Car Clamped - Max stay Query

Naos

Morning all,

Woke up to a lovely surprise of my car being clamped!

Looking for advice here - will pay later to get it removed but am going to appeal based on the following:

Clamping Sign:

Max stay 3 hours from 7am to 1am Mon to Sun. No clamping outside of these hours.

Car Observed: 04:10
Car Clamped: 07:13

Now my understanding of the sign is that I can clamp FROM 7am for up to 3 hours, which would mean 10am.

The manager at APCOA stated that my parking time started at 4am when the vehicle was observed and so I exceed my max stay 3 hours later.

Who's in the right?

Anan1

I think you are. According to the sign, the 3 hour period does not include the period from 04.10 to 06.59. I'd be telling that manager that you'll be claiming for car rental and quoting their name if they don't remove the clamp immediately and FOC.

mickdw

I would take from that sign that parking before 7am was not subject to clamping. Clearly the 3 hour time limit should then only start At 7 too but those scumbags are obviously taking the piss there. They do a run around at 4 am and clamp anyone who is still there at 7. Disgraceful.
I would remove the clamp as appealing can be a waste of time.

Anan1

mickdw wrote: »

I would take from that sign that parking before 7am was not subject to clamping. Clearly the 3 hour time limit should then only start At 7 too but those scumbags are obviously taking the piss there. They do a run around at 4 am and clamp anyone who is still there at 7. Disgraceful.
I would remove the clamp as appealing can be a waste of time.

And let that manager off the hook? The sign is quite clear, the manager hasn't a leg to stand on.

guttenberg

I wouldn't pay OP. Their sign implies that the 3 hour time limit only kicks in at 7am. They are chancing their arm here. As said threaten to bill them for car rental if they don't remove it ASAP.

Drummerboy08

I just love the smell of two stroke in the morning.........

I think youre right OP.

Anan1

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I just love the smell of two stroke in the morning.........

Seriously, you guys are always giving out about clampers, you come across a chance to win and now you want to throw it away?

Stheno

Had you paid for parking from 7am?

ba_barabus

Anan1 wrote: »

Seriously, you guys are always giving out about clampers, you come across a chance to win and now you want to throw it away?

It depends what the OP wants.

Quick and easy or make them suffer for a change.

Tbh given its a car park which most likely has cameras and OP has rang them to remove it, I think I'll be billing them for a rental.

Naos

Thanks for the replies so far!

I had called the manager this morning and explained this over and over, that the sign states it's from 7AM therefore I can stay until 10am.

He wouldn't listen at all, kept saying my car was parked at 4:13am and so it exceed it's stay.

He said I would have to appeal and that it would take up to 21 days. I take it then they have got authority to have it removed?

Naos

Stheno wrote: »

Had you paid for parking from 7am?

No, it's residential parking and not a paid system.

ba_barabus wrote: »

It depends what the OP wants.

Quick and easy or make them suffer for a change.

Tbh given its a car park which most likely has cameras and OP has rang them to remove it, I think I'll be billing them for a rental.

What I want is to have the clamp removed asap so I can continue about my day

ba_barabus

Naos wrote: »

I take it then they have got authority to have it removed?

Don't pay then and definitely don't pay for an 'internal' appeal.

They have the authority to remove it.

Anan1

ba_barabus wrote: »

It depends what the OP wants.

Quick and easy or make them suffer for a change.

My way is both. Cutting the clamp off lets that manager write the OP off as 'only a scumbag' and completely avoid responsibility for their own actions. Plus, it's hassle for the OP. A phone call gets the clamp off, gets the boot in at the manager and saves the next person from being wrongly clamped. It's win win win.

ba_barabus

Naos wrote: »

What I want is to have the clamp removed asap so I can continue about my day

Well quick and easy is to cut the lock or get a mechanic friend to drop the suspension so the clamp happens to fall off.

Or ring the manager, as for his name and tell him you are billing him for a rental until such time as they sort the issue in your favour.

Corkbah

Naos wrote: »

Thanks for the replies so far!

I had called the manager this morning and explained this over and over, that the sign states it's from 7AM therefore I can stay until 10am.

