Mobile Phone Credit - Extra Charge

brian_gall85

I've searched and found this thread which has been closed for some time now so thought I would start the ball rolling again given what is round the corner for shop keepers in the coming week

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055846632&page=7

Shops sell credit through two main providers in Ireland - Postpoint (part of An Post) and Payzone. These companies are the main suppliers of Mobile Phone topups in the country and shops are agents for them.

When credit was first introduced into the market retailers where offered the packages with a 10% profit margin on the credit - out of this we had to (and still have to) cover the member of staffs wages and running costs of the terminal, (electric costs and in some cases the phone line costs also).

Now to the point at hand. Last week we received a letter from Postpoint (our supplier) informing us that our margin will be cut again by the phone networks to between 1%-1.5% from the previous 3% rate -a margin cut of over 50% in some cases. It has gotten so bad that the providers of the service to the shops, postpoint in this case, are now actually encouraging all shopkeepers to introduce an extra charge to the call credit vouchers that we sell in order to cover the basic costs of providing the service - never mind making any profit on them!

Just thought I would raise this issue again so that our customers around the country can see where the problems stems from and not jump to the conclusion that the retailer is fleecing them and milking them for every cent. The amount of local stores closing on a daily basis should make this clear too.

If shops do not start charging for credit from next week, you can bet that the price of their impulse items will rise by at least 10% as this will be the only way to continue trading going forward.

I'd like to ask you all to take this into consideration before I see more threads about the shocking price of chocolate bars at €1.25.

Thank you

hunglikeaflee

Simple, stop selling it. If all the shops did it rather than complain about it the companies would have to revert back to the old system if they want retailers.

ScouseMouse

Do you know the cost price of 5 euro credit, thats the wholesale price, is 5.11 as of next monday?

I think stopping selling it is in order or as recommended by the phone credit suppliers, a 50c "customer transaction charge"

It appears the phone companies are trying to kill small topups so they can get more money from the customers !

Shelflife

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

Simple, stop selling it. If all the shops did it rather than complain about it the companies would have to revert back to the old system if they want retailers.

If you lived in a small town or village which would you prefer, a 50c extra charge or driving 7 miles to the next town to get your credit?

Its not that simple, the shopkeeper wants to provide a good service to his customers but also wants to get a fair and reasonable fee for his services.

brian_gall85

Stop selling it isn't an option when it's a driving force for customer footfall. As Shelflife states would you like it if all small shops simply stopped selling a product and you had to drive for miles to the nearest large town to get it, I don't think so.

I am simply trying to bring the issue to light before the usual rounds of complaints hit the airwaves and online come next week.

When you're operating in a small, border may I add, town with a limited amount of customers the option to stop stocking the product isn't a viable one for businesses.

I am simply trying to make it clear that any increase in the cost of phone credit is as a result of Phone company greed, not small business owners.

brian_gall85

Shelflife wrote: »

Its not that simple, the shopkeeper wants to provide a good service to his customers but also wants to get a fair and reasonable fee for his services.

The main problem with this current round of cuts it that we will be trading at a loss if we continue.

.BrianJM

Wages???
Terminal running costs (inc. Phone)???

I'd love to see a detailed breakdown on that.
I would say the impact is minimal.

Why? - the shop assistant will get paid with or without the service being given.

There are a number of services using the terminal so running costs can be spread across them.

If a purchase tax is levied by traders I would expect it to vary in line with the trader's turnover of the product.

…

That said, I'm not a trader, but that's my point of view.

brian_gall85

Auld-Yin wrote: »

Wages???
Terminal running costs (inc. Phone)???

I'd love to see a detailed breakdown on that.
I would say the impact is minimal.

Why? - the shop assistant will get paid with or without the service being given.

There are a number of services using the terminal so running costs can be spread across them.

If a purchase tax is levied by traders I would expect it to vary in line with the trader's turnover of the product.

…

That said, I'm not a trader, but that's my point of view.

