Dublin rental prices up by over 7% in second quarter

mathie

Rental prices in Dublin rose by 7.5% in the three months from April to June, the latest Daft.ie rental report shows today.

Prices outside of Dublin rose by 1% over the same three-month period and Daft.ie says that the average rent is now €825, compared to €792 the same time last year.

Daft.ie said the increase in Dublin rents is due to a 43% fall in the number of available properties to rent, with 2,395 properties available at the start of this month compared to 4,212 at the start of August 2012.

Other cities outside of Dublin city have seen a combined 27% fall in the number of properties available to rent in the last 12 months.

Today's report shows that rental prices have risen in Cork and Galway by 2% and 3% respectively, while they fell by 3% in Waterford and were stable in Limerick.

Ronan Lyons, Daft.ie's economist, said the gap between Dublin rents and much of the rest of the country is a trend seen consistently over the last 12 to 18 months.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0819/468945-daft-ie-rents/

Noticed this myself in the last few months that rental prices seem to be on the up (Bray, Co. Wicklow)

murphaph

No no, there must be some mistake. Rents couldn't possibly be on the up, nor could prices. Just wait for all the repossessions to start, then we'll see etc. etc.

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

No no, there must be some mistake. Rents couldn't possibly be on the up, nor could prices. Just wait for all the repossessions to start, then we'll see etc. etc.

It's an obvious bubble. You'd think people would have learned to spot them a bit better after what we've been through.

listermint

murphaph wrote: »

No no, there must be some mistake. Rents couldn't possibly be on the up, nor could prices. Just wait for all the repossessions to start, then we'll see etc. etc.

Well repossesions havent started at any pace yet. So to be fair no one knows whats going to happen with that elephant in the room.

Do we have dublin specific statistics on mortgage arrears ?

That would be a better indicator of how the market will play out eventually.

Moonbeam

rent allowance also went up in most areas of Dublin,I wonder which caused which to happen.

stevedublin

Moonbeam wrote: »

rent allowance also went up in most areas of Dublin,I wonder which caused which to happen.

rents went up, which forced the government to increase rent allowance.

Penguino

Simple case of supply and demand

Huge increase in tenants looking for properties in Dublin and increase in purchasers looking to buy

gurramok

And the bedsit legislation did not help. It helped tenants with better accommodation but it might have forced landlords who were unwilling to convert to exit the market.

And the passing of the property tax by landlords onto the tenants into their leases will skew the price up a bit till at least June next year.

OMD

gaius c wrote: »

It's an obvious bubble. You'd think people would have learned to spot them a bit better after what we've been through.

After bubbles prices drop below their long term average. They then rise relatively quickly to their long term average and stay at that level. As prices in Ireland already dropped below their long term average it is reasonable that we are now in stage 2 where they revert to their long term average where they will probably stay.

Calling tiny rises in the price of property a bubble is a bit odd

techdiver

This country really depresses me!

Where else would you get a completely dysfunctional economy with massive unemployment/personal debt and emmegration and yet, the property market is still so vastly over priced for the average person with decent earnings.

What's even more depressing is the fact that a few steps can alleviate the issue, such as repossessing defaulting mortgages and zero government interference in the property market.

This country really need to wake up to the fact that high house prices is bad for the economy!

Idbatterim

when are they going to start building again?!!! the vacancy rates in Dublin are virtually non existent, rents are up quite considerably over the past 1.5-2 years!

camphor

listermint wrote: »

Well repossesions havent started at any pace yet. So to be fair no one knows whats going to happen with that elephant in the room.

.

Repossessions are more likely to put rents up rather than down.

who_ru

Idbatterim wrote: »

when are they going to start building again?!!! the vacancy rates in Dublin are virtually non existent, rents are up quite considerably over the past 1.5-2 years!

They won't be starting anytime soon. Irish banks won't lend.

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

It's an obvious bubble. You'd think people would have learned to spot them a bit better after what we've been through.

It's not a bubble. There are feck all properties available to rent. It's supply and demand. Rents have gone up around the same in my part of Berlin (Berlin supply has tightened markedly in the past 5 years). Is that a bubble too or is it only a bubble when it happens in Ireland?

Rents will fall again in Dublin when there's more supply or less demand.

murphaph

who_ru wrote: »

They won't be starting anytime soon. Irish banks won't lend.

