Why is there no cure for male pattern baldness yet?

Ihatecuddles-old

**Vai** wrote: »

Ewwww. He must be very understanding! I would not be pleased. Luckily I have the thickest, most luscious hair possible.....ladies.

I think it annoys him but he's too nice to say it :P

rockbeast

Wibbs wrote: »

IE Black African lad shaves head, 9 times outa 10 looks cool, White European does and it's toss a coin time on how it might look.

At the risk of sounding racist, and with the best intentions, a lot of black men look better without (untreated) hair.

As a white fellow, I aspire to someday looking like Phil/Grant Mitchell.

the_syco

Wibbs wrote: »

Well one could argue it's a genetic condition of the hair producing follicles that renders them sensitive to testosterone and causes them to cease production. Given that some men never go bald(some entire groups never do EG Amazonian Indians. They don't even go grey), it's possible if you went back 60,000 years men never went bald, so it's a "fault" in our DNA.

Apart from testosterone, the other culprit may be the sun, or lack thereof; men in the northern hemisphere get bald more often than those in Asia and China, etc.

Canis Lupus

blaze1 wrote: »

As I was told when I was 17, you'll never see a bald man it doesn't suit. :-)

You haven't met my cousin, poor sod went bald from an early age, looks like a cancer patient.

Galwayguy35

Have to say I never knew baldness affected women as well, must be even harder on then because at least we can shave it off even if it's not the ideal situation.

Gummy Panda

I'll never go bald.

Stinger baldies

Tom M

Wibbs wrote: »

This I'd imagine. Any guy, gal or company that figures out a sure way of reversing, even just halting male pattern baldness(can happen with women too) would be worth billions overnight. This suggests it's really really difficult, a multifactorial condition where just one "cure" won't cut it(not unlike the umbrella of diseases called "cancer". There'll never by one cure for that, but loads of little cures depending on the disease). Then they might find they have one that works for men of broadly Asian background say, but won't work on Europeans. Plus it doesn't seem to follow the same pattern in men. Some guys go on the crown, some at the temples, some go at both sides, some go thin all over. There may be a difference in what causes this. I do recall reading somewhere that crown thinning/general all over loss is more down to environmental factors with some genetic stuff whereas frontal loss in purely genetic.

Well one could argue it's a genetic condition of the hair producing follicles that renders them sensitive to testosterone and causes them to cease production. Given that some men never go bald(some entire groups never do EG Amazonian Indians. They don't even go grey), it's possible if you went back 60,000 years men never went bald, so it's a "fault" in our DNA. That would be an interesting area of research IMH, to see when and possibly where this gene of set of genes first arose in our species. For it to propagate it must have had selection pressure. This may have been sexual, or maybe there is an immuno response that is favoured? On that score I also recall reading that bald headed men have more inflammation in the scalp areas that are affected so maybe? Or we might find that although the propensity was there, the result comes about because of environmental changes over time. Kinda like type 2 diabetes. Yes there is a strong genetic component, yet hunter gatherers almost never suffer from the condition, so environment, especially over time and generations* causes more of the disease process. They seem to go bald at a much lesser rate and at greater ages too, whereas your average group of a hundred Irish blokes at 25 I'd reckon at least a third are thinning, by 40 I'd reckon nearer two thirds.

Oh that's soooo untrue. Some men have really silly looking bald pates, pointy lumpy heads and such. You can see this with different populations. IE Black African lad shaves head, 9 times outa 10 looks cool, White European does and it's toss a coin time on how it might look.






*I'm not going all Lamarckian here well... I would suspect that mothers(and possibly fathers) exposed to high sugar levels may pass on faults in the womb to the developing foetus.

There's a theory doing the rounds that baldness is caused by a tight scalp, mainly caused by tight muscles at the back and sides of the head and the forehead. The tight scalp causes blood flow to be restricted allowing DHT to build up and kill hair.

I've seen numerous convincing cases of people growing their hair back by stretching these head muscles. The photos are very convincing and impressive. If you go to the immortal hair loss forum you can find them.

hatrickpatrick

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

There is something of a cure. It's called propecia. It's available on prescription has has a higher success rate than regaine.

I find it extremely hard to fathom how a product like this is still not banned, to be honest. Male pattern baldness is caused by a genetic sensitivity to Dihydrotestosterone, the most powerful androgen. Propecia works by permanently preventing the body from creating DHT at all, which plays absolute hell with secondary sex characteristics and sexual function.

