Microsoft to buy Nokia's phone business

quad_red

Not hugely unexpected but an admission that at least the logistics of the partnership have failed.

A smart move or a desperate move by MS?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/03/microsoft-buy-nokia-mobile-phone

Cienciano

Nokia really dropped the ball when it comes to the phone market. I remember when everyone had a nokia and it almost wasn't an option to get anything else.

Francie Barrett

You just have to laugh at how stupid the Nokia board has been.

1. Firstly, they appoint a Microsoft stooge.
2. The Microsoft stooge then trashes the Nokia's own products and drops all their OS's.
3. Nokia's market share plummets, profits plummet.
4. Microsoft then make a lowball bid which the Nokia Board accept.
5. Elop (the architect of the whole failure!) then gets re-hired by Microsoft!

Honestly, Microsoft have shafted Nokia. To put things in perspective, Google paid $12.5B for Motorola - Microsoft on the other hand are paying $7.2B for Nokia's devices division and patents. It's unthinkable that Nokia could be worth less than Motorola.

quad_red

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Honestly, Microsoft have shafted Nokia. To put things in perspective, Google paid $12.5B for Motorola - Microsoft on the other hand are paying $7.2B for Nokia's devices division and patents. It's unthinkable that Nokia could be worth less than Motorola.

I think Google paid that money and it bought the Motorola patent portfolio outright (indeed, that was arguably the whole point).

MS is paying $5 billion for the Nokia smartphone business and $2.5 billion to licence (not buy) their patent portfolio.

So it may not be directly comparable....

AntiVirus

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You just have to laugh at how stupid the Nokia board has been.

1. Firstly, they appoint a Microsoft stooge.
2. The Microsoft stooge then trashes the Nokia's own products and drops all their OS's.
3. Nokia's market share plummets, profits plummet.
4. Microsoft then make a lowball bid which the Nokia Board accept.
5. Elop (the architect of the whole failure!) then gets re-hired by Microsoft!

Honestly, Microsoft have shafted Nokia. To put things in perspective, Google paid $12.5B for Motorola - Microsoft on the other hand are paying $7.2B for Nokia's devices division and patents. It's unthinkable that Nokia could be worth less than Motorola.

.

Microsoft actually paid more for Nokia than Google paid for Motorola when you consider what both companies are worth. Nokia got a good price from Microsoft and in fairness all of the points you've made above are Nokia's own doing.

Nokia's share price jumped 45% after the sale.

jester77

Such a shame, I always had a soft spot for Nokia. Some of their designs may have been wacky but their hardware was as good as anything on the market, and better than most.

They really messed up by not getting into the smart phone business earlier and then getting conned into putting all their eggs in the Microsoft basket. Android on Nokia devices would have been a winner and they would be up their competing with Samsung.

BabyMonkeyy

The windows 8 os is underrated for the best part. It does fall short on its app store but it has gotten better in the last few months. Ot still needs a lot of work to catch up on android an ios.

Eli Nich

They certainly have lost the grip on the market.

Cienciano

jester77 wrote: »

Such a shame, I always had a soft spot for Nokia. Some of their designs may have been wacky but their hardware was as good as anything on the market, and better than most.

They really messed up by not getting into the smart phone business earlier and then getting conned into putting all their eggs in the Microsoft basket. Android on Nokia devices would have been a winner and they would be up their competing with Samsung.

Yeah, they should have gone android when everything turned smartphone. It's gone from almost everyone I know having a nokia, to just my parents because the have no idea how to use anything else.
Had to use my ma's one the other day. Funny reading text messages and having to go into each one individually!

wayne040576

Cienciano wrote: »

Yeah, they should have gone android when everything turned smartphone. It's gone from almost everyone I know having a nokia, to just my parents because the have no idea how to use anything else.
Had to use my ma's one the other day. Funny reading text messages and having to go into each one individually!

The problem was a cultural thing with Nokia. They hated Android and refused to adopt it. I think it was because that while the iPhone was big it didn't really impact on the sales of their devices. But the surge of Android phones over the last few years pretty much ate away their market. They didn't want to adopt android and become just another Android manufacturer.
I was holding out for them to change their mind but that isn't going to happen now. Shame because from a hardware point of view, they have some of the the best devices on the market at the moment. The high range Lumias are better built devices than most and even the 620 is probably the best value smartphone on the market at the moment.

