UK slow Driver jailed for Motorway crash

Stinicker

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2387815/Motorist-slowed-just-10mph-slip-road-motorway-killed-motorcyclist-traveling-fell-braked.html

Guy slowed down excessively for the junction, Motorcyclist rear ended him and and got killed and the slow driver got jail. If the motorcyclist was in a car he might have a greater chance of survival but I think the car driver was hard done by and should not have got jail as yes he had slowed down but the motorcyclist rear ended him and got killed, had the motorcyclist kept his distance he should have time to brake sufficently to avert disaster.

I wonder what would have happened if this misfortunate case happened in Ireland?

downonthefarm

thats a bit harsh,maybe if he was drunk he could of gotten jail,if it was ireland he would have gotten slap in the wrists

Dr.Rieux

Slowing down to less than 10mph on a motorway is an accident waiting to happen to be fair. I know they say expect the unexpected but without traffic ahead you would not be able to expect someone driving that slowly on the motorway

Ilik Urgee

What's that word "accident" still doing in the dictionary?

Can't tell the full ins and outs from that article but surely one life gone is hardship enough for those involved?

DarkJager

Slowing to 10mph on a motorway is simply inexcusable. Clearly an incompetent driver who should never have been allowed near a car and now a life is lost because of him. We have these types in this country too, accidents waiting to happen with overly cautious stupid driving.

DuckSlice

yea that speed on a motorway is ridiculous, he must have missed his turn or nearly gone passed it and panicked instead of going to the next junction and coming back. it says he locked his front wheels up so this must be the case. also he never accepted responsibility which is terrible considering it was obviously his fault.

Victor

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2387815/Motorist-slowed-just-10mph-slip-road-motorway-killed-motorcyclist-traveling-fell-braked.html

His counsel, Alistair MacDonald QC said: ... 'Something must have happened ahead on the carriageway to explain why he slammed his brakes on. It’s just inconceivable that he did it as an act of devilment.'

Odd then that he can't mention what that thing is. there is something that we and possibly the court wasn't told. I suspect the defendant didn't take the stand (as is his right).

He screwed up and someone died.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Bring in testing on drivers every ten years on all kinds of driving on road/towns/motorways.

If anyone fails then their license gone until they pass the test.

No ifs or buts on anything.

goz83

downonthefarm wrote: »

thats a bit harsh,maybe if he was drunk he could of gotten jail,if it was ireland he would have gotten slap in the wrists

Not harsh at all imo. Especially because the guy took no responsibility for the accident.

goz83

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Bring in testing on drivers every ten years on all kinds of driving on road/towns/motorways.

If anyone fails then their license gone until they pass the test.

No ifs or buts on anything.

Won't stop people from making stupid decisions though. Pass your test and go on your merry way.

Blazer

Dr.Rieux wrote: »

Slowing down to less than 10mph on a motorway is an accident waiting to happen to be fair. I know they say expect the unexpected but without traffic ahead you would not be able to expect someone driving that slowly on the motorway

Completely agree..he deserved jail for that kind of driving.
They should start cracking down on slow drivers in this country too...I dread being behind them when joining motorways or coming off them.

goz83

The guy will probably never get insurance again. There will be some serious money paid out to the family of the poor guy who is now deceased. I have made a few silly mistakes on the road, but this one just takes the biscuit. I might hold off on that bike license.

Tigger

Clearly a brake test
In ireland the biker would of been resurected and found guilty

Karl Stein

downonthefarm wrote: »

thats a bit harsh,

Na. The selfish bastard killed an innocent man by means of his reckless driving He deserves time.

bazzachazza

Tigger wrote: »

Clearly a brake test
In ireland the biker would of been resurected and found guilty

Soon enough as threads go on here it will be the fault of the OP.

Something more to this story alright, anyone who practically stops on a motorway for no conceivable reason and causes a death SHOULD be jailed.

You see the Darwinists daily on Irish motorways everyday, reversing in the hard shoulder because they missed their exit(the other week I drove 25kms because I got a phone call to go back to the hospital just at the maynooth exit I drove to kilcock to go back), leave the hard shoulder straight in to the driving lane without building speed in the hard shoulder first, you hear of people driving the wrong way on motorways, etc etc etc etc.

About time something was done over here

Padraig Mor

Tigger wrote: »

Clearly a brake test
In ireland the biker would of been resurected and found guilty

Agree with this. Reading between the lines there seems to be more to the story than was presented in court. Quite possibly why he didn't take the stand.

ted1

Blazer wrote: »

Completely agree..he deserved jail for that kind of driving.
They should start cracking down on slow drivers in this country too...I dread being behind them when joining motorways or coming off them.

