Got clamped by APCOA

siulas

Hello,

APCOA decided to put their discs in our area without our apartments management company knowledge. I went to APCOA website and registered to get a disc. Now, I got the disc, I have put in visible area in the car and had left for holidays. When I came back after 2 weeks it seems that disc fell off and I got clamped. APCOA is now looking for 700€. Can I just remove clamp on my own, or could I be prosecuted because they have my details in their system?

_Kaiser_

Hang on.. APOCA decided to start clamping an estate without the management company's knowledge or approval?

Seems like the management company should be having words with them to me. In the interim.......... what clamp?

siulas

Yes, before posting here I just checked with management company, and they said they have nothing to do with it.

Clamp is just usual one on the wheel..

Should I be seeking legal advise?

djimi

siulas wrote: »

APCOA decided to put their discs in our area without our apartments management company knowledge.

I sincerely doubt that this is true tbh. APCOA and the likes are hired by management companies to police private car parks. They dont just show up on private property and decide to start clamping cars, and in the unlikely event that they do then you (by you I mean the complex management company) would be fully entitled to get the Gardai involved and have them prosecuted.

iseethelight

When the management co say they have nothing to do with it, they may well mean their not in control of clamping. that doesn't mean the clampers have no permission to clamp. The permit thing is strange, when clampers took over here we were given permits we didnt have to apply ourselves.

If you registered they should have a record of it and remove the clamp, if not afaik you are entitled to remove the clamp as long as you don't damage it.

siulas

iseethelight wrote: »

When the management co say they have nothing to do with it, they may well mean their not in control of clamping. that doesn't mean the clampers have no permission to clamp. The permit thing is strange, when clampers took over here we were given permits we didnt have to apply ourselves.

If you registered they should have a record of it and remove the clamp, if not afaik you are entitled to remove the clamp as long as you don't damage it.

I think you might be right, they probably just mean that they are not in control of it.

Anyways, I don't want to pay 700€ to remove the clamp, my car is not worth that much.
So, if I remove it on my own, can I be prosecuted, because I registered for disc on my own and they have all my details?

EDIT: They are looking for extra 120€ every 24 hours. So, if I remove the clamp, is fees going to add up and they are going to prosecute me?

iseethelight

siulas wrote: »

So, if I remove it on my own, can I be prosecuted, because I registered for disc on my own and they have all my details?

OK if you registered they know the vehicle is entitled to be parked there. Permits can fall off, stuff like that happens especially when left for a period. The bottom line is you are entitled to be there if they should acknowledge this and remove the clamp.

If they wont and you can without damaging it then thats what I'd do.

siulas

iseethelight wrote: »

OK if you registered they know the vehicle is entitled to be parked there. Permits can fall off, stuff like that happens especially when left for a period. The bottom line is you are entitled to be there if they should acknowledge this and remove the clamp.

If they wont and you can without damaging it then thats what I'd do.

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear, they want me to pay 700€, to remove clamp, which I'm not willing to do.

renofan

Can you not show them proof you registered before you were clamped?

iseethelight

No you were clear, why wont they remove it for free given your entitled to be there? A permit falling off is no excuse. Their just chancing their arm for a few quid, remember private clampers have very few rights and their caes prob wouldn't stand up if they went to court

siulas

renofan wrote: »

Can you not show them proof you registered before you were clamped?

They know that, but disc wasn't visible and that is why I got clamped

siulas

iseethelight wrote: »

No you were clear, why wont they remove it for free given your entitled to be there? A permit falling off is no excuse. Their just chancing their arm for a few quid, remember private clampers have very few rights and their caes prob wouldn't stand up if they went to court

Ok, Thanks, I will try ringing them again and see what they say. I'm actually willing to pay 120 just to get it off..

Gary ITR

That's probably my biggest problem with clamping, There are people out there who may have been willing to pay the initial 'fine' but for it to be allowed to accumulate in such a way is extortion

In these cases it is also very rare for the clamping company to even engage the clamped person and roll out the same old line 'just pay and appeal'. It's these tactics that have the industry rotten to the core

renofan

siulas wrote: »

They know that, but disc wasn't visible and that is why I got clamped

Whatever you do don't pay. You have a permit and are entitled to be there. This is bully boy tactics they are engaging in. Could you get a solicitor's letter sent to them?

renofan

siulas wrote: »

Ok, Thanks, I will try ringing them again and see what they say. I'm actually willing to pay 120 just to get it off..

