3 year old dead in 'Merica after shooting himself with pistol

Drakares

Source

A 3-year-old boy in a small Michigan town was killed over the weekend when he accidentally shot himself in the head with a gun he found on the closet floor of his home.
The shooting death will undoubtedly renew the debate about gun safety, particularly after the boy's father took to Facebook calling for it.
The incident took place Sunday at a home in Dundee, near the Ohio border.
Police said Damon Holbrook discovered the gun, which belonged to a family friend who was living in the house.
Authorities told CNN affiliate WXYZ that the family friend, Joshua Greenhill, had a concealed pistol license and he put the .40 caliber handgun in the closet. It was loaded, with a bullet in the chamber -- but was not locked.
Bloomberg launches ad blitz on guns Emotional gov. rejects guns in schools
Three other children were in the house at the time.
Kids and guns: Not isolated tragedies
Greenhill, was charged with careless discharge of a firearm -- a misdemeanor which carries a sentence of up to 2 years in prison or a fine of $2,000. He didn't speak to reporters after his court appearance Monday.
"We are working on a more serious charge at this time. We have not completed our investigation," Dundee police Chief David Uhl told reporters. "You have got to get more diligent with the guns. Be a lot safer with them."
New law allows schools to teach gun safety to first-graders

Groundhogs day? Another senseless death, but will probably make little difference in restricting guns there.

Last sentence epitomizes how out of the question these people are to changing what is just beyond an idiotic, moronic part of their constitution.

endacl

Drakares wrote: »

Last sentence epitomizes how out of the question these people are to changing what is just beyond an idiotic, moronic part of their constitution.

There's nothing wrong with their constitution. In fact, for its time its a remarkably progressive document.

The issue is one of interpretation.

Egan2012

That is just absoulutly crazy. The gun must have been just left thrown around the place.

bumper234

Sky news were reporting shots fired in/near an elementary school earlier as well.

Hulk Hands

Why not just America? I don't see what's outwardly redneck about this

ColeTrain

Leaving a pistol on the ground? the poor child never stood a chance with parenting like that.

OU812

^ This. For the time it was written it was probably one of the most forward thinking of the time.

Unfortunately, interpretation over time & advancements in munitions have meant that it is now a dangerous phrase.

None of these militia ever quote the full section:

"A well regulated militia being nessesary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." - Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The founders of the country believed that the people should possess the arms so they could defend their liberty from oppressive government. They were brilliant - they knew that government cannot be trusted.

If only the government had weapons then they could push the citizens around and there wouldn't be anything they could do about it. With arms they are citizens, without them they are subjects.

It was foremost a reaction to coming from under English rule, being able to defend themselves. And also having the option to overthrow an oppressive government.

Also when it was written, muskets were the order of the day.

Nodin

Drakares wrote: »

Source



Groundhogs day? Another senseless death, but will probably make little difference in restricting guns there.

Last sentence epitomizes how out of the question these people are to changing what is just beyond an idiotic, moronic part of their constitution.

....I think the only idiotic thing was leaving a gun near a 3 year old.

MadsL

Adrianna was one of more than 1,200 children under 15 who were killed since 2000 in nontraffic motor vehicle accidents in the United States. Half of those fatalities were in backovers, almost all of them involving children under 5, according to Kids and Cars, a child safety advocacy group in Leawood, Kan.

Each week, at least two children are killed and another 50 are hurt in backover accidents. Over three days in April, six children were killed; by the end of the month, 11 more died, the group said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19353735/ns/health-childrens_health/t/lives-shattered-driveway-backover-accidents/#.UhPVN5Lmhsk


600 parents/relatives reversed over their kids in 7 years. (2007 statistics)

Just for perspective and all.

pablomakaveli

As long as they're happy to keep they're relationship with guns as it is stuff like this will continue to happen. Deaths like this is the price they'll keep paying until they tighten up their firearm laws.

Gummy Panda

Can we stop doing the whole 'merika thing?

xzanti

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Can we stop doing the whole 'merika thing?

Yeah, I don't really see room for humour on a thread like this tbh, but that's just me.

