To mod or not to mod

chevron

Iv been reading and going through the threads on here and i have noticed a lot of people saying mod this and mod that.

do most people here collect to mod and play or collect the consoles in there original state.

Does modding it not devalue the console as once its modded its not in its original state.

Just curious as to why so many hardware mods.

Retr0gamer

Well I collect my games to play them and I want to play them as they were intended and also want to play games from different regions. The only way to do this is to mod the console. If I was all about collecting consoles in their original condition then I wouldn't mod, or at least have one console as intended and a modded console for playing the games.

I find modded consoles actually go for more than the untouched consoles.

o1s1n

Modded consoles always seem to go for more than unmodded alright. They're just enhanced. Do the mod right and you won't even see it's there unless you're looking for it.

Only things which you shouldn't mod are rare consoles for preservation reasons. But most consoles were released in very large quantities so don't worry about it.

Edit - just to note that by 'mod' I don't mean blue LED strips or paint jobs.

Modding as in giving the console the correct 60hz out/removing region locks/getting the best picture quality out.

chevron

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I collect my games to play them and I want to play them as they were intended and also want to play games from different regions. The only way to do this is to mod the console.

But isn't Modding the console so its in 60hz over 50hz enhancing it rather than as intended.
If so wouldn't it just be better to play a ported version on a newer console like PS3 or xbox

If I was all about collecting consoles in their original condition then I wouldn't mod, or at least have one console as intended and a modded console for playing the games.

This is what i expected most collectors to be like.

o1s1n wrote: »

Edit - just to note that by 'mod' I don't mean blue LED strips or paint jobs.

Modding as in giving the console the correct 60hz out/removing region locks/getting the best picture quality out.

Yes this is what i ment by modding

o1s1n

chevron wrote: »

But isn't Modding the console so its in 60hz over 50hz enhancing it rather than as intended.
If so wouldn't it just be better to play a ported version on a newer console like PS3 or xbox



This is what i expected most collectors to be like.

No, because we would rather play them as they were intended on original hardware.

Look at it this way, 50Hz on a PAL machine is not how 60hz Japanese games were intended to be played. So by modding them to 60hz you're actually playing them the way the games designers wanted them to be played. If anything, you're preserving the original intended gameplay

Just on a side note, I'm an extremely anally retentive (!) collector. I don't open sealed games when I find them, I'm rather obsessive over rare things and try to keep everything as original as possible; and yet I still have everything modded which can be modded.

One thing I don't do is collect boxed consoles. If I did then I probably wouldn't mod them. I guess it boils down to whether you collect games or consoles. I collect consoles, but only as a means to play my videogame collection. Not to collect consoles.

The Last Bandit

Most mods are purely to removed region restrictions and/or to allow the games be played at full speed as per the designers original intention.

PAL region consoles rarely had games modified to take into account the different refresh rate and screen resolution so we got a neutered experience.

I'd not worry about modding the common stuff as millions were made, rarer stuff I'd personally not touch apart from necessary work to keep them alive.

chevron

I understand what you all are saying, im just having a hard time getting it into my head.

I think retro gamer said it best for me to understand.

If I was all about collecting consoles in their original condition then I wouldn't mod, or at least have one console as intended and a modded console for playing the games.

o1s1n

chevron wrote: »

I understand what you all are saying, im just having a hard time getting it into my head.

I think retro gamer said it best for me to understand.

Well yeah, that's exactly it. Are you interested in playing and collecting videogames themselves or collecting mint boxed consoles?

There are people who do both, just personal preference really.

Even then, I'm fairly sure folks who collect fully mint, boxed, untouched consoles still have modded versions to play the games properly

chevron

i understand boxed sealed items are better "value wise" but that doesn't matter to me (at the moment).

After reading and thinking... i think i may be more of a console collector with select games rather than going for the full 784 snes games or 915 Mega drive games.

although that would be a nice accomplishment

in my mind a modded console take away from the original experience but having said that its getting to the stage were RF inputs on tv's are being weeded out.

guess im just realizing why and what i want to collect.

Retr0gamer

chevron wrote: »

in my mind a modded console take away from the original experience but having said that its getting to the stage were RF inputs on tv's are being weeded out.

But playing on a unmodded PAL console is not playing the games in their original experience. PAL consoles slow the games down to 50 FPS which has a huge negative effect on how the games play and ruin the music in these games. It as screws with the aspect ratio. Paying them in 60 Hz is playing them as originally intended.

Also playing games in RF is also no an original experience. RGB scart is how they should be played, it gives a much better and clearer picture. There are exceptions like the NES which doesn't support RGB but still should be played in AV composite and not RF.