For large scale building of apartment complexes there would be less reliance on the Irish banks. Big foreign investors with "cash on the hip" will not ignore strong rental yields in Dublin forever.

The Spider

techdiver wrote: »

This country really depresses me!

Where else would you get a completely dysfunctional economy with massive unemployment/personal debt and emmegration and yet, the property market is still so vastly over priced for the average person with decent earnings.

What's even more depressing is the fact that a few steps can alleviate the issue, such as repossessing defaulting mortgages and zero government interference in the property market.

This country really need to wake up to the fact that high house prices is bad for the economy!

As I've said before on another thread, the banks won't do mass reposessions as it will cost them too much, they will have to hire an army of people to deal with it, at a time where they're cutting staff and encouraging people to bank online, on top of that they'll have to take a massive hit on the mortgage.

Huge repossessions wont happen, it'll cost the banks too much, they'll only happen when prices rise far beyond where they are now, so that it makes financial sense to repossess and sell it on.

gurramok

murphaph wrote: »

For large scale building of apartment complexes there would be less reliance on the Irish banks. Big foreign investors with "cash on the hip" will not ignore strong rental yields in Dublin forever.

They already have bought

The Alliance building in the Gasworks at Ringsend which is conveniently next door to Google has been bought by Kennedy Wilson.
http://www.kennedywilson.com/526-kennedy-wilson-acquires-iconic-alliance-building-in-dublin

techdiver

The Spider wrote: »

As I've said before on another thread, the banks won't do mass reposessions as it will cost them too much, they will have to hire an army of people to deal with it, at a time where they're cutting staff and encouraging people to bank online, on top of that they'll have to take a massive hit on the mortgage.

Huge repossessions wont happen, it'll cost the banks too much, they'll only happen when prices rise far beyond where they are now, so that it makes financial sense to repossess and sell it on.

I'm talking about what is good for the country in the long run. I don't disagree with you that Banks won't do massive re-possessions, but they will have no choice than to repossess more than they are currently.

An economy built on high house prices is a bad economy. More affordable housing means more money is available to the wider economy instead of people using all their money to service large mortgages.

High house prices are good for a small proportion of property owners, landlords etc, but that's it. Unfortunately, the average dumbo on the street seems to think high house prices are good for the country. All this while they are paying €1,000 rent for a 1 bed apartment.

The Spider

techdiver wrote: »

I'm talking about what is good for the country in the long run. I don't disagree with you that Banks won't do massive re-possessions, but they will have no choice than to repossess more than they are currently.

An economy built on high house prices is a bad economy. More affordable housing means more money is available to the wider economy instead of people using all their money to service large mortgages.

High house prices are good for a small proportion of property owners, landlords etc, but that's it. Unfortunately, the average dumbo on the street seems to think high house prices are good for the country. All this while they are paying €1,000 rent for a 1 bed apartment.

€1,000 in Dublin is reasonable, I was paying 1270 for a basement apartment in Rathmines in 2002, it's now eleven years later, inflation alone means that's a fair price.

The banks won't repossess until it makes sense, they'll get repossession orders, but they don't have to act on them for twelve years. There's a huge overhead in terms of employing people to deal with all these alleged repossessions, if the bank hires an extra 100 people to deal with (they'd all have to hire a lot more than that) that's an extra 22000000, over 4 years, as you can't just let people go once their hired, and again the loss on each individual property.

The only way repossession will happen is when the price that can be achieved is close to the loan for the house. So they won't happen until prices rise, people will be left in their properties so as the bank doesn't crytalise it's loss.

House prices are all about supply and demand if there isn't much supply, prices will be higher, same as anything in the economy. Diamonds for instance are kept artificially restricted to ensure there's a high price. Opec does the same with oil.

There's plenty of supply of houses outside Dublin, people can buy and commute, but there's only a certain amount of space within the m50 and that space is at a premium and if you want some of it, then you have to pay for it.

gaius c

OMD wrote: »

After bubbles prices drop below their long term average. They then rise relatively quickly to their long term average and stay at that level. As prices in Ireland already dropped below their long term average it is reasonable that we are now in stage 2 where they revert to their long term average where they will probably stay.

Calling tiny rises in the price of property a bubble is a bit odd

Nothing is selling because the market is broken. You cannot ignore the broken sales market when examining the rental market because the increase in the numbers renting is down to the broken sales market.

turtleback78

murphaph wrote: »

It's not a bubble. There are feck all properties available to rent. It's supply and demand. Rents have gone up around the same in my part of Berlin (Berlin supply has tightened markedly in the past 5 years). Is that a bubble too or is it only a bubble when it happens in Ireland?