He wouldn't listen at all, kept saying my car was parked at 4:13am and so it exceed it's stay.

He said I would have to appeal and that it would take up to 21 days. I take it then they have got authority to have it removed?

have you asked the clampers for proof you were there at 4.10am ... did they take pics of the car or is it their word against yours .... you could say you left at 5 and returned at 6.30 ....which would appear as though the car was not moved when in reality it was (or could have been)

ba_barabus

Anan1 wrote: »

A phone call gets the clamp off, gets the boot in at the manager and saves the next person from being wrongly clamped. It's win win win.

I'd have to agree. I personally don't like the idea of cutting one off and your way you get to keep the moral high ground. But its up to the OP to decide what suits them.

Anan1

Practicalities aside, I can't see how anyone who dislikes clampers could resist that phone call.

ba_barabus

Anan1 wrote: »

Practicalities aside, I can't see how anyone who dislikes clampers could resist that phone call.

Can OP record it with an app in case it gets funny?

mickdw

Anan1 wrote: »

And let that manager off the hook? The sign is quite clear, the manager hasn't a leg to stand on.

Yes but it's rather naive to think that just because you are in the right that the (somewhat internal) appeal process will find in your favour. So in my opinion, if the op had the stomach for taking them on and threatening them with court proceedings etc, then by all means pay them, appeal and keep at it until you win, otherwise just take it off and know you are in the right.

Anan1

mickdw wrote: »

Yes but it's rather naive to think that just because you are in the right that the (somewhat internal) appeal process will find in your favour. So in my opinion, if the op had the stomach for taking them on and threatening them with court proceedings etc, then by all means pay them, appeal and keep at it until you win, otherwise just take it off and know you are in the right.

There's no need to pay them. Done right, a two minute phone call will have that clamp off.

Stark

Whatever you do, don't pay the money and go the appeals route. I've been there with APCOA, all you'll get is a PFO 21 days later. Once they have your money, you're not getting it back even if you're in the right. The manager has the authority to tell APCOA to remove the clamp.

derry

You recieved a notice which states the fee for removal of the clamp is €xx euros .
A notice is not contract and has no contractual legal force .
So if you get a mechanic to lift car up get the suspension in a way the clamp fall off then there is no issue you did not require their services at the fee they demanded for the removal of the clamp .Better still if you mechanical do it yourself cheaper that way .
removing the clamp without damaging is is not doing anything illegal .Cutting the lock however might be different as there is damage to property.Then it your defense you never signed any contract to allow some baboon to clamp your car .

Derry

No Pants

I'm with Anan here. You have a pic of the sign and I'm going to assume that whatever payment or arrangements you have to make to be there at all have been made. Don't pay anything, go about your day with taxis/buses whatever, keep all receipts and send them a bill for it all at the end of the week. If they don't respond, then I would go to a solicitor.

There's no chance they could remove the clamp when you're at work, let three hours pass and then clamp it again, is there?

Anan1

OP - the key to this phone call is making the manager understand that their failure to remove the clamp now will result in their having to explain to their superiors why they cost the company money by wilfully disregarding their own rules as clearly displayed on the sign.

No Pants

Who is APCOA acting on behalf of?

Naos

Rang the manager there, ridiculously unhelpful.

He just kept saying he had no authority to have the clamp removed without payment, refused to put me on to a superior and insisted the car was clamped legally.

Stated they would not accept any bills for rentals etc.

@NoPants - I'd assume they'll have to inform me when it's being removed and if so, I'm a short distance from work so it'd be fine

hawkwind23

thats shocking!
can you not call the guards or a local TD?
seems like bullying to me and you cant do without your car at short notice.
for me id be on to the media , TD , guards , solicitor etc , wouldnt be having a bar of it

Naos

Was thinking of popping into the local Garda Station and asking them for their stance on it - no idea if I'd be wasting their time or not though?

bumper234

Naos wrote: »

Was thinking of popping into the local Garda Station and asking them for their stance on it - no idea if I'd be wasting their time or not though?

