Harassment by residents committee

littleme2013

Hi all,

Looking for some advice. A residents association was recently set up in our estate. The majority of the houses in the estate are rental, so the owners are not there to look after lawns etc (so its is more of a house owners association than residents association). When the association went and got quotes for lawn cutting, the only company willing to take this job on would only do so on the basis that they would cut all front lawns (they did not want to keep track of who was to have their lawn cut and who was not to have it cut). As we are full time residents, are willing to cut our own front lawn and were cutting it up to this point, we said that we were not willing to pay somebody for something we are willing to do ourselves. As the contribution was supposed to be voluntary, we did not think this would be a problem. There was nothing in the legal documentation of the house purchase saying we had to pay an annual fee.
However, since then, we have been doorstepped by a particular member of this committee several times. He is quite arrogant towards us and went as far as naming and shaming us (in a not very nice way) at a residents meeting for non payment. He also sent a text around to other residents about a car I have outside my house, giving out the registration and asking for information about the car owner, which I would imagine he knew was mine or if he didn't know, could have found out very easily without texting 70 or so house owners. I did not get the text, but it was passed on to me!
At this point, I am feeling quite harassed. I refuse to pay money so that non-residents can have their lawns looked after while they are not there.
Any advice on how I should handle this?
Thanks!

markpb

Ignore him and he'll probably get bored and move on.

littleme2013

have tried ignoring him, but this is going on three years and getting worse.

ABajaninCork

A solicitor's letter might do the trick...

bumper234

littleme2013 wrote: »

have tried ignoring him, but this is going on three years and getting worse.

On your phone there will be a record function. Record EVERY conversation you have with him. If he comes to your door then video him he will soon stop coming near you.

jackieo2008

I am in a similar situation. Struggling to keep our heads above water the past few years as there is only one of us employed. Simply cannot afford to pay for something like this and like littleme2013, am quite prepared to do this myself. While our immediate neighbours are understanding at to our predicament, the residents assoc. is not and have also named us publicly (gave name and house number) as non paying. So, the whole place thinks we are cheapskates, whereas in reality, we haven't got the money for luxuries such as paying somebody else to cut our grass.

Would love to hear any ideas on how to get them to leave us alone!! and also don't want to be known as "the people who sent the solicitors letter" in the estate.

Do they have any right to demand money and "name and shame" people

littleme2013

Is it illegal for him to be doing this ?

ABajaninCork

AFAIK, the resident's committee is bang out of order, and can't do this. Like I've suggested - would a solicitor's letter telling them to cease and desist be helpful?

littleme2013

How much should it cost for a cease and desist letter ? Can I also legal tell the guys who cut the grass to stay off my property ?

bumper234

littleme2013 wrote: »

How much should it cost for a cease and desist letter ? Can I also legal tell the guys who cut the grass to stay off my property ?

They cannot slander you this way and yes they cannot trespass on your property.

Kristopherus

littleme2013 wrote: »

Is it illegal for him to be doing this ?

Yes imo. You are entitled to your good name.,

jackieo2008

If sending a solicitors letter was an option, would you have to prove slander ? I was named and shamed at a meeting and I would doubt it is in the minutes!
I always though that naming people for non payment of voluntary charges was not allowed.

questionmark?

OP somebody calling to your door requesting money that you don't owe and sending texts slandering your name sounds more like harassment/intimidation. Have a word down your local Garda station to see if they will do anything before speaking to a solicitor.

michael999999

littleme2013 wrote: »

Is it illegal for him to be doing this ?

Can you not knock on he's front door, and ask him to stop mentioning your name and sending text messages about you.

Maybe you turning up at he's house may get him thinking!

littleme2013

He doesnt live here. He only turns up at summer time and he goes back to where he came from for the rest of the year.

kieran.

If this is a residents association/committee and not a legal formed management company the have no rights to force you to pay anything. The company cutting the grass has no right to enter your propertyand is basically trespassing when they do so.

