Dog Bite

boomerang

Puppy nipping in play is very different to a dog who bites in fright, pain or because it believes it is under attack.

are you serious

But the whole teaching a puppy not to bite process is so that the puppy knows when it grows up that biting is wrong is it not..?!?

Again back again to the OP's initial post..
He is this dogs owner, if his dog thinks he is going to attack him then there is already something seriously wrong there!
But he was not attacking him, he was not doing anything wrong or out of the ordinary to him.. So therefore the dog should not have bitten him.

boomerang

Nipping is a play behaviour in puppies. We teach them not to play with us in that way because unlike when puppy playfully scruffs a litter mate by the neck in mock-fight, it hurts us! So we teach puppies not to bite the same way we teach children to play nicely.

The tapir in Dublin Zoo that attacked a child last week - should she have known better? A dog is an animal too, and they will always have the capacity to bite when motivated to do so, be it by fear, pain or a sense of threat. They don't know better and it's pretty redundant to insist they should. It pains me to think that some day a bite might come from your dog and that for you it would be a deal-breaker.

Pretzill

are you serious wrote: »

But the whole teaching a puppy not to bite process is so that the puppy knows when it grows up that biting is wrong is it not..?!?

Again back again to the OP's initial post..
He is this dogs owner, if his dog thinks he is going to attack him then there is already something seriously wrong there!
But he was not attacking him, he was not doing anything wrong or out of the ordinary to him.. So therefore the dog should not have bitten him.

There's a large difference between a dog attack and a nip - btw dogs don't catch all the signals a nip for whatever reason, excitable, puppy, pain, behaviour can be helped, a dog attack often ends badly for both parties. I think the OP's problem can be overcome without rushing to the pts route, I hope so anyway. You know we have bad days too. One bite does not make a PTS. And yes I too was going to raise the Tapir but because dogs are domesticated it's not the best analogy to draw, that 'attack' was a zoo completely at fault, not a Tapir. Having to put your dog down because he nipped at you is a sign of complete impatience on the part of the owner - I have never not trusted a dog I owned , have mistrusted some I did'nt and have a scar to prove it, I was a child when a I was bitten but the dog belonged to.a friend and was highly excited when he bit me I implored them not to destroy the dog, their brother kicked him, I realised then where the instinct to bite came from. It is not black and white.

borderlinemeath

are you serious wrote: »

Both of my dogs have been sore/sick/poorley and have never bitten or growled at me or my partner.
A dog definitely should know better than to bite its owner.

How do you think a dog should know better? It doesn't have judgement that humans have, nor can it speak and tell you where it hurts. You might know that your dog is sick but what if he has an internal injury and you inadvertently touch him or lift him and hurt him by accident? His defence mechanism is to growl, whine or snap, and sometimes they just snap.

See now this is where a lot of people on this forum are now trying to contradict yourselves on the advice that has been given out on other threads.
For the most part people get dogs as puppies right? And people here say when the dog is a pup and play bites let out a yelp, say no, or other things along those lines so the dog realises that biting is wrong..... or so the dog will know better than to bite.. right???

Who's contradicting themselves?
Bite inhibition in puppies who are playing is completely different to a defensive bite. It's the difference between kids playing clap games with their hands and you defending yourself if you were in pain and somebody tried to lift you up. Along with being vocal, you would struggle and use your hands, no? Humans use their hands for a lot of tactile communication whereas dogs use their mouths.

But now you say when the dog bites its ok just because its sick or not well? Which is it.. It's either ok because the dog sick, or as the advice that is given out as, its not ok because its wrong for the dog to bite....

I said the dogs resource guarding behaviour was left to fester, along with a change in family structure I would be under the assumption the dog was more nervous, given that he growled at the doorway. This is not the fault of the dog, but the owner who never altered the behaviour when it first occured and now it's manifesting in a slightly different way.

And other occasions where the dog is ill, then it's highly likely that if the signs are missed that the dog could snap or nip. As I've said, it's not black and white, you can't predict exactly what a dog will do in an altered environment such as a new family structure or when they are ill. It's really not that simple.

are you serious

Ok final reply before i turn over and go to sleep..

So by the grneral train of thought here, if you change something in a dogs routine, like for instance the OP moving, if the dog gets sick, if the dog is having a bad day and you do something the dog doesn't like, or the dog doesn't want to be somewhere, what I'm getting from this thread is that people think it's ok for a dog to bite you or potentially a child???
Really..????

(I'm not even replying to the comparison with a zoo animal)

This kind if thread is the sort that has stopped me posting here, it's just insane to think that anyone would keep a dog that will bite for no other good reason than you moved house and it's now not happy(according to the posters here)

Just to add I know of nobody who's dog/dogs that go to other houses/kennels/new home that have bitten someone. I have friends who breed of a handfull of different breeds of dogs and never once have I heard of anything like this either.

