Rezoning in Delgany LAP 2013 - 2019

Wicklow Will

Folks we have just learned that Wicklow Co. Council are willing to allow the special atmosphere of Delgany to be destroyed by "more of the same" myopic development that got us (Ireland) where we are today! The County Manager has recommended the rezoning of the lands around Stylebawn House (see http://www.delganyheritagevillage.com/style_bawn.html for more information on this charming old property) for VC (Village Centre) redevelopment. See Submission No. 115 here for proof of this: http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/Publications/Planning/Greystones%20Delgany%20Kilcoole/Draft/Stage%203/Stage%203%20Manager's%20Report%20on%20Draft%20GDKLAP2013-2019.pdf


www.wicklow.ie Help us resist this by raising as much awareness of this issue as you can. Delgany is a rare jewel amongst Ireland's villages. It has a tremendous history inextricably linked with the LaTouche family and the legacy they left our country. We cannot let this happen to such a special place. There is a petition available to sign and send to all the local councillors as well as a list of Coucillors and their e-mail addresses. It is vital that they receive the petition - preferrably by e-mail before Friday, 31st August 2013! People in Greystones woke up to find the village changed and spoiled beyond recognition with the construction of the new Marina. Let's not allow the same fate befall Delgany!

Fiachra2

Thanks for letting us know.

WCC has really only one objective. To wreck everything that is pleasant about the whole area.

I would recommend actually meeting as many local councillors as possible, preferably in a group and get their commitment to vote against this proposal.

Wicklow Will

Good idea Fiachra. How could we go about setting up a meeting? I've also put up an online petition for those not on the mailing list of Delgany Community Council who sent out the petition to individuals:

http://www.activism.com/en_IE/petition/opposition-to-rezoning-of-delgany-as-a-level-4-neighbourhood-centre-rezoning-of-stylebawn-house-and-gardens/44984

Fiachra2

Go to the WCC or Greystones Gguide websites and you will get contact details for all of them. Just email/ring them I would try and meet them together but in the past we have found a reluctance on the part of the three FG councillors to meet with Tom Fortune (ind) present so you may have to have two meetings. If you can channel it through your community council that will be more effective

Taltos

WW - your link to the planning has been removed or is invalid - can you summarize what they are planning on doing there?

Looking at the protected building list I can already see one change - the thatched roof.

Charlie-Bravo

Yeah it would be great to see what is actually being changed which is of your concern OP without having to dig through pages of the draft LAP.

Merrilady

3rd that, would love a summary

Wicklow Will

In the main, as I stated in the original post Wicklow Co Co plan to rezone Delgany to a Level 4 Neighbourhood Centre and have recommended changing the designation on the lands around Stylebawn House to allow for commercial development with an anchor tenant in the form of a supermarket along with other commercial outlets and higher density residential units. This will necessitate the realignment and upgrading of country lanes in the area, particularly Blackberry Lane. This will totally alter the appearance and feel of the area. No longer will it have the authentic "heritage village" atmosphere, instead it will be an artificial "faux" sham, made up of cobble block and concrete where once there were wild hedges, genuine stone walls and verges abundant with grasses, insects and wildlife.

The main thrust of our objections though, are on the following grounds:


"We are opposed to the designation of Delgany as a Level 4 Neighbourhood Centre, opposed to the RO18 referred to in Material Alteration No 20 and to the intensification of uses referred to in Material Alteration No 32 for the following reasons:

