Irish Team for World Championships

unichall

With the deadline for points to count towards how many each nation can field coming up (august 15th) with Ireland being 14th am I right in saying we qualify 6 riders? How many have we brought before 4?

And if it is six what would our team be?

Of course I could have all of the above wrong and if so forget I ever mentioned it :-)

RobFowl

I know for the nations qualifying 9 they have to have the same amount scoring world tour points. AFAIK we only have 3 scoring points so even if we qualify 6 we'll only get 3.

Inquitus

RobFowl wrote: »

I know for the nations qualifying 9 they have to have the same amount scoring world tour points. AFAIK we only have 3 scoring points so even if we qualify 6 we'll only get 3.

This is correct as hinted at in this article

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/conor-mcconvey-says-worlds-selection-difficult-because-of-crash-philip-deignans-form/

We only have 3 scoring riders and will only get 3 spots.

wav1

3 it is AFAIK.The usual suspects i would think.Nico,Dan,and Deignan I would say.If the circuit is as hard as they say its a circuit to suit Deignan and particularly Martin.Roche will probably get the nod also.No one really else on the radar at that level,unless Lavery can pull off something at Cofidis.They say its the hardest Worlds since Hinault won in the foot hills of the alps in 1980.I think only a handful finished the pro race that day.

Henlars67

RobFowl wrote: »

I know for the nations qualifying 9 they have to have the same amount scoring world tour points. AFAIK we only have 3 scoring points so even if we qualify 6 we'll only get 3.

If you qualify 9 you need to have 9 riders who scored points, however if you qualify 9 and have less than 6 scoring riders, you can still have a 6 man team.

It doesn't matter though, as from what I can tell we only qualify 3.


We're 14th, the top 10 nations qualify 9

happytramp

Henlars67 wrote: »

If you qualify 9 you need to have 9 riders who scored points, however if you qualify 9 and have less than 6 scoring riders, you can still have a 6 man team.

It doesn't matter though, as from what I can tell we only qualify 3.


We're 14th, the top 10 nations qualify 9

So is the rule basically that 1st-10th qualify 9, everyone else qualifies 6 unless they have less than 6 riders scoring points in which case they qualify as many as they do have?

Also do you have actually score points or just be legible to score points? If it's a case of just being legible then we'd be able to field a team of 5 right?

RobFowl

happytramp wrote: »

So is the rule basically that 1st-10th qualify 9, everyone else qualifies 6 unless they have less than 6 riders scoring points in which case they qualify as many as they do have?

Also do you have actually score points or just be legible to score points? If it's a case of just being legible then we'd be able to field a team of 5 right?

It's a sliding scale from 9 down to 1 depending on rankings and other criteria.
You can only qualify as many riders as you have scoring points on the world tour rankings though (you can qualify riders via the other tour rankings but only if you haven't qualified via the world tour and we have)

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

It's a sliding scale from 9 down to 1 depending on rankings and other criteria.
You can only qualify as many riders as you have scoring points on the world tour rankings though (you can qualify riders via the other tour rankings but only if you haven't qualified via the world tour and we have)

Why can't someone give Pat a call - I'm sure he can do something about the rules :rolleyes:

happytramp

RobFowl wrote: »

It's a sliding scale from 9 down to 1 depending on rankings and other criteria.
You can only qualify as many riders as you have scoring points on the world tour rankings though (you can qualify riders via the other tour rankings but only if you haven't qualified via the world tour and we have)

USA are lamenting the fact that they only have a squad of six and they're 12th. As it stands right now we're 14th but only have two riders who have scored points (Martin/Roche) So how does that land us with three spots?

spoke2cun

I Love it Beasty.

RobFowl

happytramp wrote: »

USA are lamenting the fact that they only have a squad of six and they're 12th. As it stands right now we're 14th but only have two riders who have scored points (Martin/Roche) So how does that land us with three spots?

Deignan has scored points too I thought?

RobFowl

happytramp wrote: »

USA are lamenting the fact that they only have a squad of six and they're 12th. As it stands right now we're 14th but only have two riders who have scored points (Martin/Roche) So how does that land us with three spots?

You're right but checked and we qualify 3 under this rule

"a rider among the first 100 in the individual classification of the UCI WorldTour classification on 15 August 2013: each nation may enter 5 riders, with 3 to start"

happytramp

RobFowl wrote: »

You're right but checked and we qualify 3 under this rule

"a rider among the first 100 in the individual classification of the UCI WorldTour classification on 15 August 2013: each nation may enter 5 riders, with 3 to start"

Ah, I see. So any nation with a rider in the top 100 can enter 3. I get it.

riparooo

It will be only three as there is no way Ireland can get into top 10 for nations UCI points before next week.

