DART capacity reconfiguration

LivelineDipso

Meanwhile both Luas lines are at full capacity and new sets needed?

Something is very, very rotten in the State of IE.

They destroyed railways in Ireland and used huge investment to do it.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

i live in killiney about 5 minutes walk from the DART station. If i'm going to Town i genreally end up heading up to cherrywood to get a luas. this is abotu 20 minutes walk.



The reasons being



1.) there way more frequent, No matter when I go i'll only have to wait max 7 minutes.



2.) Luas goes straight to St.Stephens Green. so cuts out the walk from Tara st or Pearse St.

I'm trying to understand your logic.

The DART is on a fixed basic 15 minute frequency so it's not that hard to predict when it will show up in Killiney - outside peak hour it is at the same minutes past every hour, namely: xx:03, xx:18, xx:33, and xx:48. During the peak extra trains operate.

How hard is it to plan to get to the station based on that fixed service? Or did you bother to check the timetable?

Journey time to Pearse is 31 minutes, and Pearse to SSG is about 12 minutes walk.

Rather than do that, you're walking 20 minutes, waiting up to 7 minutes and taking a tram that takes 40 minutes.

I find that rather bizarre reasoning to be honest, unless you like walking!

LXFlyer

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Meanwhile both Luas lines are at full capacity and new sets needed?

Something is very, very rotten in the State of IE.

They destroyed railways in Ireland and used huge investment to do it.

I think you'll find that the LUAS is not at full capacity - frequency (especially off-peak) was actually reduced and there are certainly less trams in daily use than previously was the case.

The new sets are needed to cope with the BXD extension.

IE are following Dublin Bus and LUAS in addressing the excess capacity that all of the public transport operators in the capital have experienced.

The Real B-man

I Get the 17:30 From Pearse to Greystones The 4 Car Set The Past Few days has being Horrendus Packed nowhere to hold onto Standing all the way to Bray! Surely they can put 6/8 Car Sets on from 4/6pm on all Dart Services, I understand the Off Peak but Rush Hour! Seems all that European Transport 21 Money went to Waste!

Would a 8 Car Set use more Power Considering there are more Motors Presumably working less to Propel the Train than a Two car set Struggling With 300 People onboard.

Losty Dublin

The Real B-man wrote: »

Would a 8 Car Set use more Power Considering there are more Motors Presumably working less to Propel the Train than a Two car set Struggling With 300 People onboard.

There is a considerable power saving in using a smaller set; a 2 car set will use about half the power of a 4 car set and so on. There is also less wear and tear, cleaning and staff costs for servicing the sets and less lubricants etc. Passengers on board would add fractions to the fuel bill all told.

Each trip uses 1.5 Kilowatt hours (An old unit) per passenger per trip. In 2010 DART used 30 Gigawatt hours of electricity to run it's network so there is plenty of scope to cut down power use where possible on off peak trains.

Just by way of comparison, each trip on a diesel train uses 2.5 litres per passenger per journey. These would be longer trips than the DART.

LivelineDipso

lxflyer wrote: »

I think you'll find that the LUAS is not at full capacity - frequency (especially off-peak) was actually reduced and there are certainly less trams in daily use than previously was the case.

The new sets are needed to cope with the BXD extension.

IE are following Dublin Bus and LUAS in addressing the excess capacity that all of the public transport operators in the capital have experienced.

That's not what the recent press releases stated.

LXFlyer

LivelineDipso wrote: »

That's not what the recent press releases stated.

Indeed they didn't but frequency has reduced.

That much is irrefutable.

bikeman1

Also re the luas, a 2 car DART has roughly the same capacity as a luas tram. To say the DART is a total failure is utter rubbish. I was on an 8 car today into work and it was completely full and standing by Clontarf Road.

Amazing how IE do something proactive for once and people still give out! Would you rather they pushed up fares again to continue to run longer trains off peak that are not needed?

Some peak hour services are too short, but my train home tonight was a 8 car instead of the regular 6. I definitely noted another service which was 8 instead of 6 as well this evening. So some peak hour trains are even increasing there capacity.

As someone who has been commuting on the DART for 6 years straight now and a regular user for 20 years, the current service is good and there is plenty of scope for passenger growtg when the jobs come back. Also it offers excellent value for money and a quick service on the northside of the city where I'm based.

ted1

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm trying to understand your logic.

The DART is on a fixed basic 15 minute frequency so it's not that hard to predict when it will show up in Killiney - outside peak hour it is at the same minutes past every hour, namely: xx:03, xx:18, xx:33, and xx:48. During the peak extra trains operate.