I just just wouldn't use windows phone in its current state. It may change in a year or so.

g0g

Now granted I’m no expert on the subject, but have things not been turning around very much for Nokia in recent times? I know you’re all talking of back in the day when everyone had them, and yes since then there’s been an explosion in iPhones and various Android phones. Disasters like the N97 and facts like Symbian dying out didn’t help. But in recent times I see more and more Nokias around the place again. I’ve moved to WP now and love the operating system. I see more and more people doing the same, and with phones like the 1020 on the way surely Nokia is getting back in the direction it was? It’ll never be like back at the start, but surely that’s simply because there was less choice back then?

jester77

g0g wrote: »

Now granted I’m no expert on the subject, but have things not been turning around very much for Nokia in recent times? I know you’re all talking of back in the day when everyone had them, and yes since then there’s been an explosion in iPhones and various Android phones. Disasters like the N97 and facts like Symbian dying out didn’t help. But in recent times I see more and more Nokias around the place again. I’ve moved to WP now and love the operating system. I see more and more people doing the same, and with phones like the 1020 on the way surely Nokia is getting back in the direction it was? It’ll never be like back at the start, but surely that’s simply because there was less choice back then?

If anything, there was more choice back then, you had Motorola, Sony, Ericsson, Philips, Panasonic, Siemens, Alcatel, Samsung, Mitsubishi etc., but Nokia consistently produced excellent handsets with many of those manufacturers merging or pulling out of the business. These days only Apple and Samsung are making a profit, with the remaining few manufacturers struggling.

Nokia is now 100% reliant on Windows Mobile, and the OS is not up to scratch and a lot of companies don't even develop for the platform. Microsoft are struggling with the platform and they are trying to merge the look and feel with their desktop OS and it's a bit of a disaster on all sides.

Balmer leaving is the best thing for them as they need some new focus or MS are in big trouble.

touts

Cant help thinking this is like the crew of a trawler being rescued by the Titanic. Nokia made great phones but they failed to react to the smartphone market. I was a fan of theirs and had the N95 when it was the best phone on the market. Then the N8 when hardware wise it was at least the equal if not better than the iphone or android. But the Symbian OS was a disaster for them. The software itself was OK but they struggled to get developers to release apps for them. Had they put Android on the N8 or on a Lumina they would have cleaned up. You can argue that Windows is as good as iOS or android but it just does not seem to catch the public imagination so people don't buy Window's phones, so developers don't release apps, so people get more dissatisfied with the software. It's a death spiral and it is just that Microsoft are 2-3 years behind where Nokia are now. The X-Box and Office might keep them going but I can see them splitting off the Mobile division again in a few years and flogging it to some Chinese company willing to buy it just for the name and patents.

Outkast_IRE

Lots of people are changing to windows phone, plenty of interest from ios and android users in the higher end of the lumia range especially.

A lot of people comment on my lumia when I use it in front of them and are actively looking at phones to change to.

I do think nokia/Microsoft/windows phones will make up big a decent bit of ground in the next 12 months.

Nokia hardware is great though have my lumia a year now and its never missed a beat.

murphm45

Somewhat depressingly i was a little upset when i heard this this morning. Not too sure why though, i never really saw a shining future for Nokia, probably more nostalgia than anything.

if anyone is interested in 'what if' scenarios look at the Nokia n9, it used a Linux based meego os and might have served them better. Shame they abandoned it but if they stuck with it they could be bankrupt now!!

i suppose I'll just have to settle for having an excellently designed and built phone with sub par software (I've a lumia 820)!!!!

CatInABox

Nokia really messed up, but they messed up back when the iPhone and Android were first coming on the market. The fact that they didn't have a proper competitive phone on the market until they decided to go with Windows Phone is the reason they died, not that they went with Windows Phone.

A lot of people have said at that stage that they should have gone with Android, but if you want to see what Nokia would look like having gone with Android at that stage, take a look at HTC. Excellent hardware, very little sales.

jester77

CatInABox wrote: »

Nokia really messed up, but they messed up back when the iPhone and Android were first coming on the market. The fact that they didn't have a proper competitive phone on the market until they decided to go with Windows Phone is the reason they died, not that they went with Windows Phone.

