Dial-up Internet

GreenWolfe

Overheal wrote: »

If you can handle the technical crap that we've discussed in this thread yourself, and you can't explain obsolescence to somebody, then I don't even-

I mean are they hiding a body inside the case or something?

I wonder if the ideas in my earlier post were ever given any thought by the OP.

That being said, there are just some people out there who will just never, ever accept that a computer bought almost 20 years ago (no matter what condition it's in) is completely useless. For what it's worth, I've tried (and failed) to give the same talk to a few people I know

Overheal

I'm usually pretty good about it by the numbers.

A 95 machine MIGHT have broken 100Mhz. A modern PC clocks 20-40 times faster. Also the transistor count on such an old machine had to be measured in the thousands, versus the billions seen today. Modern machines using the same power requirements cycle 40 times faster and compute thousands more calculations per cycle.

More importantly, software is designed to run on new machines not old machines. You get it online you get it into an HTML version of gmail and you're still going to have a bad time. This is like restoring ford model T back to roadworthiness when we've moved on to hover cars

the_syco

daniel2013 wrote: »

That was an idea, but a HDMI to VGA converter costs over 150 euro, so that is not going to work.

It'll cost €23 http://dx.com/p/hdmi-to-vga-video-converter-71816

=-=

You'll only be able to use the email. I cannot see internet working on it very well.

As for money, get one for under a tenner;
http://www.adverts.ie/for-sale/computers/desktops/492/price_1-50/sortby_price-asc

I'm sure you can get one that looks like your current PC, but that has a USB port, or a free PCI slot. FYI; you'll need a special driver for Windows 95 to see the USB device.

Overheal

It's a shame they don't have a wifi printer. An HP 5520 has its own email address. Your relative can email that your parents can read the printout and email back a handwritten letter they've scanned it

daniel2013

I have managed to convince them that dial up is no longer available, and that I have to install a network card otherwise the computer will stop working. As the computer has PCI slots, would any PCI network card work?

daniel2013

Overheal wrote: »

I'm usually pretty good about it by the numbers.

A 95 machine MIGHT have broken 100Mhz. A modern PC clocks 20-40 times faster. Also the transistor count on such an old machine had to be measured in the thousands, versus the billions seen today. Modern machines using the same power requirements cycle 40 times faster and compute thousands more calculations per cycle.

More importantly, software is designed to run on new machines not old machines. You get it online you get it into an HTML version of gmail and you're still going to have a bad time. This is like restoring ford model T back to roadworthiness when we've moved on to hover cars

They'll be using an old email client with eircom email which supports pop/smtp

the_syco

Looking at this from a different angle. RJ11 o RJ45 adapter? Can't do a straight connect, as I'm pretty sure the RJ11 pumps out a current. Also, although there are RJ11 to RJ45 cables, they're for telecoms, as the RJ11 modem pumps out analog signal, whilst the RJ45/ethernet connection is for digital signal. Also, not a HPNA.

Another avenue is to check if the router that the OP uses has a USB port on it? If so, would it be possible for to get a RJ11 to USB connector to connect that way?

AWESOME IDEA

If it's an old machine, it'll have a serial port. Thus, a serial to ethernet adapter will work, as both use digital signal?

Maybe something like; https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9476

the_syco

daniel2013 wrote: »

I have managed to convince them that dial up is no longer available, and that I have to install a network card otherwise the computer will stop working. As the computer has PCI slots, would any PCI network card work?

Not sure. You'll need to ensure that it has Windows 95 drivers, as most modern ones are plug and play, and Windows 95 may not have a driver for something that didn't exist at the time.

Lets us know your rough location, and someone here may have an old one in their cupboard.

daniel2013

It's fine, I've found one cheap on ebay. Compatible with Windows 95 and includes the driver floppy. Thanks everyone for all their help.

Torqay

And when you're done, clone the drive (I know, I know, removing the drive is a violation of the do-not-modify rule). If you connect this baby to a broadband router, infections are never far away and there is not a hope in hell, you can protect it with any modern anti-virus software.

daniel2013

Torqay wrote: »

And when you're done, clone the drive (I know, I know, removing the drive is a violation of the do-not-modify rule). If you connect this baby to a broadband router, infections are never far away and there is not a hope in hell, you can protect it with any modern anti-virus software.

I am going to connect an old broadband router with hardware firewall in between the two, blocking everything except ports 110 and 25, and set the email client to delete all emails not from their friend. That way while it is still possible, its less likely

PyeContinental

daniel2013 wrote: »

I have managed to convince them that dial up is no longer available, and that I have to install a network card otherwise the computer will stop working. As the computer has PCI slots, would any PCI network card work?

You referred to the machine as a computer in the beginning of the thread and then later revealed that it was a laptop - which does not have PCI slots.
It may have PCMCIA slots though, also referred to as PC Card slots.
If so, a 3Com PCMCIA wireless network card could be the solution you need to get this laptop working on your wireless network.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000A4F1E

daniel2013

PyeContinental wrote: »

You referred to the machine as a computer in the beginning of the thread and then later revealed that it was a laptop - which does not have PCI slots.
It may have PCMCIA slots though, also referred to as PC Card slots.
If so, a 3Com PCMCIA wireless network card could be the solution you need to get this laptop working on your wireless network.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000A4F1E

I'm sorry I'm so hard to understand. My own, new computer is a laptop. The old computer is a desktop.

T-K-O

This thread is an all time classic.

Overheal

daniel2013 wrote: »

The pc is from the early 90s, it runs Windows 95 and has no free expansion slots or USB ports for that matter.

daniel2013 wrote: »

As the computer has PCI slots, would any PCI network card work?

You're some special kind of wizard, I must say.

Gadgetman496

Overheal wrote: »

You're some special kind of wizard, I must say.

