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Where Will Ireland’s Next Financial Boom Come From?
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04-08-2013 7:12pm#1As someone fairly new to Ireland who spends a lot of time thinking about Ireland, lately I’ve been plagued by one vital question:
“With corporate taxes already set perilously (humiliatingly) low, few natural resources, crippling national debt, what industry or enterprise will foster Ireland’s financial turnaround?”
We say we want to be the best small country for business, but with a capital city sporting an antiquated public water system, mass transit lines that don’t connect (yet), and national connectivity still in its infancy, how do we compete in a way that goes beyond simply holding corporate attention until somebody undercuts us ten years down the road?
As a profoundly creative country, with a history of innovation in the arts, sports, and most recently food, I’d like to think that the boom will come in the form of some new endeavor, a (literal) cottage industry, endemic to Ireland. But what will that be?
MOD EDIT<Snip and infracted for promoting blog>
Cheers,
GK0
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gdkaufmann wrote: »As someone fairly new to Ireland who spends a lot of time thinking about Ireland, lately I’ve been plagued by one vital question:
“With corporate taxes already set perilously (humiliatingly) low, few natural resources, crippling national debt, what industry or enterprise will foster Ireland’s financial turnaround?”
We say we want to be the best small country for business, but with a capital city sporting an antiquated public water system, mass transit lines that don’t connect (yet), and national connectivity still in its infancy, how do we compete in a way that goes beyond simply holding corporate attention until somebody undercuts us ten years down the road?
As a profoundly creative country, with a history of innovation in the arts, sports, and most recently food, I’d like to think that the boom will come in the form of some new endeavor, a (literal) cottage industry, endemic to Ireland. But what will that be?
This is part of a larger post on my blog about modern immigration.
You'll find the full text here:
<snip>
Seriously, I'm not trolling for blog posts, I would really like to know where people see the next boom in Ireland coming from.
Cheers,
GK
I do not really see an economic boom from Ireland in the near future. However, I think the low corporate tax rate is a great thing. Ireland needs to be a tax haven to be globally competitive. Google and Apple did not come to Ireland for the scenery, but because of the low corporate taxes. Not only does this immediately put money back into the economy because they come here and bring their work here, but it also makes Irish students pursue degrees in computer science, information technology, math and sciences, which is what Ireland needs to be competitive in the future, or any nation for that matter. Plus, as an American you understand that Ireland is roughly the size of South Carolina in population and area so they must bring in international companies to remain competitive and they are smart enough to realize it. I say that because they do not have a lot of natural resources at their disposal like the U.S. or Canada so they are smart to become a tax haven and pursue I.T. business. So the tax haven aspect is actually a plus.
So I guess it would come from from the I.T., computer science industry if it did come but I honestly do not see a "boom" anytime soon. However, with that in mind they still have a very high standard of living and really do not need some type of economic renewal to survive.
I have attached a link that shows the direct and strong correlation of a free market and high standard of living.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »I do not really see an economic boom from Ireland in the near future. However, I think the low corporate tax rate is a great thing. Ireland needs to be a tax haven to be globally competitive. Google and Apple did not come to Ireland for the scenery, but because of the low corporate taxes. Not only does this immediately put money back into the economy because they come here and bring their work here, but it also makes Irish students pursue degrees in computer science, information technology, math and sciences, which is what Ireland needs to be competitive in the future, or any nation for that matter. Plus, as an American you understand that Ireland is roughly the size of South Carolina in population and area so they must bring in international companies to remain competitive and they are smart enough to realize it. I say that because they do not have a lot of natural resources at their disposal like the U.S. or Canada so they are smart to become a tax haven and pursue I.T. business. So the tax haven aspect is actually a plus.
So I guess it would come from from the I.T., computer science industry if it did come but I honestly do not see a "boom" anytime soon. However, with that in mind they still have a very high standard of living and really do not need some type of economic renewal to survive.
I have attached a link that shows the direct and strong correlation of a free market and high standard of living.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
See, that's where things fall down for me. Yes, the arrival of those businesses stimulates business and the economy, for a bit. But, overtime they begin to stash more and more of their money out of the country, and they slow down the rates at which they are hiring. And now, 10-12 years on, they are looking to greener/cheaper pastures.
