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Eric Eoin Marques Extradition (Freedom Hosting) - See Mod warning in first post

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  • 04-08-2013 11:27pm
    #1
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,119 ✭✭✭✭


    Link to story,
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/fbi-bids-to-extradite-largest-childporn-dealer-on-planet-29469402.html

    FBI bids to extradite 'largest child-porn dealer on planet.

    Eric seems to be running Freedom hosting one of the biggest hosts in the dark (hidden) web.

    As he has not being arrested under Irish law, or has he even committed a crime here do we have to hand him over to the FBI? He is an Irish citizen, should he not be prosecuted here if it's found that he's broken the law.

    I think the article in the independent doesn't really get to grips with what Freedom Hosting is about and the talk if tor and onion would go over a lot of people's heads. The Pedo headline is an attention grabber but it's taking from the larger story

    How do you see this playing out, have we another snowden on our hands? Should we be protecting him? His company is Irish registered as far as I'm aware.

    A little more info on freedom hosting
    https://blog.torproject.org/blog/hidden-services-current-events-and-freedom-hosting


    Mod:

    Please note that Eric Eoin Marques was unsuccessful in his petition to have the DPP prosecute him here, he has not been charged with any offence by the DPP and he has not been convicted in any court.

    He is entitled to be regarded as innocent until proved guilty. Likewise, other people and companies who have not been convicted are entitled to be regarded as innocent until proved guilty.

    Although the charges against him may be mentioned and discussed, it is not acceptable that this man should be spoken about in terms of having committed a crime.

    Posts which do not observe the above will have to be deleted, redacted or amended as necessary.

    This is not intended to stifle discussion but posters are asked to consider their words carefully.


«1345

Comments

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    #2
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    ,hand him over to the FBI and hope they waterboard the bastard to death.


  • Options
    #3
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,119 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ken wrote: »
    ,hand him over to the FBI and hope they waterboard the bastard to death.

    Should we not be doing it though? Why hand him over? He's lived here since he's 5


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    #4
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    If they put in the leg work they should get to nail him.


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    #5
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,119 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    They should be nailing the owners of the websites, shutting down the host won't do much to stop kiddy porn might upset things for a few weeks but the websites will be back up and running shortly even if Eric is locked up. A new host will just pop up.
    The FBI seem to have attacked an Irish based business and broken Irish law. They've also taken data from people who would have used other tor sites which were in no way porn related. We can't allow foreign governments to do that on our soil without permission.
    We make such a big deal about data protection then we allow this.


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    #6
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Link to story,
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/fbi-bids-to-extradite-largest-childporn-dealer-on-planet-29469402.html

    FBI bids to extradite 'largest child-porn dealer on planet.

    Eric seems to be running Freedom hosting one of the biggest hosts in the dark (hidden) web.

    As he has not being arrested under Irish law, or has he even committed a crime here do we have to hand him over to the FBI? He is an Irish citizen, should he not be prosecuted here if it's found that he's broken the law.

    I think the article in the independent doesn't really get to grips with what Freedom Hosting is about and the talk if tor and onion would go over a lot of people's heads. The Pedo headline is an attention grabber but it's taking from the larger story

    How do you see this playing out, have we another snowden on our hands? Should we be protecting him? His company is Irish registered as far as I'm aware.

    A little more info on freedom hosting
    https://blog.torproject.org/blog/hidden-services-current-events-and-freedom-hosting

    He will go through the extradition process, which will involve a hearing in the High Court and in this case an appeal to the Supreme Court. The USA will have to show not only has he broken a criminal law in America but that there is a corresponding offence here. It will be an interesting case, but I would guess it will take a year or more before a decision. He will more than likely spend that time in custody unless he can get bail.


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    #7
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Hence why he was refused bail.


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    #9
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    How much involvement with the content would a "facilitator" have had, and would he necessarily have been aware of its presence?

    The whole point of the deep web is secrecy, I presume. Surely this guy knew that this content was likely to be on his servers, and would have been (easily?) able to find it if it were?

    Obviously if it had never been brought to his attention and he was verifiably unaware of the content, you're into e-commerce territory.


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    #10
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    How much involvement with the content would a "facilitator" have had, and would he necessarily have been aware of its presence?

    The whole point of the deep web is secrecy, I presume. Surely this guy knew that this content was likely to be on his servers, and would have been (easily?) able to find it if it were?

    Obviously if it had never been brought to his attention and he was verifiably unaware of the content, you're into e-commerce territory.

    TOR distributes requests for information across many nodes (the users) therefore making it very difficult to track where information is going to/coming from. The actual content is easily found and accessed in a very similar way to the world wide web. People forget that the world wide web is only a small fraction of the 'internet' as the terms are used interchangeably, if somewhat inaccurately.

    It would have been very easy for him to know what was on his servers.

    Personally I find the entire thing a bit ridiculous, he owned the hosts, I think its a very slippery slope to start holding the host owners responsible for content, even when it's a vile as content that was on FH. Lets not forget it wasn't the only thing FH/Tor was/is used for; some are worse, but some are also of great benefit especially in countries with a lack of free speech.


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    #11
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,119 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Anonymous called out freedom hosting a few times over Lolita City so he was aware it was being hosted by his company.
    Agree with the above though there's freedom at stake and the dark web has its place. FBI want an end to the private internet.
    Silk Road is next in the firing line but there's already a few new upstarts trying the same thing. Think its a case of whack a mole with the FBI.
    I wonder how long before the value of bitcoins takes a hit.