The fact that it's used in gender reassignment should be enough to make any man run a million miles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride#Off-label_uses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride#Sexual_side_effects

And this all answers the OP's question: Male pattern baldness is caused by a sensitivity to a hormone which, if interfered with, will more likely than not have such hideous side effects that you'd gladly shave your head to recover from them.

Call Me Jimmy

In my opinion baldness has an aging effect on appearance on par with say, waking up one morning, or more realistically over a year or two, going from your normal face to a face of 60 year old.

I think its shameful how people try to belittle it as 'blade and be grand'.

All these guys that 'didn't care' about balding DID care (there are always exceptions, also the older, more securely in a relationship one is will help) but they went through a year or two of acute pain before acceptance. Some men don't recover from the loss and paper over the cracks and try and live as best they can, but are not the same again confidence-wise.

Wibbs

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I find it extremely hard to fathom how a product like this is still not banned, to be honest. Male pattern baldness is caused by a genetic sensitivity to Dihydrotestosterone, the most powerful androgen. Propecia works by permanently preventing the body from creating DHT at all, which plays absolute hell with secondary sex characteristics and sexual function.

IIRC it blocks the DHT rather than preventing it's production? Likely wrong there though, going on memory as per usual. Again on memory doesn't Dihydrotestosterone come from a process whereby testosterone is broken down in the body?

Regardless I agree with you 100% HP. Yes dosage is gonna come into it as the doses used in gender reassignment therapies are gonna be of an order of magnitude larger, even still well dodgy crap to be dealing with. Individuals responses are gonna vary all over the place for a start. What might be fine for one bloke could make another's nuts shrink or make him impotent. Then there's longterm use. *shudder*

And this all answers the OP's question: Male pattern baldness is caused by a sensitivity to a hormone which

I suspect it's but one factor myself.

if interfered with, will more likely than not have such hideous side effects that you'd gladly shave your head to recover from them.

Well there would be the opposite, obvious and safer approach. Rather than interfere with any hormone involved, seek to stop the sensitivity in the follicle. Then again how do you just target the follicle sesnitivity without blocking the actions of the hormones elsewhere in the body where they need to be sensitive or your willie drops off.

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

In my opinion baldness has an aging effect on appearance on par with say, waking up one morning, or more realistically over a year or two, going from your normal face to a face of 60 year old.

I dunno. I would say going bald is aging, but being bald isn't particularly so. Indeed if you're as bald as a trailer hitch at 25, but don't turn into mr fatty and stay the same size and weight, if someone bumped into you at 50 and hadn't seen you in the intervening years you'd look little changed. However with a full head of grey hair you would.

I am pie

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

a) Most men do give a flying fook.
b) I have never heard of a single woman giving their fella stick because he was losing his hair.

I think you might be from a different planet.

a. They don't
b. That proves it then, conclusively.

I haven't the slightest interest in what you "think"

mrnobodyfan87

We'd all have hair down to our eyebrows because of peer pressure if they had a cure for it!

hatrickpatrick

Wibbs wrote: »

IIRC it blocks the DHT rather than preventing it's production? Likely wrong there though, going on memory as per usual. Again on memory doesn't Dihydrotestosterone come from a process whereby testosterone is broken down in the body?

Much like how estrogen is produced from a chemical reaction between aromatase and testosterone, DHT is produced when testosterone comes into contact with the 5a (5 alpha) reductase enzyme and is converted. Finasteride engages the 5 alpha reductase enzyme and deactivates it, much as an aromatase inhibitor engages aromatase and occupies it so it isn't free to operate on testosterone. Problem is, Finasteride is permanent and the body doesn't seem to produce new 5aR to replace that which has been deactivated by Finasteride, thus permanently inhibiting DHT production - and with it, causing what can only be described as something akin to the menopause with androgen production.
The important thing to remember is that DHT cannot be converted into estrogen from interaction with aromatase, which is why it's such an important androgen for male characteristics. To give you one example, some boys develop excess nipple tissue during puberty ("moobs") due to high levels of aromatase, and one treatment for this is additional DHT, because it can't be aromatised at all.