So, Ireland's stimulus only works until someone else undercuts us. It's not sustainable.
And, on the educational front, we may be training more IT workers, etc., but because there are no jobs, most of them leave for other countries as soon as they graduate.
Lastly, you said it yourself, the businesses are here because of the taxes. That's not market control, but government intervention. Ireland is not a free market. Free markets are a myth.0 -
Slightly off topic but I didn't think there were any major shortages in IT work?0
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gdkaufmann wrote: »See, that's where things fall down for me. Yes, the arrival of those businesses stimulates business and the economy, for a bit. But, overtime they begin to stash more and more of their money out of the country, and they slow down the rates at which they are hiring. And now, 10-12 years on, they are looking to greener/cheaper pastures.
So, Ireland's stimulus only works until someone else undercuts us. It's not sustainable.
And, on the educational front, we may be training more IT workers, etc., but because there are no jobs, most of them leave for other countries as soon as they graduate.
Lastly, you said it yourself, the businesses are here because of the taxes. That's not market control, but government intervention. Ireland is not a free market. Free markets are a myth.
The reason the US is upset at Ireland (and other tax havens) for Apple is because they have taken money out of the U.S. Not the other way around. Also, Obama even came out and said that China was not playing fair with their fixed exchange rate because it was too much of an advantage because it is a magnet for corporations. I mean, Apple produces in Asia, holds their financial assets in tax havens in Europe and Asia, and really only designs in California. If the U.S. were smart they would realize we should get corporations like Apple back by allowing them to do all of their business here. Corporations in Ireland are not currently looking for greener pastures, and if they were it would only be for places even more economically free.
I think it is sustainable because when the next big industry arises, they will still want to pursue low corporate taxes. Every industry does.
Most Irish students do not leave the country. That is a clear fact.
A lack of taxes is not government intervention. I think most people would agree a placement of taxes is government intervention. I am not sure how you can say that free markets are a myth. Look at the site I attached. All the countries with free markets would be considered "rich" and the oppressed countries "poor". And the moderate countries are more or less in the middle. To me, that is a direct and strong correlation.
Ireland needs to keep a low corporate tax rate, if foreign and domestic corporations left it would be a catastrophe.0 -
Maybe Fracking. Difficult to see anything immediate though.0
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off shore industarys, they are the only thing left, so ireland needs to have their i s dotted and their t s crossed, unlike the last gov minister who was responsible for corrib.0
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Epluribus, most Irish students don't leave, but many/most graduates do because there are precious few jobs here.
There may be IT jobs, but not like there once were, and many parts of that sector are slowing down.
And, actually a lot of the multinationals are selling their goods from offices based in Ireland, but have structured their banking such that the money actually runs through the Netherlands, and other places without actually touching Irish accounts. The result is that they are now even sheltering money from Ireland, lowering their effective rates here to near zero in some cases.
Now it's not enough to be baed in a tax haven. Apparently, too much is never enough for these guys.
Here's a link to an Irish Times article:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-finances/cantillon-oecd-gives-details-of-tax-sandwich-recipe-1.1469666epluribusunum wrote: »The reason the US is upset at Ireland (and other tax havens) for Apple is because they have taken money out of the U.S. Not the other way around. Also, Obama even came out and said that China was not playing fair with their fixed exchange rate because it was too much of an advantage because it is a magnet for corporations. I mean, Apple produces in Asia, holds their financial assets in tax havens in Europe and Asia, and really only designs in California. If the U.S. were smart they would realize we should get corporations like Apple back by allowing them to do all of their business here. Corporations in Ireland are not currently looking for greener pastures, and if they were it would only be for places even more economically free.
I think it is sustainable because when the next big industry arises, they will still want to pursue low corporate taxes. Every industry does.
Most Irish students do not leave the country. That is a clear fact.