1. It will not be possible to give effect to the changes proposed in the LAP without radically altering the character of Delgany; Delgany has a distinct heritage. Its narrow twisty roads, bad bends and extensive walls are an integral part of its history, architecture and identity.
2. Sustainable development would protect the unique topography and topology of the roads in and out of Delgany including Blackberry Lane; your proposal will destroy it.
3. The proposed zoning will not support the existing village centre at Delgany. It is unfair on the few existing traders that provide jobs in Delgany to expose them to competition from new commercial development. We have watched the decay and slow death of Bray town centre. We do not want the same planning mistakes in Delgany.
4. We have vacant commercial premises in the village and abandoned development sites. The Council should be encouraging and promoting consolidation of the existing village centre and existing zoned land.
5. Delgany does not need a supermarket or a new shopping centre and all the associated traffic congestion. We have two grocery shops already. We don’t need more shops in Delgany. We want jobs for our young people and this proposal will put existing jobs at risk.
6. The proposed zoning will exacerbate existing traffic congestion. RO18 might alleviate traffic stacking on the steep incline to exit from Blackberry Lane into the village but it will not alleviate the dangers at the bend or on Priory Road. Creating a new junction further south on Blackberry Lane will exacerbate the well documented traffic hazards on Blackberry Lane. The Council’s own environmental experts and planners have acknowledged that Blackberry Lane is a significant natural heritage. The 2006 LAP identifies the lane as a special amenity area. The County Manager has stated that Blackberry Lane has reached its full traffic capacity.
7. The proposed zoning will generate more traffic to and from the bad bend. Sustainable planning would focus on a strategy to alleviate traffic congestion and promote land use patterns that encourage and facilitate use of local public transport, walking and cycling; The proposed zoning will impact adversely on village pedestrian environment and safety; Currently it is not safe for children to walk to school, to walk to church or walk to the bus stop
8. The proposed zoning amounts to sprawl into green-field countryside

I hope that this answers any questions you may have and that we can rely on your support to protect what is rare and the remnants of authentic Delgany.

Taltos

It does - and you can.

Sasso

Stylebawn had wonderful gardens that were open to the public to walk and view, was terrific. I feel like puking reading this. It'd be more in line for WCC to repair the road surface and paths towards Delgany Golf Club entrance

Maudi

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Folks we have just learned that Wicklow Co. Council are willing to allow the special atmosphere of Delgany to be destroyed by "more of the same" myopic development that got us (Ireland) where we are today! The County Manager has recommended the rezoning of the lands around Stylebawn House (see http://www.delganyheritagevillage.com/style_bawn.html for more information on this charming old property) for VC (Village Centre) redevelopment. See Submission No. 115 here for proof of this: http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/Publications/Planning/Greystones%20Delgany%20Kilcoole/Draft/Stage%203/Stage%203%20Manager's%20Report%20on%20Draft%20GDKLAP2013-2019.pdf
http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/Publications/Planning/Greystones%20Delgany%20Kilcoole/Draft/S
www.wicklow.ie Help us resist this by raising as much awareness of this issue as you can. Delgany is a rare jewel amongst Ireland's villages. It has a tremendous history inextricably linked with the LaTouche family and the legacy they left our country. We cannot let this happen to such a special place. There is a petition available to sign and send to all the local councillors as well as a list of Coucillors and their e-mail addresses. It is vital that they receive the petition - preferrably by e-mail before Friday, 31st August 2013! People in Greystones woke up to find the village changed and spoiled beyond recognition with the construction of the new Marina. Let's not allow the same fate befall Delgany!

The county manager..do you have a name for it?

Wicklow Will

Thanks Taltos and I couldn't agree more Sasso... It would be great if we could organise some public gathering to make obvious and visible the feelings in the area on this matter.

Wicklow Will

do I have a name for ..?.. (the county manager?)

Annasopra

Maudi wrote: »

The county manager..do you have a name for it?

Please don't use the pronoun "it" for a person - it's not appropriate.

Wicklow Will

At Mango Salsa - I didn't use the pronoun "it" to refer to the County Manager! I have a bit more breeding than that I think you'll find! I simply quoted the previous posters remarks, back to her, for clarification as I wasn't sure as to what or whom she referred.

Wicklow Will

FYI: I understand that the County Manager is Eddie Sheehy

Annasopra

Wicklow Will wrote: »

At Mango Salsa - I didn't use the pronoun "it" to refer to the County Manager! I have a bit more breeding than that I think you'll find! I simply quoted the previous posters remarks, back to her, for clarification as I wasn't sure as to what or whom she referred.

Hi Wicklow Will

I know that. I clearly quoted another poster.

If there is any further feedback on moderation from anyone please pm me as per the forum charter

Maudi

mango salsa wrote: »

Please don't use the pronoun "it" for a person - it's not appropriate.

Sorry.

Maudi

Wicklow Will wrote: »

FYI: I understand that the County Manager is Eddie Sheehy

OH JESUS !!!SHOULD HAVE KNOWN...his reputation precedes him...abandon hope..

greig

Wicklow county council have destroyed the local area, it is time for the planners heads on block. The harbour, mcdonalds beside 3 schools and now this. They really are making terrible decisions and should be stopped and removed from these positions.