Think they will say it's a civil matter and you should pay/appeal.

hawkwind23

Guard is a public servant!
get in there and demand help with someone illegally tampering with your car!

Naos

Anan1 wrote: »

OP - the key to this phone call is making the manager understand that their failure to remove the clamp now will result in their having to explain to their superiors why they cost the company money by wilfully disregarding their own rules as clearly displayed on the sign.

Anan1 wrote: »

There's no need to pay them. Done right, a two minute phone call will have that clamp off.

I wish that were true but genuinely, it's a "computer says no" type scenario.

He cannot comprehend the signposting and is adamant he has no authority to remove the clamp.

bumper234

Naos wrote: »

I wish that were true but genuinely, it's a "computer says no" type scenario.

He cannot comprehend the signposting and is adamant he has no authority to remove the clamp.

At this stage i would inform him that i am removing the clamp and that i will be holding it as a down payment on the €300 that they owe you for the inconvenience caused.

MarkR

APCOA PARKING IRELAND LTD.
Unit 11 Millbank Business Park
Lower Road / Lucan Village
County Dublin
Phone: +353 1 6516900
Fax: +353 1 6516909
www.apcoa.ie

http://www.argos.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10152&catalogId=14551&langId=111&searchTerms=wheel+clamp&authToken=

Seriously though, did you try the appeals page on their website? Sounds like bull crap to me.

http://www.apcoa.ie/services/services/appeal-clamp-or-fine.html

Bits_n_Bobs

Has anyone actually cut off one of these clamps and what was the outcome? Keep reading people on boards saying 'chop it off' or whatever, but has anyone done it??

JustAddWater

Naos wrote: »

Car Observed: 04:10
Car Clamped: 07:13

Have you asked them what they were doing "observing" your car during a period of no clamping?

They either clamp between 1am and 7am or they dont?
If they don't, they have no right to "observe" SFA and I'd be asking them what they were doing out "observing" at that hour?

Stark

No Pants wrote: »

Who is APCOA acting on behalf of?

That's a good point. I assumed the OP was ringing the manager of the apartment complex/shopping centre/whatever. You won't get anywhere with the APCOA manager, all they care about is getting their money. Whoever contracted APCOA in has the authority to tell APCOA to take the clamp off.

No Pants

JustAddWater wrote: »

Have you asked them what they were doing "observing" your car during a period of no clamping?

They either clamp between 1am and 7am or they dont?
If they don't, they have no right to "observe" SFA and I'd be asking them what they were doing out "observing" at that hour?

Public place. They can observe all they like at any time that they like.

A solicitor's letter is the next step then. Or can the Small Claims Court be engaged?

If APCOA are contracted by the management company of a building, I'd be letting them know that their agent is behaving this way and get the solicitor to copy them on the letter.

mickdw

As I expected. It's all well and good for anan1 to be telling the Op to just make the phone call and this little misunderstanding will be cleared up. Scumbags are not rational and if you go the route of having them remove it free- be prepared for a fight.
I fully agree that you are in the right but ideally you need the most Hassle free method of removal.
Also, without wishing to be inflammatory, Anan1 has in the past in general taken a pro clamper stance. I don't see the clampers as reasonable people while Anan1 does. The course of action going forward would vary depending on whether you thought they were reasonable or not.
I think from the phone call, you are finding out that they are not so straight forward to deal with.

frozenfrozen

Wouldn't the fact that they shouldn't have clamped the car make it not a civil matter since they're holding his car against his will.. with nothing to legally stand on... Seems like they've placed their clamp in your possession which you can only assume is for destruction, so take it off and flush it down one of their toilets

Cienciano

Their mantra is never remove the clamp without payment. No matter how wrong they are. If you want to play the clampers game, you'll have to go down the appeals road.
Anyone want to guess what the odds of the OP getting his €120 back? Very slim. If they won't admit they're in the wrong now, what makes anyone think their appeals process will be any different?

Anan1

Naos wrote: »

Rang the manager there, ridiculously unhelpful.

He just kept saying he had no authority to have the clamp removed without payment, refused to put me on to a superior and insisted the car was clamped legally.