DON'T PAY THE €120. You are entitled to be there.

Kenny Logins

Give it a tap with a bolt cutters, it could be loose and just fall off.

muckwarrior

I wouldn't give them a cent. Tell them if they want their clamp back to come and get it ASAP. Otherwise it'll be in the nearest skip.

While I think clampers are sometimes needed to deter people parking like assholes, it's behaviour like this that gives them a bad name.

siulas

muckwarrior wrote: »

I wouldn't give them a cent. Tell them if they want their clamp back to come and get it ASAP. Otherwise it'll be in the nearest skip.

While I think clampers are sometimes needed to deter people parking like assholes, it's behaviour like this that gives them a bad name.

I just called APCOA and they said that they are going to remove clamp for 500€ now. It is ridiculous.

Can I just tell them to remove clamp or I am going to remove it?
And if I damage clamp, is there anything they could have against me?

Sobanek

siulas wrote: »

And if I damage clamp, is there anything they could have against me?

Yes, that's criminal damage. It's their property after all.


However, why not just cut the lock off, and notify them about the storage fee of their clamp that is €399 per day

Caliden

siulas wrote: »

I just called APCOA and they said that they are going to remove clamp for 500€ now. It is ridiculous.

Can I just tell them to remove clamp or I am going to remove it?
And if I damage clamp, is there anything they could have against me?

The fact they are giving you a lower number means that they know you shouldn't have been clamped.

Where are you based? I'm sure there are a few boardsies close by that could call to your car and remove it without damaging it. That way you don't need to pay the 'removal fee' and no criminal damage and APCOA can collect their clamp.

If you are accurate with your version of events (that they had your vehicle registration before the clamping) then I would call them giving a set time and date by which to have removed the clamp.

Tell them that if they don't remove it by then that you will have the clamp removed yourself and invoice them for the costs and will also:

1. Report them to the management company
2. Report them to the Gards
3. Report them to (find regulated body or some consumer watchdog)

Never call and ask them to do something, call and demand they take action by a set date - always more effective.

mullingar

siulas wrote: »

I just called APCOA and they said that they are going to remove clamp for 500€ now. It is ridiculous.

Can I just tell them to remove clamp or I am going to remove it?
And if I damage clamp, is there anything they could have against me?

Ring your management company ASAP and find out if they contracted the car park to be patrolled by a private private clamping firm.

muckwarrior

siulas wrote: »

I just called APCOA and they said that they are going to remove clamp for 500€ now. It is ridiculous.

Can I just tell them to remove clamp or I am going to remove it?
And if I damage clamp, is there anything they could have against me?

There are numerous stories on here of people removing clamps (some quite entertaining) and I haven't heard of anyone being charged or brought to court. Bottom line is that private clamping companies operating on private property have little or no rights in law. They'll do their best to bully and intimidate you but they know that if it goes to court they'll probably lose and they won't risk setting a precedent that could totally screw up their industry.

Dublinstiofán

If you take it off yourself make sure they never find it! If they do you'll be done for criminal damage!

Which will be quite easy to prove if they have photos of the clamp going on, the damaged clamp coming
off and the recorded conversations you had with them stating that you owe them €700, and now €500.

It will be hard to say that you weren't clamped tomorrow with the evidence stacking up against you.

siulas

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

If you take it off yourself make sure they never find it! If they do you'll be done for criminal damage!

Which will be quite easy to prove if they have photos of the clamp going on, the damaged clamp coming
off and the recorded conversations you had with them stating that you owe them €700, and now €500.

It will be hard to say that you weren't clamped tomorrow with the evidence stacking up against you.

Others in here were saying that if I won't damage it then there is no criminal charges, can I damage actual lock?

mullingar

@OP,

Where exactly are you?