A lot of people have said at that stage that they should have gone with Android, but if you want to see what Nokia would look like having gone with Android at that stage, take a look at HTC. Excellent hardware, very little sales.

Can't really compare with HTC, they were an OEM manufacturer and didn't have consumer brand recognition or a large marketing budget, Nokia were a household name with a reputation for quality devices. Nokia would be where Samsung is now, if they had opted for android.

neaideabh

BabyMonkeyy wrote: »

The windows 8 os is underrated for the best part. It does fall short on its app store but it has gotten better in the last few months. Ot still needs a lot of work to catch up on android an ios.

True.... they would really want to get more popular apps out! The likes of Instagram, fantasy football, snapchat, etc. and all the official apps that are availabvle for ios and android!

I think my windows phone is fast, reliable and durable but the lack of apps is starting to bother me! For a company like MS, wouldn't you think that they would use their considerable cash reserves and pay developers whatever it takes to get official apps out! At this point I think, the range of apps on windows phones are critical to Window's Phone's competitiveness!

I am sick of friends showing me their cool new apps on their I Phone/Android and not being able to get them for my phone!

_Kaiser_

neaideabh wrote: »

True.... they would really want to get more popular apps out! The likes of Instagram, fantasy football, snapchat, etc. and all the official apps that are availabvle for ios and android!

I think my windows phone is fast, reliable and durable but the lack of apps is starting to bother me! For a company like MS, wouldn't you think that they would use their considerable cash reserves and pay developers whatever it takes to get official apps out! At this point I think, the range of apps on windows phones are critical to Window's Phone's competitiveness!

I am sick of friends showing me their cool new apps on their I Phone/Android and not being able to get them for my phone!

I don't know.. as someone who's had several Androids and recently moved to a Lumia 920 I'm genuinely curious. What are you really missing? Most if not all of the apps above have an equivalent don't they?

But then I probably don't get it as I'm not a big "app" person (as I am never far from a full laptop), not into social networking, and don't particularly care about camera functionality. For me it has decent email, decent web (surprising as I don't like IE on the desktop at all), no lag and excellent performance with a solid build quality. Anything I'm missing from my previous Note 2 (like an AIB app) has a mobile site (which in AIB's case is the same thing as their app anyway).

I guess it's down to what you expect from your smartphone. What I would like to see I suppose is full SMS integration with the Windows desktop and a decent DLNA client and basic functionality like screen rotation lock and better notifications/background app reliability (both of which are coming I gather) but aside from that I am pretty satisfied so far.

Francie Barrett

AntiVirus wrote: »

.

Microsoft actually paid more for Nokia than Google paid for Motorola when you consider what both companies are worth. Nokia got a good price from Microsoft and in fairness all of the points you've made above are Nokia's own doing.

Nokia's share price jumped 45% after the sale.

Oh, I agree. The predicament that Nokia are in is all their own doing. For the year 2010 (Stephen Elop was in charge for the last 3.5 months) Nokia's handset division made €3.3 billion. Nokia were under pressure, but the transition away from Symbian could still have been managed. However, when Elop made in the announcement in early 2011 that their products weren't as good as their competitors and that they would be moving to Windows, sales and profits collapsed. No one wanted to buy phones with an OS that had been axed. When WP7 finally came out, it was so sub-standard that it bombed.

If Nokia had just went with Android - they would not have been in this position today. Just like they did with WP, they could have bundled their mapping, navigation, and music software, used their position as pre-eminent hardware designers (the N9/Lumia 800 was gorgeous) and leveraged their superior camera technology to give them an Android device that was (and still would be) superior to anything that Samsung have come up with.

Nokia's demise is a real tragedy of mismanagement.

jimmynokia

Nokia going android now,in 2016 or any time would be stupid.

AntiVirus

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Oh, I agree. The predicament that Nokia are in is all their own doing. For the year 2010 (Stephen Elop was in charge for the last 3.5 months) Nokia's handset division made €3.3 billion. Nokia were under pressure, but the transition away from Symbian could still have been managed. However, when Elop made in the announcement in early 2011 that their products weren't as good as their competitors and that they would be moving to Windows, sales and profits collapsed. No one wanted to buy phones with an OS that had been axed. When WP7 finally came out, it was so sub-standard that it bombed.

