Dual Sat and TV Tuners on high end TV's

SmithySeller

Hi. Has anyone any experience with the latest top end TV's, eg. Samsung F8000, F8500, Panasonic VT65 Series etc?
These Tv's come with both dual Sat and dual DTV tuners inbuilt. Im wondering has anyone experience with these from a usability perspective where they have Saorview and Freesat working, and how the EPG for both works? Things like now and next or are they 7 day epg, looks like the Panasonic may be for both but the Sammy might not. How is the recording (to external drive) and the flexibility around recording two off Sat and watching the other or vice versa or indeed trying to record three programmes, is it possible? What about Series link or similar? Unfortunately over in the UK, these things don't really come out in the reviews, because there isn't a great need for both, they'll use either freeview or freesat, however here in Ireland, this setup could be ideal. Anyone know more about them?

Gerry Wicklow

I can't speak for these models but based on the Samsung ES6300 with single terrestrial and sat tuners I found:-
To get full sat EPG (FreeSat mode) you must configure country as UK otherwise it's now and next only.
Saorview works but will be in the 800's. Easily changed to 1,2 3 or whatever.
You CANNOT mix sat and terrestrial in the same EPG or favourites list and changing between them is quite clunky. I'm told this is a FreeSat stipulation. Other may confirm or deny this.
Series link, MHEG5 text etc work fine for both. Recording is OK but you cannot add a buffer to compensate for overruns. BBC etc usually change the EPG for large changes but I have often found 1 minute missing from the start or end of programmes. You can add manual recordings but that defeats the purpose of the EPG.

marcus2000

I just got the Samsung F8000 and got a satelite and saorview aerial installed. I'm no expert and I'm really just trying to get familiar with how it works. At the moment, I get the full 7 day EPG for saorview but only now and next for the UK channels (and even at that, they seem not to refresh, until you select the channel). (After reading the above, Im wondering if I can change my country to UK to sort that!!)
Also, switching between UK and Ireland is cumbersoome, requires about 5 seconds thought and 3 menu selections!!!

Im not sure if this is universal for all tvs but i can only record the channel that im watching OR switch to/from UK to Ireland and watch satelite while recording terrestial or vice versa. This is a nuisance. It also automatically switches to the channel you have scheduled to record!! Is there series link?? I assume this will only work on the IRish channels as thats the only TV guide I can get....I'll have to try that later.

Great TV though.

Ronnie Raygun

Set up with UK as country & at least get the Freesat EPG. No way of overcoming the delay switching between satellite & terrestrial.

marcus2000

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Set up with UK as country & at least get the Freesat EPG. No way of overcoming the delay switching between satellite & terrestrial.

Any idea how to do that? I can't seem to find any setup/ country selections in the menus!!!!

Gerry Wicklow

marcus2000 wrote: »

Any idea how to do that? I can't seem to find any setup/ country selections in the menus!!!!

You will probably have to do a "factory reset" and start over to get the country choice. In FreeSat mode it only takes a few seconds to tune.
As for series linking... when setting up a recording in FreeSat mode it will tell you if the programme is part of a series and ask if you want to record all of them. Likewise if you select an SD show which is also in HD it will ask which version you want.

marcus2000

Thanks. I found Country under the Broadcast/ Tuning section. I changed satellite and terrestrial to United Kingdom. It then prompted me to re-tune the terrestrial channels, which I did. However, its still the same menu!!!

SmithySeller

Thanks folks, you might keep us updated Marcus. The TV has 4 tuners so, you should be able to at very least watch one programme on Saorview and record another, and the same with Freesat. Whether you can cross record and watch Im interested to find out (ie. watch Saorview and record Freesat). If you select Freesat instead of Free to Air on Sat side of things you should get a proper EPG. If you are saying that you cant watch and record something else on Sat, Im wondering do you have all cables connected?
On the Panasonic, I 'think' you might be able to setup a home screen, and access all Tuners from there and so shortcut to them, this is on the VT65 series, but I'm still trying to find out.
Its funny I looked at the F8000 and more so the F8500 (which Im more interested in) and the good folk in PowerCity and Expert had no idea that the TV had dual tuners for both platforms, in fact one was adamant it didn't, just one for each!