There are clamping fairies that read boards that somehow have the magical power to make clamps disappear, but they need to know where you are......;)

keithclancy

You could just remove it and sell it on Adverts to cover the inconvenience.

http://www.adverts.ie/car-parts-accessories/wheel-clamp/3720150

I guess since they attached it to your car it must be a free gift.

siulas

mullingar wrote: »

@OP,

Where exactly are you?

There are clamping fairies that read boards that somehow have the magical power to make clamps disappear, but they need to know where you are......;)

Ok, I see what you're saying..
From all opinions I just think I might want to know that, if clamp disappears should I keep it quite or should I let APCOA know where it could be found?

renofan

siulas wrote: »

Ok, I see what you're saying..
From all opinions I just think I might want to know that, if clamp disappears should I keep it quite or should I let APCOA know where it could be found?

First of all make sure there is no CCTV so APCOA can't figure out how the clamp fairy is removing the clamps and secondly make sure the clamp fairy brings the clamp far far away and never mentions it again. And if APCOA ask if you know how it disappeared you claim you came back to the car and just assumed they saw sense and took it off themselves.

Gary ITR

keithclancy wrote: »

I guess since they attached it to your car it must be a free gift.

Thats the important bit. I told the clamping company that they put the clamp into my possession by attaching it to my car they couldn't argue the point of theft any further. After that I was told to 'keep the ****ing thing'

My advice would be to cut it off then charge storage, they'll never pay but they also won't chase it and it's not theft if you make it available for collection

galwaytt

....on the upside, leave it on as long as possible.

Every day it's on yours and NOT being paid - don't pay it btw - .........it's another day it's NOT on someone elses' and APCOA are 'losing' €120 somewhere else.......

Once they realise they are never going to get any money out of you they'll take it off and try it on the next unlucky sod.

ninty9er

If the disc wasn't visible, the the patrol clamper was correct to clamp, it's not their job to know you're entitled.

I've had to pay a similar fine before, however it was only €25. If the management company holds an open annual meeting for the complex then id be inclined to compel them by a vote at that meeting to use another method of policing parking in the complex, or failing that to use a private security firm to enforce as instructed by the management company, rather than per a clamping company standard rules.

The above, just leave it on the car until they bore of you suggestion also works.

Voodoomelon

galwaytt wrote: »

....on the upside, leave it on as long as possible.

Every day it's on yours and NOT being paid - don't pay it btw - .........it's another day it's NOT on someone elses' and APCOA are 'losing' €120 somewhere else.......

Once they realise they are never going to get any money out of you they'll take it off and try it on the next unlucky sod.

If the OP has the time, i'd do this. I'd almost guarantee it would be gone by this time next week.

pete4130

Take the other 3 wheels off, leave it on blocks and the clamp will be gone in no time.

R P McMurphy

Gary ITR wrote: »

Thats the important bit. I told the clamping company that they put the clamp into my possession by attaching it to my car they couldn't argue the point of theft any further. After that I was told to 'keep the ****ing thing'

My advice would be to cut it off then charge storage, they'll never pay but they also won't chase it and it's not theft if you make it available for collection

In the event that a clamp was cut off and the company decided to bring someone to court, would the person only be liable for replacing a padlock anyway if found guilty?

Gary ITR

R P McMurphy wrote: »

In the event that a clamp was cut off and the company decided to bring someone to court, would the person only be liable for replacing a padlock anyway if found guilty?

My argument would be going on the basis that clamping isn't legal and removing the clamp by means of cutting it with as little damage as possible would be ok. It's yet to be challenged, I was willing to go to court but when I presented my findings which included fact along with opinion they gave up. There was a person brought to court recently but he plead guilty and because it was a district court there is no precedent set

Markcheese

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Give it a tap with a bolt cutters, it could be loose and just fall off.

For gods sake don't do that (not near CCTV anyway )
But if someone who looks a bit like you , with baseball hat covering half their face did it ... Well how would you even know ...

John_Mc

I removed a clamp added by the other company and never heard a word from them. When I explained what I need the bolt cutters for at my local hardware leasing company, they gave it to me for €5.