However I'm guessing the estate still needs to be maintained and the residents association is only doing what they think is right for the estate. The best solution in my opinion is not to send legal letters but instead attend the next meeting and make the point that it is unacceptable for the committee to be forcing people to accept the current situation and that an alternative must be sought.

I have been a member of my own estates management company and now residents association, if your not there to raise and argue your case at the meetings then you cant give out about the decisions been made at them. After all it is YOUR resident assocation.

michael999999

kieran. wrote: »

If this is a residents association/committee and not a legal formed management company the have no rights to force you to pay anything. The company cutting the grass has no right to enter your propertyand is basically trespassing when they do so.

However I'm guessing the estate still needs to be maintained and the residents association is only doing what they think is right for the estate. The best solution in my opinion is not to send legal letters but instead attend the next meeting and make the point that it is unacceptable for the committee to be forcing people to accept the current situation and that an alternative must be sought.

I have been a member of my own estates management company and now residents association, if your not there to raise and argue your case at the meetings then you cant give out about the decisions been made at them. After all it is YOUR resident assocation.

Not everyone has the time or interest to be in a resident committee.

Its he's choice, and he shouldn't be bullied by a few residence who like the sound of there own voice and are full of there own self importance.

If he wants to cut he's own lawns, let him be!

kieran.

I totally agree about his own lawns...... but what about the rest of the estate it needs to be maintained/managed and somebody has to do the work and pay for it too.

Paulw

kieran. wrote: »

I totally agree about his own lawns...... but what about the rest of the estate it needs to be maintained/managed and somebody has to do the work and pay for it too.

That's what the council are for. If there is no legally formed management company, then there is no legal obligation to pay a cent. It is the responsibility of the council to ensure that common areas are cut. You just need to chase your local public representatives. You are already paying for this work to be done, via the household charge and then the property tax.

littleme2013

For the record I am female. I agree with paying something but not 350 euro's for a 60 house estate and the fact that I am paying for 3/4 of the people who only live here less than 3 months of the year and also the fact he has called to the door demanding money , sent letters in a name and shame policy more than once and is now sending texts to other people about me and also talking about me and others by name at their meetings ? What am I to do ?

padma

They named and shamed you. Next meeting arrive on a horse. Walk in. Stand up. Tell them about the intimidation and harrassment. Warn them if it keeps up you'll be keeping the horse outside in your garden. Let them then worry about the costs of their houses plummeting.

kieran.

Unless he is in a council estate which it does not sound like there is no responsibility on the the council to maintain the open spaces. If there is no management company I can presume that the estate has been "Taken in Charge" by the local authority. Under this process the estates roads, sewerage lighting is taken in charge by the council however the responsibility for cutting the grass are not taken on by the council this procedure is detailed in the Roads Act 1993.

littleme2013

Mabe this is not a bad idea, I may try to get a white van and a bit of carpet to put on his lawn also. But seriously do I just go to the local Garda station and make a complaint or do I go and get a cease and desist ?

debabyjesus

Go to the next meeting and ask to speak. Let everyone know whats happening with this guy harassing you and that you intend to take action if it continues. Make it clear that you are capable of maintaining your own property and wont be paying into any group maintenance contract.

Any decent people there will respect you for speaking your mind. Do you really care what the rest think?

LFC Murphy

Paulw wrote: »

That's what the council are for. If there is no legally formed management company, then there is no legal obligation to pay a cent. It is the responsibility of the council to ensure that common areas are cut. You just need to chase your local public representatives. You are already paying for this work to be done, via the household charge and then the property tax.

As chair of our association I have to point out that this is no longer the case..... councils will only maintain lights, roads, sewer and lights... The grass is the residents responsibility. I know this as I have been fighting for the council to take our estate in charge for 4 years now..