A lack of taxes is not government intervention. I think most people would agree a placement of taxes is government intervention. I am not sure how you can say that free markets are a myth. Look at the site I attached. All the countries with free markets would be considered "rich" and the oppressed countries "poor". And the moderate countries are more or less in the middle. To me, that is a direct and strong correlation.
Ireland needs to keep a low corporate tax rate, if foreign and domestic corporations left it would be a catastrophe.0 -
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gdkaufmann wrote: »Epluribus, most Irish students don't leave, but many/most graduates do because there are precious few jobs here.
There may be IT jobs, but not like there once were, and many parts of that sector are slowing down.
And, actually a lot of the multinationals are selling their goods from offices based Ireland, but have structured their banking such that the money actually runs through the Netherlands, and other places without actually touching Irish accounts. The result is that they are now even sheltering money from Ireland, lowering their effective rates to near zero in some cases.
Here's a link to an Irish Times article:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-finances/cantillon-oecd-gives-details-of-tax-sandwich-recipe-1.1469666
So you think one of the key answers to an Irish economic boom is to increase the corporate tax rate? You said in your first post that it was a humiliating low rate. I would disagree.
I still do not understand how free markets are a myth. Not trying to be condescending, but I would honestly like to hear your opinion.0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »So you think one of the key answers to an Irish economic boom is to increase the corporate tax rate? I would disagree.
I still do not understand how free markets are a myth. Not trying to be condescending, but I would honestly like to hear your opinion.
Epluribus, I don't know that increasing corporate tax rates will help anything, but my original point was that we cannot lower them anymore to attract business, and it's clearly not enough to satisfy these company's endless appetites for money.
There is no such thing as a free market in Ireland, the U.S., or anywhere else that has any sort of trade tariffs, or any government intervention on the markets (like preferntial tax rates, zoning variances, or oil lease waivers).
Trade tariffs and such are in place to level the playing field and make companies artificially competitive. That's not market forces determining the cost of goods. That's market manipulation.
The only truly free markets are places with no laws, and no governmental regulation of trade at all - perhaps a few marginal economies in Africa and Central/South America.0 -
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gdkaufmann wrote: »Epluribus, I don't know that increasing corporate tax rates will help anything, but my original point was that we cannot lower them anymore to attract business, and it's clearly not enough to satisfy these company's endless appetites for money.
There is no such thing as a free market in Ireland, the U.S., or anywhere else that has any sort of trade tariffs, or any government intervention on the markets (like preferntial tax rates, zoning variances, or oil lease waivers).
Trade tariffs and such are in place to level the playing field and make companies artificially competitive. That's not market forces determining the cost of goods. That's market manipulation.
The only truly free markets are places with no laws, and no governmental regulation of trade at all - perhaps a few marginal economies in Africa and Central/South America.
Well obviously they are not 100% free markets, that would be like getting back in a time machine to the days of trading spices. There must be some regulation. If you looked at the website I provided they show the percentage of free market.
But to say that places with no laws are the only places with free economies is ridiculous. Most crime-ridden nations are the most oppressed and corrupt countries. With that logic, you believe that Hong Kong and Bulgaria are equally free- simply not the case.
It is all relative, and the more economically free a country is the better the standard of living. We probably will never agree, but that is my belief.0 -
The next boom will be multifaceted. Growth will come from areas such as welfare[1], orchestras[2] and of course hot air from Noonan that will drive the economy like a rocket[3].
Sources:
[1]http://www.irishtimes.com/news/welfare-keeps-economy-going-says-joan-burton-1.1459503
[2]http://www.joe.ie/entertainment/television/rte-spent-e45000-a-day-on-orchestras-over-six-year-period/
[3]http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2012/0316/314787-noonan/0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »Well obviously they are not 100% free markets, that would be like getting back in a time machine to the days of trading spices. There must be some regulation. If you looked at the website I provided they show the percentage of free market.
But to say that places with no laws are the only places with free economies is ridiculous. Most crime-ridden nations are the most oppressed and corrupt countries. With that logic, you believe that Hong Kong and Bulgaria are equally free- simply not the case.
It is all relative, and the more economically free a country is the better the standard of living. We probably will never agree, but that is my belief.
