Applicants for Dublin Fire Brigade were asked if they’re gay or straight

Hitchens

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?


Read more:

http://www.thejournal.ie/fire-service-recruitment-1061816-Aug2013/

LeinsterDub

Hitchens wrote: »

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?


Read more:

http://www.thejournal.ie/fire-service-recruitment-1061816-Aug2013/

Why doesn't the poxy journal open in a browser. No I don't want to download an app

Yamanoto

Hitchens wrote: »

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?

Another brigade of sorts

Gummy Panda

Hitchens wrote: »

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?


Read more:

http://www.thejournal.ie/fire-service-recruitment-1061816-Aug2013/

To see if they were use to handling different hoses

Sunglasses Ron

Hitchens wrote: »

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?


Read more:

http://www.thejournal.ie/fire-service-recruitment-1061816-Aug2013/

Because if they didn't ask and three gay lads who applied didn't get a job some moany PC lobby would have one out about discrimination.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

TheLastMohican

Firemen's ladders can put fierce ladders in nylons

dd972

Maybe they were doing a shortlist for the 2014 Dublin Fire Brigade calendar.

Grayson

It seems to be part of a survey as opposed to selection criteria and it's not mandatory to participate. It doesn't seem to matter if they participate at all. I'm ok with it so long as it's kept completly separate from the selection process and most of all, the results are confidential. It'd be best if they deleted any and all personal details (like name).

It's like those irritating popups you get on certain websites "Would you like to take a few minutes to complete a survey"

The OP makes it sound like a selection criteria.

Cody Pomeray

Fire PC Brigade fail.

B.A._Baracus

Shouldnt be asking that question. It's personal business.

I've had alot of jobs in my time and the one job that actually asked me this question was Borders in the Blanchardstown Shopping Centre. But they phrased it as "What type are you sexually attracted to: A, members of the opposite sex B, members of the same sex or C, both"

Asking the question was wrong but the way they phrased it was even more wrong too :pac:

MrStuffins

"Gay? I'M FLAAAAAMING!"

Muise...

Grayson wrote: »

It seems to be part of a survey as opposed to selection criteria and it's not mandatory to participate. It doesn't seem to matter if they participate at all. I'm ok with it so long as it's kept completly separate from the selection process and most of all, the results are confidential. It'd be best if they deleted any and all personal details (like name).

It's like those irritating popups you get on certain websites "Would you like to take a few minutes to complete a survey"

The OP makes it sound like a selection criteria.

ah don't be getting in the way with your facts.

From the article:

"Love said that applicants are given the option of whether or not to complete the questions, and said that the details aren’t being passed on to Dublin City Council, who will make the final decision on who to hire."

Love, eh?

Elbaston

They were just looking for someone to be the fireman for their village people dedication band.

osarusan

Hitchens wrote: »

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?


Read more:

http://www.thejournal.ie/fire-service-recruitment-1061816-Aug2013/

The answer is right there in the article you linked to. Somehow you missed it, and started a thread instead.

Hitchens

osarusan wrote: »

The answer is right there in the article you linked to. Somehow you missed it, and started a thread instead.

1. I didn't miss anything.

2. Have you some problem with me?

osarusan

Hitchens wrote: »

1. I didn't miss anything.

You missed the answers to both of the questions you asked in the OP. They're right there in the article.

Hitchens

osarusan wrote: »

You missed the answers to both of the questions you asked in the OP. They're right there in the article.

No, there are certainly are not any logical answers, in my view

osarusan

Hitchens wrote: »

No, there are certainly are not any logical answers, in my view

That's not what your OP covers though, is it?

Hitchens

osarusan wrote: »

That's not what your OP covers though, is it?

Ok, here are my questions again:

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman? What logical answer was given?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?
What is the point of putting such a question in the first place?


One of the statements made by Mr Love was “We wouldn’t normally be involved in recruiting for the Fire Brigade so maybe that’s why this question is coming up,” he told TheJournal.ie. Does that make sense?

Nodin

Hitchens wrote: »

1. I didn't miss anything.

2. Have you some problem with me?

Yes you did.


Yep.

