Does Irish soccer have a problem with hooliganism?

oppenheimer1

I was watching a documentary there the other night on 3e and they came out with this rather startling fact: It takes more Gardai to police the 4,300 crowd at Dalymount Park, than it does for a typical rugby international. I used to live around the ground and remember the heavy atmosphere before games with the huge police presence.

They also showed this clip (along with others) as an illustration of the levels of violence sometimes seen at Irish soccer games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzys_0gunL4

A quick search of Youtube will yield plenty of results showing LOI supporters causing trouble in and around the grounds of the teams they follow. Are these hooligans (or casuals) now a problem for LOI and Irish soccer in general?

Too Tough To Die

Does it exist? Yes. Is it a problem? No.

My name is URL

A problem with knackers, yes.. I'm not sure I'd call it hooliganism though.

wazky

No it does not, you obviously get people who want to cause trouble at every event, sporting or not, but most LOI games pass trouble free.

Get the odd spot of trouble at the usual grudge games etc, but nothing that warrants getting worried about IMO.

Louthdrog

Ah this one! Been a league of Ireland fan all my life and never seen one incident or not felt safe at a match. That documentary if I remember was basically centered around what kids were posting on Bebo groups at the time. Horrible sensationalist stuff. They spent ten minutes talking about a man swinging an umbrella in some other blokes direction outside tolka park.

Two Tone from Limehouse

It's pretty small scale and just a bunch if wanna bees really. I can understand the Tribalism and trying to create an intimidating atmosphere but this crack of arranging to meet up and fight is just braindead.

dan1895

Seriously, that tv3 documentary is still being shown?

babaracus

The game they refer to at Dalymount is the game against Shamrock Rovers. Any other week there would be only a handful of cops.

So yes there is a problem between Bohs and Rovers but not in general in Irish soccer.

justforlaugh

no, a few idiots don't count

Two Tone from Limehouse

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I was watching a documentary there the other night on 3e and they came out with this rather startling fact: It takes more Gardai to police the 4,300 crowd at Dalymount Park, than it does for a typical rugby international. I used to live around the ground and remember the heavy atmosphere before games with the huge police presence.

They also showed this clip (along with others) as an illustration of the levels of violence sometimes seen at Irish soccer games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzys_0gunL4

A quick search of Youtube will yield plenty of results showing LOI supporters causing trouble in and around the grounds of the teams they follow. Are these hooligans (or casuals) now a problem for LOI and Irish soccer in general?

You want to go to Millwall v West Ham in the good old days if you want to see real hooliganism

BOHtox

babaracus wrote: »

The game they refer to at Dalymount is the game against Shamrock Rovers. Any other week there would be only a handful of cops.

So yes there is a problem between Bohs and Rovers but not in general in Irish soccer.

That's not true at all. I've been a Bohs fan for 10 years and never seen trouble. Of course if you're looking for a fight in Temple bar, at a football match, out in town or on holidays etc it's there for you. It's a social problem that society has to deal with it's certainly not a problem in the league in general.

TV3 used footage that's about 10 years old and tried to pass it as news. Clubs themselves have mostly dealt with that and garda activity has almost hindered the clubs' internal workings.

Most clubs have long lists of banned football supporters and that's not at the request of the gardai. Clubs don't want their names tarnished by a few scrotes.

ColeTrain

No real problem. Just a few skangers and pavement dancers.

Amirani

The "fact" RE police numbers was later rubbished by Gardaí I believe.

There's certainly no significant hooligan problems.

.jacksparrow.

Just look up bohs and rovers on you tube, there is 6 or 7 videos of organised fights, also seen trouble down in cork a few times and at saint pats.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EssabalHwlY#

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=dVW-2FkHpog#

Amirani

And is this drastically removed from the behaviour of non-footballing supporting scumbags? 6/7 incidents on YouTube in a fixture that has taken place hundreds of times doesn't represent some epidemic.

timthumbni

Are these people not referred to as "pavement dancers". Apparently a fella also superglued a beer keg to his hands as he took several attempts to launch it.