At present we earn 3% on a €5 Vodafone top up with a RRP of €5 - from next Monday the same top up will cost us €5.13, how are we meant to sell that at €5 (making a 13c loss) and continue to stay in business?

Out of the current 3% we have to cover the electric that the machine uses and the minimum of €8.65 that I have to pay a minimum of 2 stay per hour. The phone cost is €25 + a month, if you sell below a certain threshold.

As for using the terminal for other uses, there are non apart from a 15c earning per Bill Pay transaction - racking it in aren't we???

This is solely the costs associated with the unit alone, never mind the other costs that the general public don't even consider such as rates, water rates, public liability insurance, bank charges - all of which have to be covered before I even earn enough to get a cent to cover my own personal bills.

As for the wages still being paid with or without the service, it just goes to emphasis that the general public haven't a clue how important the small margin goods are to the survival of stores. Would you shop in a shop that didn't stock, tobacco, newspapers, call credit? Don't think so.

The basis of my post was to try and shed some light on the upcoming charge, but it would seem that the general public would rather see the small locally owned stores go to the wall and let the Tescos of the world fill all their needs....just how many posts are there in the Rip of Thread for that particular store?

Shelflife

Its not a purchase tax, the wholesaler has increased the price, the shop is simply passing that increase on.!

.BrianJM

brian_gall85 wrote: »

At present we earn 3% on a €5 Vodafone top up with a RRP of €5 - from next Monday the same top up will cost us €5.13, how are we meant to sell that at €5 (making a 13c loss) and continue to stay in business?

I agree that buying for €5.13 and selling for €5.00 is bad business. Is it only Vodafone that are going to charge more than face value? (Web site starts at €10. When did they start a €5 voucher? Just curious).
What does your local TD have to say on the matter? especially the proposed overcharging by Vodafone, if correct.

Out of the current 3% we have to cover the electric that the machine uses and the minimum of €8.65 that I have to pay a minimum of 2 stay per hour. The phone cost is €25 + a month, if you sell below a certain threshold.

As for using the terminal for other uses, there are non apart from a 15c earning per Bill Pay transaction - racking it in aren't we???

This is solely the costs associated with the unit alone, never mind the other costs that the general public don't even consider such as rates, water rates, public liability insurance, bank charges - all of which have to be covered before I even earn enough to get a cent to cover my own personal bills.

As for the wages still being paid with or without the service, it just goes to emphasis that the general public haven't a clue how important the small margin goods are to the survival of stores.

As already said, I'm not in business (and my book-keeping days are finished), so can't comment too much on that, especially with no idea of turnover, but would want to break even on costs which are machine related only.

Would you shop in a shop that didn't stock, tobacco, newspapers, call credit? Don't think so.