How hard is it to plan to get to the station based on that fixed service? Or did you bother to check the timetable?

Journey time to Pearse is 31 minutes, and Pearse to SSG is about 12 minutes walk.

Rather than do that, you're walking 20 minutes, waiting up to 7 minutes and taking a tram that takes 40 minutes.

I find that rather bizarre reasoning to be honest, unless you like walking!

15 minutes? Maybe during peak hours. I'm often left waiting 30 minutes. It takes longer than 31 minutes.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

15 minutes? Maybe during peak hours. I'm often left waiting 30 minutes. It takes longer than 31 minutes.

Have you bothered to look at the timetable?

The DART operates every 15 minutes throughout the day at those times that I quoted from Killiney. They recast the timetable some time ago to once again be a consistent 15 minute frequency throughout the day. I very much doubt you've wen waiting 30 minutes since then unless there was an incident of some sort.

And per the timetable it takes 31 minutes to Pearse.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

I find that rather bizarre reasoning to be honest, unless you like walking!

As do I, the 145 is closer than the Luas and faster into the CC as well, why aren't you using that?

The_Wanderer

A ramble around Dublin on Tuesday evening to photograph LUAS & some of the two carriage Iarnrod Eireann off peak DART services.
http://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2013Photos/September-2013#!/i-3NW9fzk

The Wanderer.

ted1

lxflyer wrote: »

Have you bothered to look at the timetable?

The DART operates every 15 minutes throughout the day at those times that I quoted from Killiney. They recast the timetable some time ago to once again be a consistent 15 minute frequency throughout the day. I very much doubt you've wen waiting 30 minutes since then unless there was an incident of some sort.

And per the timetable it takes 31 minutes to Pearse.

Real life experiences trumps time tables.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

Real life experiences trumps time tables.

With respect (and don't take this the wrong way), it doesn't look like you are approaching your travel in an intelligent way.

First off did you even bother to look at the DART timetable to see when trains were due?

Secondly there are a range of smartphone real time information apps (NTA, Irish Rail, Dublin Bus and Luas), and the info is available online, that will tell you exactly when trains, buses or trams are due. I find the notion that you are going to the station without bothering to check rather daft considering all of these tools are available.

People in this country need to become more intelligent in terms of using these tools and planning their journeys, rather than moaning about transport without bothering to use the tools available.

I'd also agree about the 145 -v- LUAS - nine times out of ten it will be faster.

AngryLips

ted1 wrote: »

Real life experiences trumps time tables.

that's why there's a real time app

loyatemu

the 15 minute frequency is very reliable - its rare enough there's a serious delay.

the 1800 Pearse - Greystones was operated by a 4-car train yesterday, absolutely jammed from Pearse and people were left behind at Lansdowne. They should be running at least 6 cars on all peak-hours services, and 8 cars for the Greystones trains as they are busier.

ted1

lxflyer wrote: »

With respect (and don't take this the wrong way), it doesn't look like you are approaching your travel in an intelligent way.

First off did you even bother to look at the DART timetable to see when trains were due?

Secondly there are a range of smartphone real time information apps (NTA, Irish Rail, Dublin Bus and Luas), and the info is available online, that will tell you exactly when trains, buses or trams are due. I find the notion that you are going to the station without bothering to check rather daft considering all of these tools are available.

People in this country need to become more intelligent in terms of using these tools and planning their journeys, rather than moaning about transport without bothering to use the tools available.

I'd also agree about the 145 -v- LUAS - nine times out of ten it will be faster.

With the LUAS I leave the house when I want. I don't need to check a time table, thats my point.
If I check the timetable and theres none for a while, I sit on the couch at home. thats waiting.

With regards the bus. I never have change, kids take it all on me the LUAS take notes and gives change.

bikeman1

ted1 wrote: »

With the LUAS I leave the house when I want. I don't need to check a time table, thats my point.
If I check the timetable and theres none for a while, I sit on the couch at home. thats waiting.

With regards the bus. I never have change, kids take it all on me the LUAS take notes and gives change.

For the DART you dont have to check the timetable if you are between Bray and Howth Junction. The are at the same 15 minute intervals throughout the day. It couldn't be any simpler.

Also the DART gives change. PS there is a nice little coffee shop in Killiney station as well. I also dont understand why if you live 5 mins from the DART station in Killiney you would use the luas instead?

ted1

bikeman1 wrote: »

For the DART you dont have to check the timetable if you are between Bray and Howth Junction. The are at the same 15 minute intervals throughout the day. It couldn't be any simpler.