Lets face it if they really wanted to fight they wouldn't hv danced about and sang songs like " it's so fleckig easy" to each other.

Bit homo erotic sounding to be honest.

greenflash

The worst crime shown in that program is 30 rovers fans breaking the speed limit as they run away down Richmond Road.

LOI games are safe and entertaining. The only thing missing is the best fans in the world.

Fr_Dougal

Gotsh1tes.

It's all bleedin' dis and that but when they start singing its with an English accent. Muppets.

oldyouth

There were 10 LOI matches played this weekend throughout the country. There will have been more violence outside chippers in any rural town last night than at the football

pablomakaveli

There is no problem. Theres a few idiots yes but nothing major. If anything rival supporters of Irish teams tend to be more civil with each other than supporters from other countries.

I know of lads who drink with rival fans before and after a match and are even friends with some of them.

This is just TV3 sensationalising a few minor incidents involving a few idiots. Any LOI supporter knows its nonsense but unfortunately it does seem to be believed by non-LOI supporters who've never attended the game which has unfairly damaged the LOI reputation.

Richard Hillman

There is a small organised hooligan problem.
There is a major skanger problem at games. Some places are not the type of place you'd bring your kids.

dan1895

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Some places are not the type of place you'd bring your kids.

LOI grounds are not one of these place. Perfectly safe for kids and a night out they'll enjoy.

pablomakaveli

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There is a small organised hooligan problem.
There is a major skanger problem at games. Some places are not the type of place you'd bring your kids.

If anything i think its a great place to bring kids. There's always been a lot of kids at the games ive been to and theres never been any problems.

BQQ

Louthdrog wrote: »

Ah this one! Been a league of Ireland fan all my life and never seen one incident or not felt safe at a match.

BOHtox wrote: »

That's not true at all. I've been a Bohs fan for 10 years and never seen trouble.

Methinks the lads protest too much.
The problem is small in comparison to most countries, but it does exist.

LouthDrog, I seem to recall the Bohs team bus being attacked in Drogheda a couple of years ago. Did you miss that game?

And BOHtox! No trouble at bohs in 10 years? LOL
Long history of trouble between Bohs and Rovers. Give us a break.

I wouldn't be a big LOI fan, but in the say 50 games I've been to I've witnessed trouble at several grounds.

Beefy78

Not been to too many LOI matches but I did go to Rovers vs Bohs a season or two ago. No problems that I saw but definitely an edge to it that I've not seen in any English football that I've seen for a very long time.

I thought the atmosphere was tremendous, for what it's worth.

dodderangler

greenflash wrote: »

LOI games are safe and entertaining. The only thing missing is the best fans in the world.

Only thing missing is excitement and talent.

P. Breathnach

BOHtox wrote: »

That's not true at all. ...

Most clubs have long lists of banned football supporters...

If there is no likelihood of trouble, why do clubs have such lists?

Okay, you may argue that banning certain supporters is the solution, and that trouble has been reduced or eliminated because of it. But the lists would never have been created if there never was a history of trouble.

dan1895

dodderangler wrote: »

Only thing missing is excitement and talent.

Great contribution.

super_furry

Compared to British football's (largely ignored) problems, Ireland has no issues. I've been at Old Trafford where there has been a running pitched battle on the forecourt with police horses wading in, only to see nothing about it in the media. They might have moved it out of the stadium's but the problem is still there.

timthumbni

dodderangler wrote: »

Only thing missing is excitement and talent.

I used to be big into football but to be honest all of it now seems boring to me.
Think the fact that pro footballers are on such obscene wages has put me off.

Re hooligans I can't imagine the Loi has much of a problem. Probably similar to up here in the Irish league a few games have potential for trouble but mostly just a few spides acting hard.

The 2 religions can sometimes be a factor but the most likely game for aggro here would be linfield v glentoran. Both protestant support but they hate each other and have been numerous pitched (literally) battles. You tube it for examples.