Yes, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I know that the Heritage Foundation's slavish devotion to the benevolence of "the market" is simply the voice of the corporatist American right working steadily towards its goal of corrupting the American dream from "pursuit of happiness" to "pursuit of cash" for a privileged few.
And, actually you made the point I was trying to make for me:
Yes, the only truly "free" markets in the world are in lawless, oppressed, and corrupt countries. That's the result of a genuinely free market society. The Heritage fiction of the greatness of free markets is a fraud. It's a soundbite and nothing more.0 -
gdkaufmann wrote: »Yes, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I know that the Heritage Foundation's slavish devotion to the benevolence of "the market" is simply the voice of the corporatist American right working steadily towards its goal of corrupting the American dream from "pursuit of happiness" to "pursuit of cash" for a privileged few.
And, actually you made the point I was trying to make for me:
Yes, the only truly "free" markets in the world are in lawless, oppressed, and corrupt countries. That's the result of a genuinely free market society. The Heritage fiction of the greatness of free markets is a fraud. It's a soundbite and nothing more.
So you seriously believe poor, uncivilized, corrupt nations in South America, Africa, and the Middle East are a result of a free market? That could be entertained if they ever had a free civilized market in recent times but they never have. They are way behind the times in nearly every aspect of life and struggle to get things as simple as water, any economic idealogy will fail in those nations. It would not matter if it was 10, 50, 70, or 100 percent free no matter what those nations will fail due to systematic and developmental problems. Their problems are due to a lack of education not a lack of taxation. I have never in my life read such a laughable statement: the problems in the 3rd world nations are a result of them being completely free market economies. You completely ignore the severe lack of education, low literacy rate,mass poverty, low life expectancy, corrupt leaders, dictatorships, and pretty much every social science ever studied by anyone. The most economically free nations like Aussie and Canada are 2 of the most sought out places for immigrants. Why? Because they are free economies with a high standard of living. That is not a coincidence. Let us not forget that meanwhile all those 3rd world nations are oppressed economies.
I did not even know what HF was and had to look it up. I just clicked on the first link. The fact that you honestly believe that conspiracy theory tells me that you are a modern day marxist. Ireland is one of the most far right nations in EU socially and economically so good luck with your conspiracy theorist agenda over there. Now I know why the Mod took down your blog.
My source is completely reputable and is consistent with any other sources available. Plus, it is common sense and can be researched by each respective nation. But that would be a bit inconvenient for your conspiracy theory that free markets are the downfall of humanity.
I am still in utter shock of someone saying a free market is a fraud. Wow.0 -
As a software developer, it never ceases to amaze me that we are sitting on an absolute GOLDMINE of opportunity in software development. It comes down to irish people's ability to communicate, and to empathise with their customers.
This is the key to developing great products, and many irish people do it instinctively. The 'outsourcing' dream hasn't worked for many customers, and they are looking for 'closer to home' software development companies (Europe or USA) - we need to be out there pitching ourselves for this business, emphasising our ability to get on with people. It really is as simple as that!
Also
I read an article in the NY Times recently about healthcare costs in the USA. A man who saved 65k by flying from the USA to Belgium for a hip replacement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/health/for-medical-tourists-simple-math.html?ref=health&_r=0
The USA isn't the only wealthy country with healthcare costs spiraling out of control... and it is possibly the greatest opportunity that the world has ever seen. We could attract these customers from other countries with cheap healthcare, and we will still make a fortune - while simultaneously building out our own health system for ourselves - subsidised by our foreign visitors. Imagine the revenue that could be generated here - plus the knock-on R&D and other medical / pharmaceutical companies that would be drawn into this vortex of prosperity.
Will any of the above happen? Doubtful...0 -
@daveybyrne:
I won't quote your post because I dont like doing that with the longer ones but I agree.
Ireland must look to attract foreign companies to be competitive in the global market. Pharmaceuticals is a large industry and still growing and bringing those companies over to possibly HQ out of Dublin for EU would be fantastic for Ireland. Like you said, wishful thinking but I agree with the principle.
