three names that are suggested. The BAI aren't psychic! In other words it appears that they want to say it's everyone's fault but theirs.

Do you know what name they actually wanted?

gavindowd

According to radiotoday , Sunshine has had a rival bid on its license...

L1011

gavindowd wrote: »

According to radiotoday , Sunshine has had a rival bid on its license...

It has two rival bids.

http://www.bai.ie/?p=3844

This mean they'll have to actually go to the effort of submitting a proper bid rather than looking for the expedited award that 98/104 got earlier in the year.

Highland also has one, but that'd be for another thread.

musicboy

Originally Posted by Onthe3rdDay
It would have been moderately successful but embarrassing. From almost the first day they got the license they wanted to dilute the product. Advertising agencies don't like Country and Irish (I can't blame them) However, as Losty Dublin as stated they would have gotten that 5 to 6 percent and a good few advertisers, just not sexy ones.

It's the same on local radio around the country as well. Daytime has little Country and Irish these days concentrating on everything but that type of music. However after 7pm several stations switch to the Country and Irish format and it appears to work.

A few years back when AM was still half alive it would have been possible to start Regional or National stations with that format and you could have made a profit but again the ad agencies wouldn't be too keen.

I really think that if it was run properly a profit would be made. It's almost certainly the biggest musical niche not served in the Dublin Area.
16-09-2013, 09:19



Just exactly who would it be embarrassing for. If embarrassment is a concern I would have thought that a properly run country / country and irish station could not possibly be any more embarrassing than the absolute drivel that is Sunshine

Onthe3rdDay

musicboy wrote: »

Just exactly who would it be embarrassing for. If embarrassment is a concern I would have thought that a properly run country / country and irish station could not possibly be any more embarrassing than the absolute drivel that is Sunshine

I agree with you. It's a poor excuse for a station. They would be likely to lose the licence if a decent bid is made. However, the BAI need to make sure that the bid accepted isn't changed this time around.

Infoanon

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I agree with you. It's a poor excuse for a station. They would be likely to lose the licence if a decent bid is made. However, the BAI need to make sure that the bid accepted isn't changed this time around.

That would be a first !

Easy FM is expected to be one of the challengers for the licence - should be confirmed during October who the 2 new bidders are.