Wild Mushrooms - encourage growth in fields

kk09

Every year about now we get some wild mushrooms growing, but some years plentyful and other very few. Very few out so for this year, and weather seems fair right the last week.

So we want to encouage growth. Anyone suggest the best way to do this as I have no idea how to go about it?

Thanks

Birdnuts

Horse manure - permanent pasture for horses is the best place for finding field mushrooms

redzerologhlen

kk09 wrote: »

Every year about now we get some wild mushrooms growing, but some years plentyful and other very few. Very few out so for this year, and weather seems fair right the last week.

So we want to encouage growth. Anyone suggest the best way to do this as I have no idea how to go about it?

Thanks

Got my first one today, could be filling a basket in the morning

kk09

Birdnuts wrote: »

Horse manure - permanent pasture for horses is the best place for finding field mushrooms

Not really looking for them. Want to make them more plentiful in the fields we have like other years. Thanks anyway.

marizpan

The use of artificial fert destroys mushroom spores and old fashioned manure spread on the fields encourage them.
So due to current agriculture practices its hard to pick them by the bucket load anymore.

redzerologhlen

marizpan wrote: »

The use of artificial fert destroys mushroom spores and old fashioned manure spread on the fields encourage them.
So due to current agriculture practices its hard to pick them by the bucket load anymore.

Makes sense, most of them seem to appear around old cow pats.

Rho b

Mushrooms like lots of straw/organic matter in order to grow spores in - therefore horse manure is best as Birdnuts suggested. Artificial fertilizer especially high in Nitrogen which kills fungi.

arctictree

Had a walk through our fields yesterday and picked loads of wild mushrooms. Seems to be a good year for them. Especially on any ground that has been disturbed.

pedigree 6

Yes. They are good this year here as well.
I think what you need for them is a long dry spell followed by a bit of rain and then the heat in the ground combined with the moisture (but not too much moisture) allows them to pop up and spore.

Not sure i'd go along with thinking on old leys. I've ground here that was ploughed and reseeded 2 years ago with mushrooms and I wouldn't be shy with fertiliser either. I think it's just when they spore, if the spore lands on the ground and conditions are right, that it will grow.

ganmo

had a ring of mushrooms in a field a few weeks ago, proper eating ones, never saw them in that area at all

pedigree 6

ganmo wrote: »

had a ring of mushrooms in a field a few weeks ago, proper eating ones, never saw them in that area at all

Are they in a ring? Never really observed/minded that before.
You do need to be careful when picking mushrooms to know the difference in them. But if you grew up with them you probably know what they are.

ganmo

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Are they in a ring? Never really observed/minded that before.
You do need to be careful when picking mushrooms to know the difference in them. But if you grew up with them you probably know what they are.

ya it was unusual alright, about 3ft diameter. picked a few of em but there was a bit of added protein...

Danzy

Haven't seen them in years, not since we were milking, the odd one maybe but not the shopping bag full from a field I remember in the 80s.

Love to know if dropping in some spores in to the slurry before agitating and spreading would help restore them.

Danzy

Are they still growin where you are.

TomOnBoard

One of the most important factors in the encouragement of mushroom growth in fields/woodlands, is the enhancement of already- successful growing environments.

This involves, among other things, trying to maintain the growing medium (eg not making large- scale chemical changes through use of artificial fertilizer) and enhancing collection methods.

In respect of the former, the advent of Net Nitrate and 10-10-20 and its widespread application across Ireland led to the decimation of the mushroom-laden fields of my youth. There's not a lot we can do to reverse that, regrettably, other than allowing better more knowledgeable practices to prevail and for Old Father Time to do his job.

In respect of the latter, if you are collecting mushrooms ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE plastic bags. Apart from the environmental implications of dropping the bag in the field, the mushies are imprisoned and start to rot in such bags as soon as you put them in. Instead, collect them in an open- weave container such as a willow basket which will result in:

a) temperature and air control around the cap will be maximised and they will not sweat and will last much longer;
b) wildlife and soil that was already on the mush will get a chance to drop off and fall through the weave;
c) within a small area, don;t harvest all the shrooms you see- Only harvest 50% (and only the larger ones) and walk on- that way, no one area gets denuded if the underlying mycelium has been impact by your collection;
d) most important of all, as you move around, bending and thumping around, you will be shaking out the spores from the cap which will propagate the mushroom into the future.

Indeed, as far as I know, the French (who know a thing or two about mushrooms) have a regulation or 3 about the type of container that you can use when you are foraging for shrooms as well as the size of the cap that you can collect / sell.

pedigree 6

It's said on this thread that if you spread chemical fertiliser you won't have mushrooms.
I'm not organic and I spread fertiliser and I had a lot of mushrooms in the fields this year.
The only thing that might be in my favour is I spread fym and seemingly mushrooms love fym.
Also they seem to do well in fields that have a bit of marly soil and or fields that got limed in the year before.
They also need a long hot dry spell and the ground dry underneath for the fungi to spread underground and then a sudden wet spell for them to emerge and the ground needs to be consistently 16c.

