No water meter on properties or rubbish charges in UK (#false)

mogrady14

Friends living in the South East of Britain don't have to pay for water or rubbish collection. The SE of Britain is hotter than here and they get less rain and they still don't pay for water. Nor do they pay for refuse charges. Most of my friends were to college in UK and never paid water charages. When they started working they still didn't pay water charges. There were no water meters on the properties.

In Ireland there is also a tax on houses. Supposedly the household tax is to pay for services but we already pay for services like rubbish collection and water.

Whether u are on 100,000 euro in the public sector or are on the dole, you still are expected to pay even the same amount. Wouldn't it be fairer to raise income tax?

If we are paying the household charge to fund services- why do we have to pay water charges and for rubbish collection?

[MOD]People in the SE of the UK do pay water charges.[/MOD]

DM addict

You do pay for water in the UK. Also things like bin collections are covered through council tax.

Rascasse

1. They do pay water charges.

2. They also pay council taxt. Someone in the South East of England would pay between £900 (small flat) to £3000 (large detached house) per year in council tax.

sneakyST

They are telling you porkies. I pay around £1200 council tax which includes refuse collection, plus water and sewerage on top. If they aren't working they will get special rates.

@Rascasse - Council tax isn't based on house size, its based on the area you live in and historical valuations

spank_inferno

I think the op needs to look into property tax rates paid in the UK compared tio here.

bumper234

And then there's the BEDROOM tax!

spank_inferno

bumper234 wrote: »

And then there's the BEDROOM tax!

Again... No such thing.
All the "bedroom tax" is, is a reduction in rent allowence based on unoccupied bedrooms.

The rent allowance system here is broadly similar.

Boulevardier

The Council tax in England includes rubbish charges, which in my opinion should also be included here in our property tax.

The water charge in England facilitates privatisation, which is likely to happen here as well in a few years, whetever the government say.

These are 2 instances where Irish householders will have to pay direct and regressive charges for services which they used not to have to directly pay for, with no compensating reductions in any other taxes or charges.

That is an outrageous rip-off. Average Irish people are being screwed into the ground. We need to demand that all waste and water costs are included in a progressive property tax or some other local tax.

spank_inferno

Boulevardier wrote: »

The Council tax in England includes rubbish charges, which in my opinion should also be included here in our property tax.

The water charge in England facilitates privatisation, which is likely to happen here as well in a few years, whetever the government say.

These are 2 instances where Irish householders will have to pay direct and regressive charges for services which they used not to have to directly pay for, with no compensating reductions in any other taxes or charges.

That is an outrageous rip-off. Average Irish people are being screwed into the ground. We need to demand that all waste and water costs are included in a progressive property tax or some other local tax.

UK council rates are still probably higher than our LPT, + waste, + water.

I would agree with you regarding "Irish Water", whether its semi-state or fully private.

The charges are not regressive, they are in fact the opposite.

The reason there was not compensating reductions is because the cost of public services in Ireland is still too high.

I'm happier to pay service-by-service than in 1 charge that has no flexibility or hope of competition.

http://www.southeastwater.co.uk/your-account/about-your-bill/water-charges#.UgTpk9K1Hms

The average domestic bill for the year 1 April 2013 to 31 March 2014 is £201.

DoesNotCompute

Boulevardier wrote: »

The Council tax in England includes rubbish charges, which in my opinion should also be included here in our property tax.

I'm guessing that this is a non-starter given that some (if not most) Councils in Ireland have already handed over waste collection to private companies.

everdead.ie

Boulevardier wrote: »

The Council tax in England includes rubbish charges, which in my opinion should also be included here in our property tax.

The water charge in England facilitates privatisation, which is likely to happen here as well in a few years, whetever the government say.

These are 2 instances where Irish householders will have to pay direct and regressive charges for services which they used not to have to directly pay for, with no compensating reductions in any other taxes or charges.

That is an outrageous rip-off. Average Irish people are being screwed into the ground. We need to demand that all waste and water costs are included in a progressive property tax or some other local tax.

We are paying for taking a large amount of people out of the tax bracket and this is no longer being covered by the Construction Industry which is very heavy on taxes as far as I know.

Boulevardier

The direct charge/competition/privatisation agenda is intended to have two crucial effects: firstly, driving down wages and working conditions for those in the industry, and secondly, protecting the better off from higher progressive taxes.

The alternative is a public service model of inclusive provision, financed by progressive taxes.

L1011

They're likely paying 1400-2000 a year in council tax to get their "free" bin collection. 200-400 for water and sewerage based on an estimate, Southern Water are heavily pushing metering as a money saving option at the moment.

Amirani

Boulevardier wrote: »

These are 2 instances where Irish householders will have to pay direct and regressive charges for services which they used not to have to directly pay for, with no compensating reductions in any other taxes or charges.

They're definitely not regressive?

People with more expensive houses pay more property tax.

People who use more refuse (generally refuse output has a positive correlation with wealth) pay more refuse charges.

Please explain how they're regressive taxes again?

donaghs

DM addict wrote: »

You do pay for water in the UK. Also things like bin collections are covered through council tax.

Worth noting that our existing taxes are/were already paying for our water services.
I agree with the idea of paying for usage, but in the current climate, adding new taxes on top of our existing ones just looks like revenue raising exercises.

L1011

donaghs wrote: »

Worth noting that our existing taxes are/were already paying for our water services.

Except our existing taxes aren't paying for everything they're meant to pay for, hence the defecit.

djpbarry

donaghs wrote: »

...in the current climate, adding new taxes on top of our existing ones just looks like revenue raising exercises.

