New car advice - 3.0l upwards wanted with unusual trade in...

IrishZeus

Hello all,

Looking for some advice please as I'm in a slightly unusual situation.

Currently we have 2 cars and due to a change in jobs/houses etc etc, we are looking to change to 1 car. We would be looking to trade these in as 1.) I have a preference to buy through a dealer than to go private and 2.) it will save us a major headache trying to sell privately. The current cars are:

• 2006 BMW 318i SE
• 2006 Opel Astra OPC (might try sell this by itself and then trade the BMW in)

Question: Would a dealer take 2 cars in a single transaction?

And now the important question: what I'm looking to buy! Different options so far and want to see if someone could suggest anything different. There are only two main guidelines - It MUST be diesel (for reasons I won't go into here) and preferably not lacking for power (as coming off the OPC is hard enough as it is!) We are not looking to spend too much money to change - hopefully only 1k or 2k along with the two cars above - therefore I think a guide price of 12-13k(ish).

What I have looked at so far that I would consider:

• 2005 7-series BMW 3.0d M-Sport
• 2006 5-series BWM 3.0d M-sport
• 2007 Jeep Commander 3.0d
• 2005 BMW 535d
• 2007 Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 320

The Range Rover below was my preference but the performance from the 2.7l is not what I would be hoping for, and I can't find a better model in the price range without going too old. Also, apparently they do not have a great track record reliability wise

What I have ruled out so far:

• BMW X5 (ruled out - find them to be quite ugly)
• Mercedes M-class (as above - don't like them looks wise)
• Mercedes S-Class (find these very bland inside and out)
• 2005 Range Rover Sport 2.7 (Removed based on reliability!)

Driving will be mostly longer trips on motorways/national roads. The reason for looking at 4x4's is that one of the main places we go is the back-end of Donegal so would be nice to have for there. We both also play golf so the extra space would be good to have.

So does anybody know of anything else I should look at? And could anybody give me some advice towards the options I have looked at above? Things to look out for, recommendations etc etc?

Thanks all, apologies for the long post....

Sobanek

2006 Mercedes ML320 CDI
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/M-Class/*ML-320-/34213644038547390/advert?channel=CARS

2005 Audi A8 3.0 TDI Quattro
Currently no dealer selling a single one to my surprise!

2005 BMW 535d (Fastest out of them all)
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/535-D-SE/35813681987191560/advert?channel=CARS

IrishZeus

Thanks!

The M-Class wouldn't appeal to me looks wise - apologies I should have stuck that in my op.

The 535d would definitely appeal - I hadn't found that one so thank you.

And the A8 would be an option, if as you said, there was one

Wexfordian

IrishZeus wrote: »

Question: Would a dealer take 2 cars in a single transaction?

Can't of course speak for every dealer, but I have previously traded a 00 Lancer and a 96 Micra against a Yaris. Wasn't any huge issue to the dealer, provided that the value of the combined cars wasn't exceeding the value of the new one.

Wexfordian

Actually no idea what these are like off road...

Edit: Oh sorry had to be diesel, ignore...

IrishZeus

Ya, I had looked at the Cayennes and they would have been an option but has to be diesel this time...

Max Power1

If you are looking for the fastest diesel car out there, none come to mind that are faster than the 535d

Certainly none of the ones mentioned anyway.

YbFocus

Max Power1 wrote: »

If you are looking for the fastest diesel car out there, none come to mind that are faster than the 535d

Certainly none of the ones mentioned anyway.

335d

IrishZeus

Its not just speed I'm looking for, thats just one of the factors.

I hate the thoughts of going from the OPC to a diesel performance wise, so I want to minimize the impact there, but style, comfort, reliability etc are all factors too.

IrishZeus

YbFocus wrote: »

335d

Would like to go a little bigger body-wise, but I like your thinking

_Kaiser_

IrishZeus wrote: »

Would like to go a little bigger body-wise, but I like your thinking

3.0 TDI Quattro A6 - I love mine

YbFocus

I have a 530d, 218hp and 500Nm torque, I find that fair quick for a daily car that can return 40mpg. A 535d would be very fast, Max would know the stats better than me but it's in the region of 270hp and 580Nm.
Big, comfortable, refined (a bit ), good image and power.
All the boxes

Max Power1

YbFocus wrote: »

335d

Would be marginally faster, but it is not in the same league of car to be fair.