Also the DART gives change. PS there is a nice little coffee shop in Killiney station as well. I also dont understand why if you live 5 mins from the DART station in Killiney you would use the luas instead?

I genreally get there faster if i use the LUAS.

I'm always down the beach with the kids or out for a walk /cycle with them. so frequent the coffee shop a bit.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

With the LUAS I leave the house when I want. I don't need to check a time table, thats my point.
If I check the timetable and theres none for a while, I sit on the couch at home. thats waiting.

With regards the bus. I never have change, kids take it all on me the LUAS take notes and gives change.

This post just sums up how people need to change their habits.

You are still paying cash when LEAP is cheaper, nor using the other tools available. That sums it up perfectly.

ted1

lxflyer wrote: »

This post just sums up how people need to change their habits.

You are still paying cash when LEAP is cheaper, nor using the other tools available. That sums it up perfectly.

I don't use PT often enough. What's the point in leaving credit on it if its just going to sit there.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

I don't use PT often enough. What's the point in leaving credit on it if its just going to sit there.

You are exactly the person it is designed for - occasional users.

ted1

I had a luas smart card. they sent out a leapcard, and i lost it as I seldom used it, so it was €7 down the drain.

Also, has it it more convient?

I have to keep a balance on it, waste of money. Then I have to ensure its topped up, I then have to pay 20C bank charge every time I top it up. Its more hassle.

dfx-

loyatemu wrote: »

the 15 minute frequency is very reliable - its rare enough there's a serious delay.

the 1800 Pearse - Greystones was operated by a 4-car train yesterday, absolutely jammed from Pearse and people were left behind at Lansdowne. They should be running at least 6 cars on all peak-hours services, and 8 cars for the Greystones trains as they are busier.

The Real B-man wrote: »

I Get the 17:30 From Pearse to Greystones The 4 Car Set The Past Few days has being Horrendus Packed nowhere to hold onto Standing all the way to Bray! Surely they can put 6/8 Car Sets on from 4/6pm on all Dart Services, I understand the Off Peak but Rush Hour! Seems all that European Transport 21 Money went to Waste!

This is what goes against your common sense argument, lxflyer. Peak demand, half the capacity.

00112984

Punitive cash fares, à la London, need to be brought in to encourage Leap use.

Cunning Alias

loyatemu wrote: »

the 15 minute frequency is very reliable - its rare enough there's a serious delay.

the 1800 Pearse - Greystones was operated by a 4-car train yesterday, absolutely jammed from Pearse and people were left behind at Lansdowne. They should be running at least 6 cars on all peak-hours services, and 8 cars for the Greystones trains as they are busier.

Same story with the 17:45 one. The driver stopped half way up the platform. I figured it was a replacement with a driver who didn't know what he was doing. I thought peak times weren't supposed to be effected?

Edit: Also, is there anywhere that will give the info on how many carriages a scheduled dart has? Seems like a very simple piece of information that will be very useful now.

Cunning Alias

Currently on the irishrail twitter in reply to someone asking about the 4 carriages at peak times:
"We have reduced the number of carriages to save energy where demand allows"

Sierra Oscar

Cunning Alias wrote: »

Currently on the irishrail twitter in reply to someone asking about the 4 carriages at peak times:
"We have reduced the number of carriages to save energy where demand allows"

There was chaos on the DART at rush hour today, at least on the ones heading southbound. They were so crammed that a lot of people could not hold on to anything when the train was in motion, and whenever it slowed down people were falling all over the place. I saw one person being knocked to the ground and nearly being trampled on when the train came to a pretty abrupt halt. Others were nearly collapsing with the heat despite all the windows being open.

The signal fault obviously added to congestion today, but using a four carriage configuration at peak times is just madness. People will leave the service in favor of bus transport so it wouldn't surprise me if the saving targets slipped. They can say goodbye to their planned savings too when someone gets seriously injured and sues Iarnród Éireann due to overcrowding.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

I had a luas smart card. they sent out a leapcard, and i lost it as I seldom used it, so it was €7 down the drain.

Also, has it it more convient?

I have to keep a balance on it, waste of money. Then I have to ensure its topped up, I then have to pay 20C bank charge every time I top it up. Its more hassle.

Well that really is your fault for losing it - hardly anyone else's?

Given that it applies to bus, LUAS and DART you might get more use from it.

But if you think that needlessly paying over the odds is ok that's up to you, but I don't see your logic.

And where does this 20c bank charge come from? Sounds again like you're not shopping around!!

ted1

00112984 wrote: »

Punitive cash fares, à la London, need to be brought in to encourage Leap use.

Yes, discourage use of public transport. What a great idea