Cut it, and responsibly dispose of the clamp so that they can't prove criminal damage. You'll never hear from them and so what if you did? The Gardai hate clampers and I'm sure Judges do as well. You tried to be reasonable and they wouldn't so you have no choice.

renofan

siulas wrote: »

Hello,

APCOA decided to put their discs in our area without our apartments management company knowledge. I went to APCOA website and registered to get a disc. Now, I got the disc, I have put in visible area in the car and had left for holidays. When I came back after 2 weeks it seems that disc fell off and I got clamped. APCOA is now looking for 700€. Can I just remove clamp on my own, or could I be prosecuted because they have my details in their system?

Any update OP? Interested to see how this plays/played out.

_Kaiser_

Seems this practise may soon be gone entirely from Dublin's streets

The end of clamping in Dublin city could be in sight.
Legislation to regulate the industry is currently being drafted by the Transport Minister Leo Varadkar.
It could also give companies powers to impose parking fines as opposed to clamps.

"The Irish Parking Association is very actively pushing to get rid of it and move towards a less Draconian parking charge notice where you have a couple of weeks to pay and people can appeal on that rather than this harsh reality of coming back to find your car clamped."

Has common sense broken out at last??

galwaytt

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Seems this practise may soon be gone entirely from Dublin's streets



Has common sense broken out at last??

Extremely unlikely........

And, I'd say they're only referring to public authority clamping: clamping on private property I predict will remain a minefield for some time yet to come.

djimi

What would be the point of issuing fines? Wasnt clamping originally introduced as fines were no longer a deterrent?

I still personally have no issue with clamping; my only issue is with the way that it is currently run. The fundemental basis of clamping is sound; park like a prat in a manner/place where you should not be parking and you deserve to feel the repercussions. With a regulated system, with a watertight legal basis and a fair and unbiased appeals system (preferably with companies that are not run by thugs and cowboys), it is a system that could work very well.

Caliden

galwaytt wrote: »

Extremely unlikely........

And, I'd say they're only referring to public authority clamping: clamping on private property I predict will remain a minefield for some time yet to come.

Even if the private clampers were included, who would you be appealing to only the clampers themselves.

The appeal process is an idiot charge.

Pay to remove your clamp on the basis that you can appeal it.
Lodge appeal to clampers.
"Appeal denied, thanks for the money".

_Kaiser_

Caliden wrote: »

Even if the private clampers were included, who would you be appealing to only the clampers themselves.

The appeal process is an idiot charge.

Pay to remove your clamp on the basis that you can appeal it.
Lodge appeal to clampers.
"Appeal denied, thanks for the money".

Was there not supposed to be some sort of independent appeals crowd to be setup as well.. or am I imagining things?

djimi

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Was there not supposed to be some sort of independent appeals crowd to be setup as well.. or am I imagining things?

Its the only way that it would work is if it was independant.

Unfortunately, having seen the state of the PRTB, it would most likely be a case of pay the money now and hopefully your case would be heard in the next 2-3 years... :rolleyes:

Grolschevik

http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2013/varadkar-publishes-draft-laws-regulate-clamping

Minister for Transport, Tourism & Sport Leo Varadkar has published the Heads of a Bill to regulate the clamping industry, following sign-off by Cabinet.

In line with the commitment in the Programme for Government, the Minister today published the General Scheme of the Regulation of Vehicle Immobilisation Bill 2013, which is designed to reward good practice by reputable clampers, and to protect motorists from malpractice.

The Bill will introduce consistency to the clamping of vehicles, whether in a public place or on certain private lands, by setting up a new regulatory regime for those involved in clamping as a means of parking enforcement.

“There are clear laws governing clamping in public places, which allow local authorities to clamp vehicles, either directly or by contract with a clamping company. But there is currently no legislation covering the clamping of vehicles which are parked on private property. This new Bill will protect motorists and legitimate clamping operators, while penalising bad behaviour by disreputable operators. It would also give motorists a one-stop-shop to seek redress,” Minister Varadkar said.

“The public is well aware of cases where private clampers have behaved in a manner which gives rise to serious concerns. I do not favour an outright ban on clamping on private property, as landowners need to be able to deal with nuisance parking. However, the practice must be regulated.”

The legislation is currently being drafted following consultation with the Joint Oireachtas Transport Committee, which held a number of hearings on the matter and made a report to the Department.

