Do you correct people when they are breaking the rules.

DuckSlice

I played in my clubs captains day recently, it's one if few comps that have a draw in my club so wasn't playing with people I know. One of the fourball I was in( a past captain) was using a GPS app on his mobile. I felt like pulling him on it but didn't as didn't want him being off with me for the rest of the round and he seemed like someone that would hold a grudge. He also pulled growth from behind his ball once which I couldn't believe being last years captain.

So my question is how many people pull people when they break the rules? I don't mean there regular playing partners because I have no problem telling them, but people you wouldn't really know. If I was playing him in a match I would have done it straight away tho.

Ben1977

etxp wrote: »

I played in my clubs captains day recently, it's one if few comps that have a draw in my club so wasn't playing with people I know. One of the fourball I was in( a past captain) was using a GPS app on his mobile. I felt like pulling him on it but didn't as didn't want him being off with me for the rest of the round and he seemed like someone that would hold a grudge. He also pulled growth from behind his ball once which I couldn't believe being last years captain.

So my question is how many people pull people when they break the rules? I don't mean there regular playing partners because I have no problem telling them, but people you wouldn't really know. If I was playing him in a match I would have done it straight away tho.

That's a hard one, I would just say something like, not sure you can do that. I not 100% so maybe we should check when we get in.
Generally I'd be spot on but just don't make a big deal about it at the time.

It's hard to judge what people's reactions will be but I guess people don't know all the rules and will be ok with you bringing it to their attention

D Hayes

What's the problem with using a GPS app, out of interest?

slave1

You can't use a GPS app on a phone as the phone will have the capability of other measuring devices like wind etc and hence is not allowed.

realgolfgeek

I have zero issue with pointing out they're breaking the rules.
You can be sure if you were to do it, someone would let you know.

Especially for someone rooting up crap behind the ball, a past captain at that, you should have said something (imo)

Ben1977

buysellswap wrote: »

What's the problem with using a GPS app, out of interest?

It not the app that's the problem. The phone could tell us wind direction and slope which isn't allow in comps.

D Hayes

slave1 wrote: »

You can't use a GPS app on a phone as the phone will have the capability of other measuring devices like wind etc and hence is not allowed.

I've been using golfshot on my phone for comps...is that not allowed so? Apologies for going off topic, OP.

Ben1977

buysellswap wrote: »

I've been using golfshot on my phone for comps...is that not allowed so? Apologies for going off topic, OP.

Phones are not allow in comps.

DuckSlice

realgolfgeek wrote: »

I have zero issue with pointing out they're breaking the rules.
You can be sure if you were to do it, someone would let you know.

Especially for someone rooting up crap behind the ball, a past captain at that, you should have said something (imo)

I wish I did tbh. Specially as he featured in the prizes.

The rules on GPS have been done before. Prefer this thread to stay on topic!

Ben1977

etxp wrote: »

I wish I did tbh. Specially as he featured in the prizes.

The rules on GPS have been done before. Prefer this thread to stay on topic!

Should have reported it to the committee after the round and let them deal within. We need to govern ourselfs and our playing partners.

Roger_007

Ben1977 wrote: »

Phones are not allow in comps.

Is that a local rule or is it a rule of golf, (and if so, which rule)?
I just wondered because some clubs don't ban them and some do.

Ben1977

Roger_007 wrote: »

Is that a local rule or is it a rule of golf, (and if so, which rule)?
I just wondered because some clubs don't ban them and some do.

All I know is I can't use them in club comp. and I can't use them in GUI comps.

Roger_007

Ben1977 wrote: »

All I know is I can't use them in club comp. and I can't use them in GUI comps.

In golf you can't just invent a rule. I see golfers using these apps all the time. Either it's against the rules or it is not. Also check this out:-

".....The R&A’s Official Rules App for Windows Phone 7 offers you the complete package, covering every issue that can arise in a round of golf. From on-course behaviour, through a summary of the fundamental Rules, to the complete Rules of Golf (2012 – 2015), you’ll soon find the answer you’re looking for. The Quick Guide to the Rules will make sure that you know what to do if you find yourself in any of the most frequently-occurring Rules scenarios...."
http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/Features/2010/July/Rules%20App.aspx

This app has obviously been designed for use on the course. It is apparently been approved by the R&A. What is going on?

D Hayes

In that case OP, I can answer your question from your playing partner's perspective. I have played 2 comps in away courses this year, with a total of 4 random playing partners.