RIP.. poor baby.

clairefontaine

ColeTrain wrote: »

Leaving a pistol on the ground? the poor child never stood a chance with parenting like that.

It belonged to a guest that was staying with them.

Maybe the parents should have trained their 3 year old better to treat every gun as loaded. Like they train them to stay away fromnthenoven.

I agree sloppy to leave it loaded and on the floor like that. He should get a conviction for that sloppiness.

MadsL

The shooting death will undoubtedly renew the debate about gun safety

Errm. It shouldn't.

The rules of gun safety are very clear at this stage, and you can expect nothing good to come from leaving a gun around the place loaded and unlocked.

A three year should also have had it drilled into him if it was known that guns were in the house; don't touch, go and tell an adult.

That said I am very surprised that a 3 year old had the strength to pull a 6-9lb trigger pull, and that a round was chambered and the safety was off.

Manslaughter for the family friend I'm guessing. Or negligent homicide. Certainly more than negligent discharge.

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

Errm. It shouldn't.

The rules of gun safety are very clear at this stage, and you can expect nothing good to come from leaving a gun around the place loaded and unlocked.

A three year should also have had it driled into him if it was known that guns were in the house; don't touch, go and tell an adult.

That said I am very surprised that a 3 year old had the strength to pull a 6-9lb trigger pull, and that a round was chambered and the safety was off.

Manslaughter for the family friend I'm guessing. Or negligent homicide. Certainly more than negligent discharge.

I have my suspicions about this too. How did a three year old do this?

I have a young child and my brother drills into him all the time to treat guns like they are loaded. Don't touch and tell a grown up. He's older than 3 and he could barely lift a rifle.

This story stinks of something very off.

Egan2012

clairefontaine wrote: »

It belonged to a guest that was staying with them.

Maybe the parents should have trained their 3 year old better to treat every gun as loaded. Like they train them to stay away fromnthenoven.

I agree sloppy to leave it loaded and on the floor like that. He should get a conviction for that sloppiness.

You shouldn't have to train a child about a gun at 3 years of age you should be training them to go to the toilet. The fact of the matter is there shouldn't be a gun in the house regardless of it been legal or not. Not if there is kids in the house.

yoyo

clairefontaine wrote: »

Maybe the parents should have trained their 3 year old better to treat every gun as loaded. Like they train them to stay away fromnthenoven.

I wouldn't trust a 3 year old with a scissors never mind a bloody firearm :eek::eek::mad: . What gobsh!te doesn't unload their "personal protection" firearm or at least lock it up when their finished with it for the day.
Totally preventable incident like most of these mass shootings, child deaths due to firearms that occur over there. But sure the guns arn't the problem of course... And this news about shots fired at an elementary school in Atlanta also today? Just thankfully it wasn't another mass shooting..

Nick

Nodin

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19353735/ns/health-childrens_health/t/lives-shattered-driveway-backover-accidents/#.UhPVN5Lmhsk


600 parents/relatives reversed over their kids in 7 years. (2007 statistics)

Just for perspective and all.

But cars aren't the embodiment of All That Is Evil, and guns are.

clairefontaine

Egan2012 wrote: »

You shouldn't have to train a child about a gun at 3 years of age you should be training them to go to the toilet. The fact of the matter is there shouldn't be a gun in the house regardless of it been legal or not. Not if there is kids in the house.

Look. America has bears, cougars, mountain lions, coyotes etc. Guns are a part of life, kids therefore should be trained to stay away from one and to tell a grown up.

I do think parents should have to take gun safety course if they have a gun.

clairefontaine

yoyo wrote: »

I wouldn't trust a 3 year old with a scissors never mind a bloody firearm :eek::eek::mad: . What gobsh!te doesn't unload their "personal protection" firearm or at least lock it up when their finished with it for the day.
Totally preventable incident like most of these mass shootings, child deaths due to firearms that occur over there. But sure the guns arn't the problem of course... And this news about shots fired at an elementary school in Atlanta also today? Just thankfully it wasn't another mass shooting..

