...the compelling case for Drivers Ed...

galwaytt

....very hard to write this and not appear condescending, but at the same time, the fact of the matter is, most people who driver are not familiar enough with their cars for even basic or emergency situations.

Recently I wrote about this: Volvo XC90 and the point in that was the hullah involved in that was typical of the gap in people knowledge about, say, changing a wheel. Now in that case, the wheel failure was both extraordinary and catastrophic, and the people involved did have the nous to know what needs doing vis-à-vis changing a wheel etc.

But it's not always so. I changed another wheel for a lady in a car park a short while ago as well. No biggy.

Yesterday then I got a variation on a theme.........driving on M6 approaching Galway, I was behind an 08 Passat. I thought an odd smell off it in the distance - some hundreds of metres - and the SO thought it diesel ? Didn't smell like diesel, although it plumed behind the car like so many with bad or leaky injectors. No, this was different. Burning. And got worse. And then much worse.

As I was tipping along at 100kph on cruise, I thought something odd here and accelerated up and overtook her, at which point smoke was billowing out from behind as well as from the r.h. wheel arch - and there was the culprit - a tyre absolutely flailing about the place, literally - it was about to depart from the rim.

I blew the horn, pointed, the usual, and she and we, pulled in. Actually, she pulled in ON the yellow line which was bloody dangerous, and I got her to move into the Armco.

So. Looked at the wheel - smoke still pouring off it. Lady was quite surprised, as she thought the smoke was from 'the engine' and was completely ignorant of the drama in the r.h. wheel arch. So hot was the (alloy) rim, I couldn't touch it, and the tyre had completely lost it's shape/structure. It was like an elastic band. We pulled the car in a bit more and it left MOLTEN rubber on the ground - the tyre was seconds from igniting - and that my friends will be a claim for writing it off - if the tyre went on fire, there'd be no putting it out on your own at the side of the road, and the car would be toast. I have seen it before (Civic), and it does happen.

Pic of wheel, with molten rubber just off the car, piping hot.......


She had presumed of the tyre went like that the car would 'go out of control'. Only in Hollywood I told her............ :P

So, got to the boot, jack, wheel brace, locking nut thingy all present in their place (well, it's a very new car tbh...), and set about taking off the wheel, which was straightforward enough. She had a Hi-Vis in the boot so I put that on, as working with your back to the inside lane of the M6 is not the safest place in the world.

Watching me she said 'I must learn how to do that'....which is what prompted this thread in the first place - and indeed we all should. Don't wait for a puncture. Go out and practice. If nothing else, you'll learn how to use a jack in comfort, if the studs/nuts are v.v.tight, etc........and you won't put them on quite so tight next time........... You'll also learn where all the bits you need to do the job are, at your own pace.

Anyway, back to the Tale.............

I was dying to find out what caused this............well, see pics for yourselves..........


Wear and Tear to the point of, well..........way, way past legality. Dare I say it, stupidity even.

Which got me to - further - thinking..........er, if this one is this bad - down PAST the wire, through the canvas, then..........what's the other front one like...... ?

Ooooer......... :eek:



So I told her you need two tyres now, and 'lively, like' :P . As my family had set off and left me there, she ran me into town on her way to work, heading for Advance to get two tyres. I explained her tracking would need to be done too.

Interestingly, this was a lovely, shiney, clean B6 Passat 1.9. It was taxed (habit I have of checking :pac: ), insured, and lo & behold - wearing a 2014 NCT disc. People seem to think that little thing on the windscreen if a free pass to avoid the issue of physics, and that it protects them from the Evil Garage Fairies........ :rolleyes:

She was quite shaken, really, so maybe this might be a wake-up call. As she pulled away I had to break the news to her that her DMF was AWOL as well, to which she replied 'how did you know that ?', and then then she told me she had had it done recently in a hurry with a............secondhand one. Sigh. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You'll be doing it again, so I tell her........

