Return to sender no longer allowed

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Tow

They tried this a year it so ago with a big advertising campaign, but it was dropped on the QT. They had forgotten they were legally obliged return or forward onward letters... Just throw then in the box like everyone else.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

SolitaireX

you need to write "not at this address" or something like that on the envelope when you drop them back in the post.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ScottSF

I always assumed the price of postage included the ability to return to sender if it is "undeliverable". All the mail I get from banks or government agencies for example explicitly states to return to the following address if the letter cannot be delivered. Why would they do that if the post office wouldn't support a return to sender option?

Now if you drop it in a post box after writing "Moved - Return to Sender" or something like that, will it actually get returned or tossed into the recycle bin? It would be nice if someone who works for An Post can supply the definitive answer to this one.

I still get mail for people that lived in my apartment more than three years ago - without a return to sender possibility this mail may never stop which is a total waste of money and effort, am I right?

Miaireland

I just write unknown at this address on them and pop them in the post box. They have never come back to me.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Miaireland

The below is from the An-Post site:


Items which are undelivered for reasons such as ‘unknown addressee’ or ‘insufficient address’ are held at our Return Letter Branch when there is no return address on them. 

Lawrence1895

Miaireland wrote: »

The below is from the An-Post site:


Items which are undelivered for reasons such as ‘unknown addressee’ or ‘insufficient address’ are held at our Return Letter Branch when there is no return address on them. 

Which means, they dump them after a while?

Archbishop Desmond Tutu

If the letters are franked the sender can easily be identified by an post from the machine number which is printed on each letter.

Anything sent with printed postage such as franking machines, ceadanus etc can easily be returned to sender without the return address being shown.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Miaireland wrote: »

The below is from the An-Post site:


Items which are undelivered for reasons such as ‘unknown addressee’ or ‘insufficient address’ are held at our Return Letter Branch when there is no return address on them. 

What about when there is a return address?

Dingle_berry

Tow wrote: »

They had forgotten they were legally obliged return or forward onward letters... Just throw then in the box like everyone else.

Is this legal obligation documented anywhere that can be quoted / presented to an An Post official (when met with the usual "' 'puter says nah" response)?

AlanS181824

Interesting issue you're having.

mathepac

nm wrote: »

What about when there is a return address?

For the last 6/7 years I've been returning mail addressed to my former partner delivered to my home. This year in utter frustration I rang the company identified by the "return to" address on the envelope.

I was told that they had no record of mail I re-directed being returned to them EVER! So I suppose An Post use the big roundy file for this stuff.

Shelflife

Prob a bit of confusion here, if mail is delivered to the correct address as in joe blogs no1 toytown then an post have fufilled their end of the deal.

If joe blogs has moved or if the address is wrong then that is not an posts problem. if the new occupant wants to send the post back to the sender there is no obligation on an post to do so.

for years we had the situation where kids moved out of the family home and their bank statements etc would be forwarded on by their parents, this resulted in an post basically delivering the forwarded post for free.

this was phased out over the last few years, now if you mark unknown at address or undelivered or if you fail to put a stamp on it then it will be returned to the sender if known and prob destroyed after a period of time otherwise.

If on the otherhand a letter or parcel is undeliverable or not collected then that is returned automatically to the sender again given the proviso that the sender is identifiable.

mathepac

Does An Post understand the concept of an "addressee"?

Shelflife

They would deliver to an address, they are not contracted to deliver to a specific person.

mathepac

So in a situation where an apartment block has multiple occupiers the post-man just dumps the lot on the mat and not in the individually named letter-boxes.

Shelflife

Individually numbered boxes , but you already knew that.

How would you deliver a letter to shelflife ltd no 1 toytown if it had to be personally delivered as no such person exists?

would you expect the postman to wait until everyone is home and hand each person their post individually ?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Lars1916 wrote: »

Which means, they dump them after a while?

Naturally. They say "if there is no return address". No mind readers are employed by An Post so how would they know where to return them to?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

nm wrote: »

What about when there is a return address?

Then they are returned. We get loads back every week.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Missyelliot2

mathepac wrote: »

So in a situation where an apartment block has multiple occupiers the post-man just dumps the lot on the mat and not in the individually named letter-boxes.

I would only expect the postman to deliver to an address, be it an individual dwelling or a letter box within an apartment building.
If somebody has moved on, surely they need to change their address on all correspondence or pay for the forwarding service provided by an Post, or get the new occupier to resend their mail with a new stamp! It's a new delivery!!!