Rents will fall again in Dublin when there's more supply or less demand.

Are you insane? head out of the sand please there are empty properties all over the ****ing city and landlords swinging their dicks out the windows hoping to catch some fish.

:o:eek:

Ray Palmer

gaius c wrote: »

Nothing is selling because the market is broken. You cannot ignore the broken sales market when examining the rental market because the increase in the numbers renting is down to the broken sales market.

What "nothing" is selling? There is a shortage of houses suitable for families in Dublin and they are selling quickly and rising in price as a result. The sales market doesn't appear to be broken in Dublin at all.

Every house near me has gone sale agreed in less than a month. That is pretty healthy

Cuddlesworth

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What "nothing" is selling? There is a shortage of houses suitable for families in Dublin and they are selling quickly and rising in price as a result. The sales market doesn't appear to be broken in Dublin at all.

Every house near me has gone sale agreed in less than a month. That is pretty healthy

And about 7 years ago there were 10 times the number of houses going sale agreed. If the market recovers overnight, available property's double or triple from natural movement, who is going to snap up all these lovely deals? I've got a very healthy income at a young age and would struggle to get a mortgage in this environment from our current banks.

I have no idea where the property market is going to go, like the rest of the country. But you can't ignore the tiny sales volume, the huge numbers of arrears and the overwhelming amount of cash buyers. Any sign of trouble again, the case buyers will disappear and the banks will crumble. Its a house of cards beside a open door.

Ray Palmer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

And about 7 years ago there were 10 times the number of houses going sale agreed. If the market recovers overnight, available property's double or triple from natural movement, who is going to snap up all these lovely deals? I've got a very healthy income at a young age and would struggle to get a mortgage in this environment from our current banks.

I have no idea where the property market is going to go, like the rest of the country. But you can't ignore the tiny sales volume, the huge numbers of arrears and the overwhelming amount of cash buyers. Any sign of trouble again, the case buyers will disappear and the banks will crumble. Its a house of cards beside a open door.

But that has nothing to do with what you said. You said nothing is sell when in fact everything is selling.

It is also a bit of a misnomer that houses kept selling up to the crash. Sales dropped off but prices kept rising. So when people talk of houses loosing value they often ignore that the top prices involved quite few houses.

I couldn't afford to buy my house now with current borrowing rules but can afford the mortgage (tracker)and could afford it if I got a mortgage now too. Sounds like the mortgage market are broken more than the property market. The banks won't crumble from that.

gaius c

Ray Palmer wrote: »

But that has nothing to do with what you said. You said nothing is sell when in fact everything is selling.

It is also a bit of a misnomer that houses kept selling up to the crash. Sales dropped off but prices kept rising. So when people talk of houses loosing value they often ignore that the top prices involved quite few houses.

I couldn't afford to buy my house now with current borrowing rules but can afford the mortgage (tracker)and could afford it if I got a mortgage now too. Sounds like the mortgage market are broken more than the property market. The banks won't crumble from that.

Cuddlesworth is not me!

Nothing is selling because sales volume is tiny despite the "enormous pent up demand" that bulls constantly refer to. Market recovery should be judged by transaction volume, not prices. And to get transaction volume back, prices have to drop...

And you're quite right, sales volume at the top of the bubble started puffing about a year before the price peak as developers started chucking in "free kitchens" to try and keep the prices up.

murphaph

turtleback78 wrote: »

Are you insane? head out of the sand please there are empty properties all over the ****ing city and landlords swinging their dicks out the windows hoping to catch some fish.

:o:eek:

Hmmm, whatever. If you think there are loads of empty properties in Dublin then there's not much I am likely to do to change your mind. Even the majority of tenants on here wouldn't deny that there's upward pressure on vacancies at present.

There are empty properties at any one time by the way, about 2,000 of them right now according to daft (first choice for rentals in Dublin by a mile, even given their rip off prices) but these arefiled and new ones become vacant. So it's not the same 2,000 that are vacant.

2,000 or whatever it is is however less than 1% of total housing stock in Dublin county of course, so quite what you mean with "empty properties all over the city" I have no idea.

