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Alcohol costs the state €1.7 Billion a year!Call for more taxes.

  • 23-08-2013 01:30PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0823/469840-alcohol-taxes/
    A Consultant Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist has said that taxes on the off-licence sector should be increased.
    Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Dr Bobby Smyth, a board member of Alcohol Action Ireland, said .......Despite the fact that drink costs €3.7bn in alcohol-related harm, we only take €2bn in tax from drinkers, so it does seem odd that as a society we seem unwilling to ask drinkers to pay for the costs of the consequences of their own behaviour."

    So do you believe that alcohol should be taxed more to pay for the damage it does?
    I do, I fail to see why drinking and smoking which cost more to the state in damage done than they bring in with tax should be subsidized by non drinkers/smokers.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Days 298


    So do you believe that alcohol should be taxed more?

    No.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    :eek: alcohol here is taxed the most in the EU , why more tax it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Why the hell should i pay more for alcohol just to pay for idiots that cannot control their alcohol intake and get sick because of their stupidity.

    This is beyond ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    zenno wrote: »
    Why the hell should i pay more for alcohol just to pay for idiots that cannot control their alcohol intake and get sick because of their stupidity.

    This is beyond ridiculous.

    You realise you pay for it regardless, right?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,782 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0823/469840-alcohol-taxes/
    A Consultant Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist has said that taxes on the off-licence sector should be increased.
    Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Dr Bobby Smyth, a board member of Alcohol Action Ireland, said .......Despite the fact that drink costs €3.7bn in alcohol-related harm, we only take €2bn in tax from drinkers, so it does seem odd that as a society we seem unwilling to ask drinkers to pay for the costs of the consequences of their own behaviour."

    So do you believe that alcohol should be taxed more to pay for the damage it does?
    I do, I fail to see why drinking and smoking which cost more to the state in damage done than they bring in with tax should be subsidized by non drinkers/smokers.

    I doubt the bolded bit is actually a 'fact', it's likely a figure they've pulled from their arses and massaged to make as big as possible.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    zenno wrote: »
    Why the hell should i pay more for alcohol just to pay for idiots that cannot control their alcohol intake and get sick because of their stupidity.

    This is beyond ridiculous.
    Well the argument goes like this, alcohol is costing the state €1,700,000,000 per year, who should pay? Those who purchase it, or everybody regardless of whether they drink or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Maybe if you changed the thread title to 'alcohol abuse' you'd get somewhat closer to having a point.

    And why only the off licenses? Alcohol in pubs restaurants and hotels is okay is it?

    Alcohol consumption in and of itself costs the state absolutely nothing....nada zip zilch niente nyet....
    So do you believe that alcohol should be taxed more to pay for the damage it does?

    Nope, not one bit


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    wexie wrote: »
    Maybe if you changed the thread title to 'alcohol abuse' you'd get somewhat closer to having a point.

    And why only the off licenses? Alcohol in pubs restaurants and hotels is okay is it?

    Alcohol consumption in and of itself costs the state absolutely nothing....nada zip zilch niente nyet....



    Nope, not one bit

    It does, alcohol related illness, deaths, absence from work, accidents etc cost the state €1.7 billion.
    That €1.7 could be spent a lot more productively, so why shouldn't those who drink have to pay for the damage it causes?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Seachmall wrote: »
    You realise you pay for it regardless, right?

    Unfortunately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Days 298


    Do the stats include the money the state takes in rates from pubs, nightclubs, restaurants, off licences, various taxes paid by employees, employers and all other spin off trade and taxes such as taxis. Or have the figures been made to make the cost of alcohol related harm (very vague?) as high as possible and the tax take as low as possible. Drink is cheaper elsewhere in Europe.

    F*ck off nannies!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    we share the burden becasue thats what society does. you dont get to pick and choose who you help and who you dont. Fit people help pay for the damage obese people do to themselves, non drivers help pay for roads, people without children help pay for primary schools.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,017 Mod ✭✭✭✭yoyo


    I love this notion that all alcohol problems will disappear if it's made more expensive and also only the off licenses are to blame (sure no one ever gets drunk in pubs or clubs thanks to the "responsible" publicans).. If there is anything that should be higher taxed, I would say gambling. Some of those ads for smartphone apps/websites for gambling are shocking, and I think gambling is as serious an addiction and I would consider worse than alcohol. They don't have any "game responsibly" spiel you hear on all TV alcohol ads and also "glamourize" the idea of gambling (which is what the cigarette and alcohol companies are not allowed to do?).
    Of course I don't agree with any of this nanny state crap, as adults people need to take responsibility be it drinking, gambling smoking or whatever. Alcohol is already expensive enough over here and doesn't need to be made more expensive. How do you deal with the idiots who hurt themselves/are hospitalized due to booze? Bill them for it maybe? That would seem like the common sense approach. It's not as if the ones who cannot afford drink won't go to whatever means to get it (crime, shoplifting etc.) if they are addicted, likewise with other addictions.

