diesel cars

john1963

I only do 5k a year but am tall and I need a big car. Its almost impossible to get a petrol from 2010 on. Am I mad to buy a diesel.

colm_mcm

Yes.

Also reevaluate if you need such a new car for so little use. An older exec car would surely make sense.

Don't be blinded by tax. Finance at €400 or so a month is equally painful.

Rossin

Whats wrong with getting a diesel car?

colm_mcm

They're not very well suited to short trips, they have particle filters which are regerated on longer journies. They're megabucks to replace.
You can of course deliberately do a long journey every so often to induce a regeneration, but for someone that never really drives its a bit of a pain.

mathepac

Annual mileage too low for modern cars with DPFs etc

colm_mcm

What's your budget OP and how tall are you?

Anan1

mathepac wrote: »

Annual mileage too low for modern cars with DPFs etc

Low annual mileage doesn't necessarily equate to short trips. What kind of use will the car get?

dgt

Being 6ft 2 and being able to fit into a Seicento comfortably, anything bigger than that should fit the bill

CiniO

john1963 wrote: »

I only do 5k a year but am tall and I need a big car. Its almost impossible to get a petrol from 2010 on. Am I mad to buy a diesel.

Why don't you import a petrol car from abroad - f.e. UK.

It's only Ireland where bigger petrol cars post 2008 are virtually unavailable.

Bigcheeze

dgt wrote: »

Being 6ft 2 and being able to fit into a Seicento comfortably, anything bigger than that should fit the bill

biko

Diesel doesn't necessarily mean big car. There's plenty of petrol cars for tall people.
Volvos, Passats, even Hondas.

JohnBoy26

john1963 wrote: »

I only do 5k a year but am tall and I need a big car. Its almost impossible to get a petrol from 2010 on. Am I mad to buy a diesel.

What's your budget and will that 5k be mostly motorway or will it involve a lot of town/city driving?

HJL

Another option would be something small-ish, but with a high roof. Something like a Fiat Panda, should be plenty of such cars in petrol. I have never been in a Fiat Panda however when ever I see on I always imagine a top hat could be worn whilst driving.

I was also in a Yaris a few times and very suprised by how much head room there was.

Do you have a car currently OP, what are you driving and do you find it cramped or too small? Give us something to work from and suggestions can be based on that.

dgt

HJL wrote: »

Another option would be something small-ish, but with a high roof. Something like a Fiat Panda, should be plenty of such cars in petrol. I have never been in a Fiat Panda however when ever I see on I always imagine a top hat could be worn whilst driving.

I was also in a Yaris a few times and very suprised by how much head room there was.

Do you have a car currently OP, what are you driving and do you find it cramped or too small? Give us something to work from and suggestions can be based on that.

Panda is very roomy alright, I found it a nice place to be in

HJL

dgt wrote: »

Panda is very roomy alright, I found it a nice place to be in

I always liked the look of them, they seem to have a sense of character which not many cars now have. Also the 4x4 version was on 5th Gear years ago and it was against a Range Rover and it held its own very well.

Prof. Armitage Shanks

john1963 wrote: »

I only do 5k a year but am tall and I need a big car. Its almost impossible to get a petrol from 2010 on. Am I mad to buy a diesel.

There's a lot of petrol purists on here who like to pull random mileage figures from their arse whenever this question arises. Calculate the cost benefit for the type of driving you do before making your decision.

You may want to also consider the following.

A lot of cars only available in diesel models (e.g passats mondeos from about 2011 on)

Diesels are not always more expensive than the equivalent petrol

Diesel is cheaper than petrol and Co2 based tax generally low.

In todays market buying a newish petrol car will often mean big depreciation, rightly or wrongly everyone wants diesels at the moment.

Yes the DPF might clog up but it doesn't always need replacing, a good garage will often attempt a regeneration.

colm_mcm

Just on the passat thing, there are plenty 1.4 TSIs out there, including post 2011.
For someone who does 8 miles a day on average, a diesel is mental.

Jesus.

I have to agree with Armitage on this one. I honestly don't believe it matters that much what kind of driving you're doing. The diesel will always be more economical.

Even a bloke driving in a City is going to get out onto national roads regularly and motorways fairly frequently (it is a small island after all) and will blow any carbon build up out its arse. Vans are practically 100% diesel and they do the hardest driving around. Taxi men have all gone diesel where they can too and they're almost always confined to towns and City's.