Deignan is on Tour of Utah this week so should be interesting to see if his good form continues.

RobFowl

riparooo wrote: »

It will be only three as there is no way Ireland can get into top 10 for nations UCI points before next week.

Deignan is on Tour of Utah this week so should be interesting to see if his good form continues.

Martyn Irvine at Tour of Portugal and Philip Lavery at Vuelta de Burgos but these both Europe tour rather than world tour events.

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

Martyn Irvine at Tour of Portugal and Philip Lavery at Vuelta de Burgos but these both Europe tour rather than world tour events.

And Ireland are only ranked 23rd in the European standings. However if they could get Ireland up into the top 20 it would increase the number of places available in the U23 worlds

unichall

The reason I asked the question in the OP is because of this article:

http://m.cyclingnews.com/news/worldtour-rankings-determine-worlds-road-race-allocations

In it there is this quote about GB being eligible to field 9 but only having 8 scoring means they are an 8 man team but they indicate that columbia and slovakia will both field 6 man teams despite having less than that scoring points so I wondered if Ireland were in a similar position

"Great Britain, with WorldTour leader Christopher Froome, was third in the nations rankings, but with eight riders in the individual standings they will only be able to start eight, while Colombia, with just four riders in the rankings, may start six under the UCI's rules.Similarly, Slovakia looks set to field six even though only Peter Sagan and Peter Velits earned WorldTour points"

Beasty

unichall wrote: »

columbia and slovakia will both field 6 man teams despite having less than that scoring points so I wondered if Ireland were in a similar position

Both are in the top 10 of the World Team rankings

The 10 first countries in UCI WorldTour classification by nation on 15 August 2013: each country may enter 14 riders, with 9 to start. However, a nation with fewer than 9 riders classified in the individual UCI WorldTour ranking on 15 August 2013 shall start the number of riders that are classified. A nation with fewer than 6 riders classified in the UCI WorldTour ranking will, nonetheless, start 6 riders

Captain Havoc

AnotherView

unichall wrote: »

The reason I asked the question in the OP is because of this article:

http://m.cyclingnews.com/news/worldtour-rankings-determine-worlds-road-race-allocations

In it there is this quote about GB being eligible to field 9 but only having 8 scoring means they are an 8 man team but they indicate that columbia and slovakia will both field 6 man teams despite having less than that scoring points so I wondered if Ireland were in a similar position

"Great Britain, with WorldTour leader Christopher Froome, was third in the nations rankings, but with eight riders in the individual standings they will only be able to start eight, while Colombia, with just four riders in the rankings, may start six under the UCI's rules.Similarly, Slovakia looks set to field six even though only Peter Sagan and Peter Velits earned WorldTour points"

If there ever was a reason to point to the UCi as unfit for purpose and inneed of top down redesign then the points system ( and world ranking) isdefinitely one ...( along with obscure rules, archaic bureaucracy, lack of a credible record in the fightagainst doping, and total oblivion toliving in the 21st century !!! )

Surely the objective should be to strengthen teams from smaller countriesespecially if they have a few very talented riders thus giving these riders a chanceto gain victory ( a positive weighting if you will given that cycling is a teamsport)...but this system favourscountries with alot of strong riders this IMO giving them a better chance ofvictory .......

The number of riders wouldn't matter if cycling was an individual sport....I wonder if the UCI grasp this as their rules and points system does notsupport this basic fact

On a brighter note I think Dan, Nico and Philip (D) would probably have abetter chance on a tough course .....Theyhave staying power

buffalo

I find it odd that the WC points are allocated per country, despite the pro-sport being run per sponsor. There's no incentive for sponsors to give the 'lesser' countries opportunities to score points, and therefore get more riders into the WC. Why not give every country equal billing?

Beasty

buffalo wrote: »

Why not give every country equal billing?

