Advice on cheap diesel car with cheap tax

Lemlin

A friend of mine is coming home from Australia for 3 to 6 months and has asked me to look into getting him a cheap 1k diesel car for while he's home.

He wants the car to be NCTed but tax doesn't bother him because he'll tax it for six months.

The stumbling block I'm finding is the cost of tax. I've seen a few Peugeot 206s for example that are diesel but they are 1.8 and the tax is €300 to €400 even for six months.

I was hoping to get something more cost effective for him. Anybody any recommendations of diesel models going for around 1k with cheaper tax?

He is not bothered about the body type of the car. It can be saloon or hatchback or whatever. He does want a car rather than a van though.

MuppetCheck

Does it need to be a diesel? Unless he's going to be doing huge miles he'll have a better choice in petrol. Have a look in the bangernomics thread.

Scortho

He's coming for a few months?
The savings he'll need to get to justify the diesel would require him to be doing monsterous miles for his duration here.
If I was coming for a few months I'd be buying the biggest barge I could find.

ba_barabus

All things considered the car you want doesn't really exist.

You can have a small diesel engine but you'll pay a premium for it or you can have a small diesel car but the engine will be big.

Either way you'll pay a premium just to have a diesel that isn't on the edge of going BANG.

Why does it have to be a diesel?

Lemlin

His father runs a small haulage company so he can get company diesel. That is why he wanted a diesel.

Scortho

Fair enough reason then.
I'd nearly consider going diesel if I my dad would let me use the company account.
You will find it hard to find a diesel with the requirements.
That said it won't be too hard to sell on either in a few months so he could considering up his budget.

Lemlin

Scortho wrote: »

Fair enough reason then.
I'd nearly consider going diesel if I my dad would let me use the company account.
You will find it hard to find a diesel with the requirements.
That said it won't be too hard to sell on either in a few months so he could considering up his budget.

His budget is €1500 to €1600 to include twelve months tax. He is going to give the car to his younger brother when he heads back. I wasn't aware of this earlier but was chatting to him there now.

Anyone seen anything online they'd suggest?

Scortho

As the brother is getting the car, get him to pay the tax!
That's what I'd be doing if I was genorous enough to give my brother a free car in the first place.

Lemlin

Scortho wrote: »

As the brother is getting the car, get him to pay the tax!
That's what I'd be doing if I was genorous enough to give my brother a free car in the first place.

I don't even know who is paying what! Just been told I've €1500 for a diesel car and 12 months tax.

bigroad

You could try a peugeot 106 1.5 diesel.After that you have to move up to a 1.7 opel corsa or astra.Its quiet hard to find a small diesel that has not been driven into the ground.There is also the peugeot 206 1.4hdi which is at its cheapest in van form.Renault also do the clio in a 1.5 diesel,but im not sure how reliable they are.Some of the lads might be able to link to donedeal or adverts.

myshirt

Lemlin wrote: »

His father runs a small haulage company so he can get company diesel. That is why he wanted a diesel.

I don't see how this is relevant? He ain't gonna get diesel any cheaper through this method.

ba_barabus

bigroad wrote: »

You could try a peugeot 106 1.5 diesel.After that you have to move up to a 1.7 opel corsa or astra.Its quiet hard to find a small diesel that has not been driven into the ground.There is also the peugeot 206 1.4hdi which is at its cheapest in van form.Renault also do the clio in a 1.5 diesel,but im not sure how reliable they are.Some of the lads might be able to link to donedeal or adverts.

And all either outside the budget or as rare as hens teeth

vandriver

myshirt wrote: »

I don't see how this is relevant? He ain't gonna get diesel any cheaper through this method.

Cheaper than free??

bigroad

ba_barabus wrote: »

And all either outside the budget or as rare as hens teeth

Maybe so but that is the list for the op to search for .I have just seen a few possibilities on donedeal ,so i think my list is within budget.If you dont look you wont find.

ba_barabus

bigroad wrote: »

Maybe so but that is the list for the op to search for .I have just seen a few possibilities on donedeal ,so i think my list is within budget.If you dont look you wont find.

Well post them.

I'd love to see any of them for 1600€ including a full NCT and 12 months tax.

That's what the OP is looking for

YbFocus

98-99 B5 Passat may be got for 1600 with 700 in there for tax.
It'll be a high miler though, but they're usually reliable cars.

bigroad

ba_barabus wrote: »

Well post them.

I'd love to see any of them for 1600€ including a full NCT and 12 months tax.

That's what the OP is looking for

cant post them but there are two astras on done deal on the cars section with long nct asking 1100 and 1200 so with a bit dealing for 1600 the op would have car plus nct and tax.1.7 by the way.

myshirt

vandriver wrote: »

Cheaper than free??