This demonstrates how bad the difference between PAL and NTSC is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSSYo0npMhA

chevron

Understanding the fact the games were made in japan under the 60hz system but a 50hz system was brought out to Europe.

wouldn't it still be as intended (even if only due to system compatibility) as the systems were brought out in Europe with different video output therefore modding is changing the original hardware (even if its reverting back to Japanese specs)

Retr0gamer

The games however were never meant to be played in 50 Hz though. Due to laziness most developers did not speed up the games or match the aspect ratio of the games to suit. The original developers made the games to be played in 60 Hz not in 50. Sorry to say but the truth is your whole videogaming life as a child was a lie

It's like a film fan watching a film in the wrong aspect ratio or in VHS. You're playing a much inferior version of the game and not how the original creators intended it to be played. Why would you do that when in this day and age when you can easily modify consoles and also know better.

If you are into collecting consoles fair enough. If you are into playing the games I feel playing them in 50Hz unless designed for 50Hz is a disservice to yourself and the original games designers.

Retr0gamer

The 50 Hz system was brought out in Europe not because it was good for you and enhances the games you are playing. It was brought out because it was easier to manufacture and make money from kids that didn't know better or care. That was until Super Play started telling us all that the version of Street Fighter 2 we were playing on the SNES was terrible.

chevron

i want to play the games as intended as you say in 60hz.

Guess my only option is to have 2 of each console.

one modded and one left untouched.

This could get expensive lol

o1s1n

Some mods can even turn something which is unusable into something very functional.

My Sega Nomad sat unused for years as more of a collectors curiosity.

Then Enternow came along and modded it with a beautifully clear replacement LCD (the comparison is like night and day, 90s LCD technology is beyond crap at this stage) allowing me to actually see the picture.

He also cracked open a dead rechargable battery pack (all Nomad battery packs no longer work) and put in a new battery. This extended it's battery life from a measly 3-4 hours on half a ton of AAs to literally what seems like unlimited usage. It never goes dead!

So rather than being a curio, I now have a very functional portable Megadrive.

Edit - I just remembered, there's also a region lock workaround there I'd completely forgotten about (as you can't see it)

You hold down the select button and it'll boot up in either 50 or 60hz.

Retr0gamer

Yeah it's sometimes necessary. You won't find a Game Gear now without screen and sound problems. The only thing to do is crack it open give it a clean and replace all the capacitors.

You can also learn something from it now. I got a CDi a while ago and the laser was busted. There were no repair tutorials online for it. So I went ahead and replaced the Laser unit myself. I learned how to solder and now the internet is a much better place since I put the only CDi 450 repair tutorial up on it. Was it worth it to have a fully functioning CDi unit? That's a different story.

Retr0gamer

chevron wrote: »

i want to play the games as intended as you say in 60hz.

Don't forget the RGB cables!

Myrddin

Playing over RF isn't playing them as intended, RGB cables were available back then as they are now, it's just fewer people used them. To say RF would be 'as intended' would be wrong.

Playing at 50Hz isn't as intended, unless in certain examples of 50Hz optimization. 60Hz, is by & large, how they were intended to be played.

If you want the best of both worlds, 60Hz gameplay & unmodded consoles, consider importing your consoles or collecting NTSC-U/J ones. Most mods just remove restrictions that are put on a console, & by removing them, you're just re-enabling the console to do what it was designed to do in the first place. Other mods, add additional things that the console could never originally do, like a PC Engine RGB mod.

chevron

Ok then.. So what would the costs be for these mods on most consoles.

Snes?, Nes?, Megadrive?

Or even what consoles Require this mod?

When i said this mod i mean 60hz upgrade and region adapting

Myrddin

chevron wrote: »

Ok then.. So what would the costs be for these mods on most consoles.

Snes?, Nes?, Megadrive?

Or even what consoles Require this mod?

The NES can't be 60Hz modded, you'll have to buy an import NES for that, which is what a few of us have done. As I said above, consider importing the console you want to collect, you'll get a stock/unmodded console with native 60Hz gameplay.

If importing a Snes, consider the US one to the Super Famicom. Sure, it's looks arn't for everyone, but you won't need to cut the case or use a nasty import adapter either for SFC games,

o1s1n

Just to show you the beauty of this Nomad as it is hands down the best console mod ever





Look at that screen!


You'll probably hate my modded Gameboy though

Retr0gamer

Famicom AV mod is essential just to get it working.

Getting a US NES to play at 60Hz is essential and removing the lock out chip for reliability and to allow PAL games to be played as well is essential. A PAL NES can't be modded and is kind of a waste of time.

Megadrive with language and 50/60 Hz switch

The Master System is worth modding but a lot of later games were only made for Europe were made to work in 50 Hz.

SNES with 50/60 Hz switch. Might be best to get a US one for games like Super Mario RPG

PS1 you'd want to get chipped to play imported games. You don't need a frequency chip, the game decides the frequency which means if you are buying PAL versions of games you should sell them and get NTSC ones unless it's a PAL exclusive.

