Buying a house in Negative Equity

Ms2011

Our house is a repossesion rather than NE but no less hassle.
Sale agreed almost 5 months, last communication was January when I was told the house was with the banks tax department waiting on clearance from the Revenue before they will offically agreed to the sale (which was 7k over the asking price) & issue the consent of sale.
I'm lucky in that I already have a house & am paying cash for the new one but so frustrating all the same. I'm getting married next week so that's been keeping my focus so far but I want to apply alot of pressure when I come home from Honeymoon however I'm terrified they might just end up pulling the plug on the sale which would be heartbreaking as it really will be our dream home.
Really don't know what to do for the best

gmisk

Last communication in January that would worry me slightly I would really keep on at them, what have you got to loose? They are going to say yes or no at the end of the day regardless......try 10 months sale agreed...house in NE still waiting for approval from AIB to ok sale.....thats fun!
Good luck with the the wedding! (and the house).

Ms2011

gmisk wrote: »

Last communication in January that would worry me slightly I would really keep on at them, what have you got to loose? They are going to say yes or no at the end of the day regardless......try 10 months sale agreed...house in NE still waiting for approval from AIB to ok sale.....thats fun!
Good luck with the the wedding! (and the house).

Yeah I'll be home from Honeymoon mid April so the gloves will be off then, up until now I've been operating under the 'no news is good news' mantra but that's getting old now.
Don't know what we'll do if we lose this house, there are others on the market similar to it but it was the first one I walked into & it just felt like home, I'm so emotionally invest in it which I suppose was a silly thing to do.
Anyway I guess what will be will be...!

Good luck on your house sale too, fingers crossed we'll both be lucky!

on_my_oe

I'm seriously considering making a case to Small Claims if our negative equity purchase doesn't go through to cover the surveyors fees, the valuers fees, the solicitors fees and my own time.
I'm conscious I might be the vendors back up plan if the banks don't give them the €100,000 write off between our offer and the price they paid in 2008.
In the meantime, I'm going to start harassing the local TD... I don't see why I should be out of pocket if I've acted responsibly, and I think Riclad has hit the nail on the head with "pre-listing authorisation"

gmisk

on_my_oe wrote: »

I'm seriously considering making a case to Small Claims if our negative equity purchase doesn't go through to cover the surveyors fees, the valuers fees, the solicitors fees and my own time.
I'm conscious I might be the vendors back up plan if the banks don't give them the €100,000 write off between our offer and the price they paid in 2008.
In the meantime, I'm going to start harassing the local TD... I don't see why I should be out of pocket if I've acted responsibly, and I think Riclad has hit the nail on the head with "pre-listing authorisation"

Do you have signed contracts?
If not I think it would be a waste of time.
It really is not fair I am in a similar position myself I am guessing 600/700 down the drain at least....

leinster93

on_my_oe wrote: »

I'm seriously considering making a case to Small Claims if our negative equity purchase doesn't go through to cover the surveyors fees, the valuers fees, the solicitors fees and my own time.
I'm conscious I might be the vendors back up plan if the banks don't give them the €100,000 write off between our offer and the price they paid in 2008.
In the meantime, I'm going to start harassing the local TD... I don't see why I should be out of pocket if I've acted responsibly, and I think Riclad has hit the nail on the head with "pre-listing authorisation"

I was thinking the exact same thing and also getting in touch with Shane Ross who actually help raise real issues as such...
And what is happening needs to be raised and policy changed so this shouldn't be allowed to happen.

HouseHunter13

What did you guys have in mind for the letter? - I'd love to do something similar, not just to help my case but to protect others from this bullshít!

sale agreed 9 months tomorrow

leinster93

HouseHunter13 wrote: »

What did you guys have in mind for the letter? - I'd love to do something similar, not just to help my case but to protect others from this bullshít!

sale agreed 9 months tomorrow

I'm not sure how legally it would stand by going through the small claims but am going to look into this. There is no binding contract until the seller signs the contract and this is where the fall down is so legally the seller is not liable for any expense going by the letter of the law.

