strategic default on mortgage

fisher8181

I was lucky enough not to have brought a house in the boom like a lot of my friends but if I had and i thought there was a chance I could get some sort of a writedown by strategically defaulting then I definitely would.

I realise that this will get the same old arguements as always
they made stupid decision, they must pay their debts
why should I pay for their mistakes etc etc

I would look at it this way,

If developers are going bankrupt and buying back their own houses at knockdown prices, bankers and politicians are still earning huge salaries and bonuses then why should the ordinary people not look for as much of a writedown as possible. IMO they would be absolute mugs to look at developers going bankrupt and getting their debts written off while they struggle to keep up with payments.

kneemos

How does one justify the other?

Boombastic

Johnny rowan or whatever that lads name is and his mate got €5 million back each for their debts. As it turns out, we owed them money

Would your friend not check and see if he's owed monies?


Nama is the biggest scam this country has ever seen.

fisher8181

kneemos wrote: »

How does one justify the other?

because developers bankers and politicians caused this mess and if you are happy to watch them get away scott free and not look for a way out yourself through bankruptcy or strategic default then you are a mug

SEPT 23 1989

the strategic default spin coming out of the banks is despicable behavior

MugMugs

fisher8181 wrote: »

because developers bankers and politicians caused this mess and if you are happy to watch them get away scott free and not look for a way out yourself through bankruptcy or strategic default then you are a mug

Yes I am a Mug....... Thanks !

Despite this, You don't think a write down is just that and that the debt disappears, do you?

We all have to pay for it in the end !

Not very fair, is it?

bringupthebook

fisher8181 wrote: »

because developers bankers and politicians caused this mess and if you are happy to watch them get away scott free and not look for a way out yourself through bankruptcy or strategic default then you are a mug

Look we all caused this mess. There were plenty of willing buyers out there not looking further ahead than their next pay cheque so lets not say one justifies the other. Perhaps the average Joe Soap has more integrity but thats all that seperates them.

Who pays for those who go down the 'strategic default' route? Us of course! I'm such a mug

kneemos

fisher8181 wrote: »

because developers bankers and politicians caused this mess and if you are happy to watch them get away scott free and not look for a way out yourself through bankruptcy or strategic default then you are a mug

So if the bloke down the road gets off with a drink driving charge then we all should?You are morally and legally responsable for you're debt,what do you think is going to happen if nobody pays their morgage?

nino1

MugMugs wrote: »

Yes I am a Mug....... Thanks !

Despite this, You don't think a write down is just that and that the debt disappears, do you?

We all have to pay for it in the end !

Not very fair, is it?

The taxpayer has to pay for this mess anyways through increases taxes, USC etc. Any increased taxes to cover the defaulters will be just another consequence of the mess caused by the bankers politicians etc

Sir Humphrey Appleby

fisher8181 wrote: »

I was lucky enough not to have brought a house in the boom like a lot of my friends but if I had and i thought there was a chance I could get some sort of a writedown by strategically defaulting then I definitely would.

I realise that this will get the same old arguements as always
they made stupid decision, they must pay their debts
why should I pay for their mistakes etc etc

I would look at it this way,

If developers are going bankrupt and buying back their own houses at knockdown prices, bankers and politicians are still earning huge salaries and bonuses then why should the ordinary people not look for as much of a writedown as possible. IMO they would be absolute mugs to look at developers going bankrupt and getting their debts written off while they struggle to keep up with payments.

Fine then let the "ordinary people" go down the same route, bankruptcy, of course they will lose their homes in doing so.
Of residential mortgages in Ireland (not buy to let) almost 90% of "ordinary people" are paying their mortgage, why should they be penalised by higher intrest rates or increased taxes/cuts to subsidize strategic defaulters?

fisher8181

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Fine then let the "ordinary people" go down the same route, bankruptcy, of course they will lose their homes in doing so.

i think much more people should. It has a stigma here that people need to get over.
I would mush rather lose my home and have the debt written off andnthen rent or buy a home i could afford comfortably.

anncoates

Do actual figures exists that prove there is widespread strategic defaulting? It sounds like a convenient antidote to the bad publicity that repossession of family homes incur.