Why else would new taxes be levied?

Boulevardier

Usage taxes are regressive because they are not based on wealth or on ability to pay. They come down hardest on homes with a high ratio of dependents to all occupants.

New taxes of this kind are not the answer to our revenue shortfalls. Higher income tax, and wealth tax, should be the first tax sources to be called on.

FG seems to be trying to con the people of Ireland into buying into a host of regressive taxes in order to protect their own wealthy backers. The pity is, we are being fooled.

donaghs

djpbarry wrote: »

Why else would new taxes be levied?

To reform the taxation system mainly. e.g. new tax for water based on usage (encourage more environmentally friendly water usage, etc) but then, say, reduce VAT to stimulate growth.

I accept the point that our government is not raising enough revenue to pay its bills. New taxes aren't always the answer. Taxation seems to be the easier option than cutting government spending.

djpbarry

Boulevardier wrote: »

New taxes of this kind are not the answer to our revenue shortfalls. Higher income tax, and wealth tax, should be the first tax sources to be called on.

They've already been called on - Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in the world.

The shortfall cannot be made up without broadening the tax base.

djpbarry

donaghs wrote: »

Taxation seems to be the easier option than cutting government spending.

Largely because the same people who argue against tax increases also argue against spending cuts.

ardmacha

The usual rants.
"Taxes are regressive" - while then using the example of Britain where bin charges are in your house tax. At least here if you dump less you pay less and with a water meter if you use less you pay less.
"Cut Spending" - which spending exactly do you propose to cut?
"wealth tax" - might a tax on houses by value not be a start
"our existing taxes pay for water" - not really, there is a large deficit, existing taxes are not enough

Lockstep

Currently living in the UK: we have to pay both water charges and council tax.
Council tax is crippling as well: at least £100 a month in Nottingham. It can be as high as £300 for a fancier house.
Water charges are normally £200-400 a year as well.

Mr.Micro

Lockstep wrote: »

Currently living in the UK: we have to pay both water charges and council tax.
Council tax is crippling as well: at least £100 a month in Nottingham. It can be as high as £300 for a fancier house.
Water charges are normally £200-400 a year as well.

Irish people have gotten away for decades not paying this, not paying that. Now we are being dragged kicking and screaming to the realization that services cost and have to be paid for. I lived in the UK for a long time and I agree, at the start of every year one owed the Council tax and water charges, no matter what. Crippling indeed, but what choice is there?

Am Chile

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Irish people have gotten away for decades not paying this, not paying that. Now we are being dragged kicking and screaming to the realization that services cost and have to be paid for. I lived in the UK for a long time and I agree, at the start of every year one owed the Council tax and water charges, no matter what. Crippling indeed, but what choice is there?

What a crock of bs-since domestic rates being abolished in 1977- are you seriously suggesting we have being getting free services? last time I checked the council workers who work in the water department and other departments werent working for free-they are being paid through our taxes to provide the services that they have being providing- and then we have some sheeple suggest irish people arent paying their way.

SpaceTime

As students, you must have been in student accommodation or somehow escaped the council tax dragnet.

Council Tax in England is pretty seriously expensive and really makes our Local Property Tax and commercial bin charges look rather insignificant in comparison.

One of my relatives in London is paying about £300/month in property tax and has metered water on top of that and the rent is absolutely astronomically expensive for what is quit a basic apartment.

For anything that's not a hovel, you pay a completely insane amount of money in London anyway. I'm not sure about the rest of the SE, but it does seem quite expensive in general.

The electricity's a bit cheaper, and so's the gas but overall the cost of living's nuts.

Himself and his partner also have rather unimpressive incomes for their education level and the fact that they're mid-way up their career ladder.

---

Also, a friend of mine in London fell into arrears on council tax because she'd lost her job and the council sent in bailiffs and took her car (which she needed to get to work), her TV and most of her furniture.

...

Quite honestly, Ireland's not *THAT* bad. We do a hell of a lot of moaning and going on about it being awful. It's got its problems but it's really not that bad a place to live (assuming you can get a job ... and even if you can't you certainly won't be left destitute either)

oscarBravo

Am Chile wrote: »

last time I checked the council workers who work in the water department and other departments werent working for free-they are being paid through our taxes...

...and borrowings.

Mr.Micro

Am Chile wrote: »

What a crock of bs-since domestic rates being abolished in 1977- are you seriously suggesting we have being getting free services? last time I checked the council workers who work in the water department and other departments werent working for free-they are being paid through our taxes to provide the services that they have being providing- and then we have some sheeple suggest irish people arent paying their way.

Did we pay rates? No we did not, for water... no. Businesses have been paying the rates all this time and funds from the Government has been the source of funding for the local authorities. Our UK cousins and many other nations pay taxes and these charges as well. We have had the worst crisis in the history of the state and there is not enough money to go round, so like it or not we the public have to pay, in addition to our taxes. There is little choice.

SpaceTime

A lot of areas of Ireland did pay water charges. For example, they were quite the norm in Cork until the 1996/7 !!

If you're in Dublin City Council / former Dublin County Council areas they didn't exist, but if you were in Dún Laoghaire they were levied too.

hfallada

I cant understand why people complain about having to pay for water and bins charges in Ireland. You have already being paying for them when you paid taxes you just didnt know. Water treatment cost €1,2 billion per year, €1 billion is paid for by the exchequer. Now the Government is making you pay for it directly.