Muff Richardson

can exact plans be seen before opposing anything??? this is all here say and conjecture. urban sprawl and growing population is a reality and needs to be dealt with, a quaint village with good logistics, plenty of development opportunity and 30 minutes from the city centre is going to have to succumb to
some form of development at some stage.

it's all very well for those in houses out there that are worried about their view of luscious green pastures but what about the rest of us that need housing close enough to the city without having to move to Westmeath or the likes.

all that talk of "you'd think we'd have learned our lesson from the Celtic tiger era" is nonsense and irrelevant. we have learned our lesson and you can be damn sure that if something like this is being proposed and goes ahead its a bloody necessity for a host social and economic reasons, and I would be fairly confident it will be a project done with care and due diligence because of what's happened in the past.

as i say the growing population is a reality that needs to be dealt with, get over it and think of it as a necessity and accept that much. I for one, welcome this news and hope it gets the green light sooner rather than later.

Langerland

Surely to God it makes sense to firstly force the completion of development of the vast area's of undeveloped, derelict lands around the Greystones / Delgany area before rezoning more lands for development? This is a bizarre move, unless there is something I am missing?

Muff Richardson

Langerland wrote: »

Surely to God it makes sense to firstly force the completion of development of the vast area's of undeveloped, derelict lands around the Greystones / Delgany area before rezoning more lands for development? This is a bizarre move, unless there is something I am missing?

you would think...but the reason is the same that we have all these empty idle buildings and houses all over the country yet we desperately need housing, schools and hospitals, its tied up in politics, red tape, banks, nama, legal battles etc.

some other investor has come up with a viable business plan for a development project free from any of that elsewhere.

Annasopra

OP

Your links were broken - I corrected one of them and cannot find the second - can you please check to see what the second link should be

Wicklow Will

In reply to Muff RIchardson: I can assure you it is not "conjecture and hearsay". If you took the trouble to puruse the LAP and the Couniy Manager's recommendations that the submissions for rezoning be approved, you might be more informed before making comments on something about which you are obviously ignorant of the facts. What I and those of us who are concerned with the fate of Delgany, have stated, is there in black and white for anyone to see, if only they would take the trouble to research it!

As for your comments about it being all very well for those of us in houses etc. but what about those of you who require housing close to the city: The prospect of rezoning in Delgany and the construction of inappropriate units in a village such as this, will not address the problems that people in your predicament face. Your issue is with the lending institutions and the difficulties people face in accessing mortgages. As one other poster here commented - they should finish the ghost estates before despoiling one of the few areas that was left RELATIVELY unscathed by the greed of the tiger years.

Your particular answer would appear to show very little sympathy with nature, rural life and sustainable development. It typifies the approach so prevalent in those who would tear down what befits the pastoral or idyllic simply to replace it with concrete sprawl. Once, what is there now is gone, it is lost and gone forever.

It is time to halt this juggernaut now, before it ploughs its merciless track through this little bit of heaven beloved by those of us who enjoy peace and tranquility!

Wicklow Will

Maudi wrote: »

OH JESUS !!!SHOULD HAVE KNOWN...his reputation precedes him...abandon hope..

Maudi, I can't comment on Mr Sheedy's reputation as I'd not heard of him before this matter arose. All I can say is that I would hope he would listen to the opinion of those of us who live in the area and want to preserve its intergrity for the future.

Wicklow Will

mango salsa wrote: »

OP

Your links were broken - I corrected one of them and cannot find the second - can you please check to see what the second link should be

Thanks Mango Salsa. One of the other Moderators removed part of the hyperlink inadvertnelty I think (see previous post by Taltos(?)

I've found the document to which it related and have uploaded it. This document contains, on pg 143, the rezoning application wiht the County Manager's recommendations, which has sparked this debate.

Taltos

I removed nothing
Am not a mod here so don't have the access - I was commenting also earlier that I couldn't open them - gosh trying to get me in trouble with Mango and DD and here I was being supportive for a change

Muff Richardson

Wicklow Will wrote: »

In reply to Muff RIchardson: I can assure you it is not "conjecture and hearsay". If you took the trouble to puruse the LAP and the Couniy Manager's recommendations that the submissions for rezoning be approved, you might be more informed before making comments on something about which you are obviously ignorant of the facts. What I and those of us who are concerned with the fate of Delgany, have stated, is there in black and white for anyone to see, if only they would take the trouble to research it!

