Could I have hurt my puppy?

ManannanMacLir

I got a 9 week old puppy a few days ago and he has been barking a lot when left in the utility room to sleep. I never had a dog but was told by those I know that do have dogs that when he barks to hit him on the nose/head. I hated the idea of this but this morning gave in and each time he barked I hit him on the head (not that hard). After about 15-20 smacks I felt awful and gave up. I then went online and read more about it and have seen how outdated this is and never to do it!! I feel awful about it now and won't ever do it again, I'm just terrified I could have caused any physical damage?

dharma200

I very much doubt you have done lasting damage to the pup. If you are concerned bring him/her to the vets. I have to say that anyone that honestly thinks hitting a dog every time it barks is even nearly something to listen to, maybe you arent at the stage of your life where the responsibility of a pup is something you should have.

tk123

ManannanMacLir wrote: »

I'm just terrified I could have caused any physical damage?

You should be more worried about the emotional damage you could cause by teaching your puppy that you or other people could hurt it. What's your routine ie what time are you putting the puppy to bed, how many times are you taking it out to the loo? I had to take my pup out around 4:00am this morning to go to the loo..

ManannanMacLir

He sleeps on the floor at our feet in the sitting room about 9, I bring him outside every 2 hours to go to the loo. He is put down to bed in the utility room at around half ten. He is played with all day and due his final booster next week so we can start getting him outside. I didn't like the idea of smacking him but I spoke to friends and colleagues that have all had dogs for years and they all said to do it. I only did it this morning and he's playing happily since then but I feel like crap! I'll stick with a firm 'NO' in future and not listen to the advice of those people.
The smacks were light but still the thought of something awful like brain damage terrifies me now that I have read how outdated this method is. From the amount of people I spoke to and they're consensus it just seemed like everyone does it.

andreac

Please dont hit your poor baby on the head!! The poor puppy, its only a baby and you are using physical violence on it that does no good whatsoever.

As Tk said, what is your daily routine with the pup? When is it fed, let out to the toilet and so on. He is probably barking for a reason. Also, you have to remember, at 9 weeks, it has just been taken away from all its siblings and mother so the poor thing is just lonely and looking for company.

It takes weeks, even months for a puppy to settle into a household so please be a bit kinder and have some patience and stop hitting your dog full stop!!

andreac

How long do you leave the pup at night before letting it out to the toilet? Puppies cannot hold it in very long so you need to get up every few hours to let it out to the toilet.

ManannanMacLir

I don't get up during the night, maybe around 12 and then again at half 6. I put newspaper down, he goes on that and I clean the place thoroughly every time. I need to be getting up during the night?

kylith

Firstly, hitting a 9 week puppy for barking is like hitting a 2 year old child for crying - it's something they do, and they won't understand being punished for it. He is barking during the night because he is a baby, he has suddenly been taken away from his mum and siblings and now he's in a strange place with strange people and he's on his own all night. If I were you I'd probably have him in a crate in my bedroom for the first little while, and then gradually move him to where you want him to sleep.

You will need to get up and let him out to toilet during the night, he is not old enough to hold it yet. A month or so of broken sleep will mean that you won't have to clean up messes in the mornings when he gets older (and trust me, there is nothing worse than having to take 15 minutes out of your morning schedule to clean up wee and poo). If you don't establish the routine that the toilet is outside when he's a pup it'll take him longer to learn it as an adult. Putting down paper rather than taking him out teaches him nothing except that it's ok to toilet inside and you will regret it in the long run, trust me.

Assuming you were tapping him rather than walloping him you probably won't have done any physical damage, but you will have taught him to be afraid of hands because they bring pain. You'll need to redress this with plenty of gentle petting, hand feeding, and general niceness. Never hit any dog, puppy or adult; it teaches them to fear hands and they may well become nervous, fearful, and possibly aggressive.

andreac

You shouldnt be encouraging the dog to go on newspaper. It just prolongs the training process and confuses the pup. As puppies cant hold it in for very long, you need to be letting them out every few hours to go. Then you can gradually increase the time thats it left at night so he will eventually hold it all night.

What kind of dog is it?

tk123

ManannanMacLir wrote: »

I don't get up during the night, maybe around 12 and then again at half 6. I put newspaper down, he goes on that and I clean the place thoroughly every time. I need to be getting up during the night?

Sadly yes..but at least we're lucky atm with the weather atm lol! I take my pup out around 11:30-00:00 and some nights she's been sleeping until almost 6 - she's 10 weeks. If she does wake up during the night it's only once, out to the loo then straight back to sleep. Puppies don't want to go to the loo where they sleep so he could be crying for you to bring him out until he can't hold it anymore. Paper training like that will just slow down house training him anways and confuse the pup

ManannanMacLir

Jesus I've gotten some awful advice from friends it seems! He's a golden lab. They were just taps. I'll never even tap him again though! I was told that gradually reducing the size of newspaper and then moving that outside when he goes outside was the best way. I also read so many places online saying not to let them sleep in your bedroom or they just get used to it and you're just putting off the time when he has to sleep elsewhere.

andreac

ManannanMacLir wrote: »

Jesus I've gotten some awful advice from friends it seems! He's a golden lab. They were just taps. I'll never even tap him again though! I was told that gradually reducing the size of newspaper and then moving that outside when he goes outside was the best way. I also read so many places online saying not to let them sleep in your bedroom or they just get used to it and you're just putting off the time when he has to sleep elsewhere.

