Grouse?

Stonehall9

Well men, was speaking to an old friend of my fathers yesterday and we were having a good old chat about Shootin and how I was goin with the dogs and that , we got talkin about the "glorious 12th " in England and grouse shooting, to my surprise he was able to tell me where, close enough to us, where grouse are still found, just wondering if any of ye are aware of grouse close to ye and do lads meet some while out rough Shootin ???

blackwater doc

I know where there is a few but to be fair to the bird I won't shoot them there too scarce I'd love to go to Scotland though

Tawny Owl

The minute you mention the area where Grouse can be seen. You would have every Tom,Dick and Harry in that the area, including there dogs, which is not helpful especially to the people trying to establish the breed, there very hard to get going only suited to certain area's. So you may not get anyone saying where they have seen them, But great to see them.

Stonehall9

Tawny Owl wrote: »

The minute you mention the area where Grouse can be seen. You would have every Tom,Dick and Harry in that the area, including there dogs, which is not helpful especially to the people trying to establish the breed, there very hard to get going only suited to certain area's. So you may not get anyone saying where they have seen them, But great to see them.

Exactly the reason I didn't say where tawny! But that's how we got to the subject, I've a pointer pup heading to his first pheasant season in November and this lad is, we'll was, bit too old now, but a good pointer man and used to run his dogs in this spot, he says a lad he knows uses it with setters for training, but like the previous poster doesn't shoot it, I'm goin to head there Saturday Mornin to see for myself!!

deerhunter1

blackwater doc wrote: »

I know where there is a few but to be fair to the bird I won't shoot them there too scarce I'd love to go to Scotland though

Same here

mallards

I'm doing a count myself tomorrow with the gsp. I got a new camera thing so hopefully I'll have something to report back on!

underthetumb

There is a nice few on some permission I have, very very remote area. Lovely to come across them, early in the morning when out stalking. But as said, if lads found out where they were they wouldn't be there much longer.

ace86

Are ye guys doing alot of vermin in or near these areas? Myself and mate have been trapping crows and mapies and at foxes in or close to area for the past couple yrs but havent seen any big numbers. we did a small bit of burning in February this yr and might do a bit more nxt month. Like alot of the guys here we don' t tell too many people where they are and if they are there bcos like that fellows will shoot them especially Guilles who bring around foregin shooters to the area.

Tawny Owl

ace86 wrote: »

Are ye guys doing alot of vermin in or near these areas? Myself and mate have been trapping crows and mapies and at foxes in or close to area for the past couple yrs but havent seen any big numbers. we did a small bit of burning in February this yr and might do a bit more nxt month. Like alot of the guys here we don' t tell too many people where they are and if they are there bcos like that fellows will shoot them especially Guilles who bring around foregin shooters to the area.

Well done keep it going on the vermin control, success is all down to staying on top of the vermin.;)

ace86

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Well done keep it going on the vermin control, success is all down to staying on top of the vermin.;)

Would like to rise a just one pack of 5 r 6 it would be nice to see at least you know your heading in the right direction. Came across 4 young wild mallard in a small lake near me this evening so it does pay off in time as you say.

fitzy_fitzy

The fact that they are so scarce. Why don't they put a temporary ban on shooting them? I know one or two lads who shoot them.
Don't entirely agree with it.
Would love to go to Scotland though, very expensive.
Was at a couple of trials last year as spectator.
Very scarce, they only came across a couple of braces.

ace86

fitzy_fitzy wrote: »

The fact that they are so scarce. Why don't they put a temporary ban on shooting them? I know one or two lads who shoot them.
Don't entirely agree with it.
Would love to go to Scotland though, very expensive.
Was at a couple of trials last year as spectator.
Very scarce, they only came across a couple of braces.

The biggest fear is if there taken off the hunting season list for game birds the chances of geting them put bak on after numbers have been brought up could prove more difficult. If people simply just refrained from shooting and do a small bit of management it would benefit grouse and any other birds in the area.

DavyDee

Great breeding year from what i can see so far this year, put up 18 last week in one spot while out training the dog. 3 different pairs of adult birds. One pair of birds had 5 young, one pair had 7, the other had none that i seen but the dog was fooked by the time we came across them on the way back to the car and i didnt make too much of an effort to check that area too well. Would still be very careful about what Id shoot, might seem like big numbers but you can only rely on the 6 adult birds there to produce next year again if were lucky. Last years young were in very poor condition, most pairs only had one or two juvenile birds left by september, but this years I have to say looked very good and were great flyers. Will be out again a few times a week to get an idea of numbers before i decide if I will shoot any come september or not.

ace86

DavyDee wrote: »

Great breeding year from what i can see so far this year, put up 18 last week in one spot while out training the dog. 3 different pairs of adult birds. One pair of birds had 5 young, one pair had 7, the other had none that i seen but the dog was fooked by the time we came across them on the way back to the car and i didnt make too much of an effort to check that area too well. Would still be very careful about what Id shoot, might seem like big numbers but you can only rely on the 6 adult birds there to produce next year again if were lucky. Last years young were in very poor condition, most pairs only had one or two juvenile birds left by september, but this years I have to say looked very good and were great flyers. Will be out again a few times a week to get an idea of numbers before i decide if I will shoot any come september or not.