OP if I were you, if your dog is not sick in some shape or form, does not have an injury of any sort then I would only be making one choice.
(It may come across that I make it sound like an easy choice I'm aware that it is not) best of luck.

boomerang

You said, in essence, that you would euthanise your dog if it bit you if it was sick or upset, or indeed if it bit you for no reason that you could discern. Because it shouldn't.

That's what I take issue with. And the reference to the tapir is valid, because regardless of whether an animal is wild or domesticated, it retains the instinct to defend itself, regardless of whether we think that defensiveness is warranted! Dogs are no different than any other animal in that they do not have our ability to rationalise or to moralise. If a dog is startled, threatened, worried, defending something it values, or in pain, it may bite. That is not to say that the dog is now a liability that will bite again and again, for no reason - and to bring it on a one-way trip to the vet with no room for discussion (or the input of a professional behaviourist) is a travesty - a complete failure of ownership.

cocker5

are you serious...

while i agree in principle with no dog should ever bite... IMO even the nicest / most submissive dog will bite if provked enough... wherher through fear, pain or something else.... if you push a dog to its limit (applies to humans too) they will snap and thier only way of communication if through their mouth (snout) either by growling, barking or snapping, its their ONLY form of communication.

Say my cocker (who's 8.5 and has never so much as growled in his life) at the moment he has the onset of arthurites, he is on a special oil to help him and possibly anti imflamitories in the near future (under vet supervision)... now on and off he is limping etc, he eblows are sore and one hind leg, now say by accident, i stood on his paw, albeit by mistake, do you think he wouldnt bite me? Even thoigh he has NEVER bitten in his life....

of course he would now im not talking savage me and draw blood but I sure as hell he would make a go at my foot... the "thing" that caused him pain, its a natural action, its not premeditated, its a reaction....

My only other point is most dogs dont resort to biting as a first defence... they usually firstly try and get away from the situation where they are not happy, then the growl, possibily snap (but not drawing blood).... and finally they will bite as a last resort...

Maybe just maybe if us humans paid more attention to the "warning" signs we could avoid many dog bites and many dogs could be spared... This includes parents teaching their children how to interact with animals....

So to sum up yes a dog should not bite in principle... but reality is a different story altogether....

;)

borderlinemeath

are you serious wrote: »

Ok final reply before i turn over and go to sleep..

So by the grneral train of thought here, if you change something in a dogs routine, like for instance the OP moving, if the dog gets sick, if the dog is having a bad day and you do something the dog doesn't like, or the dog doesn't want to be somewhere, what I'm getting from this thread is that people think it's ok for a dog to bite you or potentially a child???
Really..????

Nobody said it's ok. No situation is set in stone and every dog will react differently to different situations, pain, new surroundings, new family members and it's up to the owner to be able to read the dogs body language and interpret it accordingly.

IMO, what's not ok is when you say that if your dog bites, for whatever reason, that he should know better (how?) and there's no second chance, he's gone. I just can't fathom being that entrenched in one train of thought.

Here's a human story. About 15 years ago I was on holidays in the canaries with friends. I dozed off on the couch with the door open and woke up to find a thief standing over me trying to take my bag which was beside me. My natural reaction kicked in and I lashed out, I kicked the guy and chased him out of the apartment, I kept walloping him with my fists, on his head, or his back while he was running out the door. All 5'5 of me! Adrenaline had kicked in and I was defending myself in a violent way. It all happened in a matter of seconds and afterwards I literally lost control of my legs and half collapsed on the ground. The point? When you're faced with circumstances that threaten you, you act out of character. Was I charged with gbh? No, yet I acted in a violent manner which by most standards was deemed unacceptable. Looking at it from an objective point of view I was battering the shiite out of a pickpocket, who hadn't actually stolen anything, he was just trying to.

(I'm not even replying to the comparison with a zoo animal)

This kind if thread is the sort that has stopped me posting here, it's just insane to think that anyone would keep a dog that will bite for no other good reason than you moved house and it's now not happy(according to the posters here)

As an experienced owner, you would know that dogs thrive on routine, change the routine and there's an adjustment period. With a nervous dog, they may need more reassurance and obviously a lot of observation when adjusting to a new routine.

Just to add I know of nobody who's dog/dogs that go to other houses/kennels/new home that have bitten someone. I have friends who breed of a handfull of different breeds of dogs and never once have I heard of anything like this either.

That's great, you've obviously met some very well adjusted and socialised dogs, but just because you've never encountered any overly nervous or dogs with behaviour problems doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I've met a good few dogs who have acted out of character when thrust into a situation that they're unsure of. I've seen dogs get dog aggressive, hormonal, nervous in new situations...it happens.

OP if I were you, if your dog is not sick in some shape or form, does not have an injury of any sort then I would only be making one choice.
(It may come across that I make it sound like an easy choice I'm aware that it is not) best of luck.

Seriously? The OP said from the get go that the dog was a resource guarder! That is a behaviour problem, easily dealt with through training but your answer is to get rid? I sincerely hope your dogs never put you in a similar situation, seemingly they'll be made pay for your inflexible attitude.