T-K-O

Apparently its for training purposes. Straight men rescue cats, Gay men rescue dogs.

Nodin

Hitchens wrote: »

Ok, here are my questions again:

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

It doesn't. That's not why they're asking.

Hitchens wrote: »

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?
What is the point of putting such a question in the first place?

Data gathering, demographics etc. Its in the article you linked to in your OP.

Muise...

Hitchens wrote: »

Ok, here are my questions again:

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman? What logical answer was given?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?
What is the point of putting such a question in the first place?

It doesn't.

People interested in the demographics of State employees.

Muise...

SNAP! Nodin.:)

osarusan

Hitchens wrote: »

Ok, here are my questions again:

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman? What logical answer was given?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?
What is the point of putting such a question in the first place?

The logical answer is that it has nothing to do with being firemen or women. The applicants' (voluntary) answers to the question never gets to those making decisions about who gets the jobs.

To investigate whether or not the ratios of applicants from any particular groups (women, black people, gay people) in society remain stable throughout stages of the application and hiring process. In some cases, a question needs to be asked to determine if a person is a member of a particular group*. Effectively, I'd imagine, to investigate any potential discrimination.

It's right there in the article.


*Not sure if group is the right word, but hopefully it serves the purpose.

Zen65

Hitchens wrote: »

No, there are certainly are not any logical answers, in my view

There were logical explanations in the article, and either you missed them or you didn't understand them, or perhaps you wanted to start a thread with a misleading but sensationalist heading (like a true Irish journalist).

Perhaps if you researched the way in which state organisations monitor the recruitment of minority groups you'd understand better why these questions get asked.

Similar questions were asked until recently when people hired in Northern Ireland in relation to religious background (and may still be, I'm just unsure of current policy). The information could not be used by the employer, but it served to ensure that discrimination in employment was not taking place.

Z

Hitchens

osarusan wrote: »

The logical answer is that it has nothing to do with being firemen or women. The applicants' (voluntary) answers to the question never gets to those making decisions about who gets the jobs.

To investigate whether or not the ratios of applicants from any particular groups (women, black people, gay people) in society remain stable throughout stages of the application and hiring process. In some cases, a question needs to be asked to determine if a person is a member of a particular group*. Effectively, I'd imagine, to investigate any potential discrimination.

It's right there in the article.


*Not sure if group is the right word, but hopefully it serves the purpose.

Love said that applicants are given the option of whether or not to complete the questions

so if some, or all of the successful applicants take the option not to answer the questions, where does that leave the 'investigation' ?

osarusan

Hitchens wrote: »

Love said that applicants are given the option of whether or not to complete the questions

so if some, or all of the successful applicants take the option not to answer the questions, where does that leave the 'investigation' ?

I guess they've decided that they can't or shouldn't force applicants to answer these questions if they don't want to, but feel that whatever data they can get is better than none.

The swines.

Nodin

Hitchens wrote: »

Love said that applicants are given the option of whether or not to complete the questions

so if some, or all of the successful applicants take the option not to answer the questions, where does that leave the 'investigation' ?

...with less information than they'd like, but with more than they would have garnered by not asking at all.

Hitchens

osarusan wrote: »

but feel that whatever data they can get is better than none.

???????

AtomicHorror

Hitchens wrote: »

???????

Sarcasm confuses you too?

tritium

Hitchens wrote: »

Love said that applicants are given the option of whether or not to complete the questions

so if some, or all of the successful applicants take the option not to answer the questions, where does that leave the 'investigation' ?

Most surveys have a degree of non response, its often common to get a response rate in the low thirty percents. There are many well established statistical techniques to address this issue.

Short answer: its not really a problem

Wacker The Attacker

T-K-O wrote: »

Apparently its for training purposes. Straight men rescue cats, Gay men rescue dogs.

Chihuahuas and poodles

--Kaiser--

Anyone made a joke about sliding down a greasy pole yet?

McDermotX

A complete and utter non-story.

A first for After Hours.

WoollyRedHat

McDermotX wrote: »

A complete and utter non-story.

A first for After Hours.

You stole my family YOU BASTARD!!!!!!!!

