How much does your job cost you?

MadsL

I recently read an interesting book on downsizing to the point of quitting your job, finding cheap land and never working again, living off the waste-stream even to the point of making your own bio-fuel and toothpaste.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Good-Life-Lab-Experiments/dp/product-description/1612121012

How much does it cost you to be employed?

Tax.
Commuting
Lunch
Work Clothes
Work socialising
Charity collections
Dinner out (too tired to cook)
Professional development/education etc.

Is it worth working if you could reduce your living expenses to what you could make selling your skills in another way?

If for example you refused to draw the dole but reduced your living expenses to say €5-10k a year per couple. Manage to self build a living space to the point where you had no rent, no mortgage and could live from your skillset, would you do it?






*No disrespect to those currently seeking work. I have certainly been there.

I have a net income and i like my job so it's all good
They pay for the professional development anyway...

RachaelVO

Apart from my soul and dignity ya mean?

MadsL

RachaelVO wrote: »

Apart from my soul and dignity ya mean?

Nail. Head.

Rubecula

If and it is a really big if, I was able to be that independant, then yes I would at the drop of a homemade hat.

In theory it sounds intriguing. In reality, unless you live in a welfare state with free medical and education - really free, not pretend free - you're going to need a currency income.

I've imagined the life, but it wouldn't be as idyllic as I'd like if there was a pregnancy, an illness, or a small child to provide securely for. Everything going well, great. Crisis would leave you too vulnerable if you were off the economic grid.

MadsL

Candie wrote: »

In theory it sounds intriguing. In reality, unless you live in a welfare state with free medical and education - really free, not pretend free - you're going to need a currency income.

I've imagined the life, but it wouldn't be as idyllic as I'd like if there was a pregnancy, an illness, or a small child to provide securely for. Everything going well, great. Crisis would leave you too vulnerable if you were off the economic grid.

The authors of the book have medical insurance and live with no welfare.

She draws an income from writing, Swap-a-rama-rama, yoga teaching etc.

He draws an income from his awesome open-source gadgets http://screwdecaf.cx/yatc.html

^^Then they can't really be referred to as 'not working ever again'!

Unless they mean not working for The Man.

MadsL

Candie wrote: »

^^Then they can't really be referred to as 'not working ever again'!

True, OK, not working in the 'system'...I see a distinction between working in order to service debt (mortgage etc) and working to trade skills as you please.

The ultimate goal being to reduce expenditure not increase income.

Nemeses

MadsL wrote: »

I
How much does it cost you to be employed?

Tax.
Commuting
Lunch
Work Clothes
Work socialising
Charity collections
Dinner out (too tired to cook)
Professional development/education etc.

Am I required to fill out this form?

Sleepy

It'd be easy enough if you had a home with no mortgage or at least your own patch of land but it's pretty difficult otherwise imo.

My name is URL

Sounds like a grand life until a time comes when you actually require liquidity or capital that cannot be provided by having such a lifestyle.

MadsL

Nemeses wrote: »

Am I required to fill out this form?

If you want the grant yes

Nemeses

MadsL wrote: »

If you want the grant yes

How mooch?

Oranage2

I worked it out and I reckon work costs me about a fiver a week.

MadsL

Sleepy wrote: »

It'd be easy enough if you had a home with no mortgage or at least your own patch of land but it's pretty difficult otherwise imo.

€5k for an acre. Plead, plead, plead for PP for a sustainable recycled materials dwelling say €10-15k spent building that.

Next steps? Solar? Wind?

That's exactly farming is a great way of life particularly if you are not materialistic, its is hard manual labour but you are your own boss, work very near your home, don't need to put up with other people if you don't want.

Corvo

MadsL wrote: »

I recently read an interesting book on downsizing to the point of quitting your job, finding cheap land and never working again, living off the waste-stream even to the point of making your own bio-fuel and toothpaste.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Good-Life-Lab-Experiments/dp/product-description/1612121012

How much does it cost you to be employed?

Tax.
Commuting
Lunch
Work Clothes
Work socialising
Charity collections
Dinner out (too tired to cook)
Professional development/education etc.

Is it worth working if you could reduce your living expenses to what you could make selling your skills in another way?

If for example you refused to draw the dole but reduced your living expenses to say €5-10k a year per couple. Manage to self build a living space to the point where you had no rent, no mortgage and could live from your skillset, would you do it?






*No disrespect to those currently seeking work. I have certainly been there.

Oh man I hate that crap in work.

"It's Julia's birthday today and we are collecting 5 euro off everyone to get her a cake and some scratch cards"

"Who the fook is Julia?"

"Oh she started last week"

:mad:

Anyone here that gets paid by the month knows that by the end, you haven't enough to survive on tins of beans, never mind donate to some strangers cake (and it's always a crappy sponge cake)

/rant

EDIT: Not quite a charity collection but a work collection! I don't mind charity!

krudler

My sanity

*twitch*

MissD93

if anyone reads the argh thread you'll see my job has now left me hating men in general

MadsL

Ah..I thought at the very least I would find you working as an erotic dancer...changing kegs is a bit harsh to be hating men over. Equality sucks huh?