Again thats an old fashioned way of training them. But its just confusing for the pup. They think they are allowed to go inside, even on the paper, when really you want it to go outside.
So you should be just encouraging outside from the word go, full stop.

Crate training is brilliant and i highly recommend it.

fatmammycat

MML, the only thing you really teach a dog by hitting it is that you're a bit unstable and can't be relied upon not to hurt said dog.
But it's good that you're going to stop doing this. Pups cry at night until they get into a routine and because they're so small with small bladders they can't hold it for long periods. If you let your pup out late and once during the night and then early morning and praise praise praise him for doing his business he'll catch on to it fairly quickly. Don't hit him, he's a baby and has no idea why when he calls for his owner ( which is what he's doing) that this owner then frightens him or hurts him. Patience is key with puppies and training, be consistent too and you'll soon have harmony.

tk123

ManannanMacLir wrote: »

JI also read so many places online saying not to let them sleep in your bedroom or they just get used to it and you're just putting off the time when he has to sleep elsewhere.

You can crate the puppy in your room and just gradullay move the crate further away from your bed then out onto the landing etc etc. But if you want the pup to sleep in your room at night that's ok - it's not going to make the pup think it's above you or any old nonsense like that. I have every intention of allowing my pup to sleep on my bed...as soon as I know she won't wet it!

annascott

<snip> Of course you can harm the puppy. Please do not hit your puppy! You can do terrible damage. You are using 'Boards' so obviously have internet access. Please check correct ways to train puppies before inflicting any more stress on the poor little thing. Remember, you have taken a little puppy away from his/her litter mates and mother to put into a lonely utility room. The puppy is stressed.

annascott, please watch your tone when replying. If you disagree with a poster, either report the post or reply with constructive comments only.

ManannanMacLir

It sounds like crate training is the best option and if he's in our room I'll hear him cry when he needs the loo during the night (I hope!) and can wake up and put him out. I just want to do what's best for the little fella! All that bloody bad advice from people that have had loads of dogs over the years!

tk123

check out jebtools.ie for crates - I have the the XL crate for my retriever pup. A word of warning though - the XL will not be big enough for a fully grown lab - they say you should get a crate that will be big enough for an adult dog but I already have bigger ones and wanted to save some space! If you get a crate that's too big the pup may use one end as a toilet anyways.

kylith

ManannanMacLir wrote: »

It sounds like crate training is the best option and if he's in our room I'll hear him cry when he needs the loo during the night (I hope!) and can wake up and put him out. I just want to do what's best for the little fella! All that bloody bad advice from people that have had loads of dogs over the years!

That's an excellent plan.

having him in your room does mean that he'll be used to being in there, but again it's like a human baby; after a while you move them from your room to their own one (with a pup I'd move the crate to the landing, then the bottom of the stairs, then to whatever room), once your calm and consistent he'll soon learn that that's where he sleeps and, tbh, he'll probably see the crate more as his bedroom than your room.

You do get people with some very dodgy views, which are based on how dogs were seen up until fairly recently - open the door and let them out to exercise themselves, give them a kick or a smack when they misbehave, 'dominance' training, that kind of thing. Generally if someone starts to talk about your dog trying to be dominant of you or wanting to be pack leader it's safe to ignore them; the research that was based on was done on wolves, a different species, in an unnatural, unrelated group. It is not applicable to dogs, or even to wolves.

ManannanMacLir

It really looks I naively put my faith in people I thought knew all about dogs. I'll look into a crate straight away and get up with him if he needs to go.

ekevosu

tk123 wrote: »

check out jebtools.ie for crates - I have the the XL crate for my retriever pup. A word of warning though - the XL will not be big enough for a fully grown lab - they say you should get a crate that will be big enough for an adult dog but I already have bigger ones and wanted to save some space! If you get a crate that's too big the pup may use one end as a toilet anyways.

You can get a big adult crate and then just block off a portion of it to make it smaller and unblock as needed as the pup gets bigger.

borderlinemeath

ManannanMacLir wrote: »

It really looks I naively put my faith in people I thought knew all about dogs. I'll look into a crate straight away and get up with him if he needs to go.

People who 'have had dogs for years' may think they know it all, but have never updated their training methods. There's huge strides made in dog training methods in the past couple of decades alone. 25 odd years ago our family dog had a choke chain, because it was either a collar and a lead (that he pulled on) or a choke chain to choke the dog into submission and give up pulling. There were no such thing as body harnesses, halti collars, front harnesses etc and barely a couple of pet shops within a 10 mile radius, nor was animal behaviour studied the way it is now. It was frighten the dog into submission or let the dog run riot.