I've read a good deal about it before seeing it on boards, my here say and conjecture was with regard to the outcome of the project, who knows what shape it will take, it may not be the monstrosity and destruction of nature that you foresee. the specifics such as building structure layout, numbers, landscaping etc of the development have not yet been made available. i'd imagine i know as much as you do at this stage, unless that is you are actually involved in the project which i somehow doubt.

Wicklow Will wrote: »

As for your comments about it being all very well for those of us in houses etc. but what about those of you who require housing close to the city: The prospect of rezoning in Delgany and the construction of inappropriate units in a village such as this, will not address the problems that people in your predicament face. Your issue is with the lending institutions and the difficulties people face in accessing mortgages. As one other poster here commented - they should finish the ghost estates before despoiling one of the few areas that was left RELATIVELY unscathed by the greed of the tiger years.

I live in a grand house in greystones and go through and frequent delgany regularly and have a huge fondness for the place.

finishing a ghost estate is a poor argument, a lot of them turned into ghost estates for a reason, nobody wanted them and had zero value attached to them logistically, Delgany on the other hand is quite the opposite. but i guess you see shoving a particular group of people into a segregated district out of sight from your precious Delgany. i think thats called ghettoising, its usually done by rich people who are so up their own you know whats and dont want to be living in close quarters to the what you might call "riff raff".

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Your particular answer would appear to show very little sympathy with nature, rural life and sustainable development.

rural life? that's the point, delgany is not rural and will have you in the city centre of the capital within 30 minutes, why should Delgany escape urban sprawl and development? is it because YOU live there and this now effects YOU? Blackrock where I am from originally had farmland and nature galore when I was growing up....all housing estates now out of necessity, and fortunately done quite tastefully.

The developers and planners are not all evil profit thirsty monsters so cool your jets with the images of running bambi and his mates out of the forest with a diesel bulldozer with smoke pouring out of it. They do factor that little consideration for nature into their planning.

and for the record, i am a regular hiker and climber and have a huge love and respect for nature and the world we live in, especially the Irish rural countryside. Delgany is NOT rural countryside.

Wicklow Will wrote: »

It typifies the approach so prevalent in those who would tear down what befits the pastoral or idyllic simply to replace it with concrete sprawl. Once, what is there now is gone, it is lost and gone forever.

It is time to halt this juggernaut now, before it ploughs its merciless track through this little bit of heaven beloved by those of us who enjoy peace and tranquility!

gimme a bucket and a break. I take it you took this powerful passionate stance when all the developments around those quaint tranquil villages in the midlands were taking place over the last 15 years.

the population is growing, wake up. the mé féin attitude in this country is alive and kicking...

Taltos

So having pride in your home.
Not wanting to see it irrevocably changed.
Trying to avoid another harbour debacle.

Yup - let's just ignore all the common sense arguments here, take a passive aggressive stance and dismiss the concerns of the existing community (even just a sample of it) because sure they are only living in the past and what do the uneducated masses know anyway.

Shocking.

Fiachra2

There is a scary but all too common assumption underlying this persons argument which is that this zoning is:

• Carefully planned having regard to all relevant economic and developmental arguments.
• Part of some greater strategy for the whole area
• Is in the interest of the local (or even the national) community

People commonly make this mistake but the reverse is the reality. None of the above apply here. There are vast tracts of zoned land in the Greystones area suitable for retail and or residential but they are not being built on. So why zone more land?
Quite simply because some landowner or developer wants it. Rest assured, the council planners didn't dream this up themselves and it is very unwise to assume they did.

Langerland

Muff Richardson wrote: »

gimme a bucket and a break. I take it you took this powerful passionate stance when all the developments around those quaint tranquil villages in the midlands were taking place over the last 15 years.

the population is growing, wake up. the mé féin attitude in this country is alive and kicking...

To be fair Muff, I think the ongoing Harbour issue is a little too raw. The Greystones / Delgany area has a severe eyesore as a legacy from the boom which, to be fair, most people I know were against and opposed.

I do take your point regarding development in the area to cater for growing populations, etc. However, I still don't see the point of rezoning lands when there are still vast areas of unused land between Charlesland and Edengate and also on the Blacklion side of the town. But as you say, it would be easier to rezone and bulldoze this area in Delgany rather than deal with the red tape associated with these lands. I hope this doesn't happen.

