NFL Coach's View of Rugby

P_1

Jedwardian wrote: »

1. Move the goalposts to the dead ball line rather than the try line. It would basically takes the goalposts out of play and gives teams no obstruction when attacking/defending the try line. Also, penalties awarded between the 10 metre and half way line are often now within kickers range. Moving the posts back to the dead ball line would theoretically mean teams would have to go for the corner more since kicks at goal from distance may become out of range. It does a little to promote attacking rugby.

2. Modify Rugby League's 40-20 rule into a Union setting. In League, if a team kicks the ball out of play from within their own 40 metre line to within their opponents 20 metre, they get head and feed into a scrum from where the ball went out of play. In Rugby Union, this could be adapted from kicking from within the 10 metre line in your own half to the opposition 22 and the reward being a lineout on your own throw. This rewards accurate kicking and also means defences must move a player back to combat this. Less players in the defensive line makes attacking easier.

3. Re-examine the size of the ball. Ball handling in Rugby League and American Football seems, without a scientific study on my part to back it up, to be of a higher standard than Rugby Union. Balls in those sports are more pointed, lighter, easier to carry and pass. A tweak in the size of the ball doesn't change the fabric of the sport but if it reduces ball handling errors and makes the game faster and more open, it should be looked at in my opinion.

1. Interesting idea but I can't see it working too well given the difference in the size of the in-goal areas of different grounds. Imagine that in Murrayfield, a penalty on the 10 meter line would be a Goliath of a kick.

2. It works for league I'll grant you that but it could devalue a defensive penalty.

3. The ball is fine as it is

irishbucsfan

Jedwardian wrote: »

http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/01/18/an-nfl-coach-looks-at-rugby/

This is what it all boils down to for me. In the greater scheme of things, rugby clubs aren't competing with each other, the sport is competing with other forms of entertainment be it televised football, reality shows, live music.

Rugby is a relatively young sport given that it's been professional for less than 20 years. It would be wise to take pointers from, and learn from the mistakes of, more established professional sports like Football, American Football, Aussie Rules and Rugby League on how to cater for a larger audience.

I don't agree with the coach's views about knock ons in open play and splitting the game into quarters. I do think certain things could easily be implemented without changing the fabric of the game. For example:

1. Move the goalposts to the dead ball line rather than the try line. It would basically takes the goalposts out of play and gives teams no obstruction when attacking/defending the try line. Also, penalties awarded between the 10 metre and half way line are often now within kickers range. Moving the posts back to the dead ball line would theoretically mean teams would have to go for the corner more since kicks at goal from distance may become out of range. It does a little to promote attacking rugby.

2. Modify Rugby League's 40-20 rule into a Union setting. In League, if a team kicks the ball out of play from within their own 40 metre line to within their opponents 20 metre, they get head and feed into a scrum from where the ball went out of play. In Rugby Union, this could be adapted from kicking from within the 10 metre line in your own half to the opposition 22 and the reward being a lineout on your own throw. This rewards accurate kicking and also means defences must move a player back to combat this. Less players in the defensive line makes attacking easier.

3. Re-examine the size of the ball. Ball handling in Rugby League and American Football seems, without a scientific study on my part to back it up, to be of a higher standard than Rugby Union. Balls in those sports are more pointed, lighter, easier to carry and pass. A tweak in the size of the ball doesn't change the fabric of the sport but if it reduces ball handling errors and makes the game faster and more open, it should be looked at in my opinion.

1. No thanks. It would mean uniformity in pitches and that's not something we can do.

2. More kicking is not going to excite fans. If anything they'll reduce kicking with the trial law of allowing a mark anywhere in your own half.

3. If making the ball smaller would improve things then that'd be fine. If it means teams can kick it 80 meters easilly then not thanks.

.ak

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

irishbucsfan

Well to be fair there's a guy on the bench for Leinster u19s today called Tom Brady. So we are taking SOME measures to make the sports more similar.

awec

The lack of contested breakdowns makes it boring for me. It's the same reason that I can't watch rugby league. In fact it's worse than rugby league given that everything stops after each down and everyone re-lines up again.

Sure it takes about 5 hours for them to get through the superbowl. How long of that is actually play?

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

The lack of contested breakdowns makes it boring for me. It's the same reason that I can't watch rugby league. In fact it's worse than rugby league given that everything stops after each down and everyone re-lines up again.

Sure it takes about 5 hours for them to get through the superbowl. How long of that is actually play?

There is about 11 minutes of football in an NFL game.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There is about 11 minutes of football in an NFL game.

That's the problem for me.

And it's broken down into 5 second segments.