Frank Lee Midere

The Spider wrote: »

As I've said before on another thread, the banks won't do mass reposessions as it will cost them too much, they will have to hire an army of people to deal with it, at a time where they're cutting staff and encouraging people to bank online, on top of that they'll have to take a massive hit on the mortgage.

Huge repossessions wont happen, it'll cost the banks too much, they'll only happen when prices rise far beyond where they are now, so that it makes financial sense to repossess and sell it on.

In this country you owe the mortgage after repossession unless you declare bankruptcy.

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

Nothing is selling because the market is broken. You cannot ignore the broken sales market when examining the rental market because the increase in the numbers renting is down to the broken sales market.

I don't believe tha market is broken. I believe that we should NEVER have had the huge numbers of transactions taking place each year leading up to the boom. In Germany the housing market is not broken yet has very few transactions per capita compared to Ireland of the boom. Loads of people buying and selling homes (only making solicitors and estate agents richer) does not make for a healthy housing market. In Germany you save up a huge deposit and then buy the house you'll probably die in, if you can afford it, otherwise you'll rent till you die (what about half the people do).

The reality now is that many people could never afford the house they bought and many still can't afford to buy a house and renting is going to be a way of life for them now, not just a stopgap solution. People will start to realise that the level of transactions we saw during the boom will not (hopefully) happen again.

Frank Lee Midere

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What "nothing" is selling? There is a shortage of houses suitable for families in Dublin and they are selling quickly and rising in price as a result. The sales market doesn't appear to be broken in Dublin at all.

Every house near me has gone sale agreed in less than a month. That is pretty healthy

But that's because of an artificially limited supply.

Frank Lee Midere

murphaph wrote: »

I don't believe tha market is broken. I believe that we should NEVER have had the huge numbers of transactions taking place each year leading up to the boom. In Germany the housing market is not broken yet has very few transactions per capita compared to Ireland of the boom. Loads of people buying and selling homes (only making solicitors and estate agents richer) does not make for a healthy housing market. In Germany you save up a huge deposit and then buy the house you'll probably die in, if you can afford it, otherwise you'll rent till you die (what about half the people do).

The reality now is that many people could never afford the house they bought and many still can't afford to buy a house and renting is going to be a way of life for them now, not just a stopgap solution. People will start to realise that the level of transactions we saw during the boom will not (hopefully) happen again.

It doesn't have to. It's running at 5% now. That's what distorts the markets.

I don't get either the idea that the banks won't go after non payers until prices recover, to boom level, as that's not going to happen. The banks need capital now and people will still repay the remainder of the mortgage unless they declare bankruptcy. What's stopping repossessions is politics.

Frank Lee Midere

murphaph wrote: »

Hmmm, whatever. If you think there are loads of empty properties in Dublin then there's not much I am likely to do to change your mind. Even the majority of tenants on here wouldn't deny that there's upward pressure on vacancies at present.

There are empty properties at any one time by the way, about 2,000 of them right now according to daft (first choice for rentals in Dublin by a mile, even given their rip off prices) but these arefiled and new ones become vacant. So it's not the same 2,000 that are vacant.

2,000 or whatever it is is however less than 1% of total housing stock in Dublin county of course, so quite what you mean with "empty properties all over the city" I have no idea.

You would need to look at average time on the market to work out the number of properties rented per year.

Edit : but there has been a clear drop - by 50% - in the number of properties available since August. That's interesting. Does it make sense considering continuos emigration? Reductions in income etc. ?

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

nomoreindie

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You would need to look at average time on the market to work out the number of properties rented per year.

Edit : but there has been a clear drop - by 50% - in the number of properties available since August. That's interesting. Does it make sense considering continuos emigration? Reductions in income etc. ?

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

Those btlers not paying mortgages are more likely to be renting out and pocketing the rent building up a nest egg. That is why some banks are using rent receivers to get this money

The Spider

nomoreindie wrote: »

Those btlers not paying mortgages are more likely to be renting out and pocketing the rent building up a nest egg. That is why some banks are using rent receivers to get this money

Well at the end of the day, He who dares... and all that!

Anyone who thinks properties will be repossessed and people made pay the balance is living in cloud cuckoo land, never going to happen.

If you want to buy a house, do it now, prices are going to continue to climb, it was only a few months ago we were talking about the boom in SCD now it's all over Dublin. This is going to spread outwards to the commuter towns, guaranteed.

If Dublins out of your range pick a town outside where hou'll get value, as that value won't be there in six months time.