YbFocus wrote: »

I have a 530d, 218hp and 500Nm torque, I find that fair quick for a daily car that can return 40mpg. A 535d would be very fast, Max would know the stats better than me but it's in the region of 270hp and 580Nm.
Big, comfortable, refined (a bit ), good image and power.
All the boxes

the pre LCI 535d's are 272 bhp and 580 nm of torque afaik

Would be nowhere near 40mpg though. Im seeing 31 on average since i bought the car and thats with some long motorway cruising which averages 43-45. In town and suburbs I often dont see 20mpg.

The engine is refined by petrol standards (except initially after a cold start) and you wouldnt be beaten off the lights.

Max Power1

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

3.0 TDI Quattro A6 - I love mine

I was considering a 4.2 TDI A8 before getting the 535d, but there were no suitable ones available.

Dont think they would match the 535d for pace though!

IrishZeus

Would there be a big difference between the 530 and the 535? Is the extra BHP and torque that noticeable? (Asking as I have yet to drive either, something I hope to do this week)

On paper, 535 would be my preference obviously but would be much harder to find at the right price

IrishZeus

Folks, another question:

Based on the level of cars and engine I am looking at, what kind of mileage is "acceptable" when purchasing? (An open-to-interpretation question I know)

Do any of them have any limits where trouble would normally start to kick in?

Max Power1

IrishZeus wrote: »

Would there be a big difference between the 530 and the 535? Is the extra BHP and torque that noticeable? (Asking as I have yet to drive either, something I hope to do this week)

On paper, 535 would be my preference obviously but would be much harder to find at the right price

The biggest difference between a 535 and a 530 is the linear power delivery due to the low down turbo which kicks in at just over tickover.

I dont experience any turbo lag because of the first small turbo, which kicks in to cover the lag of the bigger turbo.

I think the lack of lag and the torque/power curves are more noticeable than the actual bhp and nm figures. I mean the 530d is no slouch, I had a quick test drive in an SE model a few months before I got the 535d and it was a quick car. I'd rate it as noticeably slower low down than the 535d though.
Is that performance worth the near 10mpg difference between the two? For most probably not, but i feel it was!

YbFocus

Your right in fairness, the 30d gives a feel of come on for God's sake until 1700 or so. At that stage she's in
but at 50,000 miles annually I couldn't justify 10mpg less.
Would love one though
The 30d is fine though, plenty quick for nearly anyone and a dropped gear sorts the lag

IrishZeus

Max Power1 wrote: »

The biggest difference between a 535 and a 530 is the linear power delivery due to the low down turbo which kicks in at just over tickover.

I dont experience any turbo lag because of the first small turbo, which kicks in to cover the lag of the bigger turbo.

I think the lack of lag and the torque/power curves are more noticeable than the actual bhp and nm figures. I mean the 530d is no slouch, I had a quick test drive in an SE model a few months before I got the 535d and it was a quick car. I'd rate it as noticeably slower low down than the 535d though.
Is that performance worth the near 10mpg difference between the two? For most probably not, but i feel it was!

Damn you - I was really hoping for a "No, its not noticeable at all!" :P

Now I have to go and strike the 530d off the list and find a 535d!

Any thoughts on the mileage question Max?

Max Power1

YbFocus wrote: »

Your right in fairness, the 30d gives a feel of come on for God's sake until 1700 or so. At that stage she's in
but at 50,000 miles annually I couldn't justify 10mpg less.
Would love one though
The 30d is fine though, plenty quick for nearly anyone and a dropped gear sorts the lag

In fairness I don't know how accurate the 10 mpg figure is, I just took it from conversations here I had with you on the subject!

As I was test driving the 30d I didnt feel comfortable to push it on too much but I did see the lag. It was an auto so no dropping gear option, I was in kickdown mode which did drop 2 gears but still had some lag.