Wrong.

~~~

jahalpin

Auld-Yin wrote: »

Wages???
Terminal running costs (inc. Phone)???

I'd love to see a detailed breakdown on that.
I would say the impact is minimal.

Why? - the shop assistant will get paid with or without the service being given.

There are a number of services using the terminal so running costs can be spread across them.

If a purchase tax is levied by traders I would expect it to vary in line with the trader's turnover of the product.

…

That said, I'm not a trader, but that's my point of view.

When exactly did the sale of mobile phone credit become some form of public service?

Both the retailers and the mobile phone companies are commercial enterprises and they survive by buying and selling items for a profit

It is unfair of the mobile phone companies to reduce the margin to such a low level that most retailers will actually lose money by selling their product for them and then to suggest that the shops add a surcharge on to the face value of the product to just cover costs is an insult as most small retailers will be unable to do this due to the public backlash that this will cause

It is about time that the retailers, through their representative associations the CSNA, NFRN and IBEC , actually stood up to the mobile phone companies and told them that enough is enough and that if they want their products sold that they should offer realistic commercial terms to the retailers

As the OP has already said, the commissions earned on the other products sold on the terminal are pretty dire as well

Selling products that have margins of less than 10% should be avoided. The products sold by Payzone\Postpoint must have the lowest margins in the history of retailing. While the margin on lottery may be low, although no where near as low as call credit, the retailer has an opportunity to make large bonuses based on prizes etc.

The networks obviously see the retailers as an annoyance and believe that they will never fight back, it is time that they did fight back and tell the providers what they can do with their machines and their weekly direct debits

brian_gall85

The CSNA can only push so far given that a large number of convenience stores aren't even members. Although they do a very good job in bringing issues such as this to light to retailers who would otherwise miss out on such information as a result of trying to keep their business running from day to day especially in the current climate.

The €5 voucher was first launched by o2 and has been commonplace in shops on most networks for several years now. It is not solely Vodafone who are increasing the price, it is all of the networks. Vodafone topups will cost more that the other networks, with Tesco Mobile being the "cheapest" allowing the retailer to earn the "amazing" POR of 0% based solely on the wholesale price - that is before other costs are bulit in to the deal.

On the subject of turnover and the suggestion to simply stop selling, when Lotto products are removed from the equation and using yesterday as an example, Postpoint products accounted for over 25% of Turnover. I challenge anybody to find me any industry or business that could afford to simply stop selling such items.

These figures don't account for the footfall that these products bring to a business.

animaal

If this was about consumers being charged unfair prices, there'd be very quick responses along the lines of "Nobody's forcing you to buy it". I think the same applies here. The phone companies aren't charities, they are out to maximise their profits - just like the retail outlets.

If a retail outlet feels it needs to sell phone credit, and raise other prices to compensate, then go for it. But be prepared for some people to buy the phone credit from you, and go elsewhere for cheaper goods.

In the longer term, perhaps most retailers will refuse to stock credit, leaving it to a minority of centrally-located stores.

brian_gall85

It's pure and utter greed from companies who make billions a year.

I'm all for maximising profit but the retailer as per usual will be getting the grief from the end user.

The most sickening thing about this is that the occurs in the same week that Vodafone just sold their stake in Verizon, at a very healthy mark up, for several 100 billion.

kristian12

As a former retailer i can see both points of view here. Yes the cost to the retailer is increasing and of course you have to take into account all rates, wages and expenses like the phone line. And no you shouldn't really be losing on any product you sell however as you've also said it encourages footfall and thus leading to other sales. Every retail business at some point has a loss leader to encourage customers into the store so unfortunatly perhaps this will be yours if you choose not to add on the surcharge. Not an ideal situation i'd agree.

Now from a consumers point of view if i want €5, €10 or €20 worth of top up i'm not sure i'd appreciate being charged extra for it but i'd probably still pay it if given no alternative, but if there was somewhere else i could buy it i'm sure i would use the place without the extra charges and therefore not need to enter your store at all.