These rises can happen for longer than you think. I thought the bubble'd pop in 2000 after the rises from 95 onwards, boy was I wrong.

nomoreindie

The Spider wrote: »

Well at the end of the day, He who dares... and all that!

Anyone who thinks properties will be repossessed and people made pay the balance is living in cloud cuckoo land, never going to happen.

If you want to buy a house, do it now, prices are going to continue to climb, it was only a few months ago we were talking about the boom in SCD now it's all over Dublin. This is going to spread outwards to the commuter towns, guaranteed.

If Dublins out of your range pick a town outside where hou'll get value, as that value won't be there in six months time.

These rises can happen for longer than you think. I thought the bubble'd pop in 2000 after the rises from 95 onwards, boy was I wrong.

I'd like you to provide proof that buying property is a one way bet. I feel that you are simply trying to wind up people on this forum.

The Spider

nomoreindie wrote: »

I'd like you to provide proof that buying property is a one way bet. I feel that you are simply trying to wind up people on this forum.

There's nothing a one way bet, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up, this discussion had gone on months, and I've been proven right in everything I've said, and I'll be proven right again.

Lot of people around here are in denial about prices and how they're suddenly going to crash another 50% having dropped 50-60% from the peak.

How am I winding people up, is saying there's going to be a never ending crash, not doing the same?

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

who_ru

The Spider wrote: »

There's nothing a one way bet, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up, this discussion had gone on months, and I've been proven right in everything I've said, and I'll be proven right again.

Lot of people around here are in denial about prices and how they're suddenly going to crash another 50% having dropped 50-60% from the peak.

How am I winding people up, is saying there's going to be a never ending crash, not doing the same?

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

Talking through your h*le all night long. go to bed.

The Spider

who_ru wrote: »

Talking through your h*le all night long. go to bed.

Ha, those rising prices getting to ya?

OMD

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

So people who could get money and spend it are deciding not to get this money! Doesn't make a lot of sense to me

Ray Palmer

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You would need to look at average time on the market to work out the number of properties rented per year.

Edit : but there has been a clear drop - by 50% - in the number of properties available since August. That's interesting. Does it make sense considering continuos emigration? Reductions in income etc. ?

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

Except the banks are selling these debts and the people who buy them are offering the mortgage holders deals.

I don't see it as fair but financially it makes sense.

gaius c

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You would need to look at average time on the market to work out the number of properties rented per year.

Edit : but there has been a clear drop - by 50% - in the number of properties available since August. That's interesting. Does it make sense considering continuos emigration? Reductions in income etc. ?

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

It's an annual thing. Students are back to college and need somewhere to live.

Talking of lack of supply, here is what a letting agent on the Pin has to say:

Yep, rents are up c10% in town and SCD.
Rents for students are up c15%+.

There is an extreme tightness of available supply, especially in the student market.

Of course, if you stick a compass in UCD and draw a minor 3-mile radial arc stretching from the Stillorgan Road to Sandyford you can probably satisfy this demand from empty and unfinished developments.

But sure ... who would that benefit ?

gaius c

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Except the banks are selling these debts and the people who buy them are offering the mortgage holders deals.

I don't see it as fair but financially it makes sense.

Ray. Bear in mind that it is the Indo reporting this so the story needs to be treated with suspicion. For starters, the likes of Pepper are short-term, quick buck merchants. They won't be interested in refixing the loan long term so what is more likely (in the case wher €90k was mentioned) is that they'll clear the mortgage if you pony up €90k cash to buy their loan out, otherwise they repo.

Anything the Indo says needs to be taken with a pinch of salt because they are either deliberately or accidentally misreporting/distorting facts to suit their agenda/stupidity.

Frank Lee Midere

The Spider wrote: »

There's nothing a one way bet, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up, this discussion had gone on months, and I've been proven right in everything I've said, and I'll be proven right again.

Lot of people around here are in denial about prices and how they're suddenly going to crash another 50% having dropped 50-60% from the peak.

How am I winding people up, is saying there's going to be a never ending crash, not doing the same?

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

Your company waxes?

IT is booming, but that's all. It's not the reason why properties are increasing. the reasons are clear and documented. Limited supply because of lack of repossession.

