How do you feel about DLC?

Generic Dreadhead

thegame983 wrote: »

I think what it has done is made me think about purchasing games new these day. Unless a game is must have like a GTA5 or the New Rome total war game, ill hold off in buying it untill I can get a GOTY edition. I have enough games to play that I havn't finished to catch up on. Mass Effect 2 DLC was done right, but compare it to 3 where unless you got the collectors edtion you had to pay 10 quid for day 1 DLC. That was a disgrace. I didn't buy it but I genuinly felt let down by the game for denying me content. It left a sour taste in my mouth. Basically it's all about trust. Bethesda have consistantly delivered good DLC, capcom need to get their act together.

You my good sir, have won todays internet :pac:
I really need to go back and finish ME3.... Resi 6 interrupted my ME flow

Ross_Mahon

Oblivion horse armor FTW.

Azza

ancapailldorcha wrote:

No, it's not. Any significant assets created before the game should be included with it. It's one thing to remove a weapon or 2 but in the case of Javik in Mass Effect 3, his race was so crucial to the series lore that forcing people to pay extra for him was completely unethical IMO.

thegame983 wrote:

In fairness they did. This was day 1 story based DLC. Story based. For Mass Effect. This wasn't some map pack or an extra gun it was a pretty significant character. Anyway I didn't buy it cause I looked up reviews online and it apparantly wasn't worth the extra tenner, but still it should have been included in the normal retail disk. It's literally withholding content to get more money out the customer.

Regardless of the ethics of realsing day 1 DLC its nonesense to suggest that the From Ashes DLC was essential to the storyline. Having Javik or completing his mission in no way affects the outcome of the main storyline. Its just adds a few tid bits of lore which are nice and all but far from essential requirement to enjoy the game. Anyone who has played the DLC and isn't completely biased against DLC on principal has to have realised this.

SmurfX

Azza wrote: »

Can't say I personally felt Arkham City felt underpopulated and I played Arkham City without the Catwomen DLC the first time round as I had no internet connection at the time to activate it.

Didn't get the feeling either about ME 2. Don't think many complained about ME 2's DLC.

I'm not certain on it but I think the new release thing with Mass Effect 2 for the PS3 came with a comic thing filling you in on what happened in the original which wasn't released on the PS3. So if you were buying used and hadn't played the series on another console you would have had to pay extra just to get up to speed.

Azza

You didn't have to get the comic book to get the back story, the other options where play the orginal on the PC or Xbox 360, read the plot on wikipedia or the Mass Effect 3 wiki site, or watch youtube videos of Mass Effect.

sweetie

I buy it sometimes and often on sale (bioshock 2, dishonored, borderlands 2) and last week I bought the witches dlc for dishonored at full price as I had just finished playing the game and the first dlc when it came out so it felt like a natural progression. The 1200pts I spent on those two in total gave me a game as good as the corvo main game imo.

Grumpypants

thegame983 wrote: »

In fairness they did. This was day 1 story based DLC. Story based. For Mass Effect. This wasn't some map pack or an extra gun it was a pretty significant character. Anyway I didn't buy it cause I looked up reviews online and it apparantly wasn't worth the extra tenner, but still it should have been included in the normal retail disk. It's literally withholding content to get more money out the customer.

It is extra content that is nonessential to the main game. The player has the choice you buy the full version that includes the DLC or you buy the cheaper discounted version that doesn't include the DLC.

What you want is to buy the discounted version and get the content from the collectors editions.

ancapailldorcha

Azza wrote: »

Regardless of the ethics of realsing day 1 DLC its nonesense to suggest that the From Ashes DLC was essential to the storyline. Having Javik or completing his mission in no way affects the outcome of the main storyline. Its just adds a few tid bits of lore which are nice and all but far from essential requirement to enjoy the game. Anyone who has played the DLC and isn't completely biased against DLC on principal has to have realised this.

That's not the point. There was no way to know that prior to the game's release.

thegame983

Grumpypants wrote: »

It is extra content that is nonessential to the main game. The player has the choice you buy the full version that includes the DLC or you buy the cheaper discounted version that doesn't include the DLC.

What you want is to buy the discounted version and get the content from the collectors editions.

By discounted you mean full price retail? Look I don't buy collector editions. For the most part they are extremly over priced tosh for what they are. I would think that the majority of people who actually got their hands on the DLC bought it seperatly and didn't get the collector edition.

Call it what you will but it was nasty piece of marketing on Bioware/ EA's part. By all means make money off me just please don't rub your balls in face as you do it.

thegame983

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

Oblivion horse armor FTW.

Ha!. Forgot about that.

ScumLord

I don't like where it's going, there two extreme examples on PC. Both are sim racing titles, one is iRacing where you pay a pretty high monthly fee and then have to buy cars and tracks on top of that. It's supposed to be the absolute pinnacle of sim racing and even attracts professional drivers. People reckon your getting what you pay for with that though, it's a serious piece of simulation software.