170+ federations - that means less than 2 riders per country. Of course you could make it only, say, the top 20 nations qualify and are allowed to send full teams of 9 - that would certainly lower the overall standard and would often leave countries like Ireland with no representation at all (particularly if some places are allocated based on performances in the Continental Tours)

The current system is aimed at trying to give the small countries a chance where they may otherwise not get one - hence the overall World rankings get the highest allocation, but a nation that focusses on the Continental tours also get a look-in

No system is going to be perfect, but I don't see a major problem with the current way of carving this up given the way the sport is run at the Pro level

Bottom line is Ireland will get it's 3 best riders there, and those 3 are probably the only ones that deserve to be there based on their performances this year

leftism

The climb up to Fiesole is a tough ba$%ard... Have done a lot of rides up there, as my girlfriend's family live right at the base of the climb on Via Gabrielle D'Annunzio. The peleton will ride right past their window. It starts off easy enough at around 4-5% for the first 2km. But it progressively steepens as you go on. Couple of switchbacks on the final section and then a long ramp up to the old hospital and into the town centre. Its about 7-8% for the final 1.5km, if memory serves. And they're gonna do it 10 times?!?! :eek:

Spectacular view of the city from the top though. All the roads have been resurfaced and are ready to go! They've been complaining about the state of those roads for years; all they had to do was get the UCI Worlds on there and like magic, everything gets fixed... Italy for ya!

I really fancy our 3 boys at this Worlds. All are fine climbers and should be able to hang in with main contenders throughout. The question will be, who works for who... Logically, with the season Dan has had, if Deignan and Nico can shelter him for as long as possible, then he's got to be in with a real shout!

One thing is for sure, this will be a spectacular race... Wish i was there for it!

AnotherView

leftism wrote: »

I really fancy our 3 boys at this Worlds. All are fine climbers and should be able to hang in with main contenders throughout. The question will be, who works for who... Logically, with the season Dan has had, if Deignan and Nico can shelter him for as long as possible, then he's got to be in with a real shout!

One thing is for sure, this will be a spectacular race... Wish i was there for it!

Can't you go and stay with your girlfriend's family.....the only reason I could ever see to visit the in-laws..i.e.. the race runs outside their window

Dan will be the main man I am sure unless he is not well, etc and like you I think the Irish boys could do very well

leftism

AnotherView wrote: »

Can't you go and stay with your girlfriend's family.....the only reason I could ever see to visit the in-laws..i.e.. the race runs outside their window

Would if i could, but i'm working in the States for the next 6 months. Sucks!

unichall

Allocations are out and Ireland have 4 riders as opposed to 3 from previous years.

Who goes?

Dan Martin
Nico Roche
Philip Deignan
Matt Brammier

The 1st three I think are a given, anyone else who might go instead of Brammier, to be fair as irish champ he prob deserves to go

AnotherView

unichall wrote: »

Allocations are out and Ireland have 4 riders as opposed to 3 from previous years.

Who goes?

Dan Martin
Nico Roche
Philip Deignan
Matt Brammier

The 1st three I think are a given, anyone else who might go instead of Brammier, to be fair as irish champ he prob deserves to go

I agree

wav1

Has a certain Mr Bennett given the selectors a timely reminder after his win yesterday?or has Lavery done enough in his short stint at Cofidis for either of them to nail down the final place.My money is on Lavery.

morana

wav1 wrote: »

Has a certain Mr Bennett given the selectors a timely reminder after his win yesterday?or has Lavery done enough in his short stint at Cofidis for either of them to nail down the final place.My money is on Lavery.

its great isnt it competition for places. The first 3 have to be nailed on.

McLaughlin done a great ride last year so he could be in the mix as well. I think it will come down to the best climber of the others but it should be between Bramm,Lavery,Bennett. Was Laverys recent 3rd better than Sams win yest?

wav1

morana wrote: »

its great isnt it competition for places. The first 3 have to be nailed on.

McLaughlin done a great ride last year so he could be in the mix as well. I think it will come down to the best climber of the others but it should be between Bramm,Lavery,Bennett. Was Laverys recent 3rd better than Sams win yest?

Yes its great to see so many in the mix.Dont know whether the 3rd by Lavery was better than Bennets win but in both cases it def puts them in the mix.Thats seven mames being mooted now.Again great to see.
1987 when Roche won we had a team of 5.Probably last time it was that big.

buffalo

Has Brammeier done anything of note lately?

ROK ON

buffalo wrote: »

Has Brammeier done anything of note lately?

No.

12 sprocket

Any information on U23 or Junior or Womens selections

gordongekko

buffalo wrote: »

Has Brammeier done anything of note lately?

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15305/Brammeier-in-negotiations-over-2014-contract-hoping-to-be-selected-for-world-road-race-championship.aspx

morana

12 sprocket wrote: »

Any information on U23 or Junior or Womens selections

there is no U23's they didnt qualify. Nothing about the ladies either.

wav1

12 sprocket wrote: »

Any information on U23 or Junior or Womens selections

As morana says no U23s.3 Jun slots to be filled and dont know re woman.AFAIK there will be 2 x U23s in the TT.