In both cases, I (ignorantly) used golfshot app on my phone. Not one of the four pulled me up on it. I wish they did, looking back. But it goes to show that even though guys on here may be adamant that they'd pull someone up on it, in reality, the majority of players probably wouldn't with random playing partners.

Howjoe1

it can be difficult.

I've played in club competitions where someone would say they had a 5. If I knew it was incorrect, I'd bring it up and say something along the lines "are you sure it wasn't a 6?" I believe this happens out of genuine error most times.

But I remember going out in then 2nd round of the captain's prize being drawn with the leaders and a bloke I played with hit many a wayward shot into long rough. He would pick a ball up from the rough and waved it at me on the fairway as being his and preceded to keep placing it with a lie that allowed him reach around the green with his second shot. I came to the conclusion, that this sort of thing was probably widespread and rarely bother with club comps anymore.

Corkblowin

Its not as black and white against using a phone as it was.

You are in certain cases allowed use your mobile as a GPS for golf once the app doesn't give other information such as wind direction or temperature. The phone can be capable of getting this information, but once you don't access it you're fine. I actually don't use the phone myself, but the Munster Branch referee gave me the flowchart below before this years Junior Cup matches - it explains it very well

Roger_007

Thanks for that Corkblowin. That explains the situation to a 'tee'

Corkblowin

On topic, I've mentioned before I've been threatened with violence for telling a guy he was taking a drop in the wrong place - this particular 'golfer' walked a hundred yards alongside a lake to drop level with where the ball splashed rather than where it crossed the hazard.

I pretty much always point it out, but try to do it in a manner that doesn't accuse them of trying to cheat....eg.....I thought the rule when that happens was x, y and z rather than what you're doing. Most people are happy to learn the actual procedure.

As for the tulip earlier who kept picking the ball up, I'd have pointed out it was a 2 shot penalty for moving a ball at rest the first time he did it - should prevent any further instances for the rest of the round!

Howjoe1

[Q

As for the tulip earlier who kept picking the ball up, I'd have pointed out it was a 2 shot penalty for moving a ball at rest the first time he did it - should prevent any further instances for the rest of the round![/QUOTE]


He was lifting it to identify it:rolleyes: and I'd actually suspect given the height of the rough that it wasn't always his actual ball he was finding everytime.

stockdam

Yes I would mention it......in fact it is your "duty" to do so as it is only fair on everybody else playing in the competition.

I would suggest it as mentioned above...."I think you've just broken a rule and so you should penalise yourself. We can check when we get into the clubhouse if you like".

PARlance

stockdam wrote: »

Yes I would mention it......in fact it is your "duty" to do so as it is only fair on everybody else playing in the competition.

I would suggest it as mentioned above...."I think you've just broken a rule and so you should penalise yourself. We can check when we get into the clubhouse if you like".

I was doubting that I'd have the bottle to do something but that's great advice... A good way to put it. It makes them have to deny doing something wrong rather than coming out with a "you've just cheated"

It'd still take some balls but its good to have that in mind if it ever arises.

I've mentionned the phone thing to quite a few, just as a friendly warning that others might pull them up on it. Never had any problem with a bad response. A lot of people just haven't got a clue about that rule.

Roger_007

ajcurry123 wrote: »

...............I've mentionned the phone thing to quite a few, just as a friendly warning that others might pull them up on it. Never had any problem with a bad response. A lot of people just haven't got a clue about that rule.

Including your goodself it seems, did you not read Corkblowin's post on the matter?

PARlance

Roger_007 wrote: »

Including your goodself it seems, did you not read Corkblowin's post on the matter?

Well done, you're making a fair few incorrect assumptions in one thread.

I generally find that I can tell the difference between a Nokia 3210 and an iPhone 4... I don't say anything to the lad playing snake on his between holes

I was aware of this rule well before the thread, as the OP states, it's been discussed at length

DuckSlice

Corkblowin wrote: »

Its not as black and white against using a phone as it was.

You are in certain cases allowed use your mobile as a GPS for golf once the app doesn't give other information such as wind direction or temperature. The phone can be capable of getting this information, but once you don't access it you're fine. I actually don't use the phone myself, but the Munster Branch referee gave me the flowchart below before this years Junior Cup matches - it explains it very well

I know I wanted this to stay on topic but this is completely wrong.

This is the rule from the R&A website.

3. Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones, PDAs, etc (i.e. devices that are primarily communication devices, but which may have other potential uses) may be used as follows:

The device may be used for any non-golfing purpose (e.g. as a communication tool to phone, text or email), subject to any club / course regulations and the Rules on accessing advice-related matters – see Decision 14-3/16.
When the Local Rule is in effect, a distance-measuring application may be used, provided the specific application is restricted to “distance only” and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even if these other features are not being used. As above, the Rules on advice-related communications (including the use of the internet) still apply.

Now can we forget about the phones.

SnowDrifts

Corkblowin wrote: »

Its not as black and white against using a phone as it was.

You are in certain cases allowed use your mobile as a GPS for golf once the app doesn't give other information such as wind direction or temperature. The phone can be capable of getting this information, but once you don't access it you're fine. I actually don't use the phone myself, but the Munster Branch referee gave me the flowchart below before this years Junior Cup matches - it explains it very well

That flowchart could be drafted better. Just to point out you are slightly wrong.... it's not whether you access the other information. It's if you have to use the internet to access it. The following is the most important phrase:

"Is this other information or measurement tool only accessible via an internet browser or shortcut to the internet."

Therefore, if your phone has a compass, it is illegal. Most phones now have a compass so draw your own conclusions on that.

Roger_007

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Well done, you're making a fair few incorrect assumptions in one thread.

I generally find that I can tell the difference between a Nokia 3210 and an iPhone 4... I don't say anything to the lad playing snake on his between holes

I was aware of this rule well before the thread, as the OP states, it's been discussed at length

I wasn't aware that I was making any assumptions, much less 'a fair few'.
I am just trying to find out if it is OK for some clubs to have a blanket ban on mobile phones while playing in comps while at the same time the R&A are flogging their own app. My club has a blanket ban. There is a notice in the clubhouse which states:- 'Use of a mobile phone is not permitted during club competitions except to make emergency calls'.
Plenty of players just ignore the rule and nobody has been penalised yet.
In relation to this topic, all I want to know is if I see someone using a phone app, do I pull them up for breaking the rules?

Ben1977

Roger_007 wrote: »

I wasn't aware that I was making any assumptions, much less 'a fair few'.
I am just trying to find out if it is OK for some clubs to have a blanket ban on mobile phones while playing in comps while at the same time the R&A are flogging their own app. My club has a blanket ban. There is a notice in the clubhouse which states:- 'Use of a mobile phone is not permitted during club competitions except to make emergency calls'.
Plenty of players just ignore the rule and nobody has been penalised yet.
In relation to this topic, all I want to know is if I see someone using a phone app, do I pull them up for breaking the rules?

Yes if its stated by your club

mike12

Howjoe1 wrote: »

[Q

As for the tulip earlier who kept picking the ball up, I'd have pointed out it was a 2 shot penalty for moving a ball at rest the first time he did it - should prevent any further instances for the rest of the round!

He was lifting it to identify it:rolleyes: and I'd actually suspect given the height of the rough that it wasn't always his actual ball he was finding everytime.[/QUOTE]

You can't lift the ball to identify it without telling your playing partner before and marking the ball before u do it.

PARlance

Roger_007 wrote: »

I wasn't aware that I was making any assumptions, much less 'a fair few'.
I am just trying to find out if it is OK for some clubs to have a blanket ban on mobile phones while playing in comps while at the same time the R&A are flogging their own app. My club has a blanket ban. There is a notice in the clubhouse which states:- 'Use of a mobile phone is not permitted during club competitions except to make emergency calls'.
Plenty of players just ignore the rule and nobody has been penalised yet.
In relation to this topic, all I want to know is if I see someone using a phone app, do I pull them up for breaking the rules?

You've assumed
- some clubs/orgs are inventing rules
-that the R&A have designed an app for use "on course" (they have an app, it doesn't mean that just because it is the R&A app, that it can be used on course)
-that I wasn't aware of the rule, I am.

I wasn't always aware of it, it confused me for a bit.
Maybe search the forum for info on it or start a new thread.

Apologies OP

ForeRight

Maybe a little off topic too but what's the most blatant rule infringement you have witnessed on the course?

John Divney

ForeRight wrote: »

Maybe a little off topic too but what's the most blatant rule infringement you have witnessed on the course?

I'd say the most frequent is improving lie in some way.