Stated they would not accept any bills for rentals etc.

@NoPants - I'd assume they'll have to inform me when it's being removed and if so, I'm a short distance from work so it'd be fine

Have you tried ringing a few different numbers, see if you can't get on to someone a bit less stupid?

mickdw wrote: »

Also, without wishing to be inflammatory, Anan1 has in the past in general taken a pro clamper stance. I don't see the clampers as reasonable people while Anan1 does. The course of action going forward would vary depending on whether you thought they were reasonable or not.

Of course you wish to be inflammatory. For someone who professes such disdain for clampers, you're strangely eager to let them off the hook.

mitosis

The sign says no clamping before 7 am. You were clamped after 7 am. Whatever about anything else, you were clearly not clamped during the no clamp period

Naos

mitosis wrote: »

The sign says no clamping before 7 am. You were clamped after 7 am. Whatever about anything else, you were clearly not clamped during the no clamp period

Can you elaborate on this and include the 'max stay of 3 hours' into your arguement please?

Anan1

mitosis wrote: »

The sign says no clamping before 7 am. You were clamped after 7 am. Whatever about anything else, you were clearly not clamped during the no clamp period

Given how obviously wrong APCOA is, I'd rent a car and make them pay just to teach them a lesson. I know it's hassle, but for me this'd be one of those times when it's worth it.

Naos

Rang the management company, they've sided with APCOA and stated that:

The clamping starts at 7am so I'd need to move my car at 7am as it was parked before that.
If I arrived at 7am, then I would have 3 hours before my car would be clamped.

This is seriously p1ssing me off.

mitosis

Naos wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this and include the 'max stay of 3 hours' into your arguement please?

You have a maximum stay of three hours. If you overstay between 0100 and 0700 you will not be clamped, but once you cross the line at 0700 and have been more than three hours you get clamped

No Pants

mitosis wrote: »

You have a maximum stay of three hours. If you overstay between 0100 and 0700 you will not be clamped, but once you cross the line at 0700 and have been more than three hours you get clamped

That's not what the sign says.

Anan1

Naos wrote: »

Rang the management company, they've sided with APCOA and stated that:

The clamping starts at 7am so I'd need to move my car at 7am as it was parked before that.
If I arrived at 7am, then I would have 3 hours before my car would be clamped.

This is seriously p1ssing me off.

That's nonsense. The sign states 'Max stay 3 hours from 7am', you were clamped after 13 minutes. Honestly, I'd be renting that car. Sometimes people need to pay to learn.

Uriel.

No Pants wrote: »

That's not what the sign says.

Agreed. The sign clearly states 3 hours from 7am to 1am. It doesn't say max stay 3 hours per 24 hour period but no clamping takes place outside of 7am to 1am.

They haven't a leg to stand on in a legal sense.

However, that doesn't solve the problem the OP has.

Can the clampers/complex management have the OPs car removed/towed? What happens if the OP leaves the car there while making arrangements (solicitor etc..)

OP I hope you have taken photos of the car etc... and have time stamps for when the clamp was actually fitted to the car.

ba_barabus

Naos wrote: »

Rang the management company, they've sided with APCOA and stated that:

The clamping starts at 7am so I'd need to move my car at 7am as it was parked before that.
If I arrived at 7am, then I would have 3 hours before my car would be clamped.

This is seriously p1ssing me off.

You have 3 options: pay and appeal, remove it, rent a car and bill them

NewApproach

Uriel. wrote: »

Agreed. The sign clearly states 3 hours from 7am to 1am. It doesn't say max stay 3 hours per 24 hour period but no clamping takes place outside of 7am to 1am.

They haven't a leg to stand on in a legal sense.

However, that doesn't solve the problem the OP has.

Can the clampers/complex management have the OPs car removed/towed? What happens if the OP leaves the car there while making arrangements (solicitor etc..)

OP I hope you have taken photos of the car etc... and have time stamps for when the clamp was actually fitted to the car.

They haven't a leg to stand on in a legal sense in any case. What they do would never stand up in court, hence why they never let it go that far.

They are utter scum.