I think your missing out on what happened, it wasn't slow driving. It was the breaking down to slow speeds

El Inho

Going on the judges comments, when he gets out he's going to have drinking problems

Cee-Jay-Cee

He deserved jail. Slowing down to less than10mph on a motorway for no reason is downright dangerous no matter what the circumstances. The man had no reason to slow down other than his own stupidness and someone died as a result. If he wasnt fit to drive in a normal fashion on a motorway then he should have used other roads. He killed someone and deserves to be imprisoned for his ridiculous and dangerous driving.

stoneill

Not harsh - he deserves prison.

I saw a gob****e recently on the N4 miss his exit, pull into the hard shoulder past the exit, creep along and then drive up the wrong way on the entry ramp.

djimi

Nearly happened to me a few years ago. Woman in the outside lane of the M7 in rush hour traffic decided at the last minute that she wanted to take the Carlow exit and slammed on the brakes, coming to a near stop. Luckily I managed to avoid hitting her but if I had it would have caued a high speed multi car pileup.

I have no sympathy for this guy and if him getting jail time gets it through some other peoples thick skulls why you dont do stupid things like this on a motorway then Im all for it quite frankly. Slap him with a lifetime driving ban also, just in case he didnt get the message the first time.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Pro Hoc Vice

Stinicker wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2387815/Motorist-slowed-just-10mph-slip-road-motorway-killed-motorcyclist-traveling-fell-braked.html

Guy slowed down excessively for the junction, Motorcyclist rear ended him and and got killed and the slow driver got jail. If the motorcyclist was in a car he might have a greater chance of survival but I think the car driver was hard done by and should not have got jail as yes he had slowed down but the motorcyclist rear ended him and got killed, had the motorcyclist kept his distance he should have time to brake sufficently to avert disaster.

I wonder what would have happened if this misfortunate case happened in Ireland?

He was driving at 10 MPH on a motorway, that is the very definition of dangerous driving, In Ireland he would more than likely face a Trial, on conviction on a guilty plea, he would get 5-10 years ban, more than likely a suspended sentence of about 2 years.

corktina

the slowing down to ten mph isnt the issue here, it's the dangerous driving in missing the slip road and braking heavily in an attempt to turn off that caused the accident.A rare case of the rear-ender driver not being to blame although possibly he could be partly blamed for being too close as you are supposed to be able to stop in an emergency.

TheChizler

corktina wrote: »

A rare case of the rear-ender driver not being to blame although possibly he could be partly blamed for being too close as you are supposed to be able to stop in an emergency.

That's why it's wise to treat the driver in front as a potential brick wall in your path.

jackofalltrades

corktina wrote: »

A rare case of the rear-ender driver not being to blame although possibly he could be partly blamed for being too close as you are supposed to be able to stop in an emergency.

You can leave as much space as you want, but other road users can easily fill up the space, especially where there's a merge involved.

That and locking your front wheel is always a potential risk under emergency breaking conditions.

corktina

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You can leave as much space as you want, but other road users can easily fill up the space, especially where there's a merge involved.

That and locking your front wheel is always a potential risk under emergency breaking conditions.

in which case you drop back to re-establish a safe gap.

TheChizler

corktina wrote: »

in which case you drop back to re-establish a safe gap.

Or god forbid, slow down a bit.

hoodie6029

The guilty party didn't take the stand to defend himself, pleaded innocent costing tax payers thousands. This dragged the entire process out for the grieving family. He has left children without a father and taken a husband from a wife forever.

He is a person with no perception of what goes on beyond the end of his own nose. His actions in his trial prove this. Also the fact he was going to drive off with a man trapped under his car.

Driving is a serious business. Unfortunately most people seems to have gotten their skill on bumper cars and playstations.

TheChizler

Does anyone know how it was determined that the motorcyclist wasn't even partly at fault for not giving enough room to stop?

Pro Hoc Vice

TheChizler wrote: »

Does anyone know how it was determined that the motorcyclist wasn't even partly at fault for not giving enough room to stop?

Maybe this expert evidence along with other evidence,

"Navdip Gill, a partner at Geoffrey Leaver Solicitors, said rear-end crashes were almost always the fault of the driver behind.
‘The law says motorists should always heed the presence of the vehicle in front and be aware of their surroundings, so the rule of thumb is that the driver who hits the rear of the vehicle in front is almost always the responsible party.
‘It is only in exceptional circumstances that the driver travelling behind is not held responsible, or partially responsible.’
He said exceptional circumstances included a car deliberately pulling out in front of another driver and reckless braking."