SmithySeller

marcus2000 wrote: »

Thanks. I found Country under the Broadcast/ Tuning section. I changed satellite and terrestrial to United Kingdom. It then prompted me to re-tune the terrestrial channels, which I did. However, its still the same menu!!!

For terrestrial you should be choosing Ireland, No? And so getting Saorview. For Satellite is there a freesat mode?

SmithySeller

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

No way of overcoming the delay switching between satellite & terrestrial.

Sorry Ronnie, you might just expand on this. Can you not simply access each EPG separately, albeit using a number of remote control presses etc? Or are you saying you have to navigate and essentially re-tune each as you want to watch them? ta..

The Cush

marcus2000 wrote: »

I found Country under the Broadcast/ Tuning section. I changed satellite and terrestrial to United Kingdom. It then prompted me to re-tune the terrestrial channels, which I did. However, its still the same menu!!!

What do you mean by the same menu? epg?

Can you do a full factory reset and select UK on setup?

Gerry Wicklow

On my Samsung you get four choices. The country setting is the same for all.

Aerial (meaning terrestrial)
Cable
satellite (meaning FTA)
FreeSat.

You MUST select FreeSat if you want the full 7 day EPG. The FreeSat option will automatically tune in the satellite channels in a fixed order. It may ask for a UK postcode. Use whichever you fancy for your choice of region, London, Manchester, Belfast or whatever

marcus2000

Thanks for that. I just noticed I hadn't retuned Freesat when I noticed Filmfour was missing. ( I had other UK channels )

Anyway it prompted for postcode so I used a Belfast code and what do u know, TV guide is perfect. ( and alot better than Saorview)

winston_1

SmithySeller wrote: »

Thanks folks, you might keep us updated Marcus. The TV has 4 tuners so,

Are you sure about that?

Gerry Wicklow

marcus2000 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I just noticed I hadn't retuned Freesat when I noticed Filmfour was missing. ( I had other UK channels )

Anyway it prompted for postcode so I used a Belfast code and what do u know, TV guide is perfect. ( and alot better than Saorview)

I'm open to correction on this but I thought UTV was not in available HD yet. I prefer to use Granada for HD ITV1 and of course the Beeb don't mess with the schedules as much as they do in NI.

marcus2000

The Postal code I entered didn't seem to have any obvious effect on the channels. The full list of regional variations (along with lots of duplications of each) seem to still be available. No idea which channels are in HD and which aren't. TBH, compared to my last TV, every channel is crystal clear!!!!!!

(i watched avatar last night with 3d switched on. I'm sure there was some noticeable different, but nothing worth the effort of wearing glasses!!)

Gerry Wicklow

If you are using FreeSat, the postcode determines which regions are at the prime positions. In other words BBC1, 2, ITV1, CH4 and CH5 for your region. The other SD BBC regions will still be available in the 900's.
Channel 119 will be the local HD ITV1.

Was Avatar in 3D last night on Film4? I thought the only source of 3D stuff now is on a Sky subscription channel.

finething

Could anyone post an image of the freest EPG and the SAORview EPG, can't find it on the web. So still not clear if you can record one channel and watch another, either where both are terrestrial, both satellite or one of each. And I assume you have to change menus to go between Saorview and Freesat, but can you now have 7 day EPG on both by having aerial set to Ireland and Satellite set to a UK postcode?
Sorry, its just a bit confusing. Looks like a smashing TV in the shops.

winston_1

winston_1 wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

OK no answer so I looked up the specs. Not 4 tuners but 3. Two satellite tuners and one terrestrial tuner which covers DTT, cable, and analogue.

niallabc

Hi,

I was thinking of buying a Samsung ue40f6500 tv from Europe (France,Germany, Hungary etc). Does anyone if i will have issues with the tuner receiving Saorview or Freesat. I have been told I may receive the channels but they will be all over the place in the guide. If so can the tuner be reset from Europe setting to UK settings once I get the tv.