If nobody stands up and says no more the companies will of course keep squashing the margins down because they are in the same business as the retailer, to make as much profit as possible.

brian_gall85

Fully agree with your points Kristian and as I said before my sole reason for posting this was to try and get it into the public domain that from Monday on the €5 and €10 top up will be costing the retailer more than the RRP amount printed on the product.

As for standing up to the multinational companies involved, it becomes a little futile as they are in the governments pocket.

Access

Where i do see both sides of this topic and i do understand what the op is trying to convey, i personnally have not bought credit in a shop for well over 4 or 5 years now... What made me stop buying it was a 50cent surcharge by my local shop on mobile credit. I just wouldnt pay it... To me its like me buying a tenner of petrol and the shop owner telling me its 10.50 because the electricity to the petrol pump has to also be covered... I personally wont accept that point of view.

I am still pay as you go, but i buy my credit via online banking or by text to my provider via my linked debit card.

I do understand that not everyone can do this... Mainly teenagers, but surley parents... As i have done through my own online banking for my own teenager... Can topup their mobiles by a fiver, tenner etc via the online services.

Shelflife

Access wrote: »

Where i do see both sides of this topic and i do understand what the op is trying to convey, i personnally have not bought credit in a shop for well over 4 or 5 years now... What made me stop buying it was a 50cent surcharge by my local shop on mobile credit. I just wouldnt pay it... To me its like me buying a tenner of petrol and the shop owner telling me its 10.50 because the electricity to the petrol pump has to also be covered... I personally wont accept that point of view.

I am still pay as you go, but i buy my credit via online banking or by text to my provider via my linked debit card.

I do understand that not everyone can do this... Mainly teenagers, but surley parents... As i have done through my own online banking for my own teenager... Can topup their mobiles by a fiver, tenner etc via the online services.

Access the surcharge wasn't for costs associated with the transaction, its because the mobile operators put the price up but wouldn't change the price on the top up receipt.

It was out and out bullying from the big companies who when people rang up to enquire about the extra charges would lie and tell people that there was no price increase and that it was just the shops being greedy.

as an aside people would pay bank charges of 20-30c for each transaction.

Access

Shelflife wrote: »

Access the surcharge wasn't for costs associated with the transaction, its because the mobile operators put the price up but wouldn't change the price on the top up receipt.

It was out and out bullying from the big companies who when people rang up to enquire about the extra charges would lie and tell people that there was no price increase and that it was just the shops being greedy.

as an aside people would pay bank charges of 20-30c for each transaction.

I do understand that point... But regardless of who is actually charging me the extra 50cent... Be it the shop or mobile network... I would still refuse to pay it.

But thats just my thought on it.

On your point of a 20 or 30c bank charge on a top up... Some folk (me included) have free banking... Yes there is such a thing! So no additional charges on online banking topups here.

brian_gall85

The annoying thing about it is that it is the retailers who helped build the payg customer base by providing top ups to the general public, but are now simply seen as a cost to profit by the phone networks.

I wish we were in a position to just dump their products but it's just not that simple.

JustAddWater

Stick up a sign

"Due to the wholesale price increase of credit to €5.13 we regret we have to introduce a 50c surcharge"

Leave a number or contact for people to voice their opinions to such as a TD or shop union or even the network customer care line

You will get public backlash but direct the anger where it should be going as much as you can

brian_gall85

Have already handed out the number to a few customers, the backlash hasn't been as bad as feared and my post was mainly to raise the issue at a wider area.

Seems that the continued array of charges and cutbacks from those in positions of power has worn down most people resolve and they are simply happy to take whatever is thrown at them nowadays.

Shelflife

We put up a sign stateing that the mobile companies had put up the cost and that we were passing it on, most people understand and accept it.

One point though, its not a surcharge, the price has gone up, we are simply treating the product the same as any other product in the shop any more.

foggy_lad

brian_gall85 wrote: »