Jester252

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill

Bylar Bear

The fire brigade is only looking for real flamers to join

paddy147

Hitchens wrote: »

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?


Read more:

http://www.thejournal.ie/fire-service-recruitment-1061816-Aug2013/

Sliding down the Firemans Pole?????:pac::pac::pac:

paddy147

Bylar Bear wrote: »

The fire brigade is only looking for real flamers to join

Thats Burger King.:pac::pac::D

Caonima

paddy147 wrote: »

Sliding down the Firemans Pole?????:pac::pac::pac:

****, that joke was MINE :mad:

AnonoBoy

Something something flaming something something.


Oh fill in your own obvious joke people. I'm a busy man.

Caonima

Something about helmets something something....

Hoses....

Did someone call for a something something... big hose, maybe

Man in uniform...

Sir Humphrey Appleby

:rolleyes:

Hitchens wrote: »

Why would that have anything to do with being fireman or woman?

Who thought that it would be a good idea to ask such a question?


Read more:

http://www.thejournal.ie/fire-service-recruitment-1061816-Aug2013/

If you bothered to read the article, that you yourself quote then the answer would be obvious.:mad:
"Head of Corporate Services at the Public Appointments Service Padraig Love explained that the questions are asked as part of an ongoing equality monitoring process being carried out by the body."
Seriously misleading and sensationalist thread title
Quelle suprise!

--Kaiser--

paddy147 wrote: »

Sliding down the Firemans Pole?????:pac::pac::pac:

Caonima wrote: »

****, that joke was MINE :mad:

Ahem...

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Anyone made a joke about sliding down a greasy pole yet?

Caonima

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Ahem...

Apologies.

THOSE jokes were mine

UCDVet

Dammed if you do....
Dammed if you don't....

If you ignore things like race, gender, and sexual preference - it is very possible that you'd end up with a non-diverse workforce. It won't be long before someone takes objection to it and calls out your organization for being discriminatory against that minority group.

If you 'keep tabs' on your diversity, by giving voluntary surveys to see if your workforce is not representative of the general population....it won't be long before someone takes objection to it and calls out your organization for being discriminatory against minority groups.

Caonima

UCDVet wrote: »

Dammed if you do....
Dammed if you don't....

If you ignore things like race, gender, and sexual preference - it is very possible that you'd end up with a non-diverse workforce. It won't be long before someone takes objection to it and calls out your organization for being discriminatory against that minority group.

If you 'keep tabs' on your diversity, by giving voluntary surveys to see if your workforce is not representative of the general population....it won't be long before someone takes objection to it and calls out your organization for being discriminatory against minority groups.

I doubt a fire cares who or what you are when you attempt to extinguish it :pac:

UCDVet

Caonima wrote: »

I doubt a fire cares who or what you are when you attempt to extinguish it :pac:

No, of course not. The fire doesn't matter.

But *people* care. 100% true story....while in Uni, I worked Tech support for the University. We had lots of applicants and virtually all of them were guys. We hired the most qualified people and we ended up with an all male workforce.

And every semester we'd get a handful of complaints from people saying that it was unfair and sexist. Unfair and sexist...simply because we didn't have women. Most semesters we had *zero* female applicants (but we didn't have a checkbox for gender, so we couldn't be sure if it was a unisex name or a foreign name).

Caonima

UCDVet wrote: »

No, of course not. The fire doesn't matter.

But *people* care. 100% true story....while in Uni, I worked Tech support for the University. We had lots of applicants and virtually all of them were guys. We hired the most qualified people and we ended up with an all male workforce.

And every semester we'd get a handful of complaints from people saying that it was unfair and sexist. Unfair and sexist...simply because we didn't have women. Most semesters we had *zero* female applicants (but we didn't have a checkbox for gender, so we couldn't be sure if it was a unisex name or a foreign name).

Perfect example of the demographic that applies. Obviously if you pushed for female applicants, the guys would be up in arms (on Call of Duty ). Can't win.

bbm1

if you apply for any job in the north you have to say what sexuality you are along with religion, age and political opinion. Its to ensure fair employment so cant see the big deal.