Thats very good news nice to see a few knocking around the place and another few days out with the dog could turn up more but hold tough on shooting this year as we don't know what kind of a year we will have nxt yr and if you refrain from shooting you might boost numbers a bit more and have a few more adult birds for next year for breeding.

deeksofdoom

The money that's generated by grouse shooting in Scotland is what is being used to develop their habitat and protect them.

To many greedy ****ers in this country to let something like that happen here.

323

blackwater doc wrote: »

I know where there is a few but to be fair to the bird I won't shoot them there too scarce I'd love to go to Scotland though

Likewise, 3 different areas, 2 that I hunt deer on, see them regularly.

deeksofdoom wrote: »

The money that's generated by grouse shooting in Scotland is what is being used to develop their habitat and protect them.

To many greedy ****ers in this country to let something like that happen here.

Agree 100%, unfortunately.

mallards

Went for another run today and typically nothing all the way along the ridge line while I had the wind in our faces. We then turned for home and bumped a brace who heard us coming. I have it from mine and the dogs point of view but I wish they were closer as I can barely see them on the original. I know there are this barren brace, a single cock bird and a covey of nine all on this strip of heather.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWhHbKJx_nU

Wildsport

HI Mallards, Just saw your post any luck with the count and camera.

The Aussie

Forgot this thread.


Took the Dog out on Thursday afternoon for a walk and he put one up on the Bogeragh Mountains here, only the third one ive seen in over a year, the farmer put up/is putting up his Fox traps this weekend near by, he was ecstatic when I told him as he would love to see them in numbers without any pressures from man or predator, he still remembers years ago the hunting parties travelling from the 4 corners of Ireland and further afield to shoot in his Parrish with pride and sadness.

Wildsport

Glad to hear that, but I am seeing more than a few barren pairs, not sure why as I thought the conditions ideal for a good breeding season.

mallards

Not quite sure myself, we had a bit of snow in the late spring and that might have had an effect? I was talking to a lad today who knows this other fella who shoots driven grouse on the scottish borders and he was telling him it is a bumper year over there with big bags. Pity we don't have that level keeping on our heather to give that number of birds! But as I said to my mate, tell yer man he'd have far better craic walking them up behind a good pointing dog;-)

Birdnuts

Wildsport wrote: »

Glad to hear that, but I am seeing more than a few barren pairs, not sure why as I thought the conditions ideal for a good breeding season.

Grouse are susceptible to a number of diseases, the most serious one being a tick bourne ailment called Louping ill . Young birds are most susceptible and it can kill up to 80% of chicks. On many moors in the UK its the main cause of mortality(which is why some use medicated grit to treat birds). Tick numbers this year may have been elevated due to the hot weather which also makes them more active. Indeed I've noticed more than usual on some of the sheep on my place in the West early last month. The dogs picked up a fair few this summer too:(

Wildsport

Interesting Grouse project going on in Leitrim between NPWS (parks and wildlife) and the NARGC (regional gun clubs) with a full time game keeper I might contact them.

mallards

Wildsport wrote: »

Interesting Grouse project going on in Leitrim between NPWS (parks and wildlife) and the NARGC (regional gun clubs) with a full time game keeper I might contact them.

I met him at the nargc stand at shanes castle, nice lad and very well informed.

Wildsport

I have heard that, if thats your pond it looks pretty good, were you in a hide.

Capercaille

Birdnuts wrote: »

Grouse are susceptible to a number of diseases, the most serious one being a tick bourne ailment called Louping ill . Young birds are most susceptible and it can kill up to 80% of chicks. On many moors in the UK its the main cause of mortality(which is why some use medicated grit to treat birds). Tick numbers this year may have been elevated due to the hot weather which also makes them more active. Indeed I've noticed more than usual on some of the sheep on my place in the West early last month. The dogs picked up a fair few this summer too:(

The medicated grit is used to treat Strongylosis not Louping ill. Stronglosisis a major problem on grouse estates where grouse numbers are kept at articifically high numbers. There is no treatment for louping ill

German pointer

There is a campaign going on in North Tipp Galway Clare and maybe else where where I have some permissions for deer asking people not to shoot them yet today I saw 3 or 4 lads with setters on a hill hunting them and they most certainly walked under the signs asking them no to shoot the grouse,