Related party transaction my friend. Not deductible by the company for tax; and not entitled to company treatment; the company will have to adjust their accounts and effectively pay the full rate.

Unless his father is just putting his hand into his own arse pocket.... then that's a different story.... but that's just the same as anyone, so I don't see why being in haulage matters.

This guy should go for a petrol.

Bruthal

myshirt wrote: »

Related party transaction my friend. Not deductible by the company for tax; and not entitled to company treatment; the company will have to adjust their accounts and effectively pay the full rate.

Unless his father is just putting his hand into his own arse pocket.... then that's a different story.... but that's just the same as anyone, so I don't see why being in haulage matters.

This guy should go for a petrol.

Well, it would seem that the son can avail of some of the fathers diesel. Too much thinking there with company costs etc.

myshirt

Bruthal wrote: »

Well, it would seem that the son can avail of some of the fathers diesel. Too much thinking there with company costs etc.

Well if he's paying I suppose, go for the Diesel. But it's strange if he had something against paying for his sons diesel out of his aftertax income, as opposed to paying for his petrol.

Then again, diesel is cheaper.

In any event, this is going off topic

johndaman66

ba_barabus wrote: »

Well post them.

I'd love to see any of them for 1600€ including a full NCT and 12 months tax.

That's what the OP is looking for

Think the OP only needs 6 months motor tax as I recall but yeah you would be pretty hard pushed to get a low capacity diesel in good order ready to go, taxed, NCT'd and all for €1,600.

bigroad wrote: »

cant post them but there are two astras on done deal on the cars section with long nct asking 1100 and 1200 so with a bit dealing for 1600 the op would have car plus nct and tax.1.7 by the way.

Thing is though its only €72 extra to tax a 1.9 diesel octavia/ passat/ golf etc. for the six months or only €51 extra to tax a 1.8 diesel ford for 6 months. Just trying to keep things in perspective really. You might easily spend the €72 on travel expenses going to look at an Astra for the sake of saving a few quid in motor tax while there might be a Passat on your doorstep.

How about the likes of this focus 1.8 diesel asking €1,200. Its respectable but certainly not a looker. More than enough NCT on it and taxed till end of September. Just to throw it out there as an example

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ford-focus-ghia/5594855

Bruthal

myshirt wrote: »

Well if he's paying I suppose, go for the Diesel. But it's strange if he had something against paying for his sons diesel out of his aftertax income, as opposed to paying for his petrol.

Then again, diesel is cheaper.

Yea but if I am buying 100 tons of coal a week, I would be more likely to give my neighbour the odd bag, than handing him cash to pay his gas bill instead.

In any event, this is going off topic

It`l be grand.

Lemlin

johndaman66 wrote: »

Think the OP only needs 6 months motor tax as I recall but yeah you would be pretty hard pushed to get a low capacity diesel in good order ready to go, taxed, NCT'd and all for €1,600.

Thing is though its only €72 extra to tax a 1.9 diesel octavia/ passat/ golf etc. for the six months or only €51 extra to tax a 1.8 diesel ford for 6 months. Just trying to keep things in perspective really. You might easily spend the €72 on travel expenses going to look at an Astra for the sake of saving a few quid in motor tax while there might be a Passat on your doorstep.

How about the likes of this focus 1.8 diesel asking €1,200. Its respectable but certainly not a looker. More than enough NCT on it and taxed till end of September. Just to throw it out there as an example

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ford-focus-ghia/5594855

How much would tax be on that car?

bazz26

You can put the reg in below and it will tell the tax rate:

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinforeg.do

OP, I think what you are looking for just doesn't exist on that budget. Low motor tax cars are in demand, diesel cars are in demand. Trouble free, low tax, diesel cars with NCT and tax are rare and those available fetch serious money. Your friend imo is going to have to relent on at least one of those conditions.

Lemlin

bazz26 wrote: »

You can put the reg in below and it will tell the tax rate:

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinforeg.do

OP, I think what you are looking for just doesn't exist on that budget. Low motor tax cars are in demand, diesel cars are in demand. Trouble free, low tax, diesel cars with NCT and tax are rare and those available fetch serious money. Your friend imo is going to have to relent on at least one of those conditions.

Would he be better off just go for a small diesel car van? Would the tax be cheaper on it?

bazz26

Afaik unless he has a VAT number he will have to tax it privately which means it will be same as a car. Tax can be paid for 3, 6 or 12 months, would it kill him to tax it for the 3 or 6 months he is here?

johndaman66

€352 for the 1.8 diesel mondeo for 6 months. Here are the current rates based on engine capacity.

