The Troubles II?

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

That is exactly the point- he is showing the exact same psychology that Seamus Heaney showed during the fleg protests. Its a dishonest and utterly condescending one that does no one any good. The fact that you cannot see the game he is playing was my point but carry on.

He is showing he as an alternative opinion, to the normal narrative, nothing else

woodoo

junder wrote: »

I didn't write the articule, and Malachi is hardly known for being a stanch unionist, so why not discuss what he has written.

For those that know of him here is a little info about him

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_O'Doherty

What about Loyalists and Paisley and 1966 have you nothing to say on that.

Karl Stein

junder wrote: »

this was a unionist family, fleeing thier home,

Typical. Trying to equalize the unionist/loyalist experience of the troubles with nationalist/catholic.

The blame for the troubles lies squarely at the feet of your crowd. Unionists failed to respect the minority. The facts speak for themselves.

Look at the wide scale destruction here.

There is no equivalent.

OCorcrainn

junder wrote: »

In the early part of the programme showing a film clip taken during the 1960's was shown in it you saw a hillman Imp type car loaded up with the family's possessions, what ever furniture they could get out was strapped to the roof as they fled their house before they where burnt out, thing is, and this goes against the usual republican narrative, this was a unionist family, fleeing thier home, how did I know this, it was down to the union flag they had flying from thier car as they fled. It was only a 5 second clip and was only shown to give context to the story of The soldier telling his story of Belfast Descending into chaos.

Have you thought about the fact that they were unionists who quite possibly might have been Catholic but were burnt out anyway by a loyalist mob?

junder

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Have you thought about the fact that they were unionists who quite possibly might have been Catholic but were burnt out anyway by a loyalist mob?

Have you thought that they where Protestant unionists burnt out by a republican mob?

junder

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Typical. Trying to equalize the unionist/loyalist experience of the troubles with nationalist/catholic.

The blame for the troubles lies squarely at the feet of your crowd. Unionists failed to respect the minority. The facts speak for themselves.

Look at the wide scale destruction here.

There is no equivalent.

Think you will find that I have not blamed anybody for starting the troubles only offered alternatives views to usual republican narrative

OCorcrainn

junder wrote: »

Have you thought that they where Protestant unionists burnt out by a republican mob?

You seem to have a habit of using fallacious reasoning.

Let me put your argumentative skills into perspective for you.

So by using your logic the below is true:

"If all Woolies are Tollies and all Tollies are Wamples then all Wamples are definitely Woolies."

OCorcrainn

junder wrote: »

Think you will find that I have not blamed anybody for starting the troubles only offered alternatives views to usual republican narrative

So you describe and dismiss the actual historical and verifiable truth of what happened in Belfast in 1969 as just a "republican narrative".

Wow.

junder

OCorcrainn wrote: »

So you describe and dismiss the actual historical and verifiable truth of what happened in Belfast in 1969 as just a "republican narrative".

Wow.

Again I didn't write the articule so it's Malachi who is the one dismissing the 'usual republican narrative' by offering himself up as a eye witness, why not challenge his articule, something you have avoided so far. He has a blogging site so you could challanging him directly, would be interesting to see his response to you

Larbre34

Any localised rise in more extreme unionism/loyalism is the last sting of a dying wasp. Literally W.A.S.P.

The writing is on the wall regarding the demographics. In 20 years none of it will matter.

COYW

junder wrote: »

Have you thought that they where Protestant unionists burnt out by a republican mob?

Protestant people in the republican heartlands, South Armagh for definite, were prisoners in the own communities. Nobody seems to mention these people; yet another case of republicans trying to re-write history when it comes to N.I.

Crooked Jack

COYW wrote: »

Protestant people in the republican heartlands, South Armagh for definite, were prisoners in the own communities. Nobody seems to mention these people; yet another case of republicans trying to re-write history when it comes to N.I.