With regards the caller, I would say that these sorts are in every association (we have a similar person, who I had to tackle as he nearly caused our landscaper walking off site this summer). Best to be polite and yes attend the next meeting to outline your grievance. Please don't tarnish us all with the same brush, we are trying to keep our estates looking tip top.

littleme2013

I agree there is a lot to be said for a tidy clean estate, but the charge is outragous and when tackled by other people at meetings who had got a lot cheaper quotes they said no that they wanted to stick with this guy who is the dearest out of the whole lot of them. My concern at this stage is what do I do legally at this stage go to the Garda first and make a formal complaint but this will go no where as the guy doesnt live here until the summer months. So do I go legal ? and if so how much roughly does this cost ?

Duckjob

debabyjesus wrote: »

Go to the next meeting and ask to speak. Let everyone know whats happening with this guy harassing you and that you intend to take action if it continues. Make it clear that you are capable of maintaining your own property and wont be paying into any group maintenance contract.

Any decent people there will respect you for speaking your mind. Do you really care what the rest think?

^this

He sounds like a classic bully, and the only way to deal with bullies is to confront them.

If he's carrying on like that you can be sure he's getting on other people's wrong side as well, so if you challenge him and put him in his place you might find you get more support from other residents than you expect.

michael999999

debabyjesus wrote: »

Go to the next meeting and ask to speak. Let everyone know whats happening with this guy harassing you and that you intend to take action if it continues. Make it clear that you are capable of maintaining your own property and wont be paying into any group maintenance contract.

Any decent people there will respect you for speaking your mind. Do you really care what the rest think?

And tell them that if your forced to pay for cutting your own grass, you will have to set up a scrap collection area on your front lawn to fund it!

The Phantom Jipper

littleme2013 wrote: »

I agree there is a lot to be said for a tidy clean estate, but the charge is outragous and when tackled by other people at meetings who had got a lot cheaper quotes they said no that they wanted to stick with this guy who is the dearest out of the whole lot of them. My concern at this stage is what do I do legally at this stage go to the Garda first and make a formal complaint but this will go no where as the guy doesnt live here until the summer months. So do I go legal ? and if so how much roughly does this cost ?

Sounds sketchy enough. You'd almost think he had a financial interest in the company and was trying to send a bit of business their way.

kieran.

littleme2013 wrote: »

For the record I am female. I agree with paying something but not 350 euro's for a 60 house estate and the fact that I am paying for 3/4 of the people who only live here less than 3 months of the year and also the fact he has called to the door demanding money , sent letters in a name and shame policy more than once and is now sending texts to other people about me and also talking about me and others by name at their meetings ? What am I to do ?

€350 per year is mad money for a 60 house estate unless there is a formal/ornamental garden. Our Estate is 46 houses and cost approx 2500-3000 per year for grass cutting, maintaining the planted areas and painting fences etc...... Naming you for non payment at meetings, I cant see anything wrong there as he is just reporting the facts

debabyjesus

littleme2013 wrote: »

I agree there is a lot to be said for a tidy clean estate, but the charge is outragous and when tackled by other people at meetings who had got a lot cheaper quotes they said no that they wanted to stick with this guy who is the dearest out of the whole lot of them. My concern at this stage is what do I do legally at this stage go to the Garda first and make a formal complaint but this will go no where as the guy doesnt live here until the summer months. So do I go legal ? and if so how much roughly does this cost ?

Why hide behind a solicitor? Going legal doesnt make sense to me unless you make your position clear in public first and they still harass you for payment afterwards. Have you addressed a meeting already?

Big Bag of Chips

Have you spoken to him at all?

Who agreed that everyone would pay this fee? Was everyone in the estate consulted and agreed to it, or was there a discussion where other options were put forward? Was it just decided on by a select few, and others not given an option? Do you go to the meetings?

Have you told him you are not going to pay, and the reason for not paying?

To be honest, it sounds like a very messy, unworkable agreement anyway, and I'd guess you're not the only one who hasn't paid. Are you the only one who has been named and shamed?

I think before you go to the guards or a solicitor your first port of call should be the either the residents association committee, or him directly. Try to sort it out first before being "that" couple!