Then she tells me she as thinking of trading up to something newer, to be cheaper to run..............like a, er, Golf. Eh ? She wanted to save on diesel costs........and when asked how much does the Passat do mpg-wise she ...had no idea. I scrolled the menu on the stalk and it was telling me it averaged 45mpg....which she didn't know you could do btw....and so, the conversation turned to how you'd have to spend €26k less your Passat (10k is what she had on it...) to save.........how much ?

Maybe that kind of math should be part of any Drivers Ed curriculum too...

Kenny Logins

Wow. That is quite worrying.

keithclancy

galwaytt wrote: »

Then she tells me she as thinking of trading up to something newer, to be cheaper to run..............like a, er, Golf. Eh ? She wanted to save on diesel costs........and when asked how much does the Passat do mpg-wise she ...had no idea. I scrolled the menu on the stalk and it was telling me it averaged 45mpg....which she didn't know you could do btw....and so, the conversation turned to how you'd have to spend €26k less your Passat (10k is what she had on it...) to save.........how much ?

Maybe that kind of math should be part of any Drivers Ed curriculum too...

She wasn't wrong anyway, the XC90s cost a fortune to keep on the road according to a few lads in work.

Tie rod ends were a recall that can cause inside tyre wear

How did you diagnose DMF failure by just listening to it btw ?

Driving with the back wheel like that though .. :eek::eek::eek:

ba_barabus

I get slagged by my mates for checking the car over once a week. Tyres, fluid levels and lights and just a general look round.

They can't for the life of them understand the concept of preventative maintenance. As its an old 2002 car they figure you're better off just driving it on till it beeaks as its worth nothing anyway.

listermint

keithclancy wrote: »

She wasn't wrong anyway, the XC90s cost a fortune to keep on the road according to a few lads in work.

Tie rod ends were a recall that can cause inside tyre wear

How did you diagnose DMF failure by just listening to it btw ?

Driving with the back wheel like that though .. :eek::eek::eek:

She had a passat....

ba_barabus

Btw I'm having a tyre changed and this just rolled in

wildefalcon

ba_barabus wrote: »

Btw I'm having a tyre changed and this just rolled in

Good few miles left in that - sure the stone would stop it wearing any further!

spurious

ba_barabus wrote: »

Btw I'm having a tyre changed and this just rolled in

Good while left in that yet.:D

I'm a woman and while I wouldn't be able to strip an engine or do anything major really, I can change a wheel, add oil, water, change bulbs etc..
I was in a friend's car a few months ago and smoke was coming from the bonnet. 'That's not normal' I said, 'you should get it checked'. 'Ah I will at the NCT' she said.

I despair.

galwaytt

keithclancy wrote: »

She wasn't wrong anyway, the XC90s cost a fortune to keep on the road according to a few lads in work.

Tie rod ends were a recall that can cause inside tyre wear

How did you diagnose DMF failure by just listening to it btw ?

Driving with the back wheel like that though .. :eek::eek::eek:

methinks you are imbibing at this early hour :pac:. Yesterdays event and pics was of a Passat front wheel...... :P :P

The Backwards Man

In fairness, changing a VAG wheel in the dark, cold pishing rain is one of the dirtiest jobs going.

keithclancy

galwaytt wrote: »

methinks you are imbibing at this early hour :pac:. Yesterdays event and pics was of a Passat front wheel...... :P :P

galwaytt

The Backwards Man wrote: »

In fairness, changing a VAG wheel in the dark, cold pishing rain is one of the dirtiest jobs going.

...the XC90 would infinitely worse. That spare wheel under the car, on the outside is a wollox. Wouldn't fancy lying down on a wet road at night go get it out....

Ronnie Beck

I jump started a lads passat up in sligo there on sunday. While waiting for the battery to charge up a bit I checked his oil. Barely on the stick and the oil looked as old as the hills. I had to explain the markings on it to him and that his oil was nowhere near either.. Same as above, a lovely clean B6 on the outside.

Car wouldn't start on a jump but it started with a push once the battery had been charged enough to release the electric brake - stupid invention. If he's reading this I have your battery cover :P

dgt

I see it all too often, serviced but never maintained. Sickening thats how little people think of a vital means of getting about

bazz26

One of the reasons why I tend to buy used UK cars with verified service histories these days. Generally the Irish never looked after their cars and even more so now in these testing times.