MissD93

read further back i work as a barmaid and men are just total creeps to me, some of the stuff they makes me wanna cry

Esoteric_

After costs for work (mainly uniform and travel, as I don't even bother eating lunch most days), I come out with about a tenner less disposable income than when I was on the dole. Still, I'd rather that than the dole. It'll do til something else comes along.

BattleCorp

MadsL wrote: »

€5k for an acre. Plead, plead, plead for PP for a sustainable recycled materials dwelling say €10-15k spent building that.

Next steps? Solar? Wind?

5k for an acre? Where? Haven't seen an acre around here sold for 5k since the 1980's.

Not one suitable for building a house on anyway.

You probably could build a hovel for about 15k (no comforts whatsoever) but what about services such as water and electricity. It would cost nearly another 15k to get connected to everything.



It would be a nice idea though, to be self sufficient and leave the rat race behind. I reckon you'd need a fair bit more than an acre to feed yourself. Plus this is Ireland, it's hard to get a wide selection of fruit to grow here. Vegetables would be no problem. You'd have a very limited diet if you went the totally self sufficient route.

Plus, you'd still need cash money to pay things like the Local Property Tax, Septic Tank Registration Fee, and the new Public Broadcasting Charge. The Government won't take turnips in lieu of cash.

tayto lover

Wouldn't work here. Property Tax, water charges, septic tank, Rabbitte's new broadcast tax etc etc whether you have electricity or not.

Andy-Pandy

Tis my dream to have about 16 acres, i reckon i could live off it. I'd have about 2/3 acres of garden, an acre of meadow, I'd plant 2 acres of native forest and the rest veg with polytunnels etc (a horticulturists dream).

Back on topic, my job doesnt cost me anything bar the odd coffee, i cycle there and that is free.

wexie

Hmmm.....

On bad days I'd happily pack it all in to go do some hard manual labour and save my soul and sanity. Today I drove nearly 4 hours, spent about 4 hours waiting for a customer to do something they've known they needed to do for months and swore that had been done :mad: Have also driven to Cork and back before to go plug in a cable! 7 hours driving, 10 minutes work

But then on good days, when I get to go home early cause things work out well, I realise I have a boss who doesn't think getting 12 mpg from a 2L diesel is strange, doesn't ask too many awkward questions about my expenses and is happy to send me on the odd interesting trip. Also if I'm 'working from home' he's happy as long as he can get me on the phone and due to the wonders of technology I can answer mails while out in the hills with my dogs

So all in all I guess it evens out.

Wouldn't mind dealing with less politics, change control and H&S nonsense though. Not the worlds most patient person when it comes to people.

April O Neill

MadsL wrote: »

Work socialising

Work... socialising?


:pac:

UCDVet

Some people seem to have a very idealized view on this sort of thing. The cost of living is actually pretty high, especially if you want to live any sort of modern life.

It'd be a lot more effective to just change your habits slightly, and not abandon your current lifestyle.

Tax - meh. Quit your job and you'll still pay tax on everything you do or buy. But sure, you'd pay less in tax, but only because you earn less.
Commuting - Get a bicycle. Commute cost is negligible and without the commute to work, you'll still want to go places.
Lunch - I'm going to eat lunch whether I go to work or stay home. If you are poor, like I am, it's easy enough to bring a lunch with you. It's no more expensive than eating at home.
Work Clothes - Work or not, I'm going to need clothes in general. Unless you are wearing a business suit each day, this isn't a big deal. I wear jeans and t-shirts at home, and at work.
Work Socializing - Just don't go. Besides, if you were at home all day, you'd probably spend more time/money socializing with friends and family. I went out for drinks at the end of my first week, and never again.
Charity Collections - Just say no thanks.
Dinner Out - Just don't do it.
Professional Development/Education - Should be paid for be the employer anyway; but there are lots and lots of free resources...but how are you doing to develop your 'alternate' money making skill without spending time and effort learning?

Without my day job, I've got no actual skills worth having. Most people are like me, IMHO. I could baby sit or clean your house, but nothing that would pay the bills. The dole would be many times better than whatever 'side-job' I could come up with.

And if you are selling your skills in another way, you're still obligated (as far as I know) to declare that and pay taxes. No matter what you do, they get their cut.

wexie

April O Neill wrote: »

Work... socialising?


:pac:

glad to see it's not just me

major bill

Still lucky to work in a company that expense travel and lunch if working off site.

work costs nothing which I think is the reason they get the best out of their staff.

April O Neill

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

i cycle there and that is free.

Apart from bike maintenance.

MadsL

April O Neill wrote: »

Work... socialising?