It's always difficult in situations like this, and committees like this seem to always attract one power hungry, "sergeant major" type... I don't envy your position.

jd

littleme2013 wrote: »

the only company willing to take this job on would only do so on the basis that they would cut all front lawns (they did not want to keep track of who was to have their lawn cut and who was not to have it cut).

First time I've heard of a resident's committee organising the cutting of front lawns. Common areas yeah, but front lawns

anncoates

Are you confusing a residents committee with a management comosny , OP?

And are you talking about people's lawns only, or common green areas?

foggy_lad

jd wrote: »

First time I've heard of a resident's committee organising the cutting of front lawns. Common areas yeah, but front lawns

The residents association have been persuaded to choose the dearest company for grass cutting and they would only do the work if all residents front gardens were included (most likely to bump up the costs). I would go to a meeting and ask this person directly in front of all there what connection he has with the company that he chose to cut the grass.

Markcheese

padma wrote: »

They named and shamed you. Next meeting arrive on a horse. Walk in. Stand up. Tell them about the intimidation and harrassment. Warn them if it keeps up you'll be keeping the horse outside in your garden. Let them then worry about the costs of their houses plummeting.

Possible but a bit drastic .... And what are you going to do with the horse after it's eaten yr little bit of grass

jimmycrackcorm

kieran. wrote: »

€350 per year is mad money for a 60 house estate unless there is a formal/ornamental garden. Our Estate is 46 houses and cost approx 2500-3000 per year for grass cutting, maintaining the planted areas and painting fences etc...... Naming you for non payment at meetings, I cant see anything wrong there as he is just reporting the facts

He's not simply stating facts otherwise he could also state facts such as that the sky is blue and water is wet. What he is doing is harassing and attempting to bully the op into a scheme when the op has already indicated he will not take part.

I'd attend the meeting to make my point and also say that any following harassment such as the text will result in a visit to the solicitor.

Big Bag of Chips

Btw... Any rental property that I lived in we were responsible for maintaining the lawns.

I never heard of hiring a contractor in to cut every lawn in an estate..... What ever happened to the young entrepreneurs going around offering to cut the grass for a fiver?

Markcheese

foggy_lad wrote: »

The residents association have been persuaded to choose the dearest company for grass cutting and they would only do the work if all residents front gardens were included (most likely to bump up the costs). I would go to a meeting and ask this person directly in front of all there what connection he has with the company that he chose to cut the grass.

If a lot of the owners on the estate aren't full time residents then it would suit them to have a company to keep front lawns cut , but wouldn't mean that it suits you or other resident owners...

awec

This thing where the grass company refused to do the work unless all lawns were included is confusing me.

Is the grass cutting market so lucrative at the moment that a grass cutter will turn down business if it's not inclusive of every lawn in an estate?

I have a hard time believing that to be true. I also don't believe for a second that keeping a list of which houses are to be cut in the scheme and which aren't is difficult.

bonzer1again

If it's not a question of the amount and more an issue of the harrasment...why dont you pay some of the neighbours kids to cut your lawn....preferably a kid belonging to someone on the committee.

Slutmonkey57b

Op, this man cannot name and shame you for non payment because you are under no obligation to pay anything.

Like others have said, collect evidence, video him, attend the next meeting and state if the harassment does not stop you will go to the police. Solicitors are expensive, the police are free. This man is intimidating and harassing you. Don't put up with it and don't appease him.

the_syco

Goto the next meeting, and let it be known that should the harassment continue, you'll have no other option but to file harassment charges against the committee that he is representing. Divide and conquer.

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Sounds sketchy enough. You'd almost think he had a financial interest in the company and was trying to send a bit of business their way.

Check out the company in cro.ie and see if he's listed in the company. Sounds like a sure way to gain money. If he is listed, see if you can report his business. Would I be wrong calling this name & shaming to get people to pay this "voluntary" funding as extortion?