Am still left hanging over 8 weeks now since we signed the contracts and still no sign of the contracts with the vendors signature.

Mr.McLovin

I've been following this thread as a friend is in a similar predicament and its horrible to see him messed about like this, people should be made aware of NE before a sale can be agreed that's for sure, unfortunately I don't think there are enough of you for any politicians to give a crap tbh

iguana

Think I may be joining you guys. We're waiting on bank consent on our offer which the vendors are happy to accept. The EA has told me that the bank is forcing the sale and it has to happen but whether or not they take our offer is another matter. We discovered a structural issue with the house, so that made our offer lower than it would have been. Tbh, I thought the EA would poopoo it straight away but he passed it on to the vendor who will accept it if the bank does but I don't know what to expect there. I guess the structural problem may work in our favour as it means that the sale of the house is limited to cash buyers and nobody but us has shown any interest in over a year. The market here is most certainly not rising but there is a lot of delusion out there, so what will happen is anyone's guess.

Reading this thread has shown me that the key thing to do is to spend as little as possible on this purchase until we have written consent from the bank. And to keep on looking for other houses as there are no guarantees at all about this purchase until contracts are exchanged. There are three other houses in the area that have potential but tbh, none tick so many boxes as this one. It's as close to dream home as I'll get without a big lottery win.

gmisk

HouseHunter13 wrote: »

What did you guys have in mind for the letter? - I'd love to do something similar, not just to help my case but to protect others from this bullshít!

sale agreed 9 months tomorrow

I would be interested in this too.

10 months coming up in a few weeks...

leinster93

Having a quick look into the legalities it seems the Consumer Protection Act 2007 could potentially deal with such issues that are highlighted in this thread.

Looking at http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_protection_act_2007.html
under the section Unfair commercial practices

The Act provides that a range of unfair, misleading and aggressive trading practices are banned if they would be likely to cause appreciable impairment of the average consumer's ability to make an informed choice in relation to the product concerned and would cause the average consumer to make a decision about a transaction that they would not otherwise make. Practices are banned, therefore, if they meet two conditions:

1. They are unfair, misleading or aggressive
2. They are likely to distort your consumer's choice

IMO, one would have to prove that the Vendor is misleading the buyer. Would be difficult to prove with so many variables at play

One thing is for sure, Estate Agents should make their clients fully aware of this fact and make them aware that they could be open to a court case if they deliberately mislead buyers when placing their property on the market.

2013Lara

Interested too, would love to raise awareness. This should not be allowed to happen.

riclad

Maybe estate agents could say, we wont sell a house in negative equity,
unless we have a contract,legal document, letter from the bank, saying we will not stop the sale if the offer is say x, eg 100k.
like the reserve system for auctions, eg if seller doe,snt get offered x amount
the house is taken off the auction list.
OR have a code of practice for the banks , we,ll tell agent we need x amount,
if we get that amount or a higher bid the sale goes through.
The bidders dont need to know this figure,
just put it on sale for a price the agent thinks is fair.
See what offers come in on it.
NO bid will be accepted unless the bank agrees to it.

macnug

leinster93 wrote: »

Having a quick look into the legalities it seems the Consumer Protection Act 2007 could potentially deal with such issues that are highlighted in this thread.

Looking at http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_protection_act_2007.html
under the section Unfair commercial practices

The Act provides that a range of unfair, misleading and aggressive trading practices are banned if they would be likely to cause appreciable impairment of the average consumer's ability to make an informed choice in relation to the product concerned and would cause the average consumer to make a decision about a transaction that they would not otherwise make. Practices are banned, therefore, if they meet two conditions:

1. They are unfair, misleading or aggressive
2. They are likely to distort your consumer's choice

IMO, one would have to prove that the Vendor is misleading the buyer. Would be difficult to prove with so many variables at play

One thing is for sure, Estate Agents should make their clients fully aware of this fact and make them aware that they could be open to a court case if they deliberately mislead buyers when placing their property on the market.