I'm sure Simon Harris TD will come on board

Maudi

Muff Richardson wrote: »

can exact plans be seen before opposing anything??? this is all here say and conjecture. urban sprawl and growing population is a reality and needs to be dealt with, a quaint village with good logistics, plenty of development opportunity and 30 minutes from the city centre is going to have to succumb to
some form of development at some stage.

it's all very well for those in houses out there that are worried about their view of luscious green pastures but what about the rest of us that need housing close enough to the city without having to move to Westmeath or the likes.

all that talk of "you'd think we'd have learned our lesson from the Celtic tiger era" is nonsense and irrelevant. we have learned our lesson and you can be damn sure that if something like this is being proposed and goes ahead its a bloody necessity for a host social and economic reasons, and I would be fairly confident it will be a project done with care and due diligence because of what's happened in the past.

as i say the growing population is a reality that needs to be dealt with, get over it and think of it as a necessity and accept that much. I for one, welcome this news and hope it gets the green light sooner rather than later.

Not really.do you consider the hugh harbour monolith "necessary" do you think the vast amount of empty housing estates "necessary"or all the half finished /abandoned houses/factorys "necessary"...the current council inc manager arent fit to over see a plan of this proportion..you want to see delgany left like bray or greystones harbour? Abandoned half finished and nobody in charge or responsible...i certainly DONT.

Muff Richardson

Maudi wrote: »

Not really.do you consider the hugh harbour monolith "necessary" do you think the vast amount of empty housing estates "necessary"or all the half finished /abandoned houses/factorys "necessary"...the current council inc manager arent fit to over see a plan of this proportion..you want to see delgany left like bray or greystones harbour? Abandoned half finished and nobody in charge or responsible...i certainly DONT.

can we please get off the Celtic tiger era collosul foul up that was all the mindless developments without an ounce of planning? are we never to develop again because of this time?

not once did I say any of those examples you give of half built this and that during the Celtic tiger were a necessity so I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

also, on the conspiracy theorist above that thinks any form of development has an evil underlying agenda only to line the pockets of those in charge, can we please give straight facts without just mindless they are out to get rich and do us and nature over stuff. you didn't give a single bit of factual information other than this. you also mention that there are plenty of other places available for rezoning in the area, just not in Delgany right, because this is where you don't want it so anywhere else.

again, the Celtic tiger time was madness and has very little place in this discussion other than to show how it shouldn't be done so can we give it up? its a weak argument against developing anywhere else ever again, and also said land is undoubtedly tied up in banks and legal battles, unfortunately they aren't sites available to be built on no questions asked instead of new developments that Delgany and the likes can offer.

can somebody please give a good reason why Delgany should not be developed outside of "its mine and I don't want anyone ruining it for me"??? because I haven't anything other than this and conspiracy theory claptrap with no facts regarding the project yet, convince me otherwise. even some bloody cavemans remains and the ancient ruins of his home buried around there would do as a good reason not to develop.

Maudi

Muff Richardson wrote: »

can we please get off the Celtic tiger era collosul foul up that was all the mindless developments without an ounce of planning? are we never to develop again because of this time?

not once did I say any of those examples you give of half built this and that during the Celtic tiger were a necessity so I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

also, on the conspiracy theorist above that thinks any form of development has an evil underlying agenda only to line the pockets of those in charge, can we please give straight facts without just mindless they are out to get rich and do us and nature over stuff. you didn't give a single bit of factual information other than this. you also mention that there are plenty of other places available for rezoning in the area, just not in Delgany right, because this is where you don't want it so anywhere else.

again, the Celtic tiger time was madness and has very little place in this discussion other than to show how it shouldn't be done so can we give it up? its a weak argument against developing anywhere else ever again, and also said land is undoubtedly tied up in banks and legal battles, unfortunately they aren't sites available to be built on no questions asked instead of new developments that Delgany and the likes can offer.

can somebody please give a good reason why Delgany should not be developed outside of "its mine and I don't want anyone ruining it for me"??? because I haven't anything other than this and conspiracy theory claptrap with no facts regarding the project yet, convince me otherwise. even some bloody cavemans remains and the ancient ruins of his home buried around there would do as a good reason not to develop.