Del2005

kieran. wrote: »

€350 per year is mad money for a 60 house estate unless there is a formal/ornamental garden. Our Estate is 46 houses and cost approx 2500-3000 per year for grass cutting, maintaining the planted areas and painting fences etc...... Naming you for non payment at meetings, I cant see anything wrong there as he is just reporting the facts

If it was a management company or their management agent naming and shaming I'd have no issues, but the law would. This is a residents committee which has decided to do something which the OP doesn't want to do, as they are capable of doing it themselves. The residents committee has no power to take money off anyone never mind hassle then.

OP if he won't leave you alone attend the next meeting and as already said explain your reasons. Also ask to see the books of the residents committee and ask about the grass cutters insurance etc. make it as much a hassle for them as they are for you. If he still hassles you straight to the cop shop and report him, keep a record of contacts from now on.

D3PO

kieran. wrote: »

If this is a residents association/committee and not a legal formed management company the have no rights to force you to pay anything. The company cutting the grass has no right to enter your propertyand is basically trespassing when they do so.

However I'm guessing the estate still needs to be maintained and the residents association is only doing what they think is right for the estate. The best solution in my opinion is not to send legal letters but instead attend the next meeting and make the point that it is unacceptable for the committee to be forcing people to accept the current situation and that an alternative must be sought.

I have been a member of my own estates management company and now residents association, if your not there to raise and argue your case at the meetings then you cant give out about the decisions been made at them. After all it is YOUR resident assocation.

Why should the OP go to the meeting ? They don't have to have any interest in a residents association or care what the decisions they make are. They also do not have to pay a cent to them or any other organization on a power trip.

Nobody has the right to intimidate or try and force somebody to pay money they don't legally have to and they should not have to tell the association more than once they are not willing to pay.

OP go to the gardai lodge a complaint, drop a letter in the door of this idiots house and advise you have made a formal complaint to the gardai about harassment and that if he comes to your door regarding money again or mentions your name for non payment at any meeting that you will be getting a solicitor to take a case against him for slander / libel (depending on how your good name is tarnished)

don't let this little boll0x try and bully you.

Pawwed Rig

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I never heard of hiring a contractor in to cut every lawn in an estate..... What ever happened to the young entrepreneurs going around offering to cut the grass for a fiver?

The only time I heard of contractors being hired is for common areas. I have never heard of them going into individual houses.

You don't see people going house to house mowing lawns anymore do you? Or window cleaners. They used to be very common, you would think they would have made a return due to all the unemployment about

wexie

Just tell them you have no intention of paying the 350 to get someone to cut your grass for you, but that you're happy to cut 1/60th of the common green spaces.

Which will obviously be objected to as it would be too hard to administrate for the poor landscaper. In which case you say : fine I'll just cut my own then

Lantus

This doesn't make sense. Lawns by definition are typically 'private' property. I have a front lawn and no one can cut it and then extort me for money in much the same way you cannot just wash a car and then hold out your hand.

The OP has been specific that lawns are been cut. How???

Are there any large common areas being dealt with? Please clarify.

bazza1

Twice a year our residents group have an estate clean up. Everyone gets out and cuts grass in common areas, clears drains, tidies trees checks for graffiti etc. This costs nothing and grows community spirit. We have had community BBQs and street parties after the clean ups. We get the kids invoved also. Could you not suggest this at the next meeting?

ABajaninCork

bazza1 wrote: »

Twice a year our residents group have an estate clean up. Everyone gets out and cuts grass in common areas, clears drains, tidies trees checks for graffiti etc. This costs nothing and grows community spirit. We have had community BBQs and street parties after the clean ups. We get the kids invoved also. Could you not suggest this at the next meeting?

There's something similar on our estate, although we don't have street parties/BBQ's! The residents pay for the green to be cut, but clean-ups are taken care of by themselves.

I think it's a great idea, and well worth suggesting.

markpb

bazza1 wrote: »

Twice a year our residents group have an estate clean up. Everyone gets out and cuts grass in common areas

If the grass in your estate is only cut twice a year, you either have no grass or a little piece of rainforest where the grass used to be.