Bores the face clean off me.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

That's the problem for me.

And it's broken down into 5 second segments.

Bores the face clean off me.

Ditto. The wife dragged me to one if the college games in Donnybrook last year and I did make an effort to get into it. But try as I might I couldn't. We'd been there over 30 mins and the clock hadn't even moved 10 mins. It was excruciating.

Pudsy33

I love the nfl and college football, and I firmly believe anyone who sits down and watches a game with someone who can talk them through the intricacies, will start to enjoy it.

That's said, rugby is my first love and I don't want to see it dumbed down to attract an audience. The rugby world cup is already the 3rd biggest event in the world.

irishbucsfan

I enjoy watching the NFL and college football and have done so for 10 years now. Hence my username. I was actually posting in this thread while watching the Bucs/Dolphins game yesterday.

But rugby is a superior sport in almost every area. The NFL is just a better business run by a few very very intelligent businessmen.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hence my username.

For the first year that I posted here, I thought you were from Athlone.

Macy0161

Hagz wrote: »

It's unrealistic, but it's true. The only thing I wan't to change is the scrum, but you have to be very cautious when you fiddle with that as it's an imperative part of the game.

If anything, what happened with the scrum since the 1990's shows what messing with it and/ or not enforcing the rules can do to elements of the game!

Nermal

Suggestions for the NFL:

- you do not need separate teams for attack and defence, or a guy just to kick. Players of sports in other countries are expected to perform many tasks well.
- as you will not be having squads of people running on and off the field, you will now be able to reduce the play clock to 5 seconds, removing commercial breaks other than between the quarters.
- finally, given (1) and (2) above, players with the aerobic capacity and size of a rhino will no longer be playing, so helmets and pads may be dispensed with and players may finally learn to tackle correctly.

jamiedav2011

Nermal wrote: »

Suggestions for the NFL:

- you do not need separate teams for attack and defence, or a guy just to kick. Players of sports in other countries are expected to perform many tasks well.
- as you will not be having squads of people running on and off the field, you will now be able to reduce the play clock to 5 seconds, removing commercial breaks other than between the quarters.
- finally, given (1) and (2) above, players with the aerobic capacity and size of a rhino will no longer be playing, so helmets and pads may be dispensed with and players may finally learn to tackle correctly.

Know you're being facetious here, but tackling correctly is subjective!
Some of the tackling in NFL is insane, that's a good part of the reason why it's America's #1 sport.

I don't understand why the comparison between NFL & rugby crops up so often, they're completely different games, with almost completely different skillsets.

Hazys

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Know you're being facetious here, but tackling correctly is subjective!
Some of the tackling in NFL is insane, that's a good part of the reason why it's America's #1 sport.

I don't understand why the comparison between NFL & rugby crops up so often, they're completely different games, with almost completely different skillsets.

Exactly, the 49ers assistant wasn't comparing the game of rugby and the game of football. He was comparing them as entertainment products.

Even if you don't want to change the rules on the field of the game rugby, there is so much that can be done to make the game more exciting as an entertainment product.

Nearly all decisions in the NFL are based on making the game more exciting, therefore more fans and more profitable (Although lately its about safety, probably mostly out of the fear of getting sued). Rule changes usually favor the offense.

The salary cap and the best draft picks given to the worst teams keeps the league the most competitive league in all sports. More games in the NFL are decided by the last score than any other team field sport.

The game is stop start but watching it on TV you don't notice at all (you do in the stadium). The average play takes 6 seconds and after each play there is about 20 seconds in-between each play. The 20 seconds between each play is taken up by a replay of the previous play, sideline reporters, mic'd up players, stats, highlights from other games, etc.

The league is only played from September to February but fans are engaged all year round with televising of the Draft, Combine, pro bowl, hall of fame, training camp, etc. Other things like ridiculous amount of access the media has to players, there is constant trades and speculation which means the NFL is on TV 24/7. Access to game highlights and NFL content is free and available immediately. Also Fantasy football is huge too.

One of the problems the NFL is facing now with how good the TV product has become, is that its starting to hurt stadium attendance so thats something they are trying to fix.

Nermal

I would like to see an equivalent of HBO's Hard Knocks, though I know they're having trouble getting teams to do it.

Swiwi.

Jedwardian wrote: »

It already is. It's competing with all forms of entertainment for our money. Do I watch the Pro 12 on RTE or Coronation Street on TV3? Do I go to the RDS to see Leinster play or the o2 for Leonard Cohen?