Capercaille

German pointer wrote: »

There is a campaign going on in North Tipp Galway Clare and maybe else where where I have some permissions for deer asking people not to shoot them yet today I saw 3 or 4 lads with setters on a hill hunting them and they most certainly walked under the signs asking them no to shoot the grouse,

Perhaps a temporary ban for 5 years till numbers possible recover a bit would be helpfull.

ace86

I think you will need the support of the landowners especially in this situation as well as local hunters in the area but like that these guys could have drove from another parish or county to go shooting there. I was talking to an indivdual at Birr this wknd where a person drove nearly 3hrs to go shooting on a conversation site a fellow has been doing work on for the past few years to boost numbers so some fellows don't care once they get a day out really.

DavyDee

Capercaille wrote: »

Perhaps a temporary ban for 5 years till numbers possible recover a bit would be helpfull.

Not gonna change a thing. The biggest problem facing grouse is a genetic bottle neck, caused by loss of habitat mainly due to the huge areas of bog been cut away by bord na mona and in other areas where coveys get cut off from one another due to forestry. Other aspects such as the way the bogs are cut. In the past when turf was cut by hand, the turf cutter burned away the top scraw on the bank before cutting which produced the young heather. Bad weather and lack of predator control play their part as always. The only hope the red grouse has in most areas if the gun clubs and interested parties take a pro-active approach like they have done on Boleybrack in Leitrim. Believe it or not 5 year ban would do little or no good, maybe just prolong the current situation by a few years. It would cause the heather to grow out of control on areas as is happening in our national parks and the National Parks and Wildlife give 2 sh**es about the grouse. All they are bothered about is pumping millions a year into reinstating birds of prey!

Capercaille

DavyDee wrote: »

Not gonna change a thing. The biggest problem facing grouse is a genetic bottle neck, caused by loss of habitat mainly due to the huge areas of bog been cut away by bord na mona and in other areas where coveys get cut off from one another due to forestry. Other aspects such as the way the bogs are cut. In the past when turf was cut by hand, the turf cutter burned away the top scraw on the bank before cutting which produced the young heather. Bad weather and lack of predator control play their part as always. The only hope the red grouse has in most areas if the gun clubs and interested parties take a pro-active approach like they have done on Boleybrack in Leitrim. Believe it or not 5 year ban would do little or no good, maybe just prolong the current situation by a few years. It would cause the heather to grow out of control on areas as is happening in our national parks and the National Parks and Wildlife give 2 sh**es about the grouse.

The people in Boleybrack are doing a great job and numbers of grouse have increased. I'd like to see more projects like the Lough boora grey partridge project. They are also involved in Red Grouse conservation. The amount of money that is spent by the NPWS on conservation is a fraction of the amount needed.

All they are bothered about is pumping millions a year into reinstating birds of prey

The Golden Eagle trust (registered charity) are the main body behind the raptor reintroduction projects not the NPWS and have basically ended since all the birds have been released (still trying to source Golden Eaglets though)

Birdnuts

DavyDee wrote: »

do little or no good, maybe just prolong the current situation by a few years. It would cause the heather to grow out of control on areas as is happening in our national parks and the National Parks and Wildlife give 2 sh**es about the grouse. !

Its a mixed picture. Wicklow Mtns NP is probably the easiest place in the country to find grouse. I always see them when I go up around the Sallygap/Kilbride area. Plus Ballycroy NP in Mayo have a grouse team that are working on preventing the overgrazing of heather(still a big problem in many Western areas) and restoring grouse habitat on former Coillte land that was incorporated into the park only last year.

Most of the decline in Grouse numbers occurred between the 1940's and the early 90's which of course corresponded with the main activities of Bord na Mona and Coillte. Overstocking of commonages thanx to the CAP in the 80's hammered any decent habitat that was left. Going on the latest estimates numbers of Grouse have stabilized since the early 90's at about 5000 adults birds(that figure does not include juveniles who's numbers obviously vary year to year).

Wildsport

It is a shame to hunt Grouse where there numbers are small, but a bit of work can achieve good results if the will is there. It is better to do anything than nothing. This is a noble bird our oldest native game bird and any help it gets it deserves. Best example of what can be done was by a Game Keeper on the Glenwherry estate Co Antrim.

Brazzill

What about the man that has never shot a grouse? Would ye frown upon him?

charlie10

i would love to see one and at least see a dog work one and see its flight pattern and maybe dare i say it .........

ace86

Brazzill wrote: »

What about the man that has never shot a grouse? Would ye frown upon him?

No lad but hopefully some day they will come more plentiful with alot of conservation work being done by alot of people and you will hopefully get a chance to shoot one someday.I have only ever shot 1 and I mean 1 and my mate has it stuffed and perserved in his house.