Roger_007

ajcurry123 wrote: »

You've assumed
- some clubs/orgs are inventing rules
-that the R&A have designed an app for use "on course" (they have an app, it doesn't mean that just because it is the R&A app, that it can be used on course)
-that I wasn't aware of the rule, I am.

I wasn't always aware of it, it confused me for a bit.
Maybe search the forum for info on it or start a new thread.

Apologies OP

I don't want to prolong this part of the discussion but I would refer you to the following:-

“The Rules App is a fantastic reference tool that allows you to find any Rules information you might require, on the move,” said David Rickman, The R&A’s Director of Rules and Equipment Standards. “It is useful for any golfer or official from those who are just starting to play, to those officiating at higher levels of golf. The Quick Guide to the Rules explains how a player should proceed in a number of frequently occurring Rules scenarios."

OK, so this app is about the rules of golf but clearly designed to be used on the course via a smart phone.

PARlance

Roger_007 wrote: »

I don't want to prolong this part of the discussion but I would refer you to the following:-

“The Rules App is a fantastic reference tool that allows you to find any Rules information you might require, on the move,” said David Rickman, The R&A’s Director of Rules and Equipment Standards. “It is useful for any golfer or official from those who are just starting to play, to those officiating at higher levels of golf. The Quick Guide to the Rules explains how a player should proceed in a number of frequently occurring Rules scenarios."

OK, so this app is about the rules of golf but clearly designed to be used on the course via a smart phone.

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Start

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^they are lines

Roger_007

ajcurry123 wrote: »

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Start

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^they are lines

:eek:

SnowDrifts

ForeRight wrote: »

Maybe a little off topic too but what's the most blatant rule infringement you have witnessed on the course?

Not knowing how to take a drop. Week in week out, I will see a player drop a ball and proceed to pick it up again when it rolls slightly outside 1 club length from where it first landed on the ground. If anyone is in doubt, please know that when your ball is dropped, it can roll up to 2 club lengths not nearer the hole from where it first strikes the ground.

And yes, that means if you are taking an unplayable or getting relief from a lateral hazard, it is possible that the ball can be up to 4 club lengths from point of relief provided it first hit the ground inside your allotted 2 club length relief distance.

So on topic, I try to inform players before they pick it up that the ball is, in fact, actually in play.

GreeBo

ForeRight wrote: »

Maybe a little off topic too but what's the most blatant rule infringement you have witnessed on the course?

totally off topic, start your own thread thanks.

Senna

mike12 wrote: »

You can't lift the ball to identify it without telling your playing partner before and marking the ball before u do it.

I always though you had to ask your playing partner to lift (if needed) and identify your ball, didn't think you could do it yourself, marked or not.

bridestream

I have an iPhone with a pre installed compass.
I also have the Golfshot app that I am unable to use in competition due to the phone having a compass that I cannot get rid of.

Recently I asked a fellow competitor if his Samsung had a compass and he said NO. That was the end of discussion but I believe most, if not all, smart phones have a pre installed compass. Am I right?


If I want to judge wind direction, throwing a bit of grass up in the air is best.

Until the R&A accept the facts of modern technology and allow use of DMD apps on phones - even those with a compass - we are going to have unnecessary hassle and bad feeling between competitors. I play golf for relaxation and I do not want any 'built in' hassle on the course!!!

Roger_007

bridestream wrote: »

I have an iPhone with a pre installed compass.
I also have the Golfshot app that I am unable to use in competition due to the phone having a compass that I cannot get rid of.

Recently I asked a fellow competitor if his Samsung had a compass and he said NO. That was the end of discussion but I believe most, if not all, smart phones have a pre installed compass. Am I right?


If I want to judge wind direction, throwing a bit of grass up in the air is best.

Until the R&A accept the facts of modern technology and allow use of DMD apps on phones - even those with a compass - we are going to have unnecessary hassle and bad feeling between competitors. I play golf for relaxation and I do not want any 'built in' hassle on the course!!!

I have opened a new thread on this topic:- 'Virtual caddy v real caddy'.
It might be better to discuss this subject on that thread. (Some posters are very picky about going off-topic and we wouldn't want to upset them).

Corkblowin

etxp wrote: »

.......... but this is completely wrong.

My first line.....its not black & white!!