Wondered if anyone would spot that

So, if the computer suddenly grew expansion slots over night? does that constitute an upgrade? I thought that wasn't allowed........

the_syco

Overheal wrote: »

You're some special kind of wizard, I must say.

You noticed that as well?

PyeContinental

daniel2013 wrote: »

I'm sorry I'm so hard to understand. My own, new computer is a laptop. The old computer is a desktop.

To be fair to you, I must have not paid attention and read too quickly over the thread.

You shouldn't have tried to steer the conversation by claiming that the machine had no expansion slots when in fact it did, but you just didn't want the obvious solution to be offered of installing a PCI network card.

Your parents must have had a misunderstanding of what a "modification" is. They must think it is some kind of drastically invasive and irreversible procedure, otherwise they would not have been so irrationally against the most simple and obvious solution.

the_syco

PyeContinental wrote: »

Your parents must have had a misunderstanding of what a "modification" is. They must think it is some kind of drastically invasive and irreversible procedure, otherwise they would not have been so irrationally against the most simple and obvious solution.

I'm thinking maybe the OP may have modified the machine before? :pac:

demanufactured

His parents are probably old timers who think the pc has to be sent to a shop like ye was years ago to have anything done to it.
Older folk are generally scared ****less of anything to do with computers or the Internet.

TheChizler

If you're still looking at the dial up route there's a guide to letting a pc accept incoming connections here. http://pinoygeek.org/forum/index.php?topic=69.0

You mightn't need the external power source depending on the modems involved. In any case I would have thought it was 24 V needed?

Also as you won't have the 70 or so V needed for a ringer the laptop will have no way of being aware of an incoming call from the desktop, but I think you can tell it to pick up automatically every few seconds or something.

daniel2013

Overheal wrote: »

You're some special kind of wizard, I must say.

gadgetman496 wrote: »

Wondered if anyone would spot that

So, if the computer suddenly grew expansion slots over night? does that constitute an upgrade? I thought that wasn't allowed........

the_syco wrote: »

You noticed that as well?

PyeContinental wrote: »

To be fair to you, I must have not paid attention and read too quickly over the thread.

You shouldn't have tried to steer the conversation by claiming that the machine had no expansion slots when in fact it did, but you just didn't want the obvious solution to be offered of installing a PCI network card.

Your parents must have had a misunderstanding of what a "modification" is. They must think it is some kind of drastically invasive and irreversible procedure, otherwise they would not have been so irrationally against the most simple and obvious solution.

I didn't "try to steer the conversation". I looked at the back of the computer (in the dark desk), there was something in each of the expansion slots. When I convinced them to allow me to install one, I took out the computer and saw that one of them was also a dial up modem, obviously they either had one installed and didn't realise it and bought a serial one, or it stopped working.

Anyway I have managed to get it to work with an old network card I found at a market.

daniel2013

the_syco wrote: »

I'm thinking maybe the OP may have modified the machine before? :pac:

No, a local PC "repair man" (tried to) modify it many many years ago. He was going to upgrade the RAM from 32MB to 64MB, but somehow managed to (accidentally) break one of the SIMMs. and they thought he was an idiot and couldn't do it, so they sent it back to the shop to get it repaired, at a high cost. Wasn't me, honest.

demanufactured wrote: »

His parents are probably old timers who think the pc has to be sent to a shop like ye was years ago to have anything done to it.
Older folk are generally scared ****less of anything to do with computers or the Internet.

Pretty much that, except that in their case it was the shop that failed them. So they thought that if a so called professional couldnt do it, nobody could

PyeContinental

daniel2013 wrote: »

I didn't "try to steer the conversation". I looked at the back of the computer (in the dark desk), there was something in each of the expansion slots. When I convinced them to allow me to install one, I took out the computer and saw that one of them was also a dial up modem, obviously they either had one installed and didn't realise it and bought a serial one, or it stopped working.

Anyway I have managed to get it to work with an old network card I found at a market.

No free slots is different to not having any expansion slots.
However, you've solved the problem the simplest and cheapest way, so well done there.

I think what exasperated people though was that you did not state clearly what you were trying to achieve (and why). This prevented people from being able to offer alternative solutions, which you may have overlooked, to achieve the end result.

The other issue that frustrated good suggestions was that you did not supply all relevant information about the machine involved. If you had given the make and model of the system, people would not have had to guess the scenario or ask so many follow-up questions.

daniel2013

PyeContinental wrote: »

No free slots is different to not having any expansion slots.
However, you've solved the problem the simplest and cheapest way, so well done there.

I think what exasperated people though was that you did not state clearly what you were trying to achieve (and why). This prevented people from being able to offer alternative solutions, which you may have overlooked, to achieve the end result.

The other issue that frustrated good suggestions was that you did not supply all relevant information about the machine involved. If you had given the make and model of the system, people would not have had to guess the scenario or ask so many follow-up questions.

I just have trouble writing and trying to explain things. Its working now anyway which is the main thing.

Turbulent Bill

daniel2013 wrote: »

I just have trouble writing and trying to explain things. Its working now anyway which is the main thing.

Whatever about the method, congratulations on getting your parents back online. Social isolation and fear of technology are real problems for older people, so anything you can do to help (or sidetrack) these has to be a good thing.

Freddy Smelly

if your old pc has ISA slows i got an old 10mb network card lying in a drawer you can have

For a laugh I once did what you want by using a PBX to connect the two machines together with dialup modems. I used the Incoming Connections feature in XP to share out the connection to a Windows 98 machine. For a start, you're limited to 33.6k because that's the highest you'll ever get with two analogue modems. 56k modems rely on a digital backhaul which you can't reproduce with two analogue modems in series.

An ISA ethernet card might be the way to go here.