Im dreadfully sorry but you seem to think the mistakes of the past "wont" happen again..because why?people are right to be frightened of this type of move and rightly so..we are the ones left in the "sh#$..when sisk or the like pull out..you say it wont ..shouldnt ..happen again..im saying it will..

Prof252

You're missing the point Muff.

Let me spell it out for you and all those who do not live in the exact vicinity or who fail to appreciate the preservation of this island's beauty.

1. It is an outstanding area of natural beauty and heritage. That means we leave it to remain so. We be very 'me fein' about that one.
2. Zoning for new housing and amenities are to be located and looked for more wisely and sensitively by the counsellors, planners etc. etc. That's their job. That's what they're paid for. Read that again: Wise. Sensitive. Respectable traits one would expect for a country that is borrowing billions to pay for itself.
3. What more 'facts' do you require?
Rezoning = development + pollution between the Glen of the Downs and Blackberry Lane. Be under no illusion.
4. I ask myself is there any rezoning planned to the front or rear of your 'grand house' in Greystones ? Just wondering ...................

Muff Richardson

Prof252 wrote: »

You're missing the point Muff.

Let me spell it out for you and all those who do not live in the exact vicinity or who fail to appreciate the preservation of this island's beauty.

1. It is an outstanding area of natural beauty and heritage. That means we leave it to remain so. We be very 'me fein' about that one.
2. Zoning for new housing and amenities are to be located and looked for more wisely and sensitively by the counsellors, planners etc. etc. That's their job. That's what they're paid for. Read that again: Wise. Sensitive. Respectable traits one would expect for a country that is borrowing billions to pay for itself.
3. What more 'facts' do you require?
Rezoning = development + pollution between the Glen of the Downs and Blackberry Lane. Be under no illusion.
4. I ask myself is there any rezoning planned to the front or rear of your 'grand house' in Greystones ? Just wondering ...................

I don't know what you've spelt out in the debate but 1-3 there just falls into what I said before about it just being a vested interest on the preservation of "your" village exactly as it is, again, let me spell this out, why should Delgany escape urban sprawl development when other villages with similar characteristics have not? I'm still waiting for a decent argument. As for the pollution, you have absolutely no idea that this will happen, your just making predictions here without any facts. Facts really help when putting an argument forth so can we stick to them? I have no idea that the area will not be polluted in some way as a result of development, which is why I am not saying it won't happen either but at least stick to what we know for sure. I totally agree with Maudi that there is cause for speculation or concern for some people because of what's happened in the past but let's wait and see what exactly is being developed before flat out rejecting the project.

as for 4, I live about 15 minutes walk from Delgany village, I would say that qualifies as being in the exact vicinty, from the plans the rezoning would take place in the rear of my house, I'd say I have as much reason to worry or right to say if this should go ahead as any of you. As I mentioned earlier this isn't the first time this has happened to me and my local area and I accepted it as a part of life with society changing and the surrounding landscape with it.

Cheeky Chops

The same crooks are in charge. That is why we do not trust this development.

Prof252

Wait and see what Muff? They haven't disclosed any more. That's the point.

No one is invited to the counsellors meeting on Monday, but when they rezone it Muff I hope you enjoy your walk/hike around there.

Maudi

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

The same crooks are in charge. That is why we do not trust this development.

Cheeky chops is right..the county manager ...jesus guys do some reseach on this guy and ye will see what we is on about.its all out there ...

Maudi

Muff Richardson wrote: »

I don't know what you've spelt out in the debate but 1-3 there just falls into what I said before about it just being a vested interest on the preservation of "your" village exactly as it is, again, let me spell this out, why should Delgany escape urban sprawl development when other villages with similar characteristics have not? I'm still waiting for a decent argument. As for the pollution, you have absolutely no idea that this will happen, your just making predictions here without any facts. Facts really help when putting an argument forth so can we stick to them? I have no idea that the area will not be polluted in some way as a result of development, which is why I am not saying it won't happen either but at least stick to what we know for sure. I totally agree with Maudi that there is cause for speculation or concern for some people because of what's happened in the past but let's wait and see what exactly is being developed before flat out rejecting the project.

as for 4, I live about 15 minutes walk from Delgany village, I would say that qualifies as being in the exact vicinty, from the plans the rezoning would take place in the rear of my house, I'd say I have as much reason to worry or right to say if this should go ahead as any of you. As I mentioned earlier this isn't the first time this has happened to me and my local area and I accepted it as a part of life with society changing and the surrounding landscape with it.