Thanks

Niall

winston_1

Nothing is guaranteed if you buy the set in the "wrong" country. Different manufacturers, even different models can vary in this respect.

SmithySeller

winston_1 wrote: »

OK no answer so I looked up the specs. Not 4 tuners but 3. Two satellite tuners and one terrestrial tuner which covers DTT, cable, and analogue.

My understanding is that both the Panny VT series and Samsung F8000/F8500 have 4 tuners, twin Sat and twin TV, albeit, there is only one connection for the latter.

See this line here when describing the F8000;
"There are also aerial and satellite connectors for both FreeviewHD and FreesatHD, along with twin tuners for each"
From:
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-UE-F8000-40-40F8000-55F8000-55-47F8000-47-75F8000-75-Inch-3D-LED-LCD-Smart-TV-Review_563/Review.html

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/tvs/samsung-ue55f8000-review-50011654/

This also copied from another site;
Twin tuners for more choice

Using dual tuners, the 55” Samsung UE55 F8000 LED TV lets you watch either two Freeview or two Freesat Channels at the same time.

The Panny is also similar, one connection at the back, but in its specs in clearly says twin tuner for TV and SAT.
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/tvs/panasonic-tx-p55vt65-review-50011105/

PS. I'll caveat all this by saying I have read that only 1 tuner can record at any one time on the Samsung, which tbh is a bit crap!

winston_1

The Samsung website is not clear on this.

The Panasonic website is also unclear in the operating instructions. Most references to dual picture mode seem to refer to satellite. On P180 it says.

"Ensure that Dual Tuner Mode is set to On in Auto Setup to display freesat or Other Sat. / Satellite mode both in two windows.

Watching  Tuning and editing channels  Auto Setup

● Analogue channel cannot be displayed both in two windows.
● Data services are not available in the multi window mode."

The last two lines seem to indicate that there is only one terrestrial tuner.

SmithySeller

winston_1 wrote: »

The last two lines seem to indicate that there is only one terrestrial tuner.

Not so, all the Panasonic reviews indicate double twin tuners and they are correct. This is straight from a Panasonic Store employee over at AVForums;

(Yes the TV (like all Freeview PVR's) can operate with just the one aerial feed. Feed it with just an aerial feed and you can a) Watch one channel whilst recording a 2nd b) Record 2 channels at the same time (you cannot watch a 3rd live) whilst watching something from the attached HDD.

You will get the same results as above when you feed the TV with 2 sat feeds as well (without an aerial)

If you fed the TV with an aerial & 2 sat feeds - you can still only do the same as above. You can mix-and-match your recordings though, ie record 1 Freesat channel whilst watching a 2nd Freeview channel, record 1 Freesat & 1 Freeview etc. There is no option to record 2 channels whilst watching a 3rd live channel.

Basically, even though the TV has 4 Digital tuners (2 Freeview/2 Freesat) the processor can't output more than 2 live channels worth of information at a time.

There is no series link option on either the Freeview or Freesat tuners unfortunately (I wish they did))

I have also read on a few forums now about the Samsung F8xxx series, but to summarise, afaik it cannot record more than one feed at any time, please see the following from AVForums;

Q: Can you record two programmes at once? Does it do Series Link etc?
A: Can't record two at once, only watch one/record one.

But it seems that in freesat mode for the Sat twin tuner you can do something similar to Series link, not sure about Freeview/Saorview.

