Cars that are "down as 2.0 log book"

TheKaiserChief

Like I just found a BMW 525i that's "a 520 on the logbook".

I won't link the add in case it's against rules. There are loads of these on donedeal.

It's fraud, and their drivers are not insured too.

Why isn't there a crackdown by Gardai on these?

MuppetCheck

They may be an upstanding member of the community and declaring it but at the end of the day it's appealing to some. Bugs the crap out of me too.

ba_barabus

TheKaiserChief wrote: »

Why isn't there a crackdown by Gardai on these?

I think it's meant to be picked up during the NCT. Gardaí can't stop and check every car to be fair.

Max Power1

There are a fair few e46 330i at the moment on donedeal that are "2.0 on the logbook"

Tbh the tax rates above 2.0 in this country are so ridiculous I would do it too if I could get away with it. Also, if you are declaring the correct info to your insurance company but just skimping on the tax, you are insured

Scortho

I know a few of my friends who have jdm's have been pulled etc to see what's under the hood.

A possible issue for the gardai would be telling the difference between the engines.
Unless he's a bmw enthusiast, he isn't going to know.
Likewise with an alfa.
There'd be very few who'd be able to tell the difference between the 1.6 twinspark and 2.0 twinspark.

dgt

ba_barabus wrote: »

I think it's meant to be picked up during the NCT. Gardaí can't stop and check every car to be fair.

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the NCT pick up on this, not their job etc

Max Power1

Scortho wrote: »

I know a few of my friends who have jdm's have been pulled etc to see what's under the hood.

A possible issue for the gardai would be telling the difference between the engines.
Unless he's a bmw enthusiast, he isn't going to know.
Likewise with an alfa.
There'd be very few who'd be able to tell the difference between the 1.6 twinspark and 2.0 twinspark.

Really? That's the first I have ever heard of that happening. Ever.

Sure as you say, what would a Garda know about the differences between a 2.0 and a 3.2 version of the same engine, unless they were motoring enthusiasts themselves!

dgt

Max Power1 wrote: »

Really? That's the first I have ever heard of that happening. Ever.

Sure as you say, what would a Garda know about the differences between a 2.0 and a 3.2 version of the same engine, unless they were motoring enthusiasts themselves!

One time stopped by the tc in my van, he looked in and asked was I making a monster with all those Alfa bits in a Fiat

Some know more than others

ba_barabus

dgt wrote: »

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the NCT pick up on this, not their job etc

I could be wrong but I have heard of them checking the engine codes. Also surely it would show up under an emissions test when they are testing for 2L emissions levels from a 3 liter etc.

I'm happy to accept I'm wrong though as I can't remember where I've read it.

dgt

ba_barabus wrote: »

I could be wrong but I have heard of them checking the engine codes. Also surely it would show up under an emissions test when they are testing for 2L emissions levels from a 3 liter etc.

I'm happy to accept I'm wrong though as I can't remember where I've read it.

My old 0.9 Sei had another 0.9 from another one in it, numbers never matched. Always tested without problems. Same with the hape, there was a number missing from the book that was on the plate on the block. From new I'm guessing!

Col200sx

Whether they're insured or not, I doubt they care too much.

I would stay away from car adds that have that in them.

Ronnie Beck

ba_barabus wrote: »

... testing for 2L emissions levels from a 3 liter etc...

This is what I thought would catch you out more than anything.

Gumbo

Max Power1 wrote: »

Really? That's the first I have ever heard of that happening. Ever.

Used to be done years ago to check Glanza's all the time out my way. But a glanza is straight forward as the turbo jumps out at you.

Gumbo

ba_barabus wrote: »

I could be wrong but I have heard of them checking the engine codes. Also surely it would show up under an emissions test when they are testing for 2L emissions levels from a 3 liter etc.

I'm happy to accept I'm wrong though as I can't remember where I've read it.

Nope, NCT dont check engine codes at all.
The emissions test is carried out against set limits, its got nothing to do with engine size.

George Dalton

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

This is what I thought would catch you out more than anything.

Emissions are measured as percentage so the engine size is irrelevant to the emissions test.

mathepac

I've reported a bunch of them to donedeal.ie, including this one and this one and this one (dead giveaway, JDM car :rolleyes:) and this one. Hopefully donedeal.ie will take action as these are out and out fraud attempts against Revenue and the insurance companies. Drivers with properly insured and taxed cars subsidise these fraudsters.

I sincerely hope other motors posters will report similar ads they find. They are easy to see - search for "on log book" and you'll get a list of potential candidate ads

Ronnie Beck

George Dalton wrote: »

Emissions are measured as percentage so the engine size is irrelevant to the emissions test.

Sound, happy days so. Always thought it was a percentage of a predetermined figure for the car.