While I agree that Driver Education on basic car checks and maintenance are necessary as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink it.

pred racer

Drivers ed starts at home, I have 3 kids, all of them will have proved to my satifaction that they can look after their car/tyres etc before they are let on the road.
I also highlite ignorant parking and let them know whats going to happen if I see them parking like that!

On the other hand ive also taught them to give gosafe vans the fingers:pac:

biko

galwaytt wrote: »

driving on M6 approaching Galway, I was behind an 08 Passat. I thought an odd smell off it in the distance - some hundreds of metres - and the SO thought it diesel ? Didn't smell like diesel, although it plumed behind the car like so many with bad or leaky injectors. No, this was different. Burning. And got worse. And then much worse.

Funny you should post this. The same happened to me too on the M6, but leaving Galway.
A white small van was ahead of me and a few more cars and I could smell rubber. Suddenly the van jerked and started to roll in to the side of the road.
It looked like the rear passenger wheel blew out.
A couple other cars stopped so I just went on but it must have been scary for the driver. We were all doing just over 100 kmph and I'd hate to think what would have happened if it was the driver's front tyre that blew out instead.

wildefalcon

So, why is there this difference in the care of cars?


What is different between Ireland and the UK? Is it the history of car ownership in the UK that means there's a culture of car care?

Or is it the cost of it here?

I mean the Irish are no more ignorant, or intelligent than the Scots, Welsh or English? The cultures are reasonably similar, so why this big difference?

Is the same neglect apparent in the northern counties of Ireland?

Was the annual MOT the reason why servicing happened every year?

ednwireland

wildefalcon wrote: »

Was the annual MOT the reason why servicing happened every year?

brought in in 1960 thats a lot of years to introduce a culture change

btw
best thing i ever bought was a 12v powered jack and impact wrench

Victor Meldrew

wildefalcon wrote: »

So, why is there this difference in the care of cars?
What is different between Ireland and the UK? Is it the history of car ownership in the UK that means there's a culture of car care?

I mean the Irish are no more ignorant, or intelligent than the Scots, Welsh or English? The cultures are reasonably similar, so why this big difference?

Is the same neglect apparent in the northern counties of Ireland?

Was the annual MOT the reason why servicing happened every year?

There are differences, and compliance with law is one, The MOT has been around for decades as well.

Generally, the army has an affect in Britain as well. Across all classes, enough people are taught how to do something properly and to take pride in having something "right". Empire was all in the planning and preparation.

You'll see a lot of lod and late model cars in really good nick in the UK. Many will be modest as well. but just looked after.

MugMugs

Fair play OP for helping out and drawing her attention to the problem.

It's astonishing that she had tyres in such a poor condition in the first place :eek:

The driving test should be changed to include stuff like be able to remove/replace a wheel and give a car a inspection to ensure everything is fine with tyres/lights etc.

Once a person knows how to do it, it's trivial.

jimgoose

The old cross-piece wheelbraces were bad enough, but what's being provided nowadays with cars to remove and replace wheel-studs is nothing short of laughable. I carry a Bahco BHS240 socket set instead of the ridiculous thing that came with it.

And don't get me started on scissors-jacks...

jimgoose

Deleted User wrote: »

The driving test should be changed to include stuff like be able to remove/replace a wheel and give a car a inspection to ensure everything is fine with tyres/lights etc.

Once a person knows how to do it, it's trivial.

It would perhaps be more useful these days to include modules on phoning breakdown assist, and/or deploying Ye Olde Canne of Tyre-Welde.

Victor Meldrew

jimgoose wrote: »

It would perhaps be more useful these days to include modules on phoning breakdown assist, and/or deploying Ye Olde Canne of Tyre-Welde.

Wife's car has a compressor, and a bottle of gunk. And a can of tyre weld... Heaven forbid when she has to use them all by the side of the road.