More here but it mentions the fertiliser and I don't find that to be true at all.
http://www.thompson-morgan.com/static-images/tandm/pdfs/culturals/MUSHROOM_white%20cap.pdf

More here also
http://www.first-nature.com/fungi/agaricus-campestris.php

Also a soil ph of 6 to 6.7 seems optimal
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/3/1/91.full.pdf

TomOnBoard

pedigree 6 wrote: »

It's said on this thread that if you spread chemical fertiliser you won't have mushrooms.
I'm not organic and I spread fertiliser and I had a lot of mushrooms in the fields this year.
The only thing that might be in my favour is I spread fym and seemingly mushrooms love fym.
Also they seem to do well in fields that have a bit of marly soil and or fields that got limed in the year before.
They also need a long hot dry spell and the ground dry underneath for the fungi to spread underground and then a sudden wet spell for them to emerge and the ground needs to be consistently 16c.

More here but it mentions the fertiliser and I don't find that to be true at all.
http://www.thompson-morgan.com/static-images/tandm/pdfs/culturals/MUSHROOM_white%20cap.pdf

More here also
http://www.first-nature.com/fungi/agaricus-campestris.php

Also a soil ph of 6 to 6.7 seems optimal
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/3/1/91.full.pdf

Hi Pedigree...

I think the main issue referred to earlier (certainly in my post) was the effect of the use of the bagged ferts such as 10-10-20 and Net Nitrate.

There is absolutely no doubt in my view that the spreading of FYM is hugely beneficial to fungi in general, and as a result, to Mushrooms. The FYM helps to enhance the fungal environment as it provides both a foundation and a scaffold on which funghi will grow.

And for some reason, if the FYM can involve more horsey and strawey stuff, rather than mainly cow slurry/ poo, the funghi seem to prefer it.

Your point about marly soils and previously limed fields is extremely relevant- The pH of the soil appears to be very important. Indeed mushroom growers who use peat- based substrates use significant amounts of Gypsum on those substrates to enourage their crops. That tells me that you're unlikely to find most mushrooms in bogs, although no doubt some genetic mutations have resulted in specific species being well adapted to acid environments.

Your other points about the need for long dry spells followed by sudden humidity are very well made, as evidenced by the massive mushroom hunts that take place in South East France in September/October each year, when the rains fall following 3 months of high- temperature drought.

Mountainsandh

TomonBoard you have pretty much said it all about harvesting in France, one extra bit I remember from growing up in France and going mushroom harvesting with my parents is to never just pull a mushroom up, but to slice it with a good knife at the base. Otherwise your secret spot won't be plentiful the next year !

We harvested mostly Chanterelles (Girolles), and the odd Morille, maybe it's different for field mushrooms since the stalks are thinner, and a field soil is likely to be ploughed at some stage anyway. Not sure.

pedigree 6

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Hi Pedigree...

I think the main issue referred to earlier (certainly in my post) was the effect of the use of the bagged ferts such as 10-10-20 and Net Nitrate.

There is absolutely no doubt in my view that the spreading of FYM is hugely beneficial to fungi in general, and as a result, to Mushrooms. The FYM helps to enhance the fungal environment as it provides both a foundation and a scaffold on which funghi will grow.

And for some reason, if the FYM can involve more horsey and strawey stuff, rather than mainly cow slurry/ poo, the funghi seem to prefer it.

Your point about marly soils and previously limed fields is extremely relevant- The pH of the soil appears to be very important. Indeed mushroom growers who use peat- based substrates use significant amounts of Gypsum on those substrates to enourage their crops. That tells me that you're unlikely to find most mushrooms in bogs, although no doubt some genetic mutations have resulted in specific species being well adapted to acid environments.

Your other points about the need for long dry spells followed by sudden humidity are very well made, as evidenced by the massive mushroom hunts that take place in South East France in September/October each year, when the rains fall following 3 months of high- temperature drought.

If you start to understand how agaricus is grown commercially. I think we can start to understand how agaricus campestris and arvensis grows naturally. I already mentioned the ph of the soil that it requires. Then we see the fym and decaying grass that it lives off. But agaricus campestris will just as happily live on cow and sheep dung as horse dung.
Agaricus arvensis gets it's name horse mushroom correct me if i'm wrong from it's tendencies to grow in pastures with horses or fields spread with horse dung and some people call these two mushrooms just by the term field mushrooms.
Anyway Agaricus needs high carbon dioxide levels in the soils to encourage mycelium growth. How do you get that? By flooding the land with water. So all that rain in February and march and even april I think. But anyway we had a lot of rainfall this spring. So now after this Mycelium growth needs soil temperatures of 16 to 20 degrees C. So we now have both conditions waterlogged soil deep in the ground (not at surface) and warm/hot conditions reaching this soil layer and the mycelium grows. Now the hot conditions continue and the soil dries out stopping the mycelium from growing anymore and it just stays that way. It needs a shock and more moisture to get it to the fruiting stage.
We got some heavy downpoors this year after the dry spell and this is what the mycelium needed to supply the shock (cool the ground) and enough moisture reaching the mycelium to let it go into the fruiting stage.