Ronnie Beck

mathepac wrote: »

I've reported a bunch of them to donedeal.ie, including this one and this one and this one (dead giveaway, JDM car :rolleyes:) and this one. Hopefully donedeal.ie will take action as these are out and out fraud attempts against Revenue and the insurance companies. Drivers with properly insured and taxed cars subsidise these fraudsters.

I sincerely hope other motors posters will report similar ads they find. They are easy to see - search for "on log book" and you'll get a list of potential candidate ads

As long as they pay tax who cares what it is?? That's like saying they your subsidizing all 1.0 litre drivers. The difference will be made up in fuel consumption in alot of cases. Doesn't affect insuance once it's declared to them.

Sobanek

mathepac wrote: »

I've reported a bunch of them to donedeal.ie, including this one and this one and this one (dead giveaway, JDM car :rolleyes:) and this one. Hopefully donedeal.ie will take action as these are out and out fraud attempts against Revenue and the insurance companies. Drivers with properly insured and taxed cars subsidise these fraudsters.

I sincerely hope other motors posters will report similar ads they find. They are easy to see - search for "on log book" and you'll get a list of potential candidate ads

Why act like a prick? Just because you can't drive a 3 litre V6 doesn't mean everyone shouldn't.
How does this affect you? I'm guessing there must be less than 10000 cars on Irish roads at the moment that have their logbooks present a smaller engine size. Even if it's a 3 to 2 litre downsize, it's €7.8 million in lost revenue. For you it may seem like a huge load of money, but to the government it's peanuts. I'd rather focus on the tax dodgers that don't pay any motor tax at all.

"Properly taxed" - not everyone wishes to drive a 1.2 punto, you know.

There's a saying in Polish that says "A Gardener's dog, doesn't eat cabbages himself, nor lets anybody else.".

YbFocus

mathepac wrote: »

I've reported a bunch of them to donedeal.ie, including this one and this one and this one (dead giveaway, JDM car :rolleyes:) and this one. Hopefully donedeal.ie will take action as these are out and out fraud attempts against Revenue and the insurance companies. Drivers with properly insured and taxed cars subsidise these fraudsters.

I sincerely hope other motors posters will report similar ads they find. They are easy to see - search for "on log book" and you'll get a list of potential candidate ads

It's none of your business really man, it's a little crazy that you go onto done deal specifically to go hunting to report such as this.

wesf

mathepac wrote: »

I've reported a bunch of them to donedeal.ie, including this one and this one and this one (dead giveaway, JDM car :rolleyes:) and this one. Hopefully donedeal.ie will take action as these are out and out fraud attempts against Revenue and the insurance companies. Drivers with properly insured and taxed cars subsidise these fraudsters.

I sincerely hope other motors posters will report similar ads they find. They are easy to see - search for "on log book" and you'll get a list of potential candidate ads

You have little to be at.

Quazzie

George Dalton wrote: »

Emissions are measured as percentage so the engine size is irrelevant to the emissions test.

Are the pass figures not different dependant on engine size?

Sobanek

YbFocus wrote: »

It's none of your business really man, it's a little crazy that you go onto done deal specifically to go hunting to report such as this.

Don't bother man, here's another topic created by this genius.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86046325

Left-wing, nanny state loving genius that is :rolleyes:

Out of pure wonder mathepac, when are you supposed to use your foglights, which lane do you choose on a roundabout, and what lane do you keep in on the motorway?

Max Power1

mathepac wrote: »

I've reported a bunch of them to donedeal.ie, including this one and this one and this one (dead giveaway, JDM car :rolleyes:) and this one. Hopefully donedeal.ie will take action as these are out and out fraud attempts against Revenue and the insurance companies. Drivers with properly insured and taxed cars subsidise these fraudsters.

I sincerely hope other motors posters will report similar ads they find. They are easy to see - search for "on log book" and you'll get a list of potential candidate ads

As mentioned, they are insured if the engine size is properly declared to the revenue. Which in most cases it is.

Please inform yourself properly before misrepresenting inaccurate and wrong statements as fact

Also, have ye nothin better to be at at all?

YbFocus

Sobanek wrote: »

Don't bother man, here's another topic created by this genius.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86046325

Left-wing, nanny state loving genius that is :rolleyes:

Oh read it, I was there too.

George Dalton

Quazzie wrote: »

Are the pass figures not different dependant on engine size?

No. Why would they be? They are percentages.

Sobanek

Actually just to add, mathepac, if you're really that against this "logbook fraud", why not buy these cars and have the engine size changed properly? Try to sell them then

Max Power1

Sobanek wrote: »

Actually just to add, mathepac, if you're really that against this "logbook fraud", why not buy these cars and have the engine size changed properly? Try to sell them then

Or, you know, get a hobby :P

wesf

Max Power1 wrote: »

Or, you know, get a hobby :P

Or a life!