Having said all that, I've never actually owned a diesel myself.

166man

Prof. Armitage Shanks wrote: »

There's a lot of petrol purists on here who like to pull random mileage figures from their arse whenever this question arises. Calculate the cost benefit for the type of driving you do before making your decision.

You may want to also consider the following.

A lot of cars only available in diesel models (e.g passats mondeos from about 2011 on)

Diesels are not always more expensive than the equivalent petrol

Diesel is cheaper than petrol and Co2 based tax generally low.

In todays market buying a newish petrol car will often mean big depreciation, rightly or wrongly everyone wants diesels at the moment.

Yes the DPF might clog up but it doesn't always need replacing, a good garage will often attempt a regeneration.

You'll find plenty of petrol Passats and Golfs these days.

If everyone want's a diesel then usually there will be a price premium for them

Cheaper than petrol at the moment, most newer petrol cars also have the low road tax so that argument is bull, Golf TSi Vs Golf TDi for example.

Depreciation offset by lower cost to buy up front

DPF isn't the main issue IMO, it's the DMF that most diesels have, go about 100k km which ain't much and if diesels are driven then this could be an issue. Big bucks to replace.

You also need to look at the diesel fuel as well, all these uber refined engines and their respective injectors need good quality diesel, in a petrol it's much of a muchness.

visual

There is lots of places ofering to remove DPF for a couple of hundred euro or so.

DMF are being fitted to petrols too and as time goes on the cost is falling. In parts what is the exrea cost over a clutch replacement. Two or three hundred extra every 100k at worse.

There is an obsession with dirty diesel that im sure is exploited by garages to justify charging more. A good fuel filter should separate out Water and dirt.

Ive been driving diesels years and find they are much more practical in city town or rural driving.

For lots of city driving automatic matched to diesel engine is very hard to beat.

miller50841

Ford Mondeo has the best leg room but even a 1.4 Skoda Octavia would suit

colm_mcm

@visual, bmw have fitted dmf's to petrols for a good while, the likes of the e39 520i 2.0 from 15 years ago, and they don't give trouble,
I think its a diesel thing, they are soaking up a lot more rattles.

I do realise that at 5k a year, it'd take a fair while for the OP to go through one, no matter what the driving style,

Max Power1

5k a year?

Save yourself the finance cost and buy a 90s jag, BMW 7 series or merc S class. Fun, petrol, and no DMF/DPF.

Elessar

Max Power1 wrote: »

5k a year?

Save yourself the finance cost and buy a 90s jag, BMW 7 series or merc S class. Fun, petrol, and no DMF/DPF.

The man wants a 10 reg or newer car not a 90s jag!

OP I do the same amount of mileage as you roughly (say 7-8k km per year) all urban town driving and I recently bought a 2009 BMW 318D Msport. I purposefully take it for a 30 min spin up the motorway every 2nd or 3rd weekend (15 mins up and back) staying in 4th gear and in 3 months I haven't had any issues with the DPF. No lights, nothing. It's such a nice car to drive I really don't mind. It's a small sacrifice but I consider it good maintenance.

Ideally I would have liked a petrol but 2008+ petrols hardly exist at all and those that do are far too underpowered. I love the torque of the diesel and I don't regret my purchase at all. If you are willing to give it a good spin every few weeks you will be fine.

Marcusm

Being tall doesn't necessitate a large car but rather one with a decent driving position for a tall driver. I'm 6'5" so on the tall side. I drive a Mini and a Range Rover. Some may find it surprising but the Mini affords a much more comfortable driving position than much larger cars - certainly better than a 3 series, Insignia, Golf. The solution is to go and physically try out the cars for space before even thinking about test driving them. External size is no determinant of internal comfort.

Max Power1

Elessar wrote: »

The man wants a 10 reg or newer car not a 90s jag!

.

Yes but he will be financing depreciation and not using the vehicle.

You would be utterly insane to buy a modern diesel for 5k a year.

Prof. Armitage Shanks

colm_mcm wrote: »

For someone who does 8 miles a day on average, a diesel is mental.

From a mechanical perspective I would agree with you, however these days car ownership involves much more.

My point is that when choosing a diesel or petrol car nowadays, there are many factors to be considered other than mileage. Most people will also consider depreciation, tax, fuel costs etc. Supply and demand as regards re-sale value must also be considered, cars afterall are a commodity. At the moment demand for petrol engined cars is on the floor. Each buyer should weigh up all the options, decide what's most important to them and then make the decision.