Nick

I agree with you. Just as I wouldn't trust one with the stove. Trained to keep away and tell a grown up.

They exist, they are in homes, in the boots of cars, sometimes open carry. They are a part of life. No point pretending they aren't.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

MadsL wrote: »

Errm. It shouldn't.

The rules of gun safety are very clear at this stage, and you can expect nothing good to come from leaving a gun around the place loaded and unlocked.

A three year should also have had it drilled into him if it was known that guns were in the house; don't touch, go and tell an adult.

That said I am very surprised that a 3 year old had the strength to pull a 6-9lb trigger pull, and that a round was chambered and the safety was off.

Manslaughter for the family friend I'm guessing. Or negligent homicide. Certainly more than negligent discharge.

I'm a bad auld fecker for that...

ba dum tish...



I'm sorry, this is just a depressing thread and no good will come from discussing this here so I'm just trying to make a joke.

MadsL

Egan2012 wrote: »

You shouldn't have to train a child about a gun at 3 years of age you should be training them to go to the toilet. The fact of the matter is there shouldn't be a gun in the house regardless of it been legal or not. Not if there is kids in the house.

Where should off duty cops and security guards keep them?

Personally I would be a fan of a gun safe.

clairefontaine wrote: »

Look. America has bears, cougars, mountain lions, coyotes etc. Guns are a part of life, kids therefore should be trained to stay away from one and to tell a grown up.

I do think parents should have to take gun safety course if they have a gun.

This was a CCW. So the friend would have done the course. He's an idiot.

1st grade gun safety would be helpful in schools.
Stop, don't touch, tell and adult.

I was at a NM Game and Fish 'taster' event at the weekend and I was delighted to see kids as young as 3 being shown how to safely fire and behave around guns. I was also seriously impressed with one parent who was absolutely drilling gun safety into his 4 year old and 7 year old.

Egan2012

clairefontaine wrote: »

Look. America has bears, cougars, mountain lions, coyotes etc. Guns are a part of life, kids therefore should be trained to stay away from one and to tell a grown up.

I do think parents should have to take gun safety course if they have a gun.

most 3 year olds wouldn't understand that about guns. The easiest thing is just not have them in the house. No common sence on the parents side of course. I wouldn't leave my young fella in a room on his own for 5 minutes or he would be hanging out of the ceiling. No matter how many times you tell him not to. That's what 3 year olds do

StinkyMunkey

Nodin wrote: »

But cars aren't the embodiment of All That Is Evil, and guns are.

Good place to start a thread about motoring and its many forms (accidents included):

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=546

This is a thread about the hazards of leaving a loaded gun around so your 3 yr old can play with it, not motoring accidents.

Nodin

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Good place to start a thread about motoring and its many forms (accidents included):

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=546

This is a thread about the hazards of leaving a loaded gun around so your 3 yr old can play with it, not motoring accidents.

..it is? Holy jaysus....

MadsL

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Good place to start a thread about motoring and its many forms (accidents included):

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=546

This is a thread about the hazards of leaving a loaded gun around so your 3 yr old can play with it, not motoring accidents.

There is nothing different in the outcome between a gun accident, a reversing over, or a drowning in a family pool. The outcome is the same, a dead child.

They are all preventable by mindfulness on the part of adults, and for some good training of the kids.

The only thing that is different about them is for some reason the gun death attracts people who want to moralise.

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

Where should off duty cops and security guards keep them?

Personally I would be a fan of a gun safe.



This was a CCW. So the friend would have done the course. He's an idiot.

1st grade gun safety would be helpful in schools.
Stop, don't touch, tell and adult.

I was at a NM Game and Fish 'taster' event at the weekend and I was delighted to see kids as young as 3 being shown how to safely fire and behave around guns. I was also seriously impressed with one parent who was absolutely drilling gun safety into his 4 year old and 7 year old.

That's a really good idea. I'm going to suggest that to my local school district.

Witcher

Egan2012 wrote: »

most 3 year olds wouldn't understand that about guns. The easiest thing is just not have them in the house.