The key points proposed for the new Bill are that:

• The National Transport Authority (NTA) will be the National Regulator and Licensing Authority for the entire vehicle immobilisation industry;
• A maximum cap will be imposed on release fees for vehicles clamped on private land, which will be set by the NTA;
• The NTA will regulate clamping, relocation, and removal of unauthorised vehicles;
• The NTA will license any activities associated with clamping;
• The NTA will oversee a two-tier appeals process, where aggrieved customers will be able to appeal to the operator, followed by an appeal to the NTA if they remain unsatisfied;
• A Code of Practice will be drawn up for clamping operators;
• Measures will be put in place to ensure that the public can have confidence in those operating clamping companies;
• Clamping staff and their vehicles will have to be clearly identifiable.

The Bill is being drafted in the Attorney General’s Office and the Minister hopes to introduce it in the Oireachtas later in the year.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/13794-GENERAL_SCHEME_OF_A_REGULATION_OF_VEHILCE_IMMOBILISATION_BILL_2013-0.PDF

This section stipulates the private property locations on which vehicle immobilisation activities will be regulated and licensed. Such locations will be confined to private land where the public has an invitation to park, explicit or implicit, whether parking charges apply or not and shall include car parks attaching to: (1) shopping centres; (2) commercial car parks; (3) retail or business park car parks; (4) railway stations and other public transport car parks; (5) hospitals and other healthcare venues; (6) apartment complexes; (7) hotels, guest houses and other accommodation venues available for public use; (7) sporting venues; (8) concert and entertainment venues; and (9) special event venues.

In addition to the categorisation of privately owned lands on which vehicle immobilisation activities will be regulated, it is also the intention of this Act that vehicle immobilisation activities on stipulated private lands can only be carried out by a licensed vehicle immobilisation operator who holds a licence granted by the licensing authority, in this instance the NTA.

copeyhagen

dpending on how visible the car is, as in, underground carpark, outside apartment block etc, just go to car at about 3am and cut the thing off, take it with you, 'hide it' somewhere and forget about the whole thing.

dr.fuzzenstein

ninty9er wrote: »

If the disc wasn't visible, the the patrol clamper was correct to clamp, it's not their job to know you're entitled.

I've had to pay a similar fine before, however it was only €25. If the management company holds an open annual meeting for the complex then id be inclined to compel them by a vote at that meeting to use another method of policing parking in the complex, or failing that to use a private security firm to enforce as instructed by the management company, rather than per a clamping company standard rules.

The above, just leave it on the car until they bore of you suggestion also works.

There is a difference between enforcing parking regulations and making sure that parking spaces are available for the people who have paid for them and fcuking someone for the sake of it and extorting money out of people on vague technicalities.
I'm all in favour of clamping, because a lot of people will simply park anywhere and become abusive when challenged, a clamp usually lets the steam out of their attitude pretty quick.
I would also not blame a clamper for clamping someone without a permit, but once it turns out the person has a permit, it's just a joke trying to extort €700 out of them, it's pure Pirates of the Caribbean stuff.
Clamping company is chancing their arm, I have argued for clamping in previous threads, but this is a joke.
They might as well say they want a zillion squillion gazillion.

stoneill

Just cut the feckin thing off.
As far as you are concerned, you went back to your car and it was gone.

Peanut2011

Or cut it off and send them a letter thanking them for common sense and removing the clamp! After all you saw a fella in high viz vest removing your clamp.

mgbgt1978

galwaytt wrote: »

Extremely unlikely........

And, I'd say they're only referring to public authority clamping: clamping on private property I predict will remain a minefield for some time yet to come.

Afraid this does refer to Private clamping TT.
It will give the private clampers (or at least the licenced ones) access to your details (name and address) from the DoE database in Shannon.

By the way, the fact is that varadkar is only now bringing in legislation to NOT make it an offence for certain operators to interfere with a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place (any place the public have access to, including privately owned property such as a shopping centre, apartment complex etc,).
Surely logic dictates that therefore it must currently be an offence to do so until this legislation is enacted.....
....despite several emails to the good minister I have yet to receive a reply.;)