Why should delgany escape "urban sprawl"...your words muff.

Muff Richardson

Maudi wrote: »

Why should delgany escape "urban sprawl"...your words muff.

huh? yes they are my words. and?

Annasopra

Prof252 wrote: »

Wait and see what Muff? They haven't disclosed any more. That's the point.

No one is invited to the counsellors meeting on Monday, but when they rezone it Muff I hope you enjoy your walk/hike around there.

You can go and sit in on the council meeting by the way. It's public.

Wicklow Will

Hey Mango, that's good to know. Thanks for that. I tried to find out what time the meeting is at on Monday but didn't get a reply from the Council or the Councillors I contacted. You don't happen to know what time the meetings are held at do you? From Wicklow CoCo website they seem to vary.

Wicklow Will

Muff - you're a great man for asking for "facts" and trying to gloss over the disastrous monstrosities perpetrated on towns and villages during the "dark ages" (seeing as how you want us to get away from referring to the "celtic tiger" I'll refer to it as that from now on - is that any better?) And yes, you are right these developments happened all over Ireland not just in Greystones or Delgany - should I take it that the fact that it happened across the island thereby makes it 1) OK and 2) acceptable for developers to continue to perpetuate this folly again as though no lessons were to be learnt from the past? Surely this is what hindsight was given to us for - to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES!? Who was it who said "a smart man makes a mistake, learns from it but a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether"?

On another point, it could appear that you have some axe to grind with dear old Delgany? Would I be right? For it would be a very callous and sadly vitriolic individual who would - cheerfully and without a second thought - willingly and willfully wish upon such a place and its people the kind of fate, you do, on Delgany and its residents! It seems to me you advance the proposition of "two wrongs making a right" as the criteria by which we should plan our towns and villages. Most enlightened.

To close, I am intrigued by an individual who is so dedicated to the factual and desirous of his foils that they deal only in facts, that you would first claim to live in a "grand" house in Greystones and yet further on state that this rezoned land is as good as your own back garden and to be only a 15 minute walk from it? To me - and I'm a relatively fast walker of average leg length, these two sets of what you advance as "facts" don't stack up!

Enough of this verbal sword play - I suspect you of trying to waste the time and energy of those of us intent on the serious business of trying to do something worthwhile and of trying to make us your play things to while away your idle hours. Be done with it sir, and go find other baubles to trifle with and amuse yourself. I would also urge others here to conserve their energy and refrain from giving fuel to your fire!

Maudi

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Muff - you're a great man for asking for "facts" and trying to gloss over the disastrous monstrosities perpetrated on towns and villages during the "dark ages" (seeing as how you want us to get away from referring to the "celtic tiger" I'll refer to it as that from now on - is that any better?) And yes, you are right these developments happened all over Ireland not just in Greystones or Delgany - should I take it that the fact that it happened across the island thereby makes it 1) OK and 2) acceptable for developers to continue to perpetuate this folly again as though no lessons were to be learnt from the past? Surely this is what hindsight was given to us for - to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES!? Who was it who said "a smart man makes a mistake, learns from it but a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether"?

On another point, it could appear that you have some axe to grind with dear old Delgany? Would I be right? For it would be a very callous and sadly vitriolic individual who would - cheerfully and without a second thought - willingly and willfully wish upon such a place and its people the kind of fate, you do, on Delgany and its residents! It seems to me you advance the proposition of "two wrongs making a right" as the criteria by which we should plan our towns and villages. Most enlightened.

To close, I am intrigued by an individual who is so dedicated to the factual and desirous of his foils that they deal only in facts, that you would first claim to live in a "grand" house in Greystones and yet further on state that this rezoned land is as good as your own back garden and to be only a 15 minute walk from it? To me - and I'm a relatively fast walker of average leg length, these two sets of what you advance as "facts" don't stack up!

Enough of this verbal sword play - I suspect you of trying to waste the time and energy of those of us intent on the serious business of trying to do something worthwhile and of trying to make us your play things to while away your idle hours. Be done with it sir, and go find other baubles to trifle with and amuse yourself. I would also urge others here to conserve their energy and refrain from giving fuel to your fire!

Excellently put..so sort of like a boycott?

Wicklow Will

Maudi wrote: »

Excellently put..so sort of like a boycott?