NuckingFacker

TheChizler wrote: »

Does anyone know how it was determined that the motorcyclist wasn't even partly at fault for not giving enough room to stop?

On a motorway? You'd need to be doing 30mph to "allow enough distance to stop" if some numpty is doing 10mph around the next bend. Jail is good enough for him, sadly, it will not deterr the next numpty one bit, because if they gave a damn about other road users in the first place, they wouldn't be numpties. But they are.
I was on the N7 last week - some tool missed the naas exit, pulled in, put on their hazards, because "that's the safe thing to do" and reversed back to the exit. I wouldn't mind, but that exit is harder not to take than to take. Times like that, I wish i was in the traffic corps..

TheChizler

NuckingFacker wrote: »

On a motorway? You'd need to be doing 30mph to "allow enough distance to stop" if some numpty is doing 10mph around the next bend. Jail is good enough for him, sadly, it will not deterr the next numpty one bit, because if they gave a damn about other road users in the first place, they wouldn't be numpties. But they are.
I was on the N7 last week - some tool missed the naas exit, pulled in, put on their hazards, because "that's the safe thing to do" and reversed back to the exit. I wouldn't mind, but that exit is harder not to take than to take. Times like that, I wish i was in the traffic corps..

What motorway, apart from in adverse weather conditions, doesn't give at least 500 m visibility? I'm not blaming the victim, I'm wondering why they didn't have a chance to avoid it.

colm_mcm

infosys wrote: »

Maybe this expert evidence along with other evidence,

"Navdip Gill, a partner at Geoffrey Leaver Solicitors, said rear-end crashes were almost always the fault of the driver behind.
‘The law says motorists should always heed the presence of the vehicle in front and be aware of their surroundings, so the rule of thumb is that the driver who hits the rear of the vehicle in front is almost always the responsible party.
‘It is only in exceptional circumstances that the driver travelling behind is not held responsible, or partially responsible.’
He said exceptional circumstances included a car deliberately pulling out in front of another driver and reckless braking."

Is there something in between the lines thats being implied?

Victor

Some blame may attach to the motorcyclist, but the driver of the slowed vehicle did wrong also. The motorcyclist paid for any mistakes with his life.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is there something in between the lines thats being implied?

No, I don't think so. If you read the article, the accused braked and changed lane - "But, passing sentence, Judge Robert Altham, told Walsh: ‘You gratuitously braked hard and veered to the left while in the slow lane with such suddenness that you came to a rapid halt at what was a fairly busy time."

The article has been changed. There had been a statement from a female driver that she swerved at the last moment to miss the slowed car. I think the motorcyclist was behind her and he may not have been able to see the slowed vehicle.

jackofalltrades

TheChizler wrote: »

What motorway, apart from in adverse weather conditions, doesn't give at least 500 m visibility? I'm not blaming the victim, I'm wondering why they didn't have a chance to avoid it.

It's a lot harder to take evasive action on a motorbike than it is to do so in a car.
Judging by the fact he locked the front wheel, shows that the motorcyclists tried to avoid the car but couldn't.

TheChizler

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It's a lot harder to take evasive action on a motorbike than it is to do so in a car.
Judging by the fact he locked the front wheel, shows that the motorcyclists tried to avoid the car but couldn't.

My point was along the lines of you should be able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear but it appears there was swerving and lane changing going on which complicates matters.

Pedro K

I'm a biker and a car driver. You can leave as much distance as you want, but if something like this comes up in front of you it would be very easy to lose control. Instinct would be to slam the brakes, which the rider obviously did, causing the wheels to lock. Not necessarily the correct thing to do, but the instinctive thing.

It says he slid under the car. I don't think it said whether or not the bike actually hit the car. I also wonder was the driver in the overtaking lane and slowed and crossed lanes as well, or was he in lane one all along?

Driving at 10MPH on a motorway is dangerous driving anyway. End of.

visual

Only too easy to lock the front wheel on a bike when braking hard and when the front wheel skids the bike just drops to the ground and your off.

brokenarms

Stinicker wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2387815/Motorist-slowed-just-10mph-slip-road-motorway-killed-motorcyclist-traveling-fell-braked.html

Guy slowed down excessively for the junction, Motorcyclist rear ended him and and got killed and the slow driver got jail. If the motorcyclist was in a car he might have a greater chance of survival but I think the car driver was hard done by and should not have got jail as yes he had slowed down but the motorcyclist rear ended him and got killed, had the motorcyclist kept his distance he should have time to brake sufficently to avert disaster.

I wonder what would have happened if this misfortunate case happened in Ireland?