    Nick


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,039 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    All this drink talk is making me thirsty


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 829 ✭✭✭smellmepower


    VFI must be delighted with this report,and their government cronies behind it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    It does, alcohol related illness, deaths, absence from work, accidents etc cost the state €1.7 billion.
    That €1.7 could be spent a lot more productively, so why shouldn't those who drink have to pay for the damage it causes?

    All of which are due to alcohol abuse. A responsible adult, with responsible alcohol consumption will rarely case or suffer any of these.

    Tell me why I should pay more for beer, whiskey wine etc because there are morons out there that go out and get drunk and then start picking fights, hop in the car etc. etc. etc. ?

    By that logic then we should also start increasing taxes on fast food, Toyota Glanza's and shellsuits.....


  • Administrators Posts: 54,948 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Should we tax obese people more on the food they buy?

    Making things more expensive will solve nothing. It will just push people to buy the cheapest stuff they can find.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Well the argument goes like this, alcohol is costing the state €1,700,000,000 per year, who should pay? Those who purchase it, or everybody regardless of whether they drink or not.

    Right, fair enough, you have a valid point. I agree, people that don't drink alcohol should most definitely not have to pay for this.

    Well i suppose i may as well just bite my tongue and pay the extra tax so, if it comes in, seeing that i am a moderate drinker. But what next ? something else will come in again after this to hike the prices.

    @ awec
    Should we tax obese people more on the food they buy?

    Making things more expensive will solve nothing. It will just push people to buy the cheapest stuff they can find.

    Jesus no, not dutch gold. i'd give the beer up once and for all if i could only afford that crud.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    When an organisation called "Alcohol Action Ireland" brings out a figure of €3.7bn for "Alcohol-related harm", I'm immediately skeptical.

    Until they post a breakdown of this information, I'm going to assume that figure includes spurious calculations like the productivity lost from hangovers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    This smacks of made up sh*t from lobby groups trying to get the government to help push people back into the pubs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Tax will fix everything.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Maybe if they broke down this 3.7 figure that they somehow came up with, then it would be easier to tackle the problem. Why not work on what is causing this number to be so high instead of coming up with stupid suggestions like a one size fits magical tax that will miraculously fix the problem.

    There are simpler ways of tacking costs, e.g.:
    If there are a lot of people missing Monday morning from work because they are hungover, then don't pay them.
    If there are people falling into casualty with injuries because they were drunk then make them pay the full amount, not the health insurance.
    If drunken people are causing vandalism, make them pay for it.
    And so on.

    How does someone like this even get a Dr title


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,351 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    I'd be very, very interested in seeing the numbers behind that 3.7billion nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    i would tax spirits way more than beer/ cider as its arguably more damaging.
    also wine should be taxed more as it is much higher in alcohol content.

    Oh hang on, the excise duty on spirits is already multiples of what it is on beer.
    And wine got hit in the last budget.

    so, maybe leave it as it is so!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,782 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Interestingly we the taxpayer actually fund Alcohol Action Ireland, and thus we paid for them to come up with this set of nonsense figures.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭conorhal


    alcohol here is taxed the most in the EU , why more tax it

    Because we're never done applying the same failed solutions to the same increecing problems.


    You know what, it has become my firm belief that if the words 'tax' and 'ban' were themselves banned from every discussion about social issues at the cabinet table, we would arrive at real world concrete solutions to most of society's ills far more quickly, because the same 'ol bankrupt thinking would immediately off the table and some lateral thinking would get a break for once.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    alcohol costs the state nothing. poor education and lack of respect for it cost the state money. how about instead of taxing it more the state refuses to deal with alcohol related hospital admissions on the public's dollar? need your stomach pumped? grand, you're paying for it. got paralytic drunk and fell and broke your arm? credit card please


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,039 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    How much does Dr Bobby cost the taxpayer per year?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭niallu


    Where is your statistic that smokers cost the state money?

    Are all the health insurance premiums factored into this calculation also?

    I'm aware that that the likes of VHI (semi state body) are breaking even at best, but alot of that is down to mis-management of finances and the fact they are slow to change their ways.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    So do you believe that alcohol should be taxed more to pay for the damage it does?
    I do, I fail to see why drinking and smoking which cost more to the state in damage done than they bring in with tax should be subsidized by non drinkers/smokers.

    Do you have the data for smoking? I have read some stuff that shows, in other countries, that smoking is actually close enough to neutral to the state financially, mainly because smokers die younger/don't need as many years support from state.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    seamus wrote: »
    When an organisation called "Alcohol Action Ireland" brings out a figure of €3.7bn for "Alcohol-related harm", I'm immediately skeptical.

    Until they post a breakdown of this information, I'm going to assume that figure includes spurious calculations like the productivity lost from hangovers.

    the word "Related" is the one that should ring alarm bells alright. Any event can be related to a whole string of things. Doesn't make it a determining factor, nor even more importantly the cause for such event.

    I could have a few drinks, stumble on some steps and break my ankle. The problem is I stumbled, not the drinks.


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