Obviously if anybody is not paying their mortgages when they are able to, they should be punished.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

fisher8181 wrote: »

i think much more people should. It has a stigma here that people need to get over.
I would mush rather lose my home and have the debt written off andnthen rent or buy a home i could afford comfortably.

No chance of buying one, you would never get a credit facility again.

MugMugs

nino1 wrote: »

The taxpayer has to pay for this mess anyways through increases taxes, USC etc. Any increased taxes to cover the defaulters will be just another consequence of the mess caused by the bankers politicians etc

and the people too lazy to deal with the consequences of their actions and cover the debt that they agreed to in the first place.
That includes myself.

I am in negative equity of over 60%...... I don't have any intention of sponging off you so why should you feel the need to sponge off me?

Potatoeman

fisher8181 wrote: »

I was lucky enough not to have brought a house in the boom like a lot of my friends but if I had and i thought there was a chance I could get some sort of a writedown by strategically defaulting then I definitely would.

I realise that this will get the same old arguements as always
they made stupid decision, they must pay their debts
why should I pay for their mistakes etc etc

I would look at it this way,

If developers are going bankrupt and buying back their own houses at knockdown prices, bankers and politicians are still earning huge salaries and bonuses then why should the ordinary people not look for as much of a writedown as possible. IMO they would be absolute mugs to look at developers going bankrupt and getting their debts written off while they struggle to keep up with payments.

Writedowns are usually a deal between the bank and borrower. The bank would have to take the loss and write it down so they are far more likley to let you run up the debt. If there was a government scheme you would need to give financial records. This would mean being unable to pay so if you are still working its kind of hard to prove.
It would likley be a debt for equity swap where you lose more in the long term.

kc90

Boombastic wrote: »

Nama is the biggest scam this country has ever seen.

How so?

Potatoeman

kc90 wrote: »

How so?

It keeps property out of the market so its an artificial bottom. It reduces the housing stock artifically so anyone buying when its still running will pay more for property.

Roger_007

Speaking as a part owner of the banks, (along with every other citizen), I do NOT want to see the banks writing off debts willy nilly. It doesn't matter whether they are strategic defaulters or not. They would be doing it with MY money. I want them to collect every cent they can get. I want to get as much of MY money back as they can possibly get. All the talk about 'eviction' and people being made homeless is just a load of emotional bulsh1t. Of course anyone who has a large mortgage and think they can get a writedown if they plead inability to pay, will do so. That's human nature. I have had a mortgage in the past and managed to pay it off with much hardship.
There is a long-term danger in all of this nonsense-talk about the family home being 'sacrosanct'. If it is then it cannot used as security to obtain a mortgage in the future. What mortgage lender in their right mind would give a mortgage to someone who could thumb their nose at them the following month because the lender has no security for the loan. Result:- nobody will get a mortgage in the future. Is that what we want?

stonecarver

Hey all, never mind strategic default, bank of Ireland are screwing the very people that came to their rescue and bought 14% of their shares when nobody else would touch them(the irish public, you and me).

I am in negative equity and have mortgage arrears, I am to the pin of my collar to meet repayments. I borrowed the money, it was a gamble and I am to blame for my own debts. It is annoying that the economy is so depressed as a result of overall bank debt, that it is hard to maintain work and pay off my debts.

I dont think there are many people who are strategically defaulting, bank of ireland put you through the ringer if you miss payments.

Anyhow has anyone out there been successful in coming to an agreement with bank of Ireland, in relation to a mortgage repayment system where bank of ireland has taken some of the hit? there have been very few posts on the matter, which is surprising.

Also look at the amount of sponsering/advertising bank of ireland has invested in this site, I wonder why?

donegal_road

Boombastic wrote: »

Johnny rowan or whatever that lads name is and his mate got €5 million back each for their debts. As it turns out, we owed them money

Would your friend not check and see if he's owed monies?


Nama is the biggest scam this country has ever seen.

definitely one of the top 3 scams. Both NAMA and DDDA have the same executive sponsors – the Galway Tent brigade. In fact NAMA is the new Galway Tent, Bankers, Developers, Politicians all in each others pockets. Owned by the Taxpayer, for the benefit of the elite. Previously protected by FF, now protected by FG/Labour.