If Nokia had just went with Android - they would not have been in this position today. Just like they did with WP, they could have bundled their mapping, navigation, and music software, used their position as pre-eminent hardware designers (the N9/Lumia 800 was gorgeous) and leveraged their superior camera technology to give them an Android device that was (and still would be) superior to anything that Samsung have come up with.

Nokia's demise is a real tragedy of mismanagement.

There is no absoluty no chance that Nokia would be up there competing with Samsung right now if they had switched to Android. If you don't know the reason why you shouldn't really be saying that they would.

Francie Barrett

CatInABox wrote: »

take a look at HTC. Excellent hardware, very little sales.

Really? HTC hardware is actually quite awful. Their LCD screens are inferior to AMOLED (which Nokia has a licence for), their Ultrapixel technology is a joke, the build quality is shocking and their phones end up breaking or becoming unusable after a year, their SenseUI customization are clunky and horrible - in every aspect, HTC are inferior to Nokia.

Francie Barrett

AntiVirus wrote: »

There is no absoluty no chance that Nokia would be up there competing with Samsung right now if they had switched to Android. If you don't know the reason why you shouldn't really be saying that they would.

A Lumia 1020 running Android with Pureview Phase 2 technology and Nokia exclusives like Maps and Music would sell by the bucket load. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise.

Your mistake is that you're just looking at HTC as being the only competitor to Samsung in the Android market. Lots of manufacturers are profitable in their own niches. ZTE/Huawei are making money on the budget side. LG are making money by competing with massively speced devices. Sony are competing by making attractive, durable and highly speced phones. Samsung are of course competing by having phones that are just about good enough, but heavily marketed.

boarsboard

its a good move for Microsoft
it can get its os on phones

they paid too much they paid billions for Skype now billions for nokia


will it work out

only if they bring out cheap phones

the cheap china no name phones are getting better,nokia has a lot of patents
so Microsoft can sue apple and Samsung

nokia on its own is not worth much

Francie Barrett

jimmynokia wrote: »

Nokia going android now,in 2016 or any time would be stupid.

I don't understand how you can feel this way. Are you saying that Nokia's hardware design, camera tech, mapping tech is so much more inferior than anything from the likes of HTC, Sony or Samsung? I guess if you feel that Nokia's hardware/software is inferior, then it's best to stick with Windows Phone where there is less competition.

zom

windows phones are critical to Window's Phone's competitiveness!

only if they bring out cheap phones

You haven't learn anything from Steven Jobs, and now he's dead.
You don't have to listen to people, you have to talk to people. You have to say them what they want, because if you start to ask, you never get anything done (and sold). That philosophy is main pathway for Microsoft now. "Change people - not your product". They will work over market until people start to love it (and develop it). That's what Jobs did with Apple.

Dyr

I'm afraid to open the maemo site forums, the nerd rage will be overwhelming

AlmightyCushion

Microsoft need to do an Apple and get all their products playing together in cool ways. They should implement something like Apple TV and air drop and Samsung's sidesync into their products. Leverage their Windows and Xbox install base to push WP8. Imagine having a video, image, song, game or webpage on your phone or laptop and with the tap of a single button it will turn on the Xbox and use the IR blaster in the kinect to switch the source to the input the Xbox is on and then stream it from your phone or laptop to the Xbox over WiFi. They shouldn't just make good devices and good software, they should make good devices and software that work well together.

Dyr

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Microsoft need to do an Apple and get all their products playing together in cool ways. They should implement something like Apple TV and air drop and Samsung's sidesync into their products. Leverage their Windows and Xbox install base to push WP8. Imagine having a video, image, song, game or webpage on your phone or laptop and with the tap of a single button it will turn on the Xbox and use the IR blaster in the kinect to switch the source to the input the Xbox is on and then stream it from your phone or laptop to the Xbox over WiFi. They shouldn't just make good devices and good software, they should make good devices and software that work well together.

And then two years after rolling it out and forcing their user base to take it on board it, they should abandon it like they always do

liamog

Without the the anti-trust regulations in place any more, MS can really start to push the one system everywhere, it's clear this is where they've been moving. Windows Phone, Windows and the Xbox One all share a common kernal and with the Win RT framework running on top we might just see them pull it off.

I think the only piece there missing is the low end set top box. Didn't Nokia used to make cable boxes years back?