Browning

Like most things in life there is never a single cause or a single solution and this is certainly the case with the plight of the Red Grouse in Ireland. Despite all the aforementioned gloom there has been a lot of very important work has being going on in the background. At the forefront of this work as mentioned by Capercaillie has been the IGPCT. (Irish Grey Partridge Conservation Trust). Watch for news of an important/ground breaking announcement from the Ploughing Championships on the 25th September. The issues with Red Grouse
in Ireland are complex given the number of different sectoral interests who are touched by the plight of Red Grouse and the issue which surround them. Farming, Forestry, Energy, Hunting and Conservation interests all have a viewpoint/interest on the future for red grouse. Bringing all those positions forward for the good of Red Grouse is the only way forward.

Wildsport

news on Grouse, lets hope that it will be worth waiting for, you might post headlines when you hear tks

Wildsport

DavyDee wrote: »

Great breeding year from what i can see so far this year, put up 18 last week in one spot while out training the dog. 3 different pairs of adult birds. One pair of birds had 5 young, one pair had 7, the other had none that i seen but the dog was fooked by the time we came across them on the way back to the car and i didnt make too much of an effort to check that area too well. Would still be very careful about what Id shoot, might seem like big numbers but you can only rely on the 6 adult birds there to produce next year again if were lucky. Last years young were in very poor condition, most pairs only had one or two juvenile birds left by september, but this years I have to say looked very good and were great flyers. Will be out again a few times a week to get an idea of numbers before i decide if I will shoot any come september or not.

Hi I am in the north west and it has been a terrible breeding year just wondering if you have been out lately

ace86

This just announced:
http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2013/09/minister-deenihan-launches-species-action-plan-for-irelands-red-grouse-at-the-national-ploughing-championships-in-laois

DavyDee

Wildsport wrote: »

Hi I am in the north west and it has been a terrible breeding year just wondering if you have been out lately

Havent been out in a few weeks but seen far more juvenile birds this year than the last few years and they appeared to be in really good condition and good sized birds. Good breeding pair where I run the dog but it varies from year to year, the last 2 years were poor.

Wildsport

It seems some areas are doing better we thought this warm dry year would be good but it has not turned out that way. Doing a count tomorrow hopefully we will meet a few birds.

Wildsport

Thanks for that, I hope the action plan means what it says.

ace86

Wildsport wrote: »

It seems some areas are doing better we thought this warm dry year would be good but it has not turned out that way. Doing a count tomorrow hopefully we will meet a few birds.

Best of luck hope you meet a few birds.

ace86

Wildsport wrote: »

Thanks for that, I hope the action plan means what it says.

Yes lets hope so Its about time anyway with numbers in serious decline with a number of years but alot of people and orginisations are doing a lot of conservation work especially Boleybrack Mountain and the likes but alot more has to be done.

Wildsport

ace86 wrote: »

Yes lets hope so Its about time anyway with numbers in serious decline with a number of years but alot of people and orginisations are doing a lot of conservation work especially Boleybrack Mountain and the likes but alot more has to be done.

HI Ace, Might be just rotten luck, today worst than last and even running dogs is hard to justify. We will go on, but site after site is showing a dramatic fall in numbers. Tuff stuff

ace86

Wildsport wrote: »

HI Ace, Might be just rotten luck, today worst than last and even running dogs is hard to justify. We will go on, but site after site is showing a dramatic fall in numbers. Tuff stuff

Sorry to hear that at least your meeting something I remember myself and my mate were in Tipperary this year with the Irish Red Grouse Association and there were guys there with perfect habitat and no birds on it so I suppose you can consider yourself fortunate in other ways.

Wildsport

Hi I thought Tipp area was going very well, we have had terrible fires and that has caused no end of damage to resident pairs and I suspect that is where most of our trouble lies.
WS

rowa

There was a very good article on todays "mooney goes wild" on rte radio 1 today, about the grouse in ireland. gun clubs and the Nargc came in for much praise.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/mooney/

ace86

Wildsport wrote: »

Hi I thought Tipp area was going very well, we have had terrible fires and that has caused no end of damage to resident pairs and I suspect that is where most of our trouble lies.
WS

Ya thats the problem one fire can do so much damage if fellows just burn strips here and there it would ten times be more beneficial to everything and repeat burning the same ground also destroys all vegetation and all is lost for a good while.

spideog7

Hoping to do a bit of Grouse shooting myself here, the season opens in a few weeks. Although it is Ruffed Grouse so a different bird and different habitat. Tough to find and put up but the only real game bird around here unfortunately, that and Woodcock.

I think I saw a grouse once at home, put up out of the top of the bog, must be about 15 years ago or more though.