It is one of the most secretive state organisations and is specifically excluded from the Freedom of Information Act.















.

Menas

fisher8181 wrote: »

i think much more people should. It has a stigma here that people need to get over.
I would mush rather lose my home and have the debt written off andnthen rent or buy a home i could afford comfortably.

Strategic defaulters do not get their debt written off. It is a mortgage, the clue is in the name.

Potatoeman

stonecarver wrote: »

Hey all, never mind strategic default, bank of Ireland are screwing the very people that came to their rescue and bought 14% of their shares when nobody else would touch them(the irish public, you and me).

I am in negative equity and have mortgage arrears, I am to the pin of my collar to meet repayments. I borrowed the money, it was a gamble and I am to blame for my own debts. It is annoying that the economy is so depressed as a result of overall bank debt, that it is hard to maintain work and pay off my debts.

I dont think there are many people who are strategically defaulting, bank of ireland put you through the ringer if you miss payments.

Anyhow has anyone out there been successful in coming to an agreement with bank of Ireland, in relation to a mortgage repayment system where bank of ireland has taken some of the hit? there have been very few posts on the matter, which is surprising.

Also look at the amount of sponsering/advertising bank of ireland has invested in this site, I wonder why?

How was borrowing money a gamble? If its your home then why does its value matter. You would still have to make mortgage repayments and if you upgraded you would be paying even more.
High house prices dont benefit you if you intend to buy another house, in fact it seems to only benefit those with multiple houses.

shopaholic01

Strategic default seemed like a genius idea to many, wonder how they'll feel when banks start repossessing?

If anyone is getting 'a deal' with their bank it will have a confidentiality agreement, so we'll never really know what is happening.

I have a mortgage and am in negative equity, but I pay because I want to keep my home. I have huge sympathy for those who can't pay, but none for those who won't, just because they think they shouldn't have to.

Keith300

fisher8181 wrote: »

I was lucky enough not to have brought a house in the boom like a lot of my friends but if I had and i thought there was a chance I could get some sort of a writedown by strategically defaulting then I definitely would.

I realise that this will get the same old arguements as always
they made stupid decision, they must pay their debts
why should I pay for their mistakes etc etc

I would look at it this way,

If developers are going bankrupt and buying back their own houses at knockdown prices, bankers and politicians are still earning huge salaries and bonuses then why should the ordinary people not look for as much of a writedown as possible. IMO they would be absolute mugs to look at developers going bankrupt and getting their debts written off while they struggle to keep up with payments.

If you borrow money from someone and don't pay it back it's wrong. Simple as that. Of course I'm not saying I'd never strategically default myself were I in such a situation, however I wouldn't delude myself that what I was doing was right.

bumper234

bringupthebook wrote: »

Look we all caused this mess. There were plenty of willing buyers out there not looking further ahead than their next pay cheque so lets not say one justifies the other. Perhaps the average Joe Soap has more integrity but thats all that seperates them.

Who pays for those who go down the 'strategic default' route? Us of course! I'm such a mug

Please explain?

paddy147

fisher8181 wrote: »

I was lucky enough not to have brought a house in the boom like a lot of my friends but if I had and i thought there was a chance I could get some sort of a writedown by strategically defaulting then I definitely would.

I realise that this will get the same old arguements as always
they made stupid decision, they must pay their debts
why should I pay for their mistakes etc etc

I would look at it this way,

If developers are going bankrupt and buying back their own houses at knockdown prices, bankers and politicians are still earning huge salaries and bonuses then why should the ordinary people not look for as much of a writedown as possible. IMO they would be absolute mugs to look at developers going bankrupt and getting their debts written off while they struggle to keep up with payments.

Quite a good few people who bought more than 1 house are being offered 50% writedowns on the money owed.

Its the Non National/Non Irish banks who are doing this and saying ..."look just pay us back half of what you owe us,and we will call it quits".

suicide_circus

kneemos wrote: »

So if the bloke down the road gets off with a drink driving charge then we all should?You are morally and legally responsable for you're debt,what do you think is going to happen if nobody pays their morgage?