Quazzie

George Dalton wrote: »

No. Why would they be? They are percentages.

Well older engines have different pass percentage levels than newer engines don't they?

I could be wrong on this I always though this was the case though. For example a 2.0 Primera from the 90s had higher emmission levels than a 2.0 Primera from 2005 so they were judged differently.

George Dalton

Quazzie wrote: »

Well older engines have different pass percentage levels than newer engines don't they?

I could be wrong on this I always though this was the case though. For example a 2.0 Primera from the 90s had higher emmission levels than a 2.0 Primera from 2005 so they were judged differently.

Yes the limits vary based on the year of registration of the car, but not on engine size.

Max Power1

Quazzie wrote: »

Well older engines have different pass percentage levels than newer engines don't they?

I could be wrong on this I always though this was the case though. For example a 2.0 Primera from the 90s had higher emmission levels than a 2.0 Primera from 2005 so they were judged differently.

The different limits are afaik based on years only and not on engine size

Open to correction on this

Sobanek

Just to focus on the topic a little bit, I think that as long as those people HAVE THEIR CARS PROPERLY insured, i.e. a 330i with 710 tax still insured as a 330i - this doesn't bother me one bit, as even if no one dodged any tax in this country, the people in the suits up top would still find a way to stick it up our butts. I don't think it matters (as proven with 2008 tax I guess).

If you have a 330i insured as a 320i then you're a ****, and should be shot.

Quazzie

George Dalton wrote: »

Yes the limits vary based on the year of registration of the car, but not on engine size.

Ah. That explains it. I thought it was on both. Thanks for the clarification.

coylemj

mathepac wrote: »

I've reported a bunch of them to donedeal.ie

.......

I sincerely hope other motors posters will report similar ads they find. They are easy to see - search for "on log book" and you'll get a list of potential candidate ads

Complete waste of time. DD gets their money from sellers, they don't care about the buyers.

I reported a car that was advertised on DD and which I discovered had finance outstanding, they didn't want to know. They also recently blocked out the last few numbers on the sellers' contact number which is an anti-buyer measure because it stops a would-be buyer searching DD for the seller's number to see if he has a pile of cars for sale i.e. he's a dealer masquerading as a private seller.

Don't kid yourself that they will do anything about that category of ad that you're getting worked up about.

CiniO

TheKaiserChief wrote: »

It's fraud, and their drivers are not insured too.

But they are insured.
If they purchased policy, even if they declared wrong engine size, their insurer will still have to pay for third party claim.
Obviously insurer can recover sum of that claim from them, but from what I heard here - they never do.

So don't worry. If you are hit by one of those drivers, you will be compensated by their insurer.

Quazzie

coylemj wrote: »

Complete waste of time. DD gets their money from sellers, they don't care about the buyers.

I reported a car that was advertised on DD and which I discovered had finance outstanding, they didn't want to know.

This is wrong. Thanks to the good folks of Boards I was made aware that a car I sold was clocked and re advertised a few weeks later. I e-mailed Donedeal and the took the ad down within the hour as soon as I verified the information I provided.

coylemj wrote: »

They also recently blocked out the last few numbers on the sellers' contact number which is an anti-buyer measure because it stops a would-be buyer searching DD for the seller's number to see if he has a pile of cars for sale i.e. he's a dealer masquerading as a private seller.

That's incorrect too. They might have blocked some of the number, but they have added an option to see more ads from the same seller.

ba_barabus

Quazzie wrote: »

That's lies too. They might have blocked some of the number, but they have added an option to see more ads from the same seller.

I think lies is a strong word.

I only became aware of the "see other ads from this seller" option yesterday.

I didn't approve of blocking the numbers until this feature was brought in and I made my feelings clear at the time.

Max Power1

Quazzie wrote: »

That's lies too. They might have blocked some of the number, but they have added an option to see more ads from the same seller.

I like this option no end by the way, just saying

There was one guy selling a load of cars with different names and phone numbers, but they were all linked thanks to this feature

Quazzie

ba_barabus wrote: »

I think lies is a strong word.

Edited accordinlgy.

mathepac

coylemj wrote: »

... Don't kid yourself that they will do anything about that category of ad that you're getting worked up about.

I'm not in the least worked up about it, unlike the posters above who jumped in to attack me personally rather than my post content - name-calling, attempts at labelling,etc the usual childish, playground abuse from the predictables.

I'm just interested in gauging donedeal.ie's reaction to making money from advertisers who openly admit to selling cars with fraudulent paperwork for the stated purposes of defrauding the State and the insurance companies.

How can I make the statement in italics? I actually went to the trouble of reading the ads posted by the fraudsters.