Regardless I agree with you 100% HP. Yes dosage is gonna come into it as the doses used in gender reassignment therapies are gonna be of an order of magnitude larger, even still well dodgy crap to be dealing with. Individuals responses are gonna vary all over the place for a start. What might be fine for one bloke could make another's nuts shrink or make him impotent. Then there's longterm use. *shudder*

What really infuriates me about finasteride / propecia is the fact that, just with the highly destructive side effects of SSRI anti depressants, the pharmaceutical and medical communities by and large refuse to acknowledge the side effects officially, or at least, they did for years. Despite the number of men whose lives were utterly destroyed by this stuff, "it has no lasting sexual side effects that have been proven" remained the official word for years. I myself discovered it when researching a different aromatase problem and potential treatments for it, I came across a "survivors of propecia" forum and it was brimming with stories of frustrated guys who'd spent years fighting to get the side effects acknowledged and therefore to try and discover some medically "official" methods of reversing the effects, and had given up and turned to the anecdotal swapping of stories method instead.

Having been involved in two medical issues myself with the exact same issue (lack of "official" acknowledgement of obvious symptoms and problems) I can feel the frustration. It's not a nice feeling at all when one has very obvious symptoms of being unwell and is constantly told it's all in their head, particularly when others have identical symptoms and there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that it's very, very real.

I suspect it's but one factor myself. Well there would be the opposite, obvious and safer approach. Rather than interfere with any hormone involved, seek to stop the sensitivity in the follicle. Then again how do you just target the follicle sesnitivity without blocking the actions of the hormones elsewhere in the body where they need to be sensitive or your willie drops off.

Well, when it comes to estrogen problems there are selective estrogen modulators, which only target certain estrogen receptors. These were originally designed for women with breast cancer, to target those receptors without interfering with estrogen's other functions, but in recent years it's being acknowledged that these can also be used for guys with residual chest feminization following puberty. I would imagine the same is possible with DHT. But note: Here we're talking about blocking the hormone's effects on the body, not on blocking production of the hormone itself.
To give you the estrogen analogy because I know a lot more about it, you can either target estrogen receptors to block estrogen working on them, or you can target aromatase to completely shut down body-wide production of estrogen altogether. In this case, we're talking about the latter, Finasteride, which blocks the body-wide production of DHT. What you're suggesting would be a selective androgen receptor modulator, and as these exist already for other issues and other receptors, I can't see any reason why they couldn't find one which solely targets follicle androgen receptors.

Remember though, I'm not actually a chemist, I've just spent the last 7 years of my life researching this entire area in order to try and sort out some issues of my own - for all I know, there are already androgen modulators which do this for follicles. Key thing is though, you want something which will block receptors, not which will actually prevent hormones from being produced full stop, and certainly not something which will permanently prevent a hormone from being produced even after the medication is discontinued.

roosterman71

Possibility of a new technique to regrow hair
http://www.joe.ie/health/mens-health/boffins-close-to-battling-baldness/

speedboatchase

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

There is something of a cure. It's called propecia. It's available on prescription has has a higher success rate than regaine.

Also, I would consider using it because I've noticed (just recently) that some hair has been coming off from my fringe area area in the shower. I've always had a widow's peak type thing up there, but it has receded slightly. It';s only starting but trying not to think about it because worrying might make it worse!

Steer clear of propecia. Starting to experience some horrible side effects and despite quitting it months ago, the side effects still persist.

anncoates

Because the bastards have the temerity to try and sort out other more trifling issues like Cancer, AIDS and Alzheimers first.

Wibbs

speedboatchase wrote: »

Steer clear of propecia. Starting to experience some horrible side effects and despite quitting it months ago, the side effects still persist.

Jesus. Just reading HP's post before yours and ohmigod, that stuff should be avoided like the bloody plague it seems. :eek:

anncoates wrote: »

Because the bastards have the temerity to try and sort out other more trifling issues like Cancer, AIDS and Alzheimers first.

Partially, though companies and researchers would also be mindful of the fact that a baldness cure would earn many billions. Look at the enormous financial rewards that came from Viagra, which was treating something more "trivial" than the examples you give. Lots of times medical research follows the money.

Jimoslimos

anncoates wrote: »

Because the bastards have the temerity to try and sort out other more trifling issues like Cancer, AIDS and Alzheimers first.