Edit: Link not quite working and can't paste in image for some reason but select "Private Car Standard" from drop down menu

Soarer

I'm half thinking of selling my 1.7dti Astra. 107k on the clock. Fresh 12 month NCT since Tuesday, and taxed her for 6 months yesterday. Would be looking for close to €2k though.

Lemlin

Soarer wrote: »

I'm half thinking of selling my 1.7dti Astra. 107k on the clock. Fresh 12 month NCT since Tuesday, and taxed her for 6 months yesterday. Would be looking for close to €2k though.

Nah, sorry but that's €500 above budget. It'd be due a timing belt soon too.

Old diesel

To be honest - I think you might be as well to go for something like a 1.3 Corolla, Lancer or Mazda 323.

Tax would be low enough, not overly heavy on fuel (not sure about the Mazda - but know people whove run Lancer and Corolla 1.3s and did fine on fuel).

Also perfectly pleasant to drive and reliable.

Hard to get a decent diesel imo at that kind of money.

dgt

Cheap tax
Cheap diesel car

Pick one

Soarer

Lemlin wrote: »

It'd be due a timing belt soon too.

How do you figure that?

Lemlin

dgt wrote: »

Cheap tax
Cheap diesel car

Pick one

I have. Going with cheap diesel car. Will just have to pay the tax. Now any suggestions of a car for around 1k folks?

Must have an NCT and be within an hour or so of Cavan (so Longford, Leitrim, Sligo, Meath, Louth, Offaly, Dublin, Westmeath, Donegal and Roscommon are in, Cork is not!).

Lemlin

Soarer wrote: »

How do you figure that?

Timing belt is changed on most cars every 60k miles I was told. Your car has 107k so is due a timing belt after about 10k.

Soarer

It was changed at 85k. You should really ask instead of assuming things.

Scortho

Nice engine. Nice car. Cheap. Nice bit if work as well done recently.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/citroen-xantia-2001-2-0-hdi-nct-5-14/5506490

Nct until march.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/peugeot-406-for-sale-/5545072

Nct until February if he's after "German reliability". We had one that spontaneously went on fire though.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/00-audi-a4-1-9tdi-nct-service-history/5584845

dgt

Lemlin wrote: »

I have. Going with cheap diesel car. Will just have to pay the tax. Now any suggestions of a car for around 1k folks?

Must have an NCT and be within an hour or so of Cavan (so Longford, Leitrim, Sligo, Meath, Louth, Offaly, Dublin, Westmeath, Donegal and Roscommon are in, Cork is not!).

Predictable me has to jump in again :pac:

This chap is dreaming at this price, haggle him, it's worth a good bit less than the asking price. But it fits your criteria and will go forever in comfort. Better still, has the full mech injection system, not the semi ecu setup later ones had. Cheap to run, cheap to buy, diesel, feck all electric problems....

NCT till June, 950

Bruthal

Soarer wrote: »

It was changed at 85k. You should really ask instead of assuming things.

Well its a fair enough assumption that a car from an unfamiliar source will likely need a timing belt sooner rather than later.

Lemlin

Soarer wrote: »

It was changed at 85k. You should really ask instead of assuming things.

My apologies.

I didn't think you were offering it for consideration tbh.

My max budget is €1600 and you want close to 2k so there's a few hundred between us.

Lemlin

What about this:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/diesel-stilo-for-sale-nctd-til-4-14/5601166

Tax is 394 for a half year so if I haggle them down a bit it'll definitely come in at budget.

Is Fiat as dodgy as the Fix It Again Tomorrow reputation though?

Scortho

Lemlin wrote: »

What about this:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/diesel-stilo-for-sale-nctd-til-4-14/5601166

Tax is 394 for a half year so if I haggle them down a bit it'll definitely come in at budget.

Is Fiat as dodgy as the Fix It Again Tomorrow reputation though?

Not if the owner isn't thick.

dingding

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/94-daihatsu-charade-1-0-turbo-diesel/5391910

Pop a turbo in this and you are away

Lemlin

dgt wrote: »

Predictable me has to jump in again :pac:

This chap is dreaming at this price, haggle him, it's worth a good bit less than the asking price. But it fits your criteria and will go forever in comfort. Better still, has the full mech injection system, not the semi ecu setup later ones had. Cheap to run, cheap to buy, diesel, feck all electric problems....

NCT till June, 950

Thanks for looking but a '96 is a bit older than I was expecting to go. The Stilo I found there is 2003 for example.

I was hoping the oldest I'd go was '99 but would like to even try and keep to '00 or newer.

Scortho

Lemlin wrote: »

Thanks for looking but a '96 is a bit older than I was expecting to go. The Stilo I found there is 2003 for example.

I was hoping the oldest I'd go was '99 but would like to even try and keep to '00 or newer.