Footie hooligans from all sides always say they only fight other firms but this is total rubbish. Inevitably they hunt in large packs picking on opposing supporters wearing colours. They will then write a book about it in 10 years claiming they ran off x or y team firm. It's all rather pathetic really.

.jacksparrow.

timthumbni wrote: »

I used to be big into football but to be honest all of it now seems boring to me.
Think the fact that pro footballers are on such obscene wages has put me off.

Re hooligans I can't imagine the Loi has much of a problem. Probably similar to up here in the Irish league a few games have potential for trouble but mostly just a few spides acting hard.

The 2 religions can sometimes be a factor but the most likely game for aggro here would be linfield v glentoran. Both protestant support but they hate each other and have been numerous pitched (literally) battles. You tube it for examples.

Footie hooligans from all sides always say they only fight other firms but this is total rubbish. Inevitably they hunt in large packs picking on opposing supporters wearing colours. They will then write a book about it in 10 years claiming they ran off x or y team firm. It's all rather pathetic really.

That's total bs, if you know anything about football hooligans its they only fight each other, usually the groups are called casuals because back in the day they wore casual clothes to disguise from the police, kind of blend into normal crowds as opposed to wearing jerseys and scarfs. But they never just pick a fight with normal fans who just want to watch the match.

Some of the gear they wear is stone island Armani etc, costs 100s just for a top or jeans, bohs and rovers have these groups, a simple google will show pics etc.

LowOdour

I always like to have a wight tear up with some faacking caannntts outside Terryland park, and give the 2 fingers to the Old Bill.

The reality is I onced dropped some litter by accident,and the guard asked me to pick it up

dodderangler

dan1895 wrote: »

Great contribution.

Touch a nerve there did I?
League of Ireland is sh1t.

super_furry

Not all casuals are hooligans, not all ultras are hooligans, not all hooligans are casuals or ultras.

timthumbni

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

That's total bs, if you know anything about football hooligans its they only fight each other, usually the groups are called casuals because back in the day they wore casual clothes to disguise from the police, kind of blend into normal crowds as opposed to wearing jerseys and scarfs. But they never just pick a fight with normal fans who just want to watch the match.

Some of the gear they wear is stone island Armani etc, costs 100s just for a top or jeans, bohs and rovers have these groups, a simple google will show pics etc.

I'm fully aware of where the term casual came from. You think at football hooligans only fight each other. Really?

That's what all the hooligan books spew out. We never attacked scarfers, only other firms etc etc. Whilst I agree that firms do fight each other there are also plenty of attacks on random opposing fans.

Are you saying for example that Liverpool fans in heysel were charging juve hooligans? What about rangers celtic games. Lots of violence around that game and lots of innocent scarfers as victims.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

oldyouth wrote: »

There were 10 LOI matches played this weekend throughout the country. There will have been more violence outside chippers in any rural town last night than at the football

There will also have been about 50 times as many people eating chips last night as went to LOI games.

timthumbni

LowOdour wrote: »

I always like to have a wight tear up with some faacking caannntts outside Terryland park, and give the 2 fingers to the Old Bill.

The reality is I onced dropped some litter by accident,and the guard asked me to pick it up

Hello Danny dyer. Lol. His programs on hoolies and hard men should be listed under comedy gold. What a geezer.

dan1895

dodderangler wrote: »

Touch a nerve there did I?
League of Ireland is sh1t.

That has nothing to do with what's being discussed and is just not true as there is plenty of talent and excitement.

dodderangler

timthumbni wrote: »

Hello Danny dyer. Lol. His programs on hoolies and hard men should be listed under comedy gold. What a geezer.

Considering he's such a soft twit aswell.

timthumbni

dodderangler wrote: »

Considering he's such a soft twit aswell.

You should watch Keith lemons gameshow when he had Danny on it. Took the p out of him completely. Very funny but to be fair to dyer I think he realises he's just an act.

The fact that its him doing the shows on hooligans probably shows up the sort of mentality football hoolies have.

You don't get this sort of carry on at the rugby. Lol

Yes. And it manifests itself on boards.ie too.