TomOnBoard

Mountainsandh wrote: »

TomonBoard you have pretty much said it all about harvesting in France, one extra bit I remember from growing up in France and going mushroom harvesting with my parents is to never just pull a mushroom up, but to slice it with a good knife at the base. Otherwise your secret spot won't be plentiful the next year !

We harvested mostly Chanterelles (Girolles), and the odd Morille, maybe it's different for field mushrooms since the stalks are thinner, and a field soil is likely to be ploughed at some stage anyway. Not sure.

Ooooh! Noooooooooooooo! You've mentioned that which must not be discussed outside of deeply secreted meeting places deep in the forest... Ssssh! Should the 'shrooms be cut or can they be pulled?

History has not yet written the number of of intra-regional wars that were waged in France based on the differing views that have existed in relation to this subject. While enjoying a lovely Cotes de Rhone on the terrace outside a Bar in Provence of a September evening, if you hear a huge row develop inside between the men at the bar (because that is the way it is), it is not because some man has stolen some other man's wife and his children; it is much more likely to have resulted from someone's suggested plan to pull les champignons next month, rather than slice them at their butts.

Mountainsandh

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Ooooh! Noooooooooooooo! You've mentioned that which must not be discussed outside of deeply secreted meeting places deep in the forest... Ssssh! Should the 'shrooms be cut or can they be pulled?

History has not yet written the number of of intra-regional wars that were waged in France based on the differing views that have existed in relation to this subject. While enjoying a lovely Cotes de Rhone on the terrace outside a Bar in Provence of a September evening, if you hear a huge row develop inside between the men at the bar (because that is the way it is), it is not because some man has stolen some other man's wife and his children; it is much more likely to have resulted from someone's suggested plan to pull les champignons next month, rather than slice them at their butts.

Weeelll...

We proudly sliced, and found our plentiful supply of Chanterelles there for us the next year. So there !

(*some inaudible grumble about them amateurs just pulling perfectly good mushrooms*)

We picked mushrooms in the Allier, and I remember my Dad parking miles away from the actual spot we were going to, so as not reveal our "cache"'s whereabouts. (for fear some "pullers" might spot us and ruin it all)

pedigree 6

Right to summarise what we need for mushroom growth in fields.

First you need spores.
Then we need grass fields.
Protein source, dung applied in the autumn before.
A wet spring to wash the dung and spores into the soil.
Roughly 2 months (not sure of lenght of time probably a lot more) of 16c soil temps (hard to get in this country).
A soil ph of 6.5 to 7 but even in a long dry summer the ph will increase temporarily.
Then to change the fungi from the vegetative stage (growing underground) to the fruiting stage a sharp shock.
This comes in the form of rainfall falling on the soil cooling it very quickly and supplying much needed added moisture to fruit.

I think that's most of it.

A look at commercial growing here for anyone that's interested.
http://mushroomgrowers.org.nz/mushroom-growing-process.php

downwiththatsor

Found a few today in the paddocks.
Hopefully more to come ��

Danzy

downwiththatsor wrote: »

Found a few today in the paddocks.
Hopefully more to come ��

I can almost smell them in the Pan.

Must have a gawk at the old spots for them.

pedigree 6

downwiththatsor wrote: »

Found a few today in the paddocks.
Hopefully more to come ��

It's the time of the year and they should come up now with the rain after the long hot dry spell.

Esel

Any magic tricks?

Chuchote

TomOnBoard wrote: »

In respect of the latter, if you are collecting mushrooms ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE plastic bags.

So true. Same is true of mushrooms sold in plastic containers. I usually take them out, give them a wipe and store them in a delph bowl. If I leave them in the plastic container, within a few days they start to go slimy. In the bowl, they gradually dry out.

In relation to knowing your mushrooms and being cautious about what and where you pick them, there was a tragic case in France a few years ago of a pharmacist who was a renowned expert, widely consulted by those who wished to be sure that they had picked mushrooms that were safe to eat, not poisonous ones.

One autumn he invited his friends to dinner for a feast of seasonal mushroom treats. They all loved the delicious dishes celebrating the wild mushrooms he'd picked in all the secret places he knew so well. After dinner the plates were put down for the dog to lick while everyone enjoyed some local liqueurs.

But after a while the dog was obviously in pain and began to bite at its flank and cry and whimper, roaming back and forth. Everyone looked nervously at the dog and the plates licked clean. Some people said they didn't feel that well.

"Look, I know these mushrooms were fine," their host said. "I picked them myself, and I identified each one without any doubt."

But they still looked nervous, shifting in their seats… so the mushroom expert said perhaps they should get checked, just to be sure. They all piled into cars and raced to the nearest hospital, where the doctors shook their heads and insisted on painfully stomach-pumping everyone and keeping them in overnight.

Next morning they all drove back to the pharmacist's house, where his dog had just produced a lovely litter of pups.

.......

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