Most courses I've played this year including my home course & the venue for the Cork Junior Cup (I can't say all courses as, since I don't use a phone, I don't check) would allow a conforming phone under a local rule. As such, I would be very slow to accuse a guy using one of breaking a rule.

stooge

bridestream wrote: »

Until the R&A accept the facts of modern technology and allow use of DMD apps on phones - even those with a compass - we are going to have unnecessary hassle and bad feeling between competitors. I play golf for relaxation and I do not want any 'built in' hassle on the course!!!

would it not be better to ban all electronic devices whether they measure distance, wind speed, direction or anything else for that matter? Courses have distance markers and most have trees to see the wind speed and direction. Use instinct and natural means rather than gadgets..

what2do

I have corrected someone - who responded with "but I wouldn't get a point for that":rolleyes:

To which my reply was "thats not the point"

So thats the mentality in place... and I was so annoyed I played really badly for the remaining holes!

realgolfgeek

etxp wrote: »

I wish I did tbh. Specially as he featured in the prizes.

The rules on GPS have been done before. Prefer this thread to stay on topic!

It's not too late to change this. I would let the player/committee know and the prizes/results will change. It's only fair on the rest of the players who may have just missed out on a prize while not breaking any rules.

DuckSlice

Corkblowin wrote: »

My first line.....its not black & white!!

Most courses I've played this year including my home course & the venue for the Cork Junior Cup (I can't say all courses as, since I don't use a phone, I don't check) would allow a conforming phone under a local rule. As such, I would be very slow to accuse a guy using one of breaking a rule.

If a smart phone has a weather app, access to the Internet to get weather, even if you dont use it,then it can not be used. It deosnt matter if there is a local rule. As far as i know, You can't have a local rule disregarding a rule of golf.( open to correction)

But anyway I can see why you would be cautious.

DuckSlice

realgolfgeek wrote: »

It's not too late to change this. I would let the player/committee know and the prizes/results will change. It's only fair on the rest of the players who may have just missed out on a prize while not breaking any rules.

It's nearly a month ago now tho!

realgolfgeek

etxp wrote: »

It's nearly a month ago now tho!

ah, fair enough.
in that case I would just mention it to the player in passing.
Being a past captain, I'm sure he would do something about it himself, maybe.

PARlance

etxp wrote: »

As far as i know, You can't have a local rule disregarding a rule of golf.( open to correction)

I think that's more or less the idea of a local rule... it's something specific to a course that goes against the main rules.
(I'm open to correct too to but I think that's pretty much the jist of a local rule)

An example
Mulranny local rule were you can replay your shot when it hits the fence that protect the greens... This goes against the main rules and general ethos of "playing it as it lies" in golf.

spacecoyote

Yeah, similar to conservation areas. In lucan, you play as it lies as far as I remember, but in grange castle you must take relief

BraveDonut

Rather than pulling people up for breaking rules, I think that what happens more is that someone says "Do I get a free drop here?" and their playing partner says "sure, why not?" so that there is no confrontation.

I was pulled up by a playing partner one time for tamping down an old pitch mark in my line without getting agreement that it was indeed a pitch mark.
I was embarrassed by my own stupidity but readily accepted the penalty - I was happy that I learned something and now I won't do that again!

Also if you ask someone what they scored on a hole and you know or suspect that what they say is incorrect, a lot of the time people say "sure he won't be in the prizes anyway!" and let it go. This creates habits in the infringers and you know that some day they will be in the prizes using their 'habit"!

ronjo

etxp wrote: »

He also pulled growth from behind his ball once which I couldn't believe being last years captain.

Whatever about the phone app argument I think this is far more shocking.

You certainly should have pulled him up on that.

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I think that's more or less the idea of a local rule... it's something specific to a course that goes against the main rules.
(I'm open to correct too to but I think that's pretty much the jist of a local rule)

An example
Mulranny local rule were you can replay your shot when it hits the fence that protect the greens... This goes against the main rules and general ethos of "playing it as it lies" in golf.

A local rule cannot contravene a rule of golf.
Play as it lies is the default rule, the one you use when no other rule is applicable.
In this case the fence has effectively been deemed an outside agency (we have the same for an electric wire that crosses one hole, in our case you *must* replay the shot, even if your ball was going OB anyway)


A lot of the confusion about phones and local rules is that they are about multiple different rules.
1) using a phone on the course
2) using a dmd

The RANDA rule on phones is about using them for DMDs or communications, but only if there is a local rule in place allowing DMDs.

If the local rule disallows phones then using a phone as a DMD is a moot point.

A course can allow phones but not DMDs or equally allow DMDs but not phones.