So how do you feel about all the parents that own firearms in Ireland but yet you never hear of a child shooting themselves here?

The difference is that this lad threw a loaded gun in a press which is unheard of in Ireland unless you count elderly farmers that throw their gun behind the back door. It would be illegal anyway.

pablomakaveli

Nodin wrote: »

But cars aren't the embodiment of All That Is Evil, and guns are.

Thats not really a valid comparison. A gun is a weapon. A car is a mode of transport.

A car has many beneficial uses that validates it use and the risks that come with it.

A gun when used for its intended purpose is to kill or wound. Putting something like that into the hands of the average man or woman is ridiculous.

Herb Powell

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Can we stop doing the whole 'merika thing?

Once they stop, of course.

StinkyMunkey

MadsL wrote: »

There is nothing different in the outcome between a gun accident, a reversing over, or a drowning in a family pool. The outcome is the same, a dead child.

They are all preventable by mindfulness on the part of adults, and for some good training of the kids.

The only thing that is different about them is for some reason the gun death attracts people who want to moralise.

Quiet true, and now go tell the family whose child died that they really did need that gun for self defense.

MadsL

Egan2012 wrote: »

most 3 year olds wouldn't understand that about guns. The easiest thing is just not have them in the house. No common sence on the parents side of course. I wouldn't leave my young fella in a room on his own for 5 minutes or he would be hanging out of the ceiling. No matter how many times you tell him not to. That's what 3 year olds do

Most boys come out of the womb pointing a finger and going pew! pew!

If there is a gun in the house, lock it up.
Teach the child how to be safe, never touch it without an adult, go get an adult.
Teach the child to shoot if there is a gun in the house, that way they understand the difference between a toy and the real thing.
Again, never touch without an adult.
If you find one, stop, don't touch, go tell an adult.

These aren't hard rules for a 3 year to understand. Much the same as never touch the oven. Don't stick your fingers in the socket.

MadsL

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Quiet true, and now go tell the family whose child died that they really did need that gun for self defense.

Because that is what you want to debate instead of what happened?

Nice try.

Tox56

MadsL wrote: »

Because that is what you want to debate instead of what happened?

Nice try.

Do you never get bored of this? Every gun thread

Nodin

pablomakaveli wrote: »

............
A gun when used for its intended purpose is to kill or wound. Putting something like that into the hands of the average man or woman is ridiculous.

...I had no idea that targets were alive. Thanks for that.

What would you like the average man or woman to hunt with, btw?

Ush1

Nodin wrote: »

...I had no idea that targets were alive. Thanks for that.

What would you like the average man or woman to hunt with, btw?

Couldn't the hunters ram the animals with their cars? They're so similar to guns.

clairefontaine

Can someone answer how a three year old was able to pull this trigger?

clairefontaine

Ush1 wrote: »

Couldn't the hunters ram the animals with their cars? They're so similar to guns.

That's called road kill. Yes that happens sometimes.

pablomakaveli

Nodin wrote: »

...I had no idea that targets were alive. Thanks for that.

What would you like the average man or woman to hunt with, btw?

They need handguns and assault rifles to hunt?

Witcher

pablomakaveli wrote: »

They need handguns and assault rifles to hunt?

People licence semi automatics to hunt here so there is clearly a need for them if they're available even here.

MadsL

Tox56 wrote: »

Do you never get bored of this? Every gun thread

I'm not the one starting them. For instance I didn't start a thread on July 31 when a 17 year kid in Tulsa shot a 15 year who was yelling "I'm gonna kill ya!" trying to break down the door.

I have a point of view. If you don't like it, argue with me or ignore me I don't much mind.

MadsL

clairefontaine wrote: »

Can someone answer how a three year old was able to pull this trigger?

Trigger job. Could have been lightened to 2-3 lbs.

More reason NOT to have a trigger lightened, especially on a CCW.

cassid

Poor little angel.

Child locks are so useful and should be on anything that can cause harm to children, they are just so naturally curious in discovering under beds, closets. I have a little one I often have to seach for in the house, he loves to hide, not such good fun what you find the cot empty during the night!