Max Power1

Prof. Armitage Shanks wrote: »

From a mechanical perspective I would agree with you, however these days car ownership involves much more.

My point is that when choosing a diesel or petrol car nowadays, there are many factors to be considered other than mileage. Most people will also consider depreciation, tax, fuel costs etc. Supply and demand as regards re-sale value must also be considered, cars afterall are a commodity. At the moment demand for petrol engined cars is on the floor. Each buyer should weigh up all the options, decide what's most important to them and then make the decision.

So is the demand for diesel cars with a fuckered DPF

Renegade Mechanic

dgt wrote: »

Being 6ft 2 and being able to fit into a Seicento comfortably, anything bigger than that should fit the bill

You must look like a bear in a phone box! :eek:
Mind you Im a bit of a high tower too, and found the punto to be very surprisingly accommodating!

Edit: just did some maths, 5k a year is 13k a day, 6.5k trips x2! Get a bicycle, OP youll be rolling in the cash!:D

Elessar

Max Power1 wrote: »

Yes but he will be financing depreciation and not using the vehicle.

You would be utterly insane to buy a modern diesel for 5k a year.

Everyone who buys a car suffers depreciation. And if noone bought new or nearly new you'd have very little of those 90s jags to choose from. If you are so worried about depreciation put your money in the bank and walk. If the man wants a newer car he wants a newer car.

I bought a modern diesel for similar mileage and I'm not insane. In fact it's going quite well.

Prof. Armitage Shanks

Max Power1 wrote: »

So is the demand for diesel cars with a fuckered DPF

Yes because that happens to all diesel cars and is irreparable. A worthy contribution, well done.

Andrew_Doran

HJL wrote: »

Another option would be something small-ish, but with a high roof. Something like a Fiat Panda, should be plenty of such cars in petrol. I have never been in a Fiat Panda however when ever I see on I always imagine a top hat could be worn whilst driving.

I'm 6'3", drive a Panda and there's plenty of room all right, although mine does have seat height adjustment (many don't). Being tall a lot of car seats don't fit well, and give me back pain after a while but I find the Panda's upright driving position is very comfortable.

ba_barabus

Prof. Armitage Shanks wrote: »

Yes because that happens to all diesel cars and is irreparable. A worthy contribution, well done.

Eerrrrrrrrrr.

FWIW I think advising people to pay a premium to buy a product in which they won't ever see a return on their investment all because everybody else is doing in ludicrous.

Why on earth would you pay a premium for a diesel when you are doing low mileage? Never mind the pitfalls of paying extra for the car but think of the long term maintenance issues and the cost of these. Surely if you are only covering 5k miles a year and want something fuel efficient a Prius would be a far better car, or any hybrid come to think of it.

As for people saying they drive a diesel and it's gone a whole 3 months without issue that's pretty worthless feedback. If I paid for a new car and it gave any mechanical issue within 3 months I'd be fcuking fuming. A neighbour of mine however has had her Focus back to the dealer numerous times due to blocked DPF. She covers about 7k kilometers a year and it first went back within 3 weeks of purchase.

Add to that people who have been using them for short spins for years can I ask if you drive a previous generation diesel that isn't common rail or have a dpf? I'm thinking about drivers of the old 1.9TDI VAG engine. These aren't as effected by short journeys as newer diesels so again the comparison falls down. They also give shytty mpgs on short trips too. A petrol can often give a better return. I'm not going to mention DMF's as they are fitted to petrol cars too.

Personally I'd be putting myself in a hybrid of some description for that mileage.

Max Power1

Prof. Armitage Shanks wrote: »

Yes because that happens to all diesel cars and is irreparable. A worthy contribution, well done.

I'll bite

There is a premium to purchase a diesel car over a petrol version of the same car

DPF failures will, more than likely, occur if the car is being driven only 5k per year. Why spend thousands more to save a cent or three at the pumps and then be faced with the DPF replacement bill?

serious3

i'm loving the fact that people keep buying diesels, it means sensible people like me can buy a 2003 2.5l petrol jag for peanuts! and waft around in near silence and no vibration! over 3 years even with 1k a year tax and 30mpg average it still works out cheaper than the equivalent diesel model. no dpf to worry about, no wondering if you have washed diesel eating your pump, no timing belt worries..... oh and did i mention the near silence when driving?:D

OP do the math on a slightly older petrol car versus a newer diesel, take in account servicing, fuel bills, depreciation, re-sale value, tax differences and see what comes out on top.

ba_barabus

serious3 wrote: »

no timing belt worries.....