If NOBODY pays their mortgage, a lot of banks, pension funds, institutions will collapse. If one or two people don't pay their mortgage they will be fooked out on the street by the sheriff...hmmm.....

Mr.McLovin

Interesting interview with a strategic defaulter in this link...

http://www.mortgagebrokers.ie/uncategorized/talking-with-a-strategic-defaulter/

smash

kneemos wrote: »

what do you think is going to happen if nobody pays their morgage?

Project mayhem shall fall into place!

NuckingFacker

MugMugs wrote: »

Yes I am a Mug....... Thanks !

Despite this, You don't think a write down is just that and that the debt disappears, do you?

We all have to pay for it in the end !

Not very fair, is it?

Hmm, you do know how the banks "created" the debt in the first place, right? Easy come, easy go.

NuckingFacker

Keith300 wrote: »

If you borrow money from someone and don't pay it back it's wrong. Simple as that. Of course I'm not saying I'd never strategically default myself were I in such a situation, however I wouldn't delude myself that what I was doing was right.

Again, a lot of people really do not have a clue as to how a bank creates a mortgage. You didn't borrow money, you agreed to pay back an amount of money. An amount that didn't actually exist in the first place and was purely notional. It becomes an amount of money as you actually go earn it and hand it to the bank. Otherwise, it's some digits on a notional balance sheet pretty much "plucked out of their ar5e" - have a google of "how banks create money" for a better description of how it works in practice.:)

MadsL

donegal_road wrote: »

definitely one of the top 3 scams. Both NAMA and DDDA have the same executive sponsors – the Galway Tent brigade. In fact NAMA is the new Galway Tent, Bankers, Developers, Politicians all in each others pockets. Owned by the Taxpayer, for the benefit of the elite. Previously protected by FF, now protected by FG/Labour.

It is one of the most secretive state organisations [/B]and is specifically excluded from the Freedom of Information Act.[/B]

It is 51% privately owned.

Yeah, gives me the shivers too.

Femme_Fatale

bringupthebook wrote: »

Look we all caused this mess.

Most certainly not all equally though.

galwayrush

Potatoeman wrote: »

It keeps property out of the market so its an artificial bottom. It reduces the housing stock artifically so anyone buying when its still running will pay more for property.

It also pays certain bust developers extremely well to run their failed companies and sell at a loss . Builders not in NAMA obviously can't compete against this .

NuckingFacker

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Most certainly not all equally though.

Agreed. I've no loans. Did I cause the mess? If I did, I missed the "how" bit. Very much agree on the Nama angle. An unholy public private alliance if ever there was one - the collapse of communism in the USSR is the only equivalent transfer of wealth I can think of to compare it to.

bringupthebook

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Most certainly not all equally though.

Oh yes I agree. When I say we all created this mess I mean on some level (obviously there are exceptions). I didnt buy a house in the boom - luckily we had bought many years before. We have a smallish mortgage that we can pay and are both in full time employment. But I paid boom time prices for hotels, meals out etc so i consider that I helped fuel the false economy that we lived in.

NuckingFacker

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Otherwise, it's some digits on a notional balance sheet pretty much "plucked out of their ar5e"

A debt once drawn down is as real as the cash I have in my current account.

A quick look at the Bank of Ireland financial statements as at the end of 2012 shows Loans and advances to customers and other banks of 22,729,118 and money owed to other banks, depositors and bondholders of 22,133,978,000

If the people who owe the bank money default and pay back say 50% of the money owed how do you propose the Bank of Ireland pay back the depositors and bondholders?

Potatoeman

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Again, a lot of people really do not have a clue as to how a bank creates a mortgage. You didn't borrow money, you agreed to pay back an amount of money. An amount that didn't actually exist in the first place and was purely notional. It becomes an amount of money as you actually go earn it and hand it to the bank. Otherwise, it's some digits on a notional balance sheet pretty much "plucked out of their ar5e" - have a google of "how banks create money" for a better description of how it works in practice.:)

It doesnt change the fact that the money was borrowed and spent. You are free to question the monitory system but perhaps this is something people should have done before signing the contract.

Fighting Irish

Look after yourself i say