:pac:

You've never been pressurised into attending leaving drinks/meal? A fortune buying rounds and being of good cheer for someone you probably will never see again.

Cost us $160 last night at a leaving bash.

wexie

MadsL wrote: »

You've never been pressurised into attending leaving drinks/meal? A fortune buying rounds and being of good cheer for someone you probably will never see again.

Cost us $160 last night at a leaving bash.

I live over 100 km from the office, handiest excuse ever. Although once the boss said he'd sign off on my hotel. (and the drinks)

't was quite the hangover.

Andy-Pandy

April O Neill wrote: »

Apart from bike maintenance.

do it myself

shruikan2553

Tax - 0
Commuting - bike maintenance at most
Lunch- Eat at home so same price anyway.
Work Clothes - Wear my own
All the rest 0 too.

Shenshen

So the suggestion here is to work harder, for much longer hours to maintain a much lower standard of living?

I fail to see the logic. Find yourself a job you actually enjoy, you won't feel it "costs" you anything then.

MadsL

Shenshen wrote: »

So the suggestion here is to work harder, for much longer hours to maintain a much lower standard of living?

I fail to see the logic. Find yourself a job you actually enjoy, you won't feel it "costs" you anything then.

Nope.

The logic is to work less for others and more for yourself and decommodify your lifestyle thereby releasing yourself from the burden of having to increasingly earn more to support an increasingly expensive lifestyle.

If your standard of living is defined by what you buy, rather than what you can do with your time, then it will never be logical.

Fox_In_Socks

I'd love to live off the grid one day. Phones, emails, people bothering me...leave it all behind.

Shenshen

MadsL wrote: »

Nope.

The logic is to work less for others and more for yourself and decommodify your lifestyle thereby releasing yourself from the burden of having to increasingly earn more to support an increasingly expensive lifestyle.

If your standard of living is defined by what you buy, rather than what you can do with your time, then it will never be logical.

Might sound hard to believe, but I work for myself. If I worked for others, as you put it, I would hardly expect to be paid for it, right?

I don't really see where there is a burden to earn more - I earn enough to live my life at a level I'm more than happy with.

I would have to spend more time than I will ever even have in order to be anywhere near as comfortable and happy if I decided that rather then working 7 hours a day for a wage I'd go and work 24/7 to keep some sort of roof over my head and find food somewhere. That doesn't sound logical.

Radiosonde

major bill wrote: »

Still lucky to work in a company that expense travel and lunch if working off site.

work costs nothing which I think is the reason they get the best out of their staff.

Is that your username or what the accounts dept calls you where you work?

imitation

Nah, all in all I prefer a steady job. this kind of living is all great on paper and stuff, but having dry months of no money when you cant find odd jobs, or getting into one of those things that all of a sudden costs you a few grand quickly make it stressful

April O Neill

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

do it myself

You still have to buy stuff.

April O Neill

MadsL wrote: »

You've never been pressurised into attending leaving drinks/meal?

Not yet, no. In my last workplace, we'd just go out to the local cafe for lunch, the whole lab. That's much better, IMO, and much cheaper.

fasttalkerchat

Just about to take a job that will cost €4200/year in commuting alone... more if petrol prices keep rising.

MadsL

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Just about to take a job that will cost €4200/year in commuting alone... more if petrol prices keep rising.

Wow, that is a phenomenal amount per annum! How far is the commute?

holystungun9

Oranage2 wrote: »

I worked it out and I reckon work costs me about a fiver a week.

Taking some highlighters, paper clips and post-its will offset that if you take enough.

fasttalkerchat

MadsL wrote: »

Wow, that is a phenomenal amount per annum! How far is the commute?

38 miles each way. May be able to cut it to €3000 by avoiding toll bridge.

Grayson

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Just about to take a job that will cost €4200/year in commuting alone... more if petrol prices keep rising.

I have no idea how half the people I know own cars. They are so expensive.

I catch a train each way to work. There's a 15 minute walk to the station and a 20 minute walk to work then. And the train journey is about 20 minutes long. So I spend about 1 hour each way to work. But it's less than 20 a week in travel expenses.

Of course in a few weeks I'll be changing back to sunday shifts and then I'll have to spend €30 on a taxi on sunday mornings. Because irish rail in it's infinite wisdom has decided that no-one starts work before 11 on a sunday.

jimgoose

Umm, it's possible that I'm being hopelessly naive here, but after paying for everything and so forth I still have money left over after working. And I'd be eating lunch anyway, the only difference is I don't have to scrape it off the road. So I am of the view that it costs me nothing to go to work, quite the opposite. Who's been reading accountancy books written by window-licking lunatics? Now what did we say about that??

Ted_YNWA

I finish each month with marginally more than I started with because of my job.

If I didn't have the job

Commute - would be less
Food - neglible, still need to eat
Clothes - neglible, only update work wardrobe sporadically as it is.
Electricity et al If I was lounging around the house, leccy bill would be more.