You are an economic illiterate of the type who got into this problem in the first place, its entertaining to hear someone think that mortgage holders will be allowed to not pay their mortgages until they want, or until the market "recovers" so the banks can realize their profits. Since the market is never going to recover to 2006 levels you believe that a whole group of people will not ever have to pay mortgages, meanwhile an excluded rental sector will pay them rent. The banks need capital to shore up their loan books, a defaulting mortgage is worth zero, selling the house and getting payments is worth money. This is how it happens everywhere else in the world.. If the banks need more capital from Europe, it will happen rapidly.

murphaph

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Your company waxes?

'X' is beside 'S' on most keyboards. It was clearly a typo.

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

IT is booming, but that's all. It's not the reason why properties are increasing. the reasons are clear and documented. Limited supply because of lack of repossession

Yet again we have this idea presented here that repossessing houses will create more living space and reduce rents. So I ask again, where do the previous occupants of a repossessed property go?

If they were tenants before and the LL got repossessed, then they'll rent from the new LL, whomever that may be. No new dwelling becomes available.

If they were owner occupiers, then they'll need to rent from someone else. One becomes available and another becomes occupied. No net new availability.

Neither scenario results in a single extra dwelling becoming available to rent!!!

Frank Lee Midere

murphaph wrote: »

'X' is beside 'S' on most keyboards. It was clearly a typo.


Yet again we have this idea presented here that repossessing houses will create more living space and reduce rents. So I ask again, where do the previous occupants of a repossessed property go?

If they were tenants before and the LL got repossessed, then they'll rent from the new LL, whomever that may be. No new dwelling becomes available.

If they were owner occupiers, then they'll need to rent from someone else. One becomes available and another becomes occupied. No net new availability.

Neither scenario results in a single extra dwelling becoming available to rent!!!

The supply of rental property is under pressure because people can't get on the housing ladder, increasing rental demand. So prices will fall when these people do get their own houses, it just means that house prices will have a potential floor . The reduction in rental availability is in fact hard to explain, as the population is dropping at about 34K a year. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/popmig_2012.pdf - which is about as high as most years in the 1980's except the high points of 1989 and 1990. These people are clearly not renting. It should be reducing rental demand in Dublin by 10,000 people a year.

Given this reality, and the fact that both housing and rents are increasing, there must be some hoarding of housing, not just banks.

OMD

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The supply of rental property is under pressure because people can't get on the housing ladder, increasing rental demand. So prices will fall when these people do get their own houses, it just means that house prices will have a potential floor . The reduction in rental availability is in fact hard to explain, as the population is dropping at about 34K a year. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/popmig_2012.pdf - which is about as high as most years in the 1980's except the high points of 1989 and 1990. These people are clearly not renting. It should be reducing rental demand in Dublin by 10,000 people a year.

Given this reality, and the fact that both housing and rents are increasing, there must be some hoarding of housing, not just banks.

Household size has got smaller so the number of houses/apartments to house the same number of people has increased.
By the way the population overall is increasing not decreasing as you say

Victor

The Spider wrote: »

Ha, those rising prices getting to ya?

No need for taunting.

Moderator

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

'X' is beside 'S' on most keyboards. It was clearly a typo.


Yet again we have this idea presented here that repossessing houses will create more living space and reduce rents. So I ask again, where do the previous occupants of a repossessed property go?

If they were tenants before and the LL got repossessed, then they'll rent from the new LL, whomever that may be. No new dwelling becomes available.

If they were owner occupiers, then they'll need to rent from someone else. One becomes available and another becomes occupied. No net new availability.

Neither scenario results in a single extra dwelling becoming available to rent!!!

You're forgetting the scenario where the mortgage holder moves out and rents a place but leaves the original empty. Tends to happen where the original mortgaged property is too small for the household's needs (i.e. shoebox apartment).

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

You're forgetting the scenario where the mortgage holder moves out and rents a place but leaves the original empty. Tends to happen where the original mortgaged property is too small for the household's needs (i.e. shoebox apartment).

How often do you think your scenario occurs?

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

How often do you think your scenario occurs?

No real way of knowing but I know of at least two households doing it. One of them has left the country.

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

No real way of knowing but I know of at least two households doing it. One of them has left the country.

Extraordinarily rarely then.

shamrock2004

The Spider wrote: »

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

Talking ****. Im working 7 years in IT (development) and still couldnt comfortably afford a mortgage. And with yet more taxes coming down the line (forgetting next month's budget) i'd rather not. I'll struggle to rent a 2 bed apartment in dublin next january, but what choice do I have?