Hows that then?

Other than you have a timing chain which can still go bang.

Valetta

Why do these discussions / arguments always come down to money and costs?

Neither were mentioned in the OP.

ba_barabus

Valetta wrote: »

Why do these discussions / arguments always come down to money and costs?

You're right you know.

OP, get a new diesel Maserati Quattroporte

serious3

because its a timing chain......:P my mate who drives a 6spd saab diesel, which he reckons is "quick" took the jag out and came back and said "i forgot how civilised petrols are, no vibes at all and seamless power whatever gear its in....might have to re-think the next car!"

serious3

because a new DPF/DMF costs big bucks that's why cost came into it, don't forget the horrific turbo lag these modern diesels have as well. i think the DMF's suffer more on diesels because all the power arrives in one big lump rather than across the revs like a petrol, this along with the vibes

Valetta

serious3 wrote: »

because a new DPF/DMF costs big bucks that's why cost came into it, don't forget the horrific turbo lag these modern diesels have as well.

ba_barabus wrote: »

You're right you know.

OP, get a new diesel Maserati Quattroporte

Both conveniently ignoring the second part of my post.

justsomebloke

what about a prius

Prof. Armitage Shanks

Max Power1 wrote: »

I'll bite

There is a premium to purchase a diesel car over a petrol version of the same car

DPF failures will, more than likely, occur if the car is being driven only 5k per year. Why spend thousands more to save a cent or three at the pumps and then be faced with the DPF replacement bill?

You appear to have missed the point I was making in earlier posts.

I'm not sure where you buy your fuel but where I get mine diesel is on average 8 or 9c cheaper a litre not 1 to 3 cent.

kirving

Valetta wrote: »

Why do these discussions / arguments always come down to money and costs?

Neither were mentioned in the OP.

Exactly. Newer cars are safer, and you can't put a price on safety. :-)

ThisRegard

Max Power1 wrote: »

DPF failures will, more than likely, occur if the car is being driven only 5k per year. Why spend thousands more to save a cent or three at the pumps and then be faced with the DPF replacement bill?

How modern is a modern diesel ? Mine is 3 years old and doesn't have a DPF.

Max Power1

serious3 wrote: »

because a new DPF/DMF costs big bucks that's why cost came into it, don't forget the horrific turbo lag these modern diesels have as well. i think the DMF's suffer more on diesels because all the power arrives in one big lump rather than across the revs like a petrol, this along with the vibes

My 2006 e60 diesel has a perfectly linear power delivery, and minimal lag

Prof. Armitage Shanks wrote: »

You appear to have missed the point I was making in earlier posts.

I'm not sure where you buy your fuel but where I get mine diesel is on average 8 or 9c cheaper a litre not 1 to 3 cent.

Ok, so 8-9 cent per liter. A saving of a couple of euro per tank (about €4 on a 50l fill). How many savings of €4 does it take to make up the cost of depreciation, higher initial outlay, and the cost of replacing a DPF and/or turbo etc??

I missed no point you were making, contrarily I see that you seem to have missed the whole discussion if you are advocating a modern diesel for low mileage and short trips.

Max Power1

ThisRegard wrote: »

How modern is a modern diesel ? Mine is 3 years old and doesn't have a DPF.

What car is that then? I was under the impression that since Euro IV all diesels needed a DPF to get under the emissions limit

serious3

Valetta wrote: »

Both conveniently ignoring the second part of my post.

why does it always become about cost? because we are all skint paupers on here and think that everyone else is!!:D

serious3

Max Power1 wrote: »

My 2006 e60 diesel has a perfectly linear power delivery, and minimal lag.

by modern i mean these 1.5 and 1.6 diesels, the renault 1.5dci is downright dangerous when you drop out of the turbo!

Sobanek

Max Power1 wrote: »

What car is that then? I was under the impression that since Euro IV all diesels needed a DPF to get under the emissions limit

PSA Peugeot Citroën was the first company to make them standard fit on passenger cars in 2000, in anticipation of the future Euro V regulations.

dgt

Sobanek wrote: »

PSA Peugeot Citroën was the first company to make them standard fit on passenger cars in 2000, in anticipation of the future Euro V regulations.

FAP