Cancer and Alzheimers are where the money is, first world diseases always carry more incentive to cure than ones primarily found in the developing world

Wibbs wrote: »

Partially, though companies and researchers would also be mindful of the fact that a baldness cure would earn many billions. Look at the enormous financial rewards that came from Viagra, which was treating something more "trivial" than the examples you give. Lots of times medical research follows the money.

Viagra is an interesting example in that it wasn't initially developed as drug for treating erectile dysfunction, but rather for a more serious condition, hypertension - which is also a lucrative area for drug development.

soirish

Fast forward to 2016, Japanese scientists announced first successful hair cloning using stem cells

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/4/e1500887

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3519345/Is-finally-cure-baldness-Complex-cells-hair-follicles-implanted-skin-time.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jboyd/2016/07/13/stem-cells-to-make-hair-today-gone-tomorrow-a-thing-of-the-past/#55a2187c3cc5

gramar

I can't imagine how dousing your head in some hair lotion like Regaine would make it grow.

Badly Drunk Boy

Science fiction writer and futurologist Arthur C. Clarke, who proposed a satellite communication system in 1945, predicted that we'd all be bald (male and female) by the year 3000 to interact more efficiently with technology.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I'll never go bald.

Stinger baldies

Maybe. But how are the teeth, Gummy?

Widdershins

I've a male friend who has been saying he has a receding hairline since he was in his mid twenties, and he's early thirties now. It wasn't receding then and it's not now. Fair enough if you're seeing it come out in the shower or something.

pumpkin4life

soirish wrote: »

Fast forward to 2016, Japanese scientists announced first successful hair cloning using stem cells

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/4/e1500887

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3519345/Is-finally-cure-baldness-Complex-cells-hair-follicles-implanted-skin-time.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jboyd/2016/07/13/stem-cells-to-make-hair-today-gone-tomorrow-a-thing-of-the-past/#55a2187c3cc5

Good to see.

For a lot of lads, it's a massive psychological and physical appearance blow.

Wibbs

gramar wrote: »

I can't imagine how dousing your head in some hair lotion like Regaine would make it grow.

Why not? There are plenty of medicines that are applied to the skin that can cause large scale biological changes.

sbsquarepants

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I think its shameful how people try to belittle it as 'blade and be grand'.

All these guys that 'didn't care' about balding DID care (there are always exceptions, also the older, more securely in a relationship one is will help) but they went through a year or two of acute pain before acceptance. Some men don't recover from the loss and paper over the cracks and try and live as best they can, but are not the same again confidence-wise.

I'm one of those guys and I can confirm you're talking bollox - I didn't care then and still don't now.
Now don't get me wrong - if I could choose, I'd have an afro, but I can't and it doesn't cause me any lost sleep.
If I could choose, I'd be a few inches taller - that doesn't keep me awake much either.
We'd all change all sorts if we could, but we can't so we get on.
I'm grand as I am, I wouldn't really bother with the time, hassle or expense to change anything really. If I could snap my fingers and do it, then yea of course I would, but not procedures or drugs and handing over wads of cash.

5starpool

Having no hair doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when I leave it a few days to long before getting rid of it all again and it looks much worse than it does when I get rid of it all. Less hassle, more cost effective and quicker. Having to slather my head in sun cream when it's sunny out is the only down side, and not that big a one really. In winter I wear warm hats lots which is nice.

razorblunt

I wish there was a cure for the condition that makes men think they look good with toupés on.
Or that they're getting away with it.

HensVassal

razorblunt wrote: »

I wish there was a cure for the condition that makes men think they look good with toupés on.
Or that they're getting away with it.

I don't think I've ever seen a thatch that looks good. What's ridiculous is the colour contrast on some of these syrups. You'll see some guy wearing a rug that's jet black and the natural hair at the back of his neck underneath it is fcuking red.

_Jamie_

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

a) Most men do give a flying fook.
b) I have never heard of a single woman giving their fella stick because he was losing his hair.

I think you might be from a different planet.

I wouldn't give my fella stick but secretly I'd be like. "Aw". I love a hirsute man.

The_Kew_Tour

#justiceforbaldpeople

Going bald. Actually dont mind it. Its when i was fighting it a little few years back it look worse. would I rather my hair back fully? 100% but dont fight or grow for patches. After while you honestly wont mind.

I have friend who taking it badly though. And he looks better now if ask me or females I know say same.