Hope that clears it up

SmithySeller

Comes with no guarantee

Panasonic VT65 Series Plasma and possibly WT65 & DT65 Series LED

• It has two twin tuners for both, one twin tuner for Freeview/Saorview and one twin tuner for Satellite.
• On Freeview you can watch one channel whilst recording a 2nd
• On Freeview you can record 2 channels at the same time (you cannot watch a 3rd live)
• On Satellite you can watch one channel whilst recording a 2nd
• On Satellite you can record 2 channels at the same time (you cannot watch a 3rd live)
• If all tuners are cabled up, you can still only watch or record two feeds, but you can watch Freeview and record Satellite and vice versa, but not watch a 3rd.
• The Panasonic has no equivalent of 'Series Link' on either EPG for Sat or TV
• Live pause is possible when another recording is in place

Samsung F8xxx Series, LED or Plasma

• It has two twin tuners for both, one twin tuner for Freeview/Saorview and one twin tuner for Satellite.
• On Freeview you can watch one channel whilst recording a 2nd
• On Freeview you cannot record 2 channels at the same time (you cannot watch a 3rd live)
• On Satellite you can watch one channel whilst recording a 2nd
• On Satellite you cannot record 2 channels at the same time (you cannot watch a 3rd live)
• If all tuners are cabled up, you can still only watch one and record one whilst watching either TV or Sat, you cannot record Sat and watch TV (according to Users on AVForums)
• The Samsung does have an equivalent of 'Series Link' on the EPG for Sat or TV, according to an earlier poster, Gerry Wicklow (thanks for that)
• Live pause is NOT possible when another recording is in place

winston_1

Thanks, I'm pleasantly surprised.

jp 1000

hi i just setup an lg 42la660v for a woman today lovely looking tv and the picture is great it also has a dual tuner, just one problem with it is with swapping between the two tuners you seem to have go to the settings menu and then select either the sat or the aerial input. what a pain in the arse i contacted lg today and said that was just the way it is. how come no tv seems to have sat and aerial tv channels on one list??? lg said they would forward this concern to their design team. when i asked them would there ever be an update to fix the channel list they said probably not. i just cant understand how triax can do it in a small simple box but it cant be done in a tv????

Kristopherus

jp 1000 wrote: »

hi i just setup an lg 42la660v for a woman today lovely looking tv and the picture is great it also has a dual tuner, just one problem with it is with swapping between the two tuners you seem to have go to the settings menu and then select either the sat or the aerial input. what a pain in the arse i contacted lg today and said that was just the way it is. how come no tv seems to have sat and aerial tv channels on one list??? lg said they would forward this concern to their design team. when i asked them would there ever be an update to fix the channel list they said probably not. i just cant understand how triax can do it in a small simple box but it cant be done in a tv????

Have to agree with you. Most, if not all the Saorview/FTA Sat combi units can do it:(.

JDxtra

Because only people in Ireland would want to do that. And our market is so small compared to the UK, that type of simplicity in switching feeds to accommodate us is just not on the radar.

Sam Russell

Also Freesat have a say in this.

Peter Rhea

JDxtra wrote: »

Because only people in Ireland would want to do that. And our market is so small compared to the UK, that type of simplicity in switching feeds to accommodate us is just not on the radar.

Accomodate us? As opposed to the UK? Those LG tvs are Europe-wide models: they only ever made 1 Freesat model I'm aware of & that's a few years back now.

Also, you don't think the likes of the Ferguson Arivas have a single list of terrestrial & satellite channels just to keep us happy?

JDxtra

Reality is, vast majority of the end users across Europe of TVs from the major manufacturers will not be using sat and terrestrial simultaneously like what appeals to us.

I have had both a Samsung and an LG with embedded sat receivers for a number of years. Yes, you have to press a few buttons to flick between the tuners, but it's manageable.

Peter Rhea

JDxtra wrote: »

Fact is, vast majority of their end users across Europe will not be using sat and terrestrial simultaneously like we do.

How do you know that? Why wouldn't they, & for the same reason we do i.e. common language across different countries?