And I agree it would be advantageous to attract people over for healthcare.0 -
Epluribus,epluribusunum wrote: »So you seriously believe poor, uncivilized, corrupt nations in South America, Africa, and the Middle East are a result of a free market? That could be entertained if they ever had a free civilized market in recent times but they never have. They are way behind the times in nearly every aspect of life and struggle to get things as simple as water, any economic idealogy will fail in those nations. It would not matter if it was 10, 50, 70, or 100 percent free no matter what those nations will fail due to systematic and developmental problems. Their problems are due to a lack of education not a lack of taxation. I have never in my life read such a laughable statement: the problems in the 3rd world nations are a result of them being completely free market economies. You completely ignore the severe lack of education, low literacy rate,mass poverty, low life expectancy, corrupt leaders, dictatorships, and pretty much every social science ever studied by anyone. The most economically free nations like Aussie and Canada are 2 of the most sought out places for immigrants. Why? Because they are free economies with a high standard of living. That is not a coincidence. Let us not forget that meanwhile all those 3rd world nations are oppressed economies.
I did not even know what HF was and had to look it up. I just clicked on the first link. The fact that you honestly believe that conspiracy theory tells me that you are a modern day marxist. Ireland is one of the most far right nations in EU socially and economically so good luck with your conspiracy theorist agenda over there. Now I know why the Mod took down your blog.
My source is completely reputable and is consistent with any other sources available. Plus, it is common sense and can be researched by each respective nation. But that would be a bit inconvenient for your conspiracy theory that free markets are the downfall of humanity.
I am still in utter shock of someone saying a free market is a fraud. Wow.
That's pretty cool. You have no idea what (or, more importantly who) the Heritage Foundation is, yet you linked to them in your first post.
Your source that is "completely reputable and is consistent with any other sources available" IS the Heritage Foundation, an American Right Wing organization wit a very specific conservative political agenda.
No, I didn't say anything like every poor and uncivilized country is the result of a free economy. I did say that every truly "free market" economy is a shambles of a society. There is a HUGE distinction.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I am an American who no longer lionizes the word freedom because, as you said in one of your previous posts (in reference to free markets) "there have to be controls".
And that's where it all falls apart for me.
People who talk about freedom with a capital "F" (the by God American kind) don't really mean freedom. They mean freedom with controls. And that brings up the question of who sets the "controls", and that's where you get politics and the grab for power. That's not conspiracy, that's rational fact, and an understanding of human nature.
Those same people trade on the PR & Marketing value of the word "free", but the don't really want "free". They are all for freedom and democracy for everyone right up to the point when the people, upon whom they've bestowed democracy, elect Hamas. And why do the people elect Hamas? Because they keep the lights turned on.
On balance, the people are far more practical than their leaders. I trust the people far more than I trust the politicians whispering in my ear about the glories of freedom and democracy (as they define then).0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »@daveybyrne:
I won't quote your post because I dont like doing that with the longer ones but I agree.
Ireland must look to attract foreign companies to be competitive in the global market. Pharmaceuticals is a large industry and still growing and bringing those companies over to possibly HQ out of Dublin for EU would be fantastic for Ireland. Like you said, wishful thinking but I agree with the principle.
And I agree it would be advantageous to attract people over for healthcare.
I'm still troubled by the notion of basing our economy on attracting foreign business. It's begging for scraps, and always will be. They can always up sticks and move to someplace cheaper place over the horizon. It's not long term sustainable.
I do, however, like davidbyrne's healthcare suggestion, but I fear that Ireland has a looong way to go before it leads any revolution in healthcare. The care here is adequate to good, but certainly doesn't excel.
And I think that over the long haul, the marketing value of "we're cheaper" isn't the sort of thing that drives a revolution in healthcare. People with the ability to travel for their hip replacements (which under the best of circumstances may be 10% of the market) will pay an extra 5% to make sure they have the best possible medical professionals, and don't catch MRSA or some other hospital borne infection.