Thankfully there's loads of research done into positive reinforcement methods of training, from house training, to walking, to recall/commands etc.

Have a look at some of the links on this page for some great training methods for puppies and older dogs.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/

Mo60

annascott wrote: »

Your lack of common sense is appalling. Of course you can harm the puppy. Would you shake a baby or hit it on the head too? Please do not hit your puppy! You can do terrible damage. You are using 'Boards' so obviously have internet access. Please check correct ways to train puppies before inflicting any more stress on the poor little thing. Remember, you have taken a little puppy away from his/her litter mates and mother to put into a lonely utility room. The puppy is stressed.

I think the OP already realises that they made a mistake in their previous actions and did not post on here to be chastised.

I hope they have taken on board the previous good advice given here, and have a good and loving relationship with their new pet.

ManannanMacLir

Thanks to everyone who gave advice. I have learned what I did was wrong, I'll totally adjust my training. I'm just glad it was only one morning before I realised. I'll go with the crate and come back here with any further questions. Although the smacks were not that heard do you still think a trip to the vet is needed? He's due back in the vet next week for his last booster.

loveisdivine

The advice given here is all very good so I wont echo that. I will say however that it sounds like you should probably get doing some research on all aspects of doggy care. Don't just rely on what friends say. Consult the internet and when puppy is old enough get into some classes.

I'm not trying to scold you, but it does come across that perhaps your knowledge of dogs isn't the best. Ideally research should be done prior to getting a puppy but you're past that now, so make an extra effort to really get to know the breed you have.

It will benefit both you and pup no end.

ManannanMacLir

I had researched before getting him, unfortunately I just researched by asking the wrong people! I called out to the local pound before we got him to see what they had there but very few dogs and they were pretty old. The woman working there said classes are a waste of time and that a dog should just be trained by their owner. Was she wrong?

Once I saw what I did was wrong my girlfriend and I have spent the day researching the correct methods.

Nody

The classes is to help the dog to socalize as much as it's about you bonding with it; the training itself is only a tool to do it.

kylith

Puppy classes are a great idea, they'll help with some training, and the pup will learn how to interact with other dogs in an appropriate manner. Undersocialised dogs can go two ways: either they are overjoyed to see other dogs and race over to them, get all in their face, and get told off as a result (which can lead to fear), or they are afraid of all other dogs and react with aggression because they have no idea how to interact properly.

Milly33

Okey im sorry but giving a pup a few small smacks is not going to damage him that much. I know I am asking for it now . I doubt you have damaged him long term. Fine walloping the dog, giving it a full whack is completely not acceptable a little smack on the snout I cant see the problem with. Hope you get on good with the puppy training it is so important to train them while they are young just like anything else really

brrabus

<snip> Please use the report function if you have a problem with a post thanks.

The Sweeper

ManannanMacLir wrote: »

The woman working there said classes are a waste of time and that a dog should just be trained by their owner. Was she wrong?

Good training classes teach you how to train your dog, and meantime they let you socialise your dog - but they are only one part of the whole range of socialisation you should be conducting.

However, you can learn 'the wrong thing' at classes, so try to get a recommendation for a class before signing up. Ask on here, ask locally, ask the folks running the class if you can speak to someone else who attends, so on.

I'll give you an example - you can use a long leash to help train your dog with recall. The first class trainer who asked me to buy a long lead taught me to hold it at the same time as the short lead. She also taught me to pull the dog in by the longer lead by maintaining regular pressure on the lead, and I fold it in my hands while walking towards him and calling him. <--- This was complete crap.

At the new class, I met a woman who worked as a ranger and who owned a multiple award-winning agility dog. When this woman saw me using my long lead as a 'leash', her first words were 'Jesus Christ!' and she called me to one side.

She taught me that I should attach the long lead to my dog's collar, and attach his short lead too. Then I should drop the long lead and completely forget about it. I should work my dog on his short leash until he was ready to be released. When releasing him, as far as he and I were concerned, he was off-leash. The long lead was nothing but a 20-ft insurance policy that would allow me a far higher chance of restraining him if he were to bolt. I had a good 20-ft chance to step on the long leash if he decided he didn't want to work with me any more, or if he got distracted and took off. It was a major breakthrough, and one that I would have never achieved in the previous class.

keno-daytrader

Milly33 wrote: »

Okey im sorry but giving a pup a few small smacks is not going to damage him that much. I know I am asking for it now . I doubt you have damaged him long term. Fine walloping the dog, giving it a full whack is completely not acceptable a little smack on the snout I cant see the problem with. Hope you get on good with the puppy training it is so important to train them while they are young just like anything else really

A smack on the snout isnt harmless, can lead to fear of hands over time.

People often are shocked and wonder why the dog bit their childs hand. Well its been trained over time that a hand coming towards their face can mean pain/discomfort, and a dogs instinct is to snap/bite when faced with fear or pain.

Its common sense, sadly many people are lacking this basic skill.

OldNotWIse

9 week old puppy...

15-20 smacks....

The mind boggles :eek: Who told you this was an effective training technique? Positive reinforcement is the best technique afaik.