Given the reaction here in support of the admitted fraudsters, an old Irish proverb from primary-school days comes to mind -

aithnion.png

Loosely translated it reads "You tend to find like-minded insects supporting each other".

YbFocus

mathepac wrote: »

Loosely translated it reads "You tend to find like-minded insects supporting each other".

No your jumping the gun I give 420 every three months for my 530d.
I wouldn't do it at all, but won't go out of my way to hang those who do either. I have better uses of my time to be honest.
So Sir don't be so quick to judge us on here Ok.

Max Power1

Yes and I have my 535d insured as such and taxed as such too, at 1494 p/a - so don't lump me in that bunch either

Max Power1

mathepac wrote: »

I'm not in the least worked up about it, unlike the posters above who jumped in to attack me personally rather than my post content - name-calling, attempts at labelling,etc the usual childish, playground abuse from the predictables.

I'm just interested in gauging donedeal.ie's reaction to making money from advertisers who openly admit to selling cars with fraudulent paperwork for the stated purposes of defrauding the State and the insurance companies.

Again, they are not defrauding insurance if the car is insured correctly.

How many times does it need to be said?

And also, it was not name calling, it was stating fact and asking legitimate questions.

YbFocus

I predict a feedback thread started stating that nobody on the motors forum is paying the correct levels of tax and are encouraging the others to do likewise.

Sobanek

And the Volvo is a 2 litre diesel and is taxed as such at 710 per annum (200 per 3 months) and is currently taxed until 10-13.

As to insipirational quotes:

"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer."

"The federal government has turned policing into policing for profit."


"Monetary policy today is guided by little more than government fiat -- by the calculations, often mistaken economic theories, and whims of central bankers or, even worse, politicians. Under such a regime, inflation of three or four percent annually has come to be viewed as a stellar monetary performance. However, under a more sound monetary system -- i.e., a gold standard -- such increases in the general price level would be seen as wildly inflationary."

Woop woop, an infraction!

biko

Less sniping, digs and handbags please.

mathepac

Max Power1 wrote: »

... How many times does it need to be said? ....

How many times do I need to repeat, "Go read the ads" then respond, as you are defending the indefensible (and the unread, based on your posts). Paraphrased examples:

"1.6 on log book, cheaper to insure.", "non-turbo on log-book, cheap insurance no problem", "1.6 or 1.8 on log book as buyer wishes"

There's a couple of dozen of them that I found with no effort at all. donedeal.ie with their sophisticated searching and vetting tools can probably find more, faster

As for the "get a life", "get a hobby", "none of your business", "leftist" and other remarks, I was always taught that reporting my suspicions of any unlawful, fraudulent behaviour was the responsibility of all the citizens of the state. Maybe non-citizens / freemen / others don't understand this, but I'll stick with the principles I was brought up to believe in.

If donedeal.ie can't do anything to rectify these matters, I'll make the usual calls to Revenue, Gardai, Insurance companies with my suspicions of the cars whose reg nos I have taken and the ads I have phone numbers for.

rizzodun

coylemj wrote: »

They also recently blocked out the last few numbers on the sellers' contact number which is an anti-buyer measure because it stops a would-be buyer searching DD for the seller's number to see if he has a pile of cars for sale i.e. he's a dealer masquerading as a private seller.

I could be wrong but I think they might have added this feature partly because the website was getting skimmed for phone numbers for phishing scams, I got two separate text messages to shortened url links from ads I had on that site.

Max Power1

mathepac wrote: »

How many times do I need to repeat, "Go read the ads" then respond, as you are defending the indefensible (and the unread, based on your posts). Paraphrased examples:

"1.6 on log book, cheaper to insure.", "non-turbo on log-book, cheap insurance no problem", "1.6 or 1.8 on log book as buyer wishes"

There's a couple of dozen of them that I found with no effort at all. donedeal.ie with their sophisticated searching and vetting tools can probably find more, faster

As for the "get a life", "get a hobby", "none of your business", "leftist" and other remarks, I was always taught that reporting my suspicions of any unlawful, fraudulent behaviour was the responsibility of all the citizens of the state. Maybe non-citizens / freemen / others don't understand this, but I'll stick with the principles I was brought up to believe in.

If donedeal.ie can't do anything to rectify these matters, I'll make the usual calls to Revenue, Gardai, Insurance companies with my suspicions of the cars whose reg nos I have taken and the ads I have phone numbers for.

Seeing as I am being warned as a result of discussion with you, I am no longer willing to take part in any discussion with you

zizou_

Anyone know how it works if you tried to get 'proper' insurance on once of these cars e.g. 2.0 on the logbook and declaring it as a 3.0?

Would the insurance company just accept it even though it is different from the logbook - i can't imagine it would be that straightforward