Utter drivel. Have a read of Bandit Country and you'll find a number of protestant church leaders who say by and large the protestant community never faced any sort of widescale discrimination in south Armagh.
Prisoners in their own community? Dont be preposterous. Id say you're spending too much time on Willie Frazer's blog.

golfball37

COYW wrote: »

Protestant people in the republican heartlands, South Armagh for definite, were prisoners in the own communities. Nobody seems to mention these people; yet another case of republicans trying to re-write history when it comes to N.I.

As they were in parts of the Irish Free State too when it was created.

guinnessdrinker

junder wrote: »

Malachi o'doherty has an interesting take on the beginnings of the troubles


http://malachiodoherty.com/2009/08/12/the-pogrom-myth/

Well written article but it has got nothing to do with the beginnings of the troubles.

guttenberg

Sadly it's all kicking off in Belfast this evening. A march against internment(both sides of the divide suffered from this policy) somehow offends the OO and various loyalist factions. It appears their protests have managed to get it rerouted by the police, civil unrest ensued, vehicles on fire, water cannon deployed, any goodwill from the G8 summit has been completely destroyed, yet if you look at the facebook pages of the groups involved, this is somehow a great result for them? the mind boggles.

ardmacha

Protestant people in the republican heartlands, South Armagh for definite, were prisoners in the own communities.

Nonsense. They are members of the general community.
for instance http://creggan.armagh.anglican.org/journalist.html

Such a statement could only imply a wish to disinform on your part or else gross ignorance.

Karl Stein

guttenberg wrote: »

(both sides of the divide suffered from this policy)

More bull**** attempts to equalize the experience of Catholics to those who actually, you know, caused the troubles.

What they did not include [on lists of people to be interned] was a single Loyalist. Although the UVF had begun the killing and bombing, this organisation was left untouched, as were other violent Loyalist satellite organisations such as Tara, the Shankill Defenders Association and the Ulster Protestant Volunteers. It is known that Faulkner was urged by the British to include a few Protestants in the trawl but he refused.

[URL="What they did not include was a single Loyalist. Although the UVF had begun the killing and bombing, this organisation was left untouched, as were other violent Loyalist satellite organisations such as Tara, the Shankill Defenders Association and the Ulster Protestant Volunteers. It is known that Faulkner was urged by the British to include a few Protestants in the trawl but he refused."

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/intern/sum.htm

Get your facts straight.

getzls

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Are the DUP and the loyalists going to start the Troubles II like they did the first time in 1966?



What do people think

Think you talk ****e.

Worth a warning to post that.

guttenberg

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

More bull**** attempts to equalize the experience of Catholics to those who actually, you know, caused the troubles.



Get your facts straight.

Using your link, third paragraph states:

Internment refers to the arrest and detention without trial of people suspected of being members of illegal paramilitary groups. The policy of internment had been used a number of times during Northern Ireland's history. It was reintroduced on Monday 9 August 1971 and continued in use until Friday 5 December 1975. During this period a total of 1,981 people were detained; 1,874 were Catholic / Republican, while 107 were Protestant / Loyalist.

Interment was predominately used against Catholics yes, I never said it didn't, but some Protestants also suffered from it.

guinnessdrinker

guttenberg wrote: »

Using your link, third paragraph states:


Interment was predominately used against Catholics yes, I never said it didn't, but some Protestants also suffered from it.

Yeah using that statistic 95% of internees were catholic. Not very one sided at all. I wonder were some of the protestant internees nationalists or republican sympathisers even?

COYW

ardmacha wrote: »

Nonsense. They are members of the general community.
for instance http://creggan.armagh.anglican.org/journalist.html

Such a statement could only imply a wish to disinform on your part or else gross ignorance.

Once more, if you don't subscribe to the republican mantra you are ignorant, ill-informed etc. The nationalist/republican community are the only people who were ever or can be wronged in N.I. :rolleyes:

ardmacha

Once more, if you don't subscribe to the republican mantra you are ignorant, ill-informed etc.

Not at all. You are obviously misinformed or ignorant as you posted an incorrect statement.
Be man enough to admit a mistake, if that is what it was.