L1011

Go to a proper post office and ask for some CN15 stickers. These are what the postman uses if you refuse post on the doorstep for instance. Stick these over the address, fill it out, shove in the postbox. Has stopped UPC, Revenue and a bunch of insurers sending me post for former tenants and the dead previous owner of my house.

You probably got a franchised post office trying to sell you more stamps.

Shelflife

MYOB wrote: »

Go to a proper post office and ask for some CN15 stickers. These are what the postman uses if you refuse post on the doorstep for instance. Stick these over the address, fill it out, shove in the postbox. Has stopped UPC, Revenue and a bunch of insurers sending me post for former tenants and the dead previous owner of my house.

You probably got a franchised post office trying to sell you more stamps.

that's a bit of a smart comment myob, basically insinuating that contract offices are trying to pull a fast one.

CN15 stickers are not to given out to the general public as they are for official use only.

If you want to post letters that have been sent to the correct address to a third party (the sender) then you should buy a stamp, its no different to any other form of posting.

Missyelliot2

MYOB wrote: »

Go to a proper post office and ask for some CN15 stickers. These are what the postman uses if you refuse post on the doorstep for instance. Stick these over the address, fill it out, shove in the postbox. Has stopped UPC, Revenue and a bunch of insurers sending me post for former tenants and the dead previous owner of my house.

You probably got a franchised post office trying to sell you more stamps.

What is a CN15 sticker?
Why didn't your former tenant just use a forwarding address (and pay for the service?)
If you refuse post that the postman tries to deliver - why are you giving a person grief by refusing to receive post?????

L1011

Shelflife wrote: »

that's a bit of a smart comment myob, basically insinuating that contract offices are trying to pull a fast one.

CN15 stickers are not to given out to the general public as they are for official use only.

If you want to post letters that have been sent to the correct address to a third party (the sender) then you should buy a stamp, its no different to any other form of posting.

Returning to sender is definitely not the same as posting an item. In this case its extremely obvious they were trying to sell stamps.

I've been given CN15 stickers repeatedly - as this house was rented out for years it was getting an insane amount of post for other people. Actually ran out of them today.

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

What is a CN15 sticker?
Why didn't your former tenant just use a forwarding address (and pay for the service?)
If you refuse post that the postman tries to deliver - why are you giving a person grief by refusing to receive post?????

A pink sticker with reasons why the post needs to be returned.

They weren't my tenants - they rented off someone who is now dead, and I bought the house off his estate. There are no forwarding addresses for any of them.

I've never returned post to a postman directly, but seeing as its an offence to open or destroy someone else's post, why the hell would you take it?

I coincidentally happen to know the previous previous owner (who sold out in about 1993) and anything that comes for her I keep and hand over whenever I meet her. Which isn't often, so there's a stack of it here now.

Missyelliot2

MYOB wrote: »

Returning to sender is definitely not the same as posting an item. In this case its extremely obvious they were trying to sell stamps.

I've been given CN15 stickers repeatedly - as this house was rented out for years it was getting an insane amount of post for other people. Actually ran out of them today.



A pink sticker with reasons why the post needs to be returned.

They weren't my tenants - they rented off someone who is now dead, and I bought the house off his estate. There are no forwarding addresses for any of them.



I've never returned post to a postman directly, but seeing as its an offence to open or destroy someone else's post, why the hell would you take it?

I coincidentally happen to know the previous previous owner (who sold out in about 1993) and anything that comes for her I keep and hand over whenever I meet her. Which isn't often, so there's a stack of it here now.

Re the former owner and you - surely there should be a cut-off point. Are you collecting her mail since 1993?? Seriously- you have gone way beyond your duty...How long more does she expect you to do this?
When will she realise the house is yours?

L1011

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Re the former owner and you - surely there should be a cut-off point. Are you collecting her mail since 1993?? Seriously- you have gone way beyond your duty...How long more does she expect you to do this?
When will she realise the house is yours?

I bought the house in 2012. She's been getting various bits of post here since 1993 although it now seems to be down to one single monthly statement of some kind - wouldn't be surprised if its a bank or similar that are being awkward about changing the address.

I can only presume the intervening owner and his tenants were binning her post for the 19 years. In the 8 months it was empty there were ~70 items in total for them :eek:

Missyelliot2

MYOB wrote: »

I bought the house in 2012. She's been getting various bits of post here since 1993 although it now seems to be down to one single monthly statement of some kind - wouldn't be surprised if its a bank or similar that are being awkward about changing the address.