I'm not saying that Ireland has a MRSA problem, but I'm saying "cheap" is not the best way to sell healthcare, and for the foreseeable future that would be all Ireland has to sell.0 -
gdkaufmann wrote: »Epluribus,
That's pretty cool. You have no idea what (or, more importantly who) the Heritage Foundation is, yet you linked to them in your first post.
Your source that is "completely reputable and is consistent with any other sources available" IS the Heritage Foundation, an American Right Wing organization wit a very specific conservative political agenda.
No, I didn't say anything like every poor and uncivilized country is the result of a free economy. I did say that every truly "free market" economy is a shambles of a society. There is a HUGE distinction.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I am an American who no longer lionizes the word freedom because, as you said in one of your previous posts (in reference to free markets) "there have to be controls".
And that's where it all falls apart for me.
People who talk about freedom with a capital "F" (the by God American kind) don't really mean freedom. They mean freedom with controls. And that brings up the question of who sets the "controls", and that's where you get politics and the grab for power. That's not conspiracy, that's rational fact, and an understanding of human nature.
Those same people trade on the PR & Marketing value of the word "free", but the don't really want "free". They are all for freedom and democracy for everyone right up to the point when the people, upon whom they've bestowed democracy, elect Hamas. And why do the people elect Hamas? Because they keep the lights turned on.
On balance, the people are far more practical than their leaders. I trust the people far more than I trust the politicians whispering in my ear about the glories of freedom and democracy (as they define then).
I was aware of the source I provided, not the conspiracy theory you believe. You do realize that those numbers are backed by any other source right? They just put the chart together to show the correlation.
You are clearly a marxist, conspiracy theorist and anyone who reads your posts will see that.
You are the OP of this thread and all you are doing is trying to make a reputable source I provided fit in with your conspiracy theories. Why are Aussie, Canada, Switzerland, IRL, Singapore, Hong Kong, and the US all have among the highest standard of living? They are the most economically free lands in the world. Meanwhile, in Zimbabwe we see election fraud because they are uncivilized and corrupt. Your comparisons of prosperous nations and 3rd world nations are irresponsible.
I find it funny you say all this right wing propaganda b.s. but you are on the far,far,far left. I expect these uneducated accusations from people with extreme views. Your beliefs are more extreme , just the opposite, than the made up conspiracy theories about the right you believe in.0 -
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Looking at history, how many countries can you name that have industrialised (or attained Western standards of living) entirely via free market policies?epluribusunum wrote: »So you seriously believe poor, uncivilized, corrupt nations in South America, Africa, and the Middle East are a result of a free market? That could be entertained if they ever had a free civilized market in recent times but they never have
Let's look at the latter point. Any list that claims that Singapore is 'free' is obviously flawed. The government of Singapore, like most East Asian economies, is well known for actively intervening in the economy. It makes a mockery of the index when the country's entry notes that "state ownership and involvement in key sectors remain substantial. A government statutory entity, the Central Provident Fund, administers public housing, health care, and various other programs, and public debt is equal to a year’s production for the entire economy"My source is completely reputable and is consistent with any other sources available. Plus, it is common sense and can be researched by each respective nation0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »I was aware of the source I provided, not the conspiracy theory you believe. You do realize that those numbers are backed by any other source right? They just put the chart together to show the correlation.
You are clearly a marxist, conspiracy theorist and anyone who reads your posts will see that.
You are the OP of this thread and all you are doing is trying to make a reputable source I provided fit in with your conspiracy theories. Why are Aussie, Canada, Switzerland, IRL, Singapore, Hong Kong, and the US all have among the highest standard of living? They are the most economically free lands in the world. Meanwhile, in Zimbabwe we see election fraud because they are uncivilized and corrupt. Your comparisons of prosperous nations and 3rd world nations are irresponsible.
I find it funny you say all this right wing propaganda b.s. but you are on the far,far,far left. I expect these uneducated accusations from people with extreme views. Your beliefs are more extreme , just the opposite, than the made up conspiracy theories about the right you believe in.
Are you seriously going to tell me you think there is no election fraud in the U.S.?
You can continue to call me a Marxist, but you've not substantively challenged anything I've said.