See: reasons for restricted access to the Soccer forum

vs.

Reasons for unrestricted access for every other sport's forum pages.

Omackeral

Tht documentary centres itself on Bebo argie bargie which will tell you that A) It's about 7 years old and It's absolute muppets giving it the big one online.

I attend a lot of LOI games and I have to say the security arrangements have improved beyond belief compared to when that 'documentary' was made. Stewards travel to away games to keep known trouble makers out and I think the Garda do a decent job too. If you want to avoid hassle, it's easily done. Not an endemic.

WesternZulu

It's way more of a problem in the premier league, you just don't hear about it anymore as the EPL or Sky don't want the bad publicity.

I feel any trouble in the LOI would be insignificant in comparison to what goes on in England or indeed between the old firm in Scotland.

gordongekko

dodderangler wrote: »

Only thing missing is excitement and talent.

ah that's not fair. There are a few good looking wags at it.

GLaDOS

dodderangler wrote: »

Only thing missing is excitement and talent.

Whatever about talent, you clearly know nothing if you think there's no excitement.

There's a small element of trouble at LOI games. Easy to avoid if you're not looking for trouble. Compared to the trouble in England which is generally ignored by the media, we're grand.

Richard Hillman

lots of "compared to England, its grand". Who gives a crap about England. Its like saying compared to Baltimore we don't have a gang problem. So effing what, it doesn't mean the problem isn't there.

There is a problem regarding peoples behaviour at and around football games in Ireland. I've been going to games 15 years or so. There are big social problems within the supporters of some teams.

Its very similar to the problem our beaches face with undesirables on Sunny days. But sure its not as bad as the beaches in Rio so its grand

dan1895

Richard Hillman wrote: »

lots of "compared to England, its grand". Who gives a crap about England. Its like saying compared to Baltimore we don't have a gang problem. So effing what, it doesn't mean the problem isn't there.

There is a problem regarding peoples behaviour at and around football games in Ireland. I've been going to games 15 years or so. There are big social problems within the supporters of some teams.

Its very similar to the problem our beaches face with undesirables on Sunny days. But sure its not as bad as the beaches in Rio so its grand

Never had a problem on a Rio beach except finding an unoccupied piece of sand to sit on.

pablomakaveli

dodderangler wrote: »

Touch a nerve there did I?
League of Ireland is sh1t.

And so is your contribution to this thread. Well done.

super_furry

Richard Hillman wrote: »

lots of "compared to England, its grand". Who gives a crap about England. Its like saying compared to Baltimore we don't have a gang problem. So effing what, it doesn't mean the problem isn't there.

Because like it or not, the only experience that the majority of people here have of club football is English football. It's a cultural yardstick that offers an easy shorthand comparison.

greenflash

super_furry wrote: »

Because like it or not, the only experience that the majority of people here have of club football is English football on television

FYP

BOHtox

BQQ wrote: »

Methinks the lads protest too much.
The problem is small in comparison to most countries, but it does exist.

LouthDrog, I seem to recall the Bohs team bus being attacked in Drogheda a couple of years ago. Did you miss that game?

And BOHtox! No trouble at bohs in 10 years? LOL
Long history of trouble between Bohs and Rovers. Give us a break.

I wouldn't be a big LOI fan, but in the say 50 games I've been to I've witnessed trouble at several grounds.

Well 20 lads hiding behind the gardai pretending to be held back while shouting "we all hate bohs/hoops scum" is hardly trouble but it'd probably be the worst I've seen. If you wait around half an hour after the match and meet in an idle location you'll find a fight but you could do the same in Temple Bar or after a night out or on holiday etc.

Most trouble is one or two fúcking twats and not "organised hooliganism" as tv3 would call it. And you can not legislate for these people

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If there is no likelihood of trouble, why do clubs have such lists?

Okay, you may argue that banning certain supporters is the solution, and that trouble has been reduced or eliminated because of it. But the lists would never have been created if there never was a history of trouble.

People misbehave. I can't help that, you can't help that. It's a problem with society.