MadsL

pablomakaveli wrote: »

They need handguns and assault rifles to hunt?

Yes, if I were hunting javelina (wild boar) I would want a very, very large caliber handgun .

If one of those charges, and you miss with a rifle, unless you have a sidearm you are getting your leg gored.

And..




*sigh*


How many times do we have to say it...

Full auto is not available to the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans and yes a "scary" black rifle is an extremely practical hunting weapon. I saw several at a NM Game and Fish event at the weekend.

pablomakaveli

MadsL wrote: »

Yes, if I were hunting javelina (wild boar) I would want a very, very large caliber handgun .

If one of those charges, and you miss with a rifle, unless you have a sidearm you are getting your leg gored.

And..




*sigh*


How many times do we have to say it...

Full auto is not available to the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans and yes a "scary" black rifle is an extremely practical hunting weapon. I saw several at a NM Game and Fish event at the weekend.

I seriously doubt every handgun owner in America is a boar hunter.

And having assault rifles available for hunting isn't exactly going to convince me that the risk and damage they can cause when turned on people is worth a slightly more efficient hunting experience.

Christ the Redeemer

Noting new for Yankestan. uncivilised ****hole.

No doubt there will be the usual chorus of yokels saying Obama made this happen so he can take their guns.

Nodin

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

Noting new for Yankestan. uncivilised ****hole.

No doubt there will be the usual chorus of yokels saying Obama made this happen so he can take their guns.

Being harsh there, tbh.

MadsL

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I seriously doubt every handgun owner in America is a boar hunter.

A moment ago you doubted handguns were used in hunting.

And having assault rifles available for hunting isn't exactly going to convince me that the risk and damage they can cause when turned on people is worth a slightly more efficient hunting experience.

Do you really want to do this? Have you the first notion of what this notional "assault rifle" is?

I shot a musket for the first time this weekend. It has a .50 cal ball. I sure as shit would not want to get shot by it, .50 cal is about as big as your thumbnail.

If I were to pick one to be shot with it sure would not be the musket.

Dave0301

MadsL wrote: »

Most boys come out of the womb pointing a finger and going pew! pew!

If there is a gun in the house, lock it up.
Teach the child how to be safe, never touch it without an adult, go get an adult.
Teach the child to shoot if there is a gun in the house, that way they understand the difference between a toy and the real thing.
Again, never touch without an adult.
If you find one, stop, don't touch, go tell an adult.

These aren't hard rules for a 3 year to understand. Much the same as never touch the oven. Don't stick your fingers in the socket.

These are essentials in most modern houses, cooking equipment and electricity essential for day to day living.

Is having a gun in the house essential?

pablomakaveli

MadsL wrote: »

A moment ago you doubted handguns were used in hunting.

And your example wasn't a convincing requirement for their use.

Do you really want to do this? Have you the first notion of what this notional "assault rifle" is?

I shot a musket for the first time this weekend. It has a .50 cal ball. I sure as shit would not want to get shot by it, .50 cal is about as big as your thumbnail.

If I were to pick one to be shot with it sure would not be the musket

Are assault rifles not available for purchase in the US?

Frankly i wouldn't like to be shot be either. I am a soldier so i'm well aware how destructive a .50 cal round can be. Haven't got to fire one yet with the biggest calibre i've fired being 7.62mm

Also i'm yet to see a convincing reason for a non-hunter to own a firearm.

Love2u

yoyo wrote: »

I wouldn't trust a 3 year old with a scissors never mind a bloody firearm :eek::eek::mad: . What gobsh!te doesn't unload their "personal protection" firearm or at least lock it up when their finished with it for the day.
Totally preventable incident like most of these mass shootings, child deaths due to firearms that occur over there. But sure the guns arn't the problem of course... And this news about shots fired at an elementary school in Atlanta also today? Just thankfully it wasn't another mass shooting..

Nick

What gobsh!te thinks its ok to own a firearm and then bring it into a home with an innocent child. The gun laws are not the problem, the brains of some people are the problem. RIP to a little angel.