And, yes, those countries may be "free", but they are all showing a widening gap between the haves and the have nots. Call me a Marxist, but that is concentrating the power in the hands of the few ( as I claimed was the sole agenda of Heritage and others). That, to me, doesn't sound particularly "free".0 -
Gdkauffmann,
I can't do this anymore. Ridiculous. You are an American acting as if you are the Chief Economic Adviser of IRL. You simply do not know what is good for them and what is not. They are a tax haven for a reason, and a good reason at that. There is a reason they love foreign investment..... Shell, Google, Apple,etc. it benefits them. By the way, IRL's economy is already based off of foreign investment, can you say tourism?0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »Gdkauffmann,
I can't do this anymore. Ridiculous. You are an American acting as if you are the Chief Economic Adviser of IRL. You simply do not know what is good for them and what is not. They are a tax haven for a reason, and a good reason at that. There is a reason they love foreign investment..... Shell, Google, Apple,etc. it benefits them. By the way, IRL's economy is already based off of foreign investment, can you say tourism?
I know foreign investment is good for IRL, but, my point is that that's not long term sustainable. And, tourism is a far more egalitarian source of "investment" than sheltering corporate assets.
More importantly, people paying you for something beautiful for which you've been a faithful steward whilst shaping it into a sustainable industry is a fair bit more honorable than "let's help these rich guys hide their money".0 -
DaveyByrne wrote: »As a software developer, it never ceases to amaze me that we are sitting on an absolute GOLDMINE of opportunity in software development. It comes down to irish people's ability to communicate, and to empathise with their customers.
This. This is our only chance of finding a really valued place in the world. We are mediators by nature and great at empathising with all cultures equally. In a global workplace, we are the perfect project managers.
And, having worked for a multinational IT company in Ireland, the reason companies came here initially is because of the appealing tax rate. The reason they are still here almost 30 years later, and the reason so many newer multinationals have been following them here since, is because of our ability to manage.0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »I do not really see an economic boom from Ireland in the near future. However, I think the low corporate tax rate is a great thing. Ireland needs to be a tax haven to be globally competitive. Google and Apple did not come to Ireland for the scenery, but because of the low corporate taxes. Not only does this immediately put money back into the economy because they come here and bring their work here, but it also makes Irish students pursue degrees in computer science, information technology, math and sciences, which is what Ireland needs to be competitive in the future, or any nation for that matter. Plus, as an American you understand that Ireland is roughly the size of South Carolina in population and area so they must bring in international companies to remain competitive and they are smart enough to realize it. I say that because they do not have a lot of natural resources at their disposal like the U.S. or Canada so they are smart to become a tax haven and pursue I.T. business. So the tax haven aspect is actually a plus.
So I guess it would come from from the I.T., computer science industry if it did come but I honestly do not see a "boom" anytime soon. However, with that in mind they still have a very high standard of living and really do not need some type of economic renewal to survive.
I have attached a link that shows the direct and strong correlation of a free market and high standard of living.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
Corporate tax is low but tax on higher earners is high. This will keep the intelligent buisness men away.0 -
epluribusunum wrote: »I do not really see an economic boom from Ireland in the near future. However, I think the low corporate tax rate is a great thing. Ireland needs to be a tax haven to be globally competitive. Google and Apple did not come to Ireland for the scenery, but because of the low corporate taxes. Not only does this immediately put money back into the economy because they come here and bring their work here, but it also makes Irish students pursue degrees in computer science, information technology, math and sciences, which is what Ireland needs to be competitive in the future, or any nation for that matter. Plus, as an American you understand that Ireland is roughly the size of South Carolina in population and area so they must bring in international companies to remain competitive and they are smart enough to realize it. I say that because they do not have a lot of natural resources at their disposal like the U.S. or Canada so they are smart to become a tax haven and pursue I.T. business. So the tax haven aspect is actually a plus.
So I guess it would come from from the I.T., computer science industry if it did come but I honestly do not see a "boom" anytime soon. However, with that in mind they still have a very high standard of living and really do not need some type of economic renewal to survive.
I have attached a link that