Saturn you need a Hz switch and a 4 in 1 cart to play imports.

After that it gets easier.

Dreamcast games mostly have PAL 60 Hz modes built in.For the ones that don't just burn a utopia swap disk to play the imports.

Modding a PS2 with a hard disk mod is essential. It's a software mod so no need to modify the original hardware. Also games play off the hard disk saving on laser wear (PS2's break all the time from this) and load quicker.

The XBox is easily modded but there's only a few imports worth playing like Metal Wolf Chaos and the unreleased Rent a Hero No. 1.

Gamecube can use the freeloader disc.

Wii can be software modded.

chevron

Arrrgh decisions decisions....

I want to be able to play any game i can find but the thought of hurting a poor oul defenseless and working console hurts me.

Like i have 2 PSP's one cfw modded and one official software

I like being able to play any game i can buy. and i like the idea of untouched pure consoles even if they are downgraded European models :P

o1s1n

But your poor PAL consoles are shacked and oppressed by 50hz. Their whole life, their 60hz American and Japanese counterparts have been laughing at them.

You're not hurting them, you're freeing them from their misery.

Edit - By the way, what are you planning on doing when all the capacitors in your hardware start to fail and the consoles no longer work?

Going to become more and more regular as time goes on... it's already happening Gamegears for example (most either have no sound now or don't work at all) and is rampant through Amiga computers.

Capacitors have a lifespan - they leak and die. If you don't change them before they leak they will ruin your console's pcb. The acid will slowly leech through all the traces... Enternow said the sound board on my Gamegear literally crumbled in his hands.

Could change the capacitors, but that's not original factory mint anymore

Whether we like it or not, classic hardware will have to face the operating table at some point. It's not infinite technology.

CiDeRmAn

I think the MD mod is the best one and the first to have as it makes the most difference to games played on a standard tv, though it's only really effective with an RGB cable, as I have recently found out.
So, all in all that's going to cost you the price of a new current gen game, not prohibitively expensive and will improve your gaming pleasure no end.

o1s1n

I'd put the Megadrive 50/60hz mod and the Snes 50/60hz?CIC chip mod on the same line - they're both essentials.

Megadrive seems to be a good bit easier to do though. Not that I've ever done it, but damn have I read the tutorial many times!

chevron

o1s1n wrote: »

Could change the capacitors, but that's not original factory mint anymore

Whether we like it or not, classic hardware will have to face the operating table at some point. It's not infinite technology. :

Ah but a life saving replacement of caps is different.

Its like a heart transplant compared to a cosmetic boob job.

I'd put the Megadrive 50/60hz mod and the Snes 50/60hz?CIC chip mod on the same line - they're both essentials.
(

looks like id end up getting them eventually.
weather its on a second console or not is a different story lol

o1s1n

chevron wrote: »

Ah but a life saving replacement of caps is different.

Its like a heart transplant compared to a cosmetic boob job.

Haha! very good

A cap replacement replaces a lot of parts. You'd be surprised how many caps some consoles/computers have.

A Megadrive 50/60hz mod on the other hand for example cuts a couple of traces and wires them to a switch. There really is not very much to it. 60hz is there on the console board, you're just allowing access to it via a switch.

Technically the mod alters less of the original console than the cap replacement.

Anyway, as you said, if you want an original, unaltered one that much, get two of each. Only down side will be the space requirement, won't cost you very much at all most consoles are cheap as chips.

chevron

There wouldn't be many consoles that need modding would there? to allow a better video out.

My plan is to have a fair few systems all hooked up and on display. with no interchanging of cables.

all done via scart switch's rgb switch's and the likes.


need to figure out the way to go with this.

o1s1n

PAL Megadrive/Snes/Saturn/PS1/PS2/Gamecube/Neo Geo AES/Atari Jaguar/Amiga A1200 (and many others!) all have RGB out as standard. So it's just a matter of getting an RGB cable for them.

Unfortunately some like the NES and N64 only do composite out at best (there's a really cool modified (!) S video cable you can get for the n64 though). So you're kind of stuck when it comes to them.

You can mod a Nes with a PPU from a Nintendo Playchoice arcade board to get RGB out of the console, but the chip will cost you about €100 (or the price of a Playchoice).

There's also a Famicom model that does RGB out, but it's pretty expensive.

Myrddin

chevron wrote: »

Arrrgh decisions decisions....

I want to be able to play any game i can find but the thought of hurting a poor oul defenseless and working console hurts me.

You need to fundamentally re-evaluate what you perceive a mod is doing. Essentially, you are re-making connections on the motherboard that have been removed either for regional or cost-cutting reasons. A mod, in most cases, wont ever give the console the ability to do things it could never do i the first place, it's just removing restrictions.