They hardly all buy them to have every option on board 'just in case' their current choice (cable, satellite or terrestrial broadcast) isn't available should they happen to move home.

Or maybe it's the norm on the continent to have terr./sat./cable tuners in any decent spec. tv?

donegal.

niallabc wrote: »

Hi,

I was thinking of buying a Samsung ue40f6500 tv from Europe (France,Germany, Hungary etc). Does anyone if i will have issues with the tuner receiving Saorview or Freesat. I have been told I may receive the channels but they will be all over the place in the guide. If so can the tuner be reset from Europe setting to UK settings once I get the tv.


Thanks

Niall

should be no problem except for freesat epg, its only now and next.
you could take a look at the discussion in this link, its in the uk but all the info will be the same for you.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/lg-47lm649s-47-3d-led-plus-wifi-satellite-receiver-freeview-widi-wifi-direct-400hz-1585764#comments

EDIT: does that tv have freesat ?

Ronnie Raygun

Peter Rhea wrote: »

... Or maybe it's the norm on the continent to have terr./sat./cable tuners in any decent spec. tv?

Probably is, & should be here too. It's only the Brits that seem to be so spoiled for choice with the amount of duplication (services & coverage) on satellite & terrestrial, not to mention all their "connected" stuff.

Ronnie Raygun

donegal. wrote: »

... does that tv have freesat ?

A UK version ("k" suffix) would. Maybe any do if country is set to UK.

donegal.

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

A UK version ("k" suffix) would. Maybe any do if country is set to UK.

you're right , it does.
UE40F6500AKXXU


http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/samsung/ue40f6500/sams-ue40f6500

Peter Rhea

I thought it was the XXU part signified a UK model?

The Cush

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I thought it was the XXU part signified a UK model?

I remember at one point the Samsung UXXU models were the ones with an on boards satellite tuner.

marcus2000

SmithySeller wrote: »

Samsung F8xxx Series, LED or Plasma

• It has two twin tuners for both, one twin tuner for Freeview/Saorview and one twin tuner for Satellite.
• On Freeview you can watch one channel whilst recording a 2nd
  
• On Satellite you can watch one channel whilst recording a 2nd
  
• If all tuners are cabled up, you can still only watch one and record one whilst watching either TV or Sat, you cannot record Sat and watch TV (according to Users on AVForums)
• The Samsung does have an equivalent of 'Series Link' on the EPG for Sat or TV, according to an earlier poster, Gerry Wicklow (thanks for that)
• Live pause is NOT possible when another recording is in place

Thanks for that. I recently bought a samsung 8series and got a Saorview Ariel and Freeview Satellite. Primarily thanks to Boards, I have managed to get the Channels and TV guide sorted...but Im still having problems with recording. I had a daily soap on series link. It records it some days. No idea why it doesnt record every day. When I view my settings, it says something like Weak or no signal.

i also cant change channels when recording. If im on a different channel when a scheduled recording is due to start, i get prompted to switch to the channel im recording or cancel the recording? i also get prompted of a weak or no signal if i try to record and change channel (despite the channels obviously working fine)

my usb memory box recorded seems to be fine. its a 1tb and sure generally records. I can pause live tv, but can only rewind it If i have paused it at some point.

my main concern is how to watch one channel and record another. (I rang freesat who installed it and they dont seem to know too much about the samsung. They suggested that i cant watch one and record another, unless its transmitting on the same frequency. Not sure what that means. They said I can switch to saorview when recording freeview, but actually the Samsung disables that option when recording).

Apologies if some of this doesnt make any sense. I really havent a clue about how these Satellites are meant to work!!!!!!

Peter Rhea

marcus2000 wrote: »

I recently bought a samsung 8series and got a Saorview Ariel and Freeview Satellite. Primarily thanks to Boards, I have managed to get the Channels and TV guide sorted...but Im still having problems with recording. I had a daily soap on series link. It records it some days. No idea why it doesnt record every day. When I view my settings, it says something like Weak or no signal.

i also cant change channels when recording. If im on a different channel when a scheduled recording is due to start, i get prompted to switch to the channel im recording or cancel the recording?