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    #12
    JG009
    Registered Users Posts: 2,482 ✭✭✭JG009


    A lot of people wont know what TOR is. From what little I have read yes its possible he was aware of what sites he was hosting then again maybe he was not. Can they prove he was aware?
    If a clearnet host company had such sites would they be held responsible for their content? Yes/no?

    As for should we hand him over to the FBI - what is he actually being charged with? The FBI have done some messed up stuff themselves, they ran a CP website themselves to catch pedos out. I cant find the link right now but Ill have a looksy.


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    #13
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Would it be easier since he was USA born ?

    and
    The court heard Marques, who has both Irish and US citizenship

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/fbi-name-irishman-as-largest-facilitator-of-child-porn-on-net-29468433.html


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    #14
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,119 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    JG009 wrote: »
    A lot of people wont know what TOR is. From what little I have read yes its possible he was aware of what sites he was hosting then again maybe he was not. Can they prove he was aware?
    If a clearnet host company had such sites would they be held responsible for their content? Yes/no?

    As for should we hand him over to the FBI - what is he actually being charged with? The FBI have done some messed up stuff themselves, they ran a CP website themselves to catch pedos out. I cant find the link right now but Ill have a looksy.

    The FBI didn't run the website, they just kind of cloaked it I think to capture all the user data.
    What they've done with freedom hosting though was infected their servers with a virus that spread it's way to good and bad users of the hosted websites, now that's the FBI maliciously and illegally attacking a European/Irish business, The FBI have broken our laws.
    Is the host responsible for the content? I think lawmakers want them to be, it's easier shut down the hosts rather than going after the criminals who actually run and populate those bad websites. Does shutting down the host do much, no.

    The Gardai shouldn't be snoozing on this and it looks like they are, that irish user data is seriously valuable in catching pedo's here and across europe and they should be working with Eric not letting the yanks drag him away.
    Due to the nature of the sites he hosts, does he know who the users are? Possibly not but he probably knows how to find them.


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    #15
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Hand him over to the fbi, the gardai would probably put the wrong date on the warrant


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    #16
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    The FBI didn't run the website, they just kind of cloaked it I think to capture all the user data. ..

    Looks like they had one of those extra good evenings
    - seems their bit of code looks like it checks its on the right OS, right browser and checks the ip address and MAC address of the pc its run on

    So ...... when the lads in the dominos van pull up and knock on your door, its no good saying it was the exchange student you had staying for the weekend.

    Probably guess the manufacturer

    http://www.coffer.com/mac_find/

    http://pastebin.com/pmGEj9bV

    You'd want to be half-witted if you think you can do stuff anonymously


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    #17
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    Interesting. The first article I saw about this was on the Irish Times and didn't mention anything other than he was called the biggest child porn facilitator in the world.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/irish-man-called-world-s-largest-facilitator-of-child-porn-remanded-1.1488181

    I think it would be incorrect to view him as any sort of champion for Internet freedom rights. he is anything but.

    It seems straightforward enough, if it's correct he's already been called on what was happening. No way he should be protected or supported. He should not just be thrown to the wolves, but seasoned and served on a platter to them.


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    #18
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #19
    asdf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭asdf1234


    Amazing how a headline writer can overpower thousands of minds with one stroke of his pen.


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    #20
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    asdf1234 wrote: »
    Amazing how a headline writer can overpower thousands of minds with one stroke of his pen.
    That's a non-sequitor.


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    #21
    asdf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭asdf1234


    blatantrereg wrote: »
    That's a non-sequitor.

    Really? Without a premise? I must be good.


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    #22
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    asdf1234 wrote: »
    Really? Without a premise? I must be good.
    It's irrelevant. It's true in general that headline writers can do that. Not relevant here - it would be a mistake to sympathise with him for the reasons I've mentioned in my first post on this thread.


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    #23
    asdf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭asdf1234


    blatantrereg wrote: »
    It's irrelevant. It's true in general that headline writers can do that. Not relevant here - it would be a mistake to sympathise with him for the reasons I've mentioned in my first post on this thread.

    Ah sorry, it becomes irrelevant based on your disagreement with its relevance, i'm beginning to understand now. For the reasons you mentioned in your first post on this thread, of course.


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    #24
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    According to RTE news his mother is Irish, he was born in the US but has resided in Ireland since he was 5. Not really a flag of convenience.


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    #25
    welkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭welkin


    Thought he looked the head off Nidge from Love/Hate

    0007b578-642.jpg


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    #26
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,119 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    2 more private services shut down, these guys wiped there servers..


    http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/08/two-providers-of-encrypted-e-mail-shut-down/?_r=0

    "Two Providers of Secure E-Mail Shut Down"

    The worlds got a lot more like 1984 in the last week.


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    #27
    steowel123
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭steowel123


    how can u make comments to waterboard somebody before he has been convicted of a crime he has a us passport because his parents were living in the us at the time he was born a lot of what the papers have printed about finding pics of children are untrue to only thing he done was to trust that people using his servers did so in a legal way


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    #28
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #29
    steowel123
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭steowel123


    would u if u done nothing wrong


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    #30
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    steowel123 wrote: »
    how can u make comments to waterboard somebody before he has been convicted of a crime

    Torturing people after conviction is okay, I take it? :pac:


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    #31
    steowel123
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭steowel123


    LowKeyReturn wrote: »
    Torturing people after conviction is okay, I take it? :pac:

    he hasn't been convicted. Innocent until proven guilty or do we burn him at the stake


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