Malari

leftism wrote: »

The climb up to Fiesole is a tough ba$%ard... Have done a lot of rides up there, as my girlfriend's family live right at the base of the climb on Via Gabrielle D'Annunzio. The peleton will ride right past their window. It starts off easy enough at around 4-5% for the first 2km. But it progressively steepens as you go on. Couple of switchbacks on the final section and then a long ramp up to the old hospital and into the town centre. Its about 7-8% for the final 1.5km, if memory serves. And they're gonna do it 10 times?!?! :eek:

Spectacular view of the city from the top though. All the roads have been resurfaced and are ready to go! They've been complaining about the state of those roads for years; all they had to do was get the UCI Worlds on there and like magic, everything gets fixed... Italy for ya!

I really fancy our 3 boys at this Worlds. All are fine climbers and should be able to hang in with main contenders throughout. The question will be, who works for who... Logically, with the season Dan has had, if Deignan and Nico can shelter him for as long as possible, then he's got to be in with a real shout!

One thing is for sure, this will be a spectacular race... Wish i was there for it!

This sounds good! I've been trying to decide the best hill to watch from and I think the steeper one is ticketed?!

REBELSAFC

Team named....Nico,Dan,Deignan plus one other yet to be decided

http://www.rte.ie/sport/cycling/2013/0907/472845-martin-roche-and-deignan-on-ireland-worlds-team/

Glass Prison 1214

REBELSAFC wrote: »

Team named....Nico,Dan,Deignan plus one other yet to be decided

http://www.rte.ie/sport/cycling/2013/0907/472845-martin-roche-and-deignan-on-ireland-worlds-team/

Roche, Martin and Deignan? who could have predicted that? :eek:

RobFowl

buffalo wrote: »

Has Brammeier done anything of note lately?

He was third in a pro Kermesse in Belgium a few days ago...

http://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/sam-bennett-and-matt-brammeier-both-make-podium-from-breakaway-in-belgian-pro-race/

Beasty

4th rider due to be named at lunchtime

Did Bennett do enough yesterday to get the slot?

Will Lavery make the cut?

Is it Matt's turn this time?

Chips Lovell

It sure is close. All three have been riding well.

AnotherView

Beasty wrote: »

4th rider due to be named at lunchtime

Did Bennett do enough yesterday to get the slot?

Will Lavery make the cut?

Is it Matt's turn this time?

While I think Bennett and Lavery are more talented riders and are definitely ones for the future. However I think the parcours needs a strong domestique and I think Matt is more suited for the job

Beasty

Bennett said after the Ras that he thought the course was too hilly for him, and it may be in his best interests if he's overlooked this year

Still, he is absolutely flying at present

AGC

Would love to see Lavery get it. He really does seem to have a go and has done well so far with Cofidis

What is the situation with the time trial?

riparooo

I do think the approach here is a little off. Given that the selectors know who the opposition is I would have thought they sort of their race tactics around a rider or two first and then allocate the final two places to riders you will support the skills and strengths of the leader(s).

Hate to point it out but at the moment you have three riders selected who can point at significant races they have won or being strong going uphill.

I mean is Nico or Philip going to happily agree to get Dan's bottles given the form both of them have shown recently.

AnotherView

The Italians have picked Nibali as their man and then picked riders to support him ( not necessarily the best riders but the best support)


However I do think Nico and Philip D will do support

This is why I would pick Matt as he is and has been a good domestique and is very strong

Junior

AGC wrote: »

Would love to see Lavery get it. He really does seem to have a go and has done well so far with Cofidis

What is the situation with the time trial?

I don't think Lavery is the most team minded individual that there is. It's turning a little silly now, Sunday, No Monday, No Tuesday - it's doesn't look good.

AGC

Junior wrote: »

I don't think Lavery is the most team minded individual that there is. It's turning a little silly now, Sunday, No Monday, No Tuesday - it's doesn't look good.

Yeah you're probably right. if they do go that route

Beasty

Junior wrote: »

It's turning a little silly now, Sunday, No Monday, No Tuesday - it's doesn't look good.

I think they said last night the decision was made but they wanted to inform the riders first. Hence the announcement is due at 12 ....

gordongekko

riparooo wrote: »

I do think the approach here is a little off. Given that the selectors know who the opposition is I would have thought they sort of their race tactics around a rider or two first and then allocate the final two places to riders you will support the skills and strengths of the leader(s).

Hate to point it out but at the moment you have three riders selected who can point at significant races they have won or being strong going uphill.

I mean is Nico or Philip going to happily agree to get Dan's bottles given the form both of them have shown recently.

what if Dan is sick on the day. Is it not better to have a plan b in case he has a bad day.