Well I'm just saying not to get drawn into a circular argument that will exasperate one and has no prospect of a worthwhile conclusion.

Muff Richardson

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Muff - you're a great man for asking for "facts" and trying to gloss over the disastrous monstrosities perpetrated on towns and villages during the "dark ages" (seeing as how you want us to get away from referring to the "celtic tiger" I'll refer to it as that from now on - is that any better?) And yes, you are right these developments happened all over Ireland not just in Greystones or Delgany - should I take it that the fact that it happened across the island thereby makes it 1) OK and 2) acceptable for developers to continue to perpetuate this folly again as though no lessons were to be learnt from the past? Surely this is what hindsight was given to us for - to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES!? Who was it who said "a smart man makes a mistake, learns from it but a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether"?

bravo...another pointless tirade of irrelevant waffle which does nothing to support your argument against any kind of development in Delgany.

i've glossed over nothing and said several times that those times were pure madness. as i said that was then and this is now, does this mean no more development should take place anywhere or anytime in Ireland? Or just not in your precious Delgany which is the impression I am getting over and over.

You do realise that the area of outstanding natural beauty you referred to would be even more outstandingly beautiful if the house you are in wasn't built there in the first place? Why would development then be ok to house its present residents but never again anywhere else in the area?

Wicklow Will wrote: »

On another point, it could appear that you have some axe to grind with dear old Delgany? Would I be right? For it would be a very callous and sadly vitriolic individual who would - cheerfully and without a second thought - willingly and willfully wish upon such a place and its people the kind of fate, you do, on Delgany and its residents! It seems to me you advance the proposition of "two wrongs making a right" as the criteria by which we should plan our towns and villages. Most enlightened.

This is just plain stupid talk, I already said I have a great fondness for the entire area and frequent it regularly both in terms of the landscape and the amenities it offers. I've grown particularly fond of Romany Stone, lovely staff, great coffee and the bakery has the best bread in either Greystones or Delgany. I am actually somewhat confused about how somebody could have some axe to grind with a small village, its as much mine as it is yours although I do not live specifically in it. Don't try and open a them and us can of worms because that's pretty narrow minded and once again, it is not your Delgany, it is ours.

Wicklow Will wrote: »

To close, I am intrigued by an individual who is so dedicated to the factual and desirous of his foils that they deal only in facts, that you would first claim to live in a "grand" house in Greystones and yet further on state that this rezoned land is as good as your own back garden and to be only a 15 minute walk from it? To me - and I'm a relatively fast walker of average leg length, these two sets of what you advance as "facts" don't stack up!

Is this seriously the best defence you can come up with Miss Marple? a pointless and irrelevant attack on my integrity doubting my claims on where I live? I walk the dogs to Delgany and beyond regularly, it takes me 15 minutes to reach Delgany village. PM me and we can organise a stroll some day if you like and I'll allow you to humour yourself with a stopwatch...do yourself a favour and read over what you've written before pressing submit, this was just pathetic.

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Enough of this verbal sword play - I suspect you of trying to waste the time and energy of those of us intent on the serious business of trying to do something worthwhile and of trying to make us your play things to while away your idle hours. Be done with it sir, and go find other baubles to trifle with and amuse yourself. I would also urge others here to conserve their energy and refrain from giving fuel to your fire!

this is a discussion forum where people are entitled to discuss and express opinion, I suggest you try and organise some kind of local meeting for people opposed to the plans (that haven't been disclosed) and then you can start the merry bandwagon of protesters with no idea what exactly you are protesting against and for what reasons.

Until then, I will post and contribute to whatever forum I see fit and you have absolutely no right to tell anyone not to do so just because they don't share your opinion. You strike me as somebody who is not used to being spoken back to or disagreed with...that's something you need to work on.

Maudi wrote: »

Excellently put..so sort of like a boycott?

this was hilarious...how was your first day back at school Maudi? Get much homework for the weekend?

If you pair are what the developers are up against in terms of a campaign against their plans I'd say to anyone don't waste time and apply for that mortgage sooner rather than later, they'll be available in Delgany in no time.

Annasopra

folks - keep it civil - no personalised remarks

Annasopra

Well done

http://www.irishtimes.com/delgany-rezoning-proposal-deleted-from-local-area-plan-1.1513975

Fiachra2

Great outcome. (and a good row as well!:)