Logically the 530d makes the most sense, i mean it is >90% of the performance with 25% better economy and a cheaper purchase price.

YbFocus

Max Power1 wrote: »

In fairness I don't know how accurate the 10 mpg figure is, I just took it from conversations here I had with you on the subject!

As I was test driving the 30d I didnt feel comfortable to push it on too much but I did see the lag. It was an auto so no dropping gear option, I was in kickdown mode which did drop 2 gears but still had some lag.

Logically the 530d makes the most sense, i mean it is >90% of the performance with 25% better economy and a cheaper purchase price.

Yeah to be fair I'd say it's the best option, 40-43mpg on the motorway is grand, I'd say get a 30d unless you can afford the extra running.

Max Power1

IrishZeus wrote: »

Damn you - I was really hoping for a "No, its not noticeable at all!" :P

Now I have to go and strike the 530d off the list and find a 535d!

Any thoughts on the mileage question Max?

I wouldnt be looking so much at the mileage as the FSH.

These cars, whether you go for a 530 or a 535, are sensitive beasts and need to be serviced and have the correct spec oil changed at the right time.

I bought mine with 175k km on the clock. FSH and she's running grand at 187k km. I must get her checked to see if the swirl flaps have been removed as it is not mentioned, now that you say. I forgot this.

YbFocus

Max Power1 wrote: »

I wouldnt be looking so much at the mileage as the FSH.

These cars, whether you go for a 530 or a 535, are sensitive beasts and need to be serviced and have the correct spec oil changed at the right time.

I bought mine with 175k km on the clock. FSH and she's running grand at 187k km. I must get her checked to see if the swirl flaps have been removed as it is not mentioned, now that you say. I forgot this.

pull the manifold man, 20 mins work!

Max Power1

YbFocus wrote: »

Yeah to be fair I'd say it's the best option, 40-43mpg on the motorway is grand, I'd say get a 30d unless you can afford the extra running.

I agree, the only reason I let myself get the 535 over a 530 was (auto c*ck waving coming up) I didnt want to be repaying a 14k car loan for a car that I would be unhappy when a slightly better spec (ie a 535) pulled up at the lights beside me and I knew his car was a bit better than mine!

Of course now, the guy beside me in the 530d is laughing when I pass him out and head in to a topaz straight after!

Max Power1

YbFocus wrote: »

pull the manifold man, 20 mins work!

Didnt know it was a DIY job

Ill google it later, surely theres a youtube instruction video. Thanks

YbFocus

Engine cover, disconnect injector loom, 8 million manifold bolts. Reverse.

As far as I remember. That's presuming she's the same on top as mine which is be fairly sure of.

IrishZeus

Max Power1 wrote: »

I wouldnt be looking so much at the mileage as the FSH.

These cars, whether you go for a 530 or a 535, are sensitive beasts and need to be serviced and have the correct spec oil changed at the right time.

I bought mine with 175k km on the clock. FSH and she's running grand at 187k km. I must get her checked to see if the swirl flaps have been removed as it is not mentioned, now that you say. I forgot this.

Ya, kinda figured as much myself to be honest. Any experience with the 7-series? This one in particular:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/730D-SE-/36513752016396530/advert?channel=CARS

Max Power1

IrishZeus wrote: »

Ya, kinda figured as much myself to be honest. Any experience with the 7-series? This one in particular:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/730D-SE-/36513752016396530/advert?channel=CARS

Lot of car for the money, but a different animal to a 530-535 that you were looking at.

Its a luxury saloon first and a quite quick one at that, but will be eaten alive by a 5'er with the same engine

If you are looking for pace with a lot of luxury then the 530/535 is the way to go, if you are looking for luxury with a lot of pace then go with the 7'er

Idbatterim

what about the below OP? This is coming from one of the biggest BM fanboys out there by the way, just think the shape is spectacular and oozes class...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CLS-Class/320-CDI-/37113784098387370/advert?channel=CARS

IrishZeus

Idbatterim wrote: »

what about the below OP? This is coming from one of the biggest BM fanboys out there by the way, just think the shape is spectacular and oozes class...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CLS-Class/320-CDI-/37113784098387370/advert?channel=CARS

That is a gorgeous car and fits the bill... Thanks for the suggestion - I'll have a look into it

Tea 1000

Max Power1 wrote: »

Would be marginally faster, but it is not in the same league of car to be fair.