I wish we were in a position to just dump their products but it's just not that simple.

Why can't ye just dump their pruduct if it is costing ye so much? Stick a sign in yhe window of your shop saying that from next week you will not be selling any €5 or €10 top-ups because of the increase by the compabies. But don't penalise your customers because there is always a tesco centra or supervalu not too far away.

ScouseMouse

My local supervalue has a sign up explaining why they are charging more.

foggy_lad

To all small retailers what I suggest is if you don't like it then don't do it! ye can't have it both ways on this or anything else. either stop selling the products ye are constantly whinging about or stop whinging and moaning about how bad ye have it but don't crucify your customers just because ye can't manage yer business!

Calibos

Phone credit is almost unique because it is sold denominational.

Should the icecream man stop selling whipped icecream because the cost price of a '99' means he has to charge €1.50 for it nowadays and 99 should mean 99 cent to your mind?

The phone companies did this to us with the changeover from the old top up scratch cards to the machine printed vouchers. "Hey we're reducing your 10% margin on the cards but maintaining it on the new machine topups, why don't you changeover?" When they had switched everyone over, then they cut the margin on the machine topups too. Deception pure and simple. Every other year since they have eroded the margin to the point this week where without a surcharge we make a loss on some or 0% on the others.

Back then, Internet savvy was not as ubiquitous across generations as it is now. Direct online selling of topups by the phone companies was to a much more limited demographic. They obviously feel the time is right to cut out the middlemen, ie Postpoint, Payzone and retailers and direct sell to a much wider demographic that is comfortable with the Internet nowadays. To do this they force every single shop and not just a few as in the past to surcharge the credit knowing that this will persuade much more people to topup direct with them.

Customers are just going to have to understand that just like they know they have to pay a premium over Tesco purchasing most things from a convenience store for the......Convenience, they are going to have to pay for the convenience of not having to go home to use their Computer to top up.

Smartphone topup while on the go, I hear you say??? For a PAYG smartphone that'll be 99c please when you switch on your 3G Internet on your phone to access your online banking or mobile operators website to top up.

50c is a bit if a bargain for the convenience now isn't it??

Access

Calibos wrote: »

Phone credit is almost unique because it is sold denominational.

Should the icecream man stop selling whipped icecream because the cost price of a '99' means he has to charge €1.50 for it nowadays and 99 should meet an 99 cent to your mind?

The phone companies did this to us with the changeover from the old top up scratch cards to the machine printed vouchers. "Hey we're reducing your 10% margin on the cards but maintaining it on the new machine topups, why don't you changeover?" When they had switched everyone over, then they cut the margin on the machine topups too. Deception pure and simple. Every other year since they have eroded the margin to the point this week where without a surcharge we make a loss on some or 0% on the others.

Back then, Internet savvy was not as ubiquitous across generations as it is now. Direct online selling of topups by the phone companies was to a much more limited demographic. They obviously feel the time is right to cut out the middlemen, ie Postpoint, Payzone and retailers and direct sell to a much wider demographic that is comfortable with the Internet nowadays. To do this they force every single shop and not just a few as in the past to surcharge the credit knowing that this will persuade much more people to topup direct with them.

Customers are just going to have to understand that just like they know they have to pay a premium over Tesco purchasing most things from a convenience store for the......Convenience, they are going to have to pay for the convenience of not having to go home to use their Computer to top up.

Smartphone topup while on the go, I hear you say??? For a PAYG smartphone that'll be 99c please when you switch on your 3G Internet on your phone to access your online banking or mobile operators website to top up.

50c is a bit if a bargain for the convenience now isn't it??

Your arguement about smartphone topups on the go is completely invalid in fairness... Most data packages are included now in your 10 or 20 euro topup anyways so there is no connection or internet cost...

And also a 99 cone was never 99p or cent... the 99 name has an italian history behind it.

So please dont be making up stuff.

Think you just made me more glad i dont buy mobile topups in shops anymore.

brian_gall85

What if you have no credit or MBs left?

brian_gall85