First question to ask is if both satellite tuners are connected to the lnb at the dish. There should be 3 'aerial' cables connected to this tv: 2 from the satellite dish & 1 from the terrestrial aerial.

marcus2000

Peter Rhea wrote: »

First question to ask is if both satellite tuners are connected to the lnb at the dish. There should be 3 'aerial' cables connected to this tv: 2 from the satellite dish & 1 from the terrestrial aerial.

I have attached a photo of the back. I assume this means the third cable is missing??

winston_1

marcus2000 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I recently bought a samsung 8series and got a Saorview Ariel and Freeview Satellite.

Apologies if some of this doesnt make any sense. I really havent a clue about how these Satellites are meant to work!!!!!!

It certainly doesn't. Ariel is washing powder, the upper case letter gives it away! Freeview does not come from a satellite.

You mean you got an aerial for Saorview and a dish for free to air satellite channels.

SmithySeller

marcus2000 wrote: »

I have attached a photo of the back. I assume this means the third cable is missing??

Correct mate, you need two cables coming from your dish.

donegal.

marcus2000 wrote: »

I have attached a photo of the back. I assume this means the third cable is missing??

the installer has not connected it up properly.
The saorview connection to the aerial if fine.
The main Sat connection for watching freesat is fine.
But there should be a 3rd cable connected to the tv for recording/pausing freesat. You need a cable going from SATsub to the lmb on your dish.

simply put - you have to have 2 cables from the dish to the tv.
also there are no installers anywhere that wouldn't know this, it would be very basic for them.

SmithySeller

Donegal is spot on. And so you know, on the Samsung, even this flagship in question, you cannot record Sat and then watch Saorview at the same time. You can record Sat and watch another Sat. You can on some Panasonics but not this TV Im afraid.

marcus2000

That's grand. Given that it requires a few button presses to switch to Soarview from the Uk channels, I actually have almost abandoned RTE!! it would be just useful to actually record a show that I dont have to watch!!!! (My partner has series linked Hollyoaks and I tend to be just sitting down to watch tv when I get prompted daily to switch to it, so you can tell how urgent my issue is!!)

I'd have thought the installer was very reputable. They seem to be one of the main 'retailers' and they actually spent a good 5 hours at my house installing the dish/aerial. The installer wasn't overly familiar with connecting to the Samsung though!! Perhaps it was an oversight. I'll give them a call. thanks for your help on this.

marcus2000

Just to follow up. I contacted the installer and at first he dismissed 'forum users' ..... :-o ....apparently you read nonsense on these sites......anyway, i mailed him the photo of my two cables and he called back and agreed there should be a third cable (although its not included in my original price?) ..anyway, its being installed at the weekend, so hopefully will sort my recording issues out.

many thanks!!

Peter Rhea

marcus2000 wrote: »

. . . i can only record the channel that im watching OR switch to/from UK to Ireland and watch satelite while recording terrestial or vice versa.

SmithySeller wrote: »

. . . And so you know, on the Samsung, even this flagship in question, you cannot record Sat and then watch Saorview at the same time. You can record Sat and watch another Sat. You can on some Panasonics but not this TV Im afraid.

Contradictory statements: who has it right?

Gerry Wicklow

On my Samsung you can only watch the service you are recording, either terrestrial or Satellite. However you can watch another channel if it is on the same transponder.

marcus2000

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Contradictory statements: who has it right?

I am merely here to ask questions / looking for help familiarising myself with my TV and Dish. As I posted earlier, the option to switch to aerial from satellite is disabled on my Samsung when I am recording. It was the installation engineer who suggested it was all I can do when I rang with issues relating to recording!! Personally, I have no absolutely no idea how it works/or should work!