Better handling car though, if he found a touring 335d it'd be a nice odd-ball!

Max Power1 wrote: »

I was considering a 4.2 TDI A8 before getting the 535d, but there were no suitable ones available.

Dont think they would match the 535d for pace though!

They would alright, 313bhp. They'd beat it, but just about. Can't find many around though.

Idbatterim

2007 Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 320

ah I missed that you had included it in your original list

IrishZeus

Idbatterim wrote: »

ah I missed that you had included it in your original list

I hadn't - I added it in after you suggested it so others wouldn't repost

pcardin

IrishZeus wrote: »

What I have looked at so far that I would consider:

• 2005 7-series BMW 3.0d M-Sport
• 2006 5-series BWM 3.0d M-sport
  
• 2005 Range Rover Sport 2.7 (I'm worried about power levels in this?!?)
• 2007 Jeep Commander 3.0d
• 2005 BMW 535d
• 2007 Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 320

The Range Rover was my preference

oh, you don't want that garbage on your driveway; altought it won't be there much as most days will be spent in garage fixing things that normally do not brake on cars.

My choice would be CLS (petrol however). Beautiful machine.

Idbatterim

the fact that it has 1 owner, was taxed up until end of August and has decent nct left are all very positive signs IMO...

IrishZeus

pcardin wrote: »

oh, you don't want that garbage on your driveway; altought it won't be there much as most days will be spent in garage fixing things that normally do not brake on cars.

Speaking from personal experience?

I have no idea what these are like in terms of reliability... The only reasons I want one are for the look and size to be honest - something about them just appeals to me!

Max Power1

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Better handling car though, if he found a touring 335d it'd be a nice odd-ball!

They would alright, 313bhp. They'd beat it, but just about. Can't find many around though.

313bhp in a much heavier car, the 535d e60 is only 1600kg

And also it is not bi-turbo, meaning the issue of turbo lag is also a factor.

pcardin

IrishZeus wrote: »

Speaking from personal experience?

I have no idea what these are like in terms of reliability... The only reasons I want one are for the look and size to be honest - something about them just appeals to me!

Yes, unfortunately from personal, 2,7 diesel automatic 2006. I was happy when I got it and even more happy when it was finally sold. Bought it purely because that was the only suv I ever liked but didn't expect that it would be so poorly build. Naive of thinking that because burned myself in past with a Jag.
Now, every "english" build car is classified as junk in my books so my view can not be taken seriously.

Max Power1

pcardin wrote: »

Yes, unfortunately from personal, 2,7 diesel automatic 2006. I was happy when I got it and even more happy when it was finally sold. Bought it purely because that was the only suv I ever liked but didn't expect that it would be so poorly build. Naive of thinking that because burned myself in past with a Jag.
Now, every "english" build car is classified as junk in my books so my view can not be taken seriously.

So why have you lumped the 535d and 7 series in with that?

IrishZeus

Max Power1 wrote: »

So why have you lumped the 535d and 7 series in with that?

I think he might have meant just the Range Rover and not the BMW's.

Are Range Rovers traditionally unreliable?

Tea 1000

Max Power1 wrote: »

313bhp in a much heavier car, the 535d e60 is only 1600kg

And also it is not bi-turbo, meaning the issue of turbo lag is also a factor.

It's about 200kgs heavier, but with a bit more torque and still manages 5.9seconds to 62mph, so lag mustn't be that much of an issue! The max torque is delivered at the same 1750rpm as the 535d.

Tea 1000

IrishZeus wrote: »

I think he might have meant just the Range Rover and not the BMW's.

Are Range Rovers traditionally unreliable?

Yep.

IrishZeus

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Yep.

Range Rover off the list so. As much as I like them, reliability is something I want. BMW and CLS are looking good so far....