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why can't ye just dump their pruduct if it is costing ye so much? Stick a sign in yhe window of your shop saying that from next week you will not be selling any €5 or €10 top-ups because of the increase by the compabies. But don't penalise your customers because there is always a tesco centra or supervalu not too far away.

If I dump €5 and €10 top ups and the shop around the corner from me keeps doing them do you think people will come to us for their other items and go to that shop for the top ups , no they will just do all their business in the on place.

Shelflife

brian_gall85 wrote: »

If I dump €5 and €10 top ups and the shop around the corner from me keeps doing them do you think people will come to us for their other items and go to that shop for the top ups , no they will just do all their business in the on place.

Wasting your time trying to explain Brian, they have no concept of running a business and no concept of what other people may want or need.

Not everyone has another shop close by, not everyone has a bank account. not everyone has access to or the ability to use the internet. But that doesnt matter because these lads here have and thats all that matters, im all right [EMAIL="f*@k"]f*^k[/EMAIL] the rest of you.

Stop selling the €5 and €10 topups sure the pensioners and unemployed can afford the €20.


Theres actually more to a shopkeeper than making a profit, to the community esp in the smaller towns we provide services that the larger shops wouldnt even consider, free deliveries , credit to people in need a lift in and out to the shop, stocking items that are slow moving because customers have specific dietary needs, personal shoppers for those who cant carry baskets, opening up the shop to help out someone whos stuck to name a few.

But sure when we complain that multi national companies and banks are screwing us over we get the begrudgers telling us that if we cant manage our business to close up or delist everything because the can get it so screw everyone else. I want to use my card for every mickey mouse transaction and increase your costs and hold everyone up because IM ENTITLED TO !

You sound like lads who leave your water running all night because its free and because you can.

Believe it or not there are more than you on the planet and just because you are sorted doesnt mean that everyone else is.Sure we have a bottom line to look after but theres alot more to running a business than making a profit.

But sure ye wouldnt need to worry about that , your all right jack !!

foggy_lad

I never buy credit in any shop that charges extra because even in small villages there is an alternative shop that does not charge. I will always give them my business or wait and get credit when I am in a larger village or town where they do not rip off the customers with this extra fee.


Just to be 100% clear on this, Are ye saying that the networks are selling ye these credit amounts at more than the face value? disregarding all your own costs of doing business like phone line and esb etc etc are the networks charging more than €5 for a €5 top up?

Shelflife

foggy_lad wrote: »

I never buy credit in any shop that charges extra because even in small villages there is an alternative shop that does not charge. I will always give them my business or wait and get credit when I am in a larger village or town where they do not rip off the customers with this extra fee.


Just to be 100% clear on this, Are ye saying that the networks are selling ye these credit amounts at more than the face value? disregarding all your own costs of doing business like phone line and esb etc etc are the networks charging more than €5 for a €5 top up?

Yes vodafone charge us €5.14 for a €5 top up and €10.03 for a €10. The other networks are similar prices.

foggy_lad

Shelflife wrote: »

Yes vodafone charge us €5.14 for a €5 top up and €10.03 for a €10. The other networks are similar prices.

Are most small retailers not part of some organisation? could ye all not just stop selling these products in protest and tell your customers why, the networks will soon roll back as they get complaints from customers. Have ye complained to ComReg about this?

Shelflife

The organisations CSNA and RGDATA are not allowed to organise any boycott under as its illegal and would leave them open to being sued.

comreg and the consumer agencies wont intervene as they dont deal with businesses.

The mobile operators will openly and blatently lie to the customers when they ring up.

Access

brian_gall85 wrote: »

What if you have no credit or MBs left?

I would top up by text... And failing that, i would go to a shop that does not charge above the face value of the topup.

Please dont get me wrong here... I do see the problem that shopkeepers have with the charges on credit by the networks... But personally, I or anyone close to me simply would not buy a topup that costs above face value.