I can only presume the intervening owner and his tenants were binning her post for the 19 years. In the 8 months it was empty there were ~70 items in total for them :eek:

TBH - I would bin the rest of her stuff. You have done your bit:)

BUT.....on the issue of readdressing- just put a stamp on it! You can't expect someone to redeliver a letter to another county for under €1!

L1011

Nothing is being readdressed. I'm not liable to and hence absolutely not paying for returning.

Shelflife

MYOB wrote: »

Nothing is being readdressed. I'm not liable to and hence absolutely not paying for returning.

The letter has been delivered to the correct address, an post have completed their end of the bargain.

You (trying to do the right thing) want to send the letter back to the sender. Why should an post do it for free?

You are in effect re addressing it as it has already been delivered correctly and you want to send it somewhere else .

trad

How does Santa get his letters?

cgarvey

trad wrote: »

How does Santa get his letters?

Does Santa get his letters?!

Shelflife

cgarvey wrote: »

Does Santa get his letters?!

Of course he does, just because you're bold don't blame it on the postie!

mathepac

mathepac wrote: »

.... the individually named letter-boxes.

Shelflife wrote: »

Individually numbered boxes , but you already knew that....

But I specified individually named boxes, boxes which are not numbered.

Shelflife

mathepac wrote: »

But I specified individually named boxes, boxes which are not numbered.

Ok they deliver to a specified address , that can be 1 toytown or joe blogs house beside the shop in toytown . If you send a letter to joe blogs toytown there's a fair chance that it won't be delivered unless that's the only joe blogs in toytown and is known to the postie.

Zaph

mathepac wrote: »

For the last 6/7 years I've been returning mail addressed to my former partner delivered to my home. This year in utter frustration I rang the company identified by the "return to" address on the envelope.

I was told that they had no record of mail I re-directed being returned to them EVER! So I suppose An Post use the big roundy file for this stuff.

I used to get a lot of mail for the previous owners of my house, but they had left their new address so I used to forward on the mail to them. After a while I mislaid the address, but at that point the only mail that continued to arrive for them were holiday brochures (presumably from some firm they'd previously booked a holiday with). As it was only brochures I didn't feel too bad about not forwarding them on, but I did get fed up with the company continuing to send them. After a while I started to put "Not at this address - Return to sender" on them. They stopped arriving very shortly afterwards, so I assume that they avoided the big roundy file and were actually returned to the sender.

L1011

Shelflife wrote: »

The letter has been delivered to the correct address, an post have completed their end of the bargain.

You (trying to do the right thing) want to send the letter back to the sender. Why should an post do it for free?

You are in effect re addressing it as it has already been delivered correctly and you want to send it somewhere else .

Return to sender does not equal redressing. Never has, never will. Suggest you check An Posts obligations under their USO.

Shelflife

MYOB wrote: »

Return to sender does not equal redressing. Never has, never will. Suggest you check An Posts obligations under their USO.

A link would be appreciated.

L1011

An Post's structure and USO are defined in the Postal and Telecommunications Services Act 1983 (as amended) and the European Communities (Postal Services) Regulations 2002 which is a transpositon of EC67/97. These state An Post's (or any other USO operator, if we ever get another) requirements on how handle post which cannot be delivered to the addressee. Fecking a letter in a letterbox at a given address does not mean it has been delivered to addressee.

The person to whom it has been delivered but not addressed is legally forbidden from opening it or destroying it. Their only legal course of action is to return it to An Post who are hence made aware it has not been delivered to the addressee.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Shelflife wrote: »

A link would be appreciated.

Not every statute or business SLA is posted online!

Shelflife

Carlee Cuddly Celebration wrote: »

Not every statute or business SLA is posted online!

This is true, but in previous topics when I posted figures or rules or laws I was told that it was the accepted norm to back it up with a link or where it could be found.

It also wasn't a glib remark, it was a polite request.

amtc

Legislative inks posted have been superseded by the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) Act 2012 - trust me, I knowwhat I'm talking about.

An Post's obligation is to deliver to the ADDRESS not the person named.

RTS goes to special centre in Limerick (usually) where it is held, and streamed. This can take some time.

The issue arises that items now that are not sent through An POst, of which some bank statements are etc., get delayed as well there

amtc

Legislative inks posted have been superseded by the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) Act 2012 - trust me, I knowwhat I'm talking about. Check the comreg website for the link or irishstatutebook.ie - it's Act No 21, transpansng Directive 2008/6/EC

An Post's obligation is to deliver to the ADDRESS not the person named.

RTS goes to special centre in Limerick (usually) where it is held, and streamed. This can take some time.

The issue arises that items now that are not sent through An POst, of which some bank statements are etc., get delayed as well there