I don't understand the relevance of your statement about the motorcyclist being on a bike and having a less chance of survival. What has that got to do with anything. If he was killed in a car due to a dangerous driver, would it have been ok?

The driver is where he should be.
A Twat that stood on the brakes for a junction and killed a man.
Not to mention the destruction of the lives of his own family the victims family.

djimi

TheChizler wrote: »

My point was along the lines of you should be able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear but it appears there was swerving and lane changing going on which complicates matters.

On a busy motorway with the traffic travelling at speed its virtually impossible to keep the safe stopping distance; somebody will always fill the gap between you and the car in front.

CJhaughey

If it was a family that had been killed instead of a motorcyclist, would there be this much discussion of the sentence?

corktina

except in an emergency, there should never be any need to brake at all on a Motorway if you are driving correctly. What this guy did was an emergency brake appication, not in an emergency but in order not to miss his turn off. Clearly to me that is dangerous driving.

The biker should have been following at such a distance that he could stop in an emergency and is possibly some bit to blame too, but only very small percentage attaches to him given the behaviour of the car driver.

NuckingFacker

If you are on a bike, and following, say, a van, or an SUV, on the motorway, your view ahead can be severly restricted- if the van, high vehicle or suv swerves off right, you can easily be left looking at the rear of the stopped vehicle blocking the carriageway within a second or less. There are Youtube clips of a Police Motorcyclist(In The Netherlands I think) following an Artic tractor unit, the tractor is blocking his view ahed - tractor swerves at last minute to avoid broken down vehicle in carriageway, Police Bike slams straight into the broken down vehicle.

Broken down is one thing, deliberatly stopped is another. I was following a Polo once at 120kph when the polos timing belt broke and it literally locked solid in front of me like someone had built a wall across the road - I swerved my car, but had not a chance of looking to see if the lane to the right was clear first - luckily it was and I "got away" with it - if there had been another vehicle there, that was a pile up. Stuff happens PDQ at 120kph.. you really don't need the idiot factor at those speeds.

miller50841

Glad to see he is doing time hopefully it will open peoples minds to the fact that you have to be aware of what is in front as well as what's going on behind.

It's obvious this guy was doing the usual race to the end of the queue and do the late cut in to jump up a few car's what he done is lethal especially on a motorway and may have been lucky doing this for years and sadly for the motorcyclist it didn't work well that day.

Stop sticking up for the car driver he was wrong he planted his foot on the brakes and even at a safe distance been on a bike is totally different then having 4 wheels under you.
If you have never ridden a bike then you won't understand.

I understand the point of distance and maybe there may not have been enough given by the rider but braking like this especially for no reason is honestly crazy.

R.I.P to the motorcyclist.

corktina

i didn't see anyone sticking up for the car driver, it's fairly obvious he was "bang to rights and slammed up "

AugustusMinimus

The driver got what he deserved.

Sadly in this country, he'd get off with a slap on the wrist. In this country, if you're not speeding or not drunk then you're driving safely.

jackofalltrades

corktina wrote: »

The biker should have been following at such a distance that he could stop in an emergency and is possibly some bit to blame too, but only very small percentage attaches to him given the behaviour of the car driver.

And for all we know he could have had a safe distance to stop in an emergency. But emergency braking on a motorbike carries the real risk of locking up the front wheel and when that happens there's a good chance you're coming off.

Keeping the safe stopping distance is virtual impossible on a busy motorway, someone is going to fill that gap, and if you start braking constantly to create the gap you will probably end up with people tailgating you or cutting you up as they change lanes.

Being a motorcyclist means accepting the unfortunate reality that if another road user wants to endanger your life, they can. And there's only so much you can do about it.

colm_mcm

You have to ask yourself though, how likely is that guy to reoffend?
after seeing the biker stuck under the back of his car.

Someone died as a result of that guys mistake, but in my opinion it doesn't make him a scumbag/murderer etc.

I've seen plenty stupid manoeuvres by motorists where, if you put a motorcyclist whose brakes lock up into the equation would have ended up the same.

So maybe people should be jailed solely on how dangerously they drive, regardless of whether there are any fatalities?

corktina

i suppose I could be charitable and put it down to a momentary lapse of judgement...but it clearly was dangerous driving and clearly death was the result.

Thing is though, assholes do this everyday and get away with it and from an Ireland point of view, that's largely down to lack of driver education and Garda enforcement.

Red Nissan

Not an easy call to make. But we do see this a lot on Irish roads and in my experience has been the nearest I've come to causing an accident.

The sudden braking mentioned would make me think a little as to the motive.