The shopkeepers need to look at it from the customers point on this one... Near me at home i have two convenience stores across the road from each other... One charges 2.20 for a two litre of milk and the other charges 1.89...(same milk) Guess which one i go to, to purchase my few items... And they gain more as i would buy the odd loaf of bread and do the lotto, buy treats for the kids etc. And thats only one example.

Im not knocking shopkeepers at all here... Just pointing out my point of view as a customer.

Edit: i know not everywhere would have two shops across from each other, nor two shops in the same village etc. But its just an example

Access

Shelflife wrote: »

Wasting your time trying to explain Brian, they have no concept of running a business and no concept of what other people may want or need.

Not everyone has another shop close by, not everyone has a bank account. not everyone has access to or the ability to use the internet. But that doesnt matter because these lads here have and thats all that matters, im all right [EMAIL="f*@k"]f*^k[/EMAIL] the rest of you.

Stop selling the €5 and €10 topups sure the pensioners and unemployed can afford the €20.


Theres actually more to a shopkeeper than making a profit, to the community esp in the smaller towns we provide services that the larger shops wouldnt even consider, free deliveries , credit to people in need a lift in and out to the shop, stocking items that are slow moving because customers have specific dietary needs, personal shoppers for those who cant carry baskets, opening up the shop to help out someone whos stuck to name a few.

But sure when we complain that multi national companies and banks are screwing us over we get the begrudgers telling us that if we cant manage our business to close up or delist everything because the can get it so screw everyone else. I want to use my card for every mickey mouse transaction and increase your costs and hold everyone up because IM ENTITLED TO !

You sound like lads who leave your water running all night became se its free and because you can.

Believe it or not there are more than you on the planet and just because you are sorted doesnt mean that everyone else is.Sure we have a bottom line to look after but theres alot more to running a business than making a profit.

But sure ye wouldnt need to worry about that , your all right jack !!

One of the most arrogant replys i have ever seen on boards.

Well done.

brian_gall85

NO SHOP WILL BE SELLING €5 OR €10 TOP UPS FOR FACE VALUE ANYMORE AS THEY NOW COST THE RETAILER MORE THAN THAT. SO THAT'S NOT AN OPTION ANYMORE - WE NEVER CHARGED UP UNTIL THIS MONDAY DESPITE MAKING LESS THAN 3% ON THEM.

Apologies for shouting but are we all now clear on the matter?

On the subject of Milk and bread we sell a 2 litre for €1.19 and sell it with a loaf of bread for €2.20.

JTMan

I assume you can still get €5 / €10 top ups online for face value and in phone stores for face value. This is just going to drive more top ups online.

brian_gall85

Which is exactly what the phone companies want to happen.

countrynosebag

The big companies (from whence the product originates) make almost solely profit on a thing the "sell" to a retailer to "sell" to us I believe.
The companies appear to pay little or no taxes and the end-of-the-line customer (that is us) are expected to pay all costs. We do not exist in the same cosy tax havens.
The retailers charge us as they have prohibitive costs of years only rents and huge public health and safety indemnity insurance etc. Varying levels of profit/greed exist too.
Now, have I got all this roughly right.
We also pay to get to the shop. Rural dwellers (me) have had buses stopped so much that our free bus pass goes unused and trying to get somewhere is an ever more desperate and expensive business. I cannot afford a taxi each way to the nearest villages (only two that sell this product) of about 12 miles each way.
We need to be able to order this via computer. Bear in mind to top up the money is a nightmare too. We also need to have some computer skills. I have tried and tried to avail of the advertised computer courses for older people, also advertised as short and tailored , we are simply able to learn what we need to get by. Bantry refuse outright. Skibbereen INSIST upon a course of a whole year with the exam - this is a qualification we do not want or need. It would be hard to keep attendance, health, transport costs, weather and so on. It would waste education that younger and unemployed need.o
All we would like is the comfort of a telephone, in case - some of us have no-one to ring but the Coalman or a shop to enquire about something as we cannot afford to go and have e no success. So, any suggestions. At present am still trying to get hold of the famous rural transport scheme. It would be the most wonderful thing to me and I would have someone to talk to occasionally. I would not get so frightened. I dread being found like that woman. No phone to ask for help here would be the end of some of us - LITERALLY. Perhaps it is the time to consider a new method altogether. We can do different things. It will.not kill us. Do not stop a monthly debut from bank a/c as my phone calls are about 5-10 euros here or there - perhaps 20 or 30 euros per year, and that is waiting time. It would be good to have it set up so that we could request and the erratic purchase could be debited. Flexibility is the key.