Max Power1

Tea 1000 wrote: »

It's about 200kgs heavier, but with a bit more torque and still manages 5.9seconds to 62mph, so lag mustn't be that much of an issue! The max torque is delivered at the same 1750rpm as the 535d.

So it is pretty much identical to the 535d at the 0-62 time.
Ok, I retract my statement

Still, the bmw is a better driver's car anyway as it is RWD.

pcardin

Max Power1 wrote: »

So why have you lumped the 535d and 7 series in with that?

well engine lasted allright, electronics did not. Sensor after sensor, day after day. That stupid air suspension. Was driving to meet the client and one side suddenly colapsed, car look idiotic akward. and before anyone starts, i didn't get a "lemon", range is poorly built as such.

So funny that people on forums are bashing Fiats when the biggest junk always seems to be comming out of UK.

and sorry, didn't want to drag BMW into this.

Max Power1

pcardin wrote: »

well engine lasted allright, electronics did not. Sensor after sensor, day after day. That stupid air suspension. Was driving to meet the client and one side suddenly colapsed, car look idiotic akward. and before anyone starts, i didn't get a "lemon", range is poorly built as such.

So funny that people on forums are bashing Fiats when the biggest junk always seems to be comming out of UK.

and sorry, didn't want to drag BMW into this.

So my bmw with nearly 200k km is just waiting to fail? :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

yeah agree on the range rovers reliability, from what I have heard and read, it seems shocking! just bear in mind Op, that the 7 series has more to go wrong with it than the 5 and can be a lot more expensive to repair when something does go wrong... I'm not sure if that applies to the CLS, as I'm not sure whether the CLS is more the equivalent of a 5 or 7 series or somewhere inbetween...

Tea 1000

Max Power1 wrote: »

So it is pretty much identical to the 535d at the 0-62 time.
Ok, I retract my statement

Still, the bmw is a better driver's car anyway as it is RWD.

Well, going by this video the 4 litre was a tiny bit quicker, so I'd say after 60mph the A8 would start opening out a big gap, but they're in different classes as you say, the 5-series is the choice for comfort and handling, the A8 for luxury, but I'd pick an A8 over a 7 Series I think. A 5 over either, and to be honest, maybe a 335d over the 5.

Tea 1000

Max Power1 wrote: »

So my bmw with nearly 200k km is just waiting to fail? :rolleyes:

I think he's talking about Jag and Range Rover?

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah agree on the range rovers reliability, from what I have heard and read, it seems shocking! just bear in mind Op, that the 7 series has more to go wrong with it than the 5 and can be a lot more expensive to repair when something does go wrong... I'm not sure if that applies to the CLS, as I'm not sure whether the CLS is more the equivalent of a 5 or 7 series or somewhere inbetween...

Ya, I've heard more reports from 7-Series costing money than 5's.
CLS would probably be 6-Series and A7 competitors.

IrishZeus

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah agree on the range rovers reliability, from what I have heard and read, it seems shocking! just bear in mind Op, that the 7 series has more to go wrong with it than the 5 and can be a lot more expensive to repair when something does go wrong... I'm not sure if that applies to the CLS, as I'm not sure whether the CLS is more the equivalent of a 5 or 7 series or somewhere inbetween...

Yes, thinking the same thing myself. If I had to choose right now, I would be strongly leaning towards the 535d. The 530d would also suit me as given the type of driving it will get, the lag below 1750 would not be a major issue. (Mostly motorway and national roads).

I'll definitely have a look at the CLS though - I'm not by any means a Merc fan but that car is gorgeous and the performance seems in line with the 5-series, or the 530d at least. My only issue is that it might be a little "old" for me. I can imagine an old banker type in it, not the 28 year old recently out of an OPC and S2000!!

530/535 to beat at the moment....

pcardin

Max Power1 wrote: »

So my bmw with nearly 200k km is just waiting to fail? :rolleyes:

are they screwed together by the same folk? Don't think your's gonna fail tbh if it's done in Deutschland.

Funny thing is tought that despite my sad experience I still think that Range Rover Sport is the best looking suv out there. And I still like the Jags. Just won't touch them for a while.