I've run-flats. Which suck on many levels, but at least they remove the horrors of dealing with a flat on a motorway, and replace it with driving with your hazards on at 80kmph...

RobAMerc

funny you should say about drivers ed and the M6.
This weekend I saw a guy indicate then almost come to a stop on the inside lane before pulling into the verge for whatever he was doing ! Why not pull in before braking to a stop ?
And I have seen folk pull into the inside lane before accelerating up to anything like the speed they should be travelling at.

Moving (barely) targets !

derry

When i was sixteen i stripped down and rebuilt my first car a Peugeot 404 as it had rattle in the engine and everybody said big end gone 125,000 miles ..I Had crankshaft and bearing tested and everything was to spec so it wasn't the big end .I rebuilt the engine and found it was tension on the timing chain allowing the the timing chain to slap the timing chain cover problem fixxed and family and i did another 50,000 miles in that car before rust killed it .
In them days there wasnt internet and 2000 tv stations only rte 1 rte 2 and iffy reception of the itv and bbc channels.
Nowadays kids don't do fixing anything washing machine cars and some have never even seen a tool box or used a tool in their lives .They go onto to buy cars watch umpteen tv stations tripe and generally know nothing if it did int come from the tube .If they did want to fix cars there are neighbor that complain to council if they do it on the street and many housing estates and apartments car park have rules against repairing of cars .
The old fashioned garage where they had a lathe and even a small foundry to make parts are long gone and now its all laptops where if one spark plug is cracked and causes internment misfirieng they cant figure it out and you get bills to replace coils valves rocker arms you name before they spot its a cracked spark plug.

Nowadays when they break on side of the road i pull up and 99% have already called the AA or similar service that came with insurance and so unless there is some extraordinary reason to stay i go on my way as i got bored to lift bonnets on cars to find there was no oil or no water in engines that caused some problem as nobody ever checked the oil or water .

I carry my tool box run old cars and only do third party insurance and have the phone numbers of the locals in the region that do car ambulance just in case and saved my eff many years of AA or insurance call outs services as never had problem which i could not sort out with my tools

ROI is tuning into those that know nothing about cars some 90% afew% who think they know something often trained baboons in the large makers garages and fraction of percent in those garages firefighting who know how to fix things and trying to stop the baboons wrecking the cars they send them to off to fix .Outside of that a few % fix stuff at home themselves some fix everything including grinding valves or replacing clutches or fixing the broken brains of modern car electronics and more of them just fixing the basics spark plugs oil changes and so forth .
The future is not looking good for DIY car user who know anything as cars become more sealed component throw away items and the system ensure Irish kids learn nothing anymore except garbage and face book crap .

Good luck

Derry

dgt

TLDR a load of crap discussed in the pub. Includes lots of generalities and hearsay, nothing new

NickDunne

I've tried teaching or even explaining to the other half about changing a wheel if she's out on her own. Looks at me like i've 10 heads and says "that's what the recovery on my insurance is for" :rolleyes:

corktina

scary stuff

slimjimmc

Deleted User wrote: »

The driving test should be changed to include stuff like be able to remove/replace a wheel and give a car a inspection to ensure everything is fine with tyres/lights etc.

Once a person knows how to do it, it's trivial.

With the exception of replacing a wheel, it already does,
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_tests/driving_test.html

Technical checks of vehicle
If you are doing a driving test for categories B (car), EB (car with trailer) and W (work vehicle) you must explain some technical checks as part of your test. After you have answered some questions on the Rules of the Road, the instructor will bring you out to your vehicle. You will be asked how a technical check would be performed on 3 of the following; steering, horn, brakes, tyres, lights, reflectors, indicators, engine oil, coolant, windscreen washer fluid. Access to these items will require you demonstrate how to open the bonnet and to close it securely. Read more detailed information on technical checks for all motor vehicles here.

If you are doing a test for categories C1, C, EC1 and EC (truck and trucks with trailers) you will be asked how a technical check would be peformed on three of the same items above. Access to these items will require you to open and securely close the bonnet, to open/close panels etc.