I think that's only relevant when buying from a commercial entity, when its individual buying from individuals its mainly buyer beware.

macnug

riclad wrote: »

Maybe estate agents could say, we wont sell a house in negative equity,
unless we have a contract,legal document, letter from the bank, we will not stop the sale if the offer is say x, eg 100k.
like the reserve system for auctions, eg if seller doe,snt get offered x amount
the house is taken off the auction list.
OR have a code of practice for the banks , we,ll tell agent we need x amount,
if we get that amount or a higher bid the sale goes through.

Well im surprised there not doing this already, doubt there getting paid with all this messing.

leinster93

macnug wrote: »

I think that's only relevant when buying from a commercial entity, when its individual buying from individuals its mainly buyer beware.

I think you're right. In the current climate where houses are being put on the market with vendors having no real intent to sell some legislation to protect buyers from being exposed to large expense as such should be in place.

on_my_oe

I was still eyeballing the ceiling at 2am stressing so emailed my local TD and asked;
Why pre-approved consent to sale certificates aren't issued?
Why banks valuations aren't done in advance of the property going on the market?
Why are consents taking so long, and specifically why are purchasers left dangling for the monthly/quarterly review meetings?
and last but least, why should we as purchasers be left out of pocket?

To be fair, got a reply today I am taking up these issues with the Minister for Finance by way of a Dáil Question. I should have a reply next week and will be in touch again at that stage

When I get an update, I'll post it here, but if you can contact your own TDs, it would be good to reinforce the message

macnug

leinster93 wrote: »

I think you're right. In the current climate where houses are being put on the market with vendors having no real intent to sell some legislation to protect buyers from being exposed to large expense as such should be in place.

Yea I agree, it's not right whats going on.

2013Lara

Email sent to TD representing Wicklow/Carlow area.

gmisk

2013Lara wrote: »

Email sent to TD representing Wicklow/Carlow area.

Email sent to my local TDs as well...all 5 of them .
First to fix things gets my vote for life

HouseHunter13

Seems I wasted an email on Patrick Nulty...

gmisk

Maybe you could try him on facebook.......or maybe he will contact you if your lucky..........

HouseHunter13

gmisk wrote: »

Maybe you could try him on facebook.......or maybe he will contact you if your lucky..........

I'm afraid what he'd ask in return for the favour!

Think I'll try Ms.Burton instead

gmisk

HouseHunter13 wrote: »

I'm afraid what he'd ask in return for the favour!

Think I'll try Ms.Burton instead

Ha that might be your best bet.....I didnt get any response to my emails

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/WHTNTptUEe8/hqdefault.jpg
She does love the grass roots at the ground on the ground level and has a range of policies no doubt

on_my_oe

I'm still holding out hope that Roisin Shortall comes back with a decent response

gmisk

I got an email from Joan Collins asking to meet to talk about it more....that was rather nice

iguana

The EA just rang to say the bank have agreed to our offer and we have arranged to meet up tomorrow to talk through what happens next. I feel at a bit of a loss about what I should ask for at that meeting. I guess what the bank have said and what type of time limit they have suggested before we get written agreement is most important?

gmisk

iguana wrote: »

The EA just rang to say the bank have agreed to our offer and we have arranged to meet up tomorrow to talk through what happens next. I feel at a bit of a loss about what I should ask for at that meeting. I guess what the bank have said and what type of time limit they have suggested is most important?

That is brilliant news congratulations!!!!

Can I ask how long you were sale agreed?

I suppose it would be important to ask for a timeframe to close things?
Maybe also make sure you have insurance etc ready to go?

riclad

MAYBE they want to check your finances,
have you got mortgage approval,
and for how long?
most mortgages are 90 per cent are less, of the sale price.