I'd argue that rugby isn't yet commercially viable. Just a month ago "less than half the 3,700 available tickets (for the Aviva Stadium) were sold meaning the board only managed to make €14 million after expecting to bank around €40 million". Thomond Park hasn't been a financial success. The Heineken Cup split is all about increasing revenues for English and French teams. In the Aviva Premiership, only Leicester, Northampton, Gloucester and Exeter are profitable. NZ lost about £15m on the 2011 Rugby World Cup.

Ideally Rugby would cater for the players only but that won't pay the bills. More commercialization and changing of the rules (like the poorly conceived ELVs) is inevitable to make the game more spectator and television friendly.

The RWC made a huge profit...but the host nation only gets to keep the money from ticket sales. The value to NZ from finally winning the damn thing would be huge for jersey sales etc, though.

I don't think you can compare concerts with rugby etc. In this country, no matter how attractive rugby is, (English) soccer & GAA will always have a bigger following.

I think rugby has put a slow down on endless tinkering with the laws, after the farce of the ELVs, it's more revisiting the interpretations, although I do like the new scrum call.

Swiwi.

I actually quite like the posts where they are - adds a bit to the tactics, and also to the skill of the defending team. I remember once taking a clearing kick from the in-goal area, and watching in horror as the ball hit the upright and bounced back in goal. I can't find video footage, but I remember Tana Umaga cheekily and deliberately scoring against the goalpost too.

irishbucsfan

Also there was that try in the Toulouse/Leinster semi final. If I'm remembering the right game.

ArmaniJeanss

Pudsy33 wrote: »

That's said, rugby is my first love and I don't want to see it dumbed down to attract an audience. The rugby world cup is already the 3rd biggest event in the world.

Under what metric; viewership, money generated, fans in attendance?

Assuming FIFAWC and the summer Olympics are the first two, I'd still have thought there were a good half dozen events that are bigger than the RWC, great as it is.

****************
Re NFL I think the mistake most people make is by looking at the Superbowl as their first game. It can be a self indulgent mess and the stopping/starting & general lack of flow is at its most extreme. Seems counter intuitive but the biggest game of the year is actually your worst possible introduction.

Watching a regular season game week with 4 or 5 games on at once is a much better way to start watching.

baker59

Nermal wrote: »

I would like to see an equivalent of HBO's Hard Knocks, though I know they're having trouble getting teams to do it.

Completely agree. Would be a great way to market teams and get even more players as household names; Plus we might see more gems like 'manic agression'.

They wouldn't need as many cameras/mics etc since the squad is about a third of the size. (estimate here) Training camp's 80 vs rugby preseason 30?

Which broadcaster would have the funds though.

irishbucsfan

Josh Cribbs was released there yesterday. He was pretty good for a while. Then he was knocked unconscious by this tackle and was never the same since (after he was cut by the Browns, he was picked up by the Raiders): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7Ob5bwBiQgc

There are a few things to note here. His release has been swept under the rug. But the truth of it is that a guy with a history of concussion in the NFL has their value massively reduced because of the laws that are being introduced due to concussion, particularly one who plays a role with such a massive potential for head on impact. It was just a shame that they cut their ties with someone this dedicated so quickly.

But all of that is irrelevant really. What I noticed looking at all of this is a perfect example of EXACTLY why I don't want rugby going the way of the NFL.

A touching moment as he was laid out on the field, the player of both teams visibly struck by it, and both teams take a knee either side and (in typical American fashion) say a prayer for him. The perfect opportunity for the commentators to take a break for a message from their sponsors.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Also there was that try in the Toulouse/Leinster semi final. If I'm remembering the right game.

You mean the one in the first few minutes when Toulouse chased their penalty and scored a try? Absolutely. We were playing a handicap straight away... Added to that H-Cup drama allright.

justsomebloke

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But all of that is irrelevant really. What I noticed looking at all of this is a perfect example of EXACTLY why I don't want rugby going the way of the NFL.

just as a matter of interest in what way do you not want rugby going the same way as NFL

astonaidan

I actually enjoy American Football and like I see the comparisons with rugby but regards global sports rugby has a huge advantage in that its alot easier to get involved with as you dont have to go out and buy aload of gear just to play it.
Get yourself a pair off boots head to your local club and within 3 weeks you will be getting gametime at some level.
American Football just does not have this

irishbucsfan

justsomebloke wrote: »

just as a matter of interest in what way do you not want rugby going the same way as NFL

Sorry my post wasn't very clear. It's the bit at the end.

A touching moment as he was laid out on the field, the player of both teams visibly struck by it, and both teams take a knee either side and (in typical American fashion) say a prayer for him. The perfect opportunity for the commentators to take a break for a message from their sponsors.