What amuses me, and things are bad for us, is that older people are accused of being set in their ways and I think you may be surprised to find that many have useful ideas to help themselves but only are able to if others YOUNGER, are flexible.

countrynosebag

Spelling and grammar errors are from this android as corrections (?) Seem to mess things around considerably. Trying to pull message up or down to alter is hard. I have tried to correct the above as much as possible. It has corrected already and a mess is made already. I have corrected twice and it seems yo 're-correct (?). Forum fir androids....... any suggestions welcome, well the constructive ones - need to make that one clear!

SimonLynch

Have all the phone companies done this? Paid the surcharge on a Meteor top-up today but haven't seen them mentioned.

brian_gall85

Yes everyone of them, the ironic think it's that Tesco, (a major competitor for a lot of retailers), are charging less than the rest for their top ups to retailers.

rex-x

brian_gall85 wrote: »

NO SHOP WILL BE SELLING €5 OR €10 TOP UPS FOR FACE VALUE ANYMORE AS THEY NOW COST THE RETAILER MORE THAN THAT. SO THAT'S NOT AN OPTION ANYMORE - WE NEVER CHARGED UP UNTIL THIS MONDAY DESPITE MAKING LESS THAN 3% ON THEM.

Apologies for shouting but are we all now clear on the matter?

On the subject of Milk and bread we sell a 2 litre for €1.19 and sell it with a loaf of bread for €2.20.

All my local shops still sell them at face value with no plans to add a surcharge, they are simply swallowing the cost because they know its the clever thing to do from a business standpoint, I would never pay above face value regardless of what it costs you, harsh but true

brian_gall85

They're part of a select few, I almost guarantee they won't sell at that price for long.

I bet their confectionary and soft drinks aren't being sold at anything like the rrp.

Paypoint have adjusted their cost to retailers so that they aren't selling them at a loss, but they have a small agent base.

rob316

I absolutely sympathize with the OP and other shop owners in that regard. No business can survive on those margins or lack of.

For posters who say just absorb the costs how can you? That cost needs to go into something wether its a dairy milk or 500ml bottle of coke. But you cant put that up either as evidenced by the threads on here.
.
The bigger retailers can absorb the costs but the corner shop just simply can not. Does anyone have any idea of the cost of rent, rates, wages, and all other overheads? I'd imagine very little actually do.

Everyone's anger should be with the phone companies not the shop owners who are only trying to get by.

I know some shops absolutely take the piss with pricing and put it down to convenience but a surcharge I think is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Out of interest OP what % of your turnover would be represented by phone credit?

brian_gall85

Can't give you an annual figure off the top of my head, but I know that the day the surcharge started (on €5 and €10 with us I might add), that the total sales for postpoint was over 25% when lotto products were excluded from the turnover figure - and that was a Monday.

As you say the bigger companies can absorb the costs, but we simply cannot sell them at a loss. I'd guarantee that phone credit doesn't even make up 2.5% of Tesco and Dunnes turnover.

rob316

brian_gall85 wrote: »

Can't give you an annual figure off the top of my head, but I know that the day the surcharge started (on €5 and €10 with us I might add), that the total sales for postpoint was over 25% when lotto products were excluded from the turnover figure - and that was a Monday.

As you say the bigger companies can absorb the costs, but we simply cannot sell them at a loss. I'd guarantee that phone credit doesn't even make up 2.5% of Tesco and Dunnes turnover.

25% before Lotto thats hefty. I challenge anyone to run a business where 25% of turnover is run at a loss, its simply unsustainable. Then add in more poor margin products like cigarettes and fuel if you sell fuel.

I used to be involved in the day to day of a very busy service station. If a customer bought say fuel, credit and cigarettes on plastic there was simply nothing left margin wise.
Then when some prick would do a drive off he would be driving away with your daily some twice daily profit on fuel. We kept cigarettes in a locked safe as if you lost any the cost is hugely damaging.
You cant pay the wages and overheads on the "profit" from these products.

What the phone companies are doing is criminal, absolute no need for it.

Hanlor

There is an alternative where you don't have to pay these extra charges. If you have a debit or credit card, you can do it on line or by dialling any of these (depending on your network). €10 Top up costs €10

1740 Meteor
1747 Vodafone
1749 O2

brian_gall85

Which is exactly what the networks and the banks want you to do.