Like women age is irrelevant.
A lot of the time the older models have better ride quality. :cool:

dgt

Lemlin wrote: »

Thanks for looking but a '96 is a bit older than I was expecting to go. The Stilo I found there is 2003 for example.

I was hoping the oldest I'd go was '99 but would like to even try and keep to '00 or newer.

See with this 96 example, there's practically no electronics to stop the engine going. No DMF. Not even a cat (briefly in 96 those cars had no cat just a silencer instead)

If you want newer, here you go:

NCT till Feb, 950



Given the choice of this or the 1.9TD, I'd pick the TD every time

Stilos I never particularly liked, alas things to watch out for are dirty mafs and failing turbos

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

Related party transaction my friend. Not deductible by the company for tax; and not entitled to company treatment; the company will have to adjust their accounts and effectively pay the full rate.

Unless his father is just putting his hand into his own arse pocket.... then that's a different story.... but that's just the same as anyone, so I don't see why being in haulage matters.

This guy should go for a petrol.

I'm sure he buys his diesel in bulk and claims the tax on it all, you are living in dream land if you think he is going to declare the few tanks of diesel his son takes separately. As far as his returns are concerned that diesel will be burned in a company vehicle.

Scortho

Hattie Fresh Conduit wrote: »

I'm sure he buys his diesel in bulk and claims the tax on it all, you are living in dream land if you think he is going to declare the few tanks of diesel his son takes separately. As far as his returns are concerned that diesel will be burned in a company vehicle.

Hattie Fresh Conduit wrote: »

I'm sure he buys his diesel in bulk and claims the tax on it all, you are living in dream land if you think he is going to declare the few tanks of diesel his son takes separately. As far as his returns are concerned that diesel will be burned in a company vehicle.

My dad owns his own company.
I can tell you one thing about owning your own company.
Audits are **** scary and stressful.

Revenue actually asked him how he put good on the table when they didn't see him take a wage on certain weeks. And he had to prove how as well.
The reward is Not worth the risk at all.

It's very easy for revenue to turn around in say this is what the fleets been using on average the last few months mpg wise.
This is what it used this month mpg wise.
Explain the decline.
Unless you have a legitimate excuse then they can come down on you hard.
You might get away <snip> a couple of litres of diesel, but if an audit is done, they'll be wondering where a years supply of diesel is gone.
Their first port if call, won't be that you're using it for your own car, it'll be that you're not putting all the work through the books.

Scortho

Scortho wrote: »

My dad owns his own company.
I can tell you one thing about owning your own company.
Audits are **** scary and stressful.

Revenue actually asked him how he put good on the table when they didn't see him take a wage on certain weeks. And he had to prove how as well.
The reward is Not worth the risk at all.

It's very easy for revenue to turn around in say this is what the fleets been using on average the last few months mpg wise.
This is what it used this month mpg wise.
Explain the decline.
Unless you have a legitimate excuse then they can come down on you hard.
You might get away pikeying a couple of litres of diesel, but if an audit is done, they'll be wondering where a years supply of diesel is gone.
Their first port if call, won't be that you're using it for your own car, it'll be that you're not putting all the work through the books.

On the other hand I have a couple of friends who's fathers own companies and are using diesel from the company since they started driving 10+ years ago.

That's not even going into all the people claiming vat back on diesel put in their wives cars, sons cars etc.

If you think a few tanks of diesel going into a car is going to be noticed in a company using 1000's of litres in trucks I think you are being very very paranoid. It would be next to impossible to prove.

Scortho

Hattie Fresh Conduit wrote: »

On the other hand I have a couple of friends who's fathers own companies and are using diesel from the company since they started driving 10+ years ago.

That's not even going into all the people (farmers mainly) claiming vat back on diesel put in their wives cars, sons cars etc.

If you think a few tanks of diesel going into a car is going to be noticed in a company using 1000's of litres in trucks I think you are being very very paranoid. It would be next to impossible to prove.

I can only relate a personal family experience with a revenue audit.
It wasn't fun.
They wanted to know where every penny that came in cane from and where every penny that went out was spent on. Then his own wages and my mams as they're both directors.
Where did the money cone from this week to pay that bill. Where did money come from another week to pay something else.

It's a lot of stress to out yourself through, just so your kids can have free fuel.

Lemlin

Can we get back to discussing vehicles. I'm looking for diesel vehicles for in or around 1k.

I'm sure there's a taxation forum or somewhere where the other discussion can happen but for now the only relevant info here is that my friend wants a diesel.

We'll leave worrying about auditing etc. to his family. It's not my concern here.

bazz26

Nothing spectacular but might be worth a look, has a long NCT:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/carisma-1-9-did-02-nct-07-14/5594547