Another one is raceroom experience where you get the core game free with one or two cars/tracks and have to buy everything else in the game. It overcomplicates the process as far as I'm concerned. Even if the prices are justified it just turns me right off the game knowing the kind of messing I'd have to do.

I haven't seen any DLC that I've really wanted to get.

Grumpypants

thegame983 wrote: »

By discounted you mean full price retail? Look I don't buy collector editions. For the most part they are extremly over priced tosh for what they are. I would think that the majority of people who actually got their hands on the DLC bought it seperatly and didn't get the collector edition.

Call it what you will but it was nasty piece of marketing on Bioware/ EA's part. By all means make money off me just please don't rub your balls in face as you do it.

Imagine that, making you pay for things. The Monsters.

Sonics2k

For myself it depends on the quality and quantity of the DLC.

In my mind a DLC is basically what an expansion pack was back in 90's.

Sometimes a DLC can be worth the money, like the Oblivion or Skyrim ones (except Hearthfire, which is meh).

As long as a DLC is not an essential purchase for storyline or completion reasons, then I don't mind and may spend the money if the reviews make it worthwhile.

thegame983

Grumpypants wrote: »

Imagine that, making you pay for things. The Monsters.

Yeah but surley treating your customers well has something to do with it? Good customer service etc? I bought all 3 Mass effects on day 1. Loved the first 2, bought all the DLC for both so I'm more than willing to give these guys my money.

The third game IMO wasn't a patch on the first 2. it was good. Not great. which was dissapointing but that's ok the Godfather part 3 wasn't good but I got over it.

My total experience with Mass Effect was soured by what I thought was an average third game and a somewhat jerk-like policy on day 1 DLC. The net result of this experience is that I will not buy Mass Effect 4 (or whatever they call it) day 1. I will wait for a GOTY edition or whatever and get it for 20 quid.

Bioware/ EA were too set on the short con of getting a quick extra 10 quid for their day 1 DLC that they have now (at least with me) missed out on the long con of getting me to buy ME4 day 1 for 50 quid plus probably another 30 quid worth of DLC.

Treating your customers poorly doesn't have an immediate effect but it does have a long term one.

Sorry for the long response but I'm in work with literally nothing to do.

Randall Floyd

The undead nightmare stuff for Red dead redemption was good, as was the GTA IV DLC. I was disappointed with Harley's Revenge for Arkham City though, an hour and a half of gameplay that added nothing to the main story which is kind of unforgivable given the way the game ended.

Azza

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's not the point. There was no way to know that prior to the game's release.

You just claimed it was lore essential!

Why was there any concern about it every being lore or storyline essential in the first place?

Could of it been to do with the online campaign (not an organized campaign)by gamers who dislike day 1 DLC on principal to make Bioware look as bad as possible. People just threw the accusation on to the internet and it stuck, and it even sticks now when the content has been proven over a year ago to be non essential to the lore or storyline.

thegame983 wrote:

Look I don't buy collector editions. For the most part they are extremly over priced tosh for what they are.

The developers can't win can they?

If they put mostly tosh in the collectors edition then people will say its not worth buying.

Put something of value into the collectors edition and people will say thats so unfair I have to pay extra for this, it should be in the base game.

noodler

Azza wrote: »

Regardless of the ethics of realsing day 1 DLC its nonesense to suggest that the From Ashes DLC was essential to the storyline. Having Javik or completing his mission in no way affects the outcome of the main storyline. Its just adds a few tid bits of lore which are nice and all but far from essential requirement to enjoy the game. Anyone who has played the DLC and isn't completely biased against DLC on principal has to have realised this.

Completely disagree with you there.

Particularly given the story driven nature of the game.

Azza

Tell me how does seeing maybe 1 minute worth of flashback footage of the Protheans last stand and Javiks random lines of dialogue prove plot essential or lore essential. Same goes for the 2 DLC characters from ME 2.

Its like saying you have to play through the ME effect series twice once with Kaiden and once with Ashley to get all the lore essential back story and random lines of lore essential dialogue.

thegame983

Azza wrote: »

The developers can't win can they?


If they put mostly tosh in the collectors edition then people will say its not worth buying.

Put something of value into the collectors edition and people will say thats so unfair I have to pay extra for this, it should be in the base game.

To be fair collector editions usually come with a fancy statue, a map, an art book - whatever. They don't usually come with an extra sextion of the game.

This collector's edition was a way to put day 1 DLC on the market under a legitimate guise 'hey guys missed out on the collector's edition? - just go on the online store and buy what you missed out on for an extra 10 euro!'

C'mon. It was a bit underhanded.

thegame983

Azza wrote: »

Tell me how does seeing maybe 1 minute worth of flashback footage of the Protheans last stand and Javiks random lines of dialogue prove plot essential or lore essential. Same goes for the 2 DLC characters from ME 2.

Its like saying you have to play through the ME effect series twice once with Kaiden and once with Ashley to get all the lore essential back story and random lines of lore essential dialogue.

I havn't played the ME3 DLC but the ME2 character DLC was around 2 hours long and provided you with extra crew members that you could bring on missions and they would add to conversations etc.

Azza

thegame983 wrote:

This collector's edition was a way to put day 1 DLC on the market under a legitimate guise 'hey guys missed out on the collector's edition? - just go on the online store and buy what you missed out on for an extra 10 euro!'

C'mon. It was a bit underhanded.

They could of possibly done that or the content could of being genuinely been developed specificly for the collectors edition. There is no evidence one way or the other.

Had they not given the option of buying the DLC seperately they would of got flak for limiting it to the collectors edition only and would of been accused of price gouging.

thegame983 wrote:

I havn't played the ME3 DLC but the ME2 character DLC was around 2 hours long and provided you with extra crew members that you could bring on missions and they would add to conversations etc.

From Ashes is pretty much the same. The mission is probably shorter I'd imagine around the same length as the Zaeed mission in ME 2 probably shorter than the Kasumi DLC but the extra crew member works the same way.

Varik

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Thought the Arkham City Catwoman stuff was a fairly half-assed effort myself. Inferior filler that just got in the way of the actual game at random junctures. Clearly an afterthought in terms of execution and integration. The game would have actually flowed better if it was a completely optional extra.

Without the Catwoman DLC

you see the result of a decision she made, but the DLC has the moment she makes it and gives you the choice which is only about a minute long.

ancapailldorcha

Azza wrote: »

Tell me how does seeing maybe 1 minute worth of flashback footage of the Protheans last stand and Javiks random lines of dialogue prove plot essential or lore essential. Same goes for the 2 DLC characters from ME 2.

Its like saying you have to play through the ME effect series twice once with Kaiden and once with Ashley to get all the lore essential back story and random lines of lore essential dialogue.

Most of the DLC for the Mass Effect games had, until that point been of a high standard. If I'd not purchased it, I'd feel like I was missing out. The plot of the game plays out in exactly the same manner but Javik is one of the best party members in the game gameplay wise and I quite liked his character as well.

Jim

In general I think the hate for DLC (especially Day One) is a perception issue. Most people think the studio decided to make 100% of the game, then lobbed off 15% of it and sell it separately. That's not really how it works. A studio will organise the scope of the game, the development timeline, the amount of staff it will take and the budget. So 100% of the game will take X staff Y amount of time to make.

Then they propose they make extra 15% of the game and say we now need X amount of extra staff to make the 15% extra. So a separate team is hired to produce the DLC, the cost of this team is justified by the money made from the DLC. If that content isn't sold as DLC then it wouldn't exist as it didn't fit into the scope of the original game. I imagine in the case of ME3's day one DLC the team making it probably proposed "This DLC is actually going to be super awesome, as instead of making it a separate experience like most DLC we are actually putting it lots of effort by weaving into the main story!" At the time it probably seemed like an awesome idea and something which would make players happy, but obviously people didn't see it like that.

the_syco

Battlefield DLC's; prevent community from making their own maps, and charging them for the chance to play company distributed maps? :mad:

Richard Dower

Randall Floyd wrote: »

The undead nightmare stuff for Red dead redemption was good, as was the GTA IV DLC. I was disappointed with Harley's Revenge for Arkham City though, an hour and a half of gameplay that added nothing to the main story which is kind of unforgivable given the way the game ended.

The Harley Quinn DLC did add something....it cleared up a HUGE question in the main game

Harley was not pregnant with the Jokers child, it was a false positive

ancapailldorcha

Richard Dower wrote: »

The Harley Quinn DLC did add something....it cleared up a HUGE question in the main game

Harley was not pregnant with the Jokers child, it was a false positive

I never even thought

she was pregnant

to begin with, only when I started watching youtube videos guessing at the sequel. I've not played the DLC but a statement from Rocksteady or Warner Interactive could have cleared that up instead of premium cost DLC.

Pushtrak

DLC is a mixed bag. This is true in terms of the whole, and even in terms of stuff developers come out with themselves. Take BioWare. There have been a lot of crap DLC for Mass Effect and Dragon Age, but they came out with some brilliant stuff. Like for Dragon Age Origins, they came out with a lot of crap DLC for that. Mostly crap, really, but they also did Awakening which was top notch. If people here liked the main game, but didn't play Awakening, you are really missing out.

Bethesda have done some terrible DLC for Fallout and Elder Scrolls, but Shivering Isles was brilliant. It reminded me of the quality standard of Morrowind.

I think not buying DLC out of principle is insane, to be honest. There is top tier stuff released as DLC. You just have to know what to get, as there can also be dreck they didn't want to spend development time including in the actual game, and just cut out or left to work on post release.

Richard Dower

thegame983 wrote: »

surley

:P

Sorry for the long response but I'm in work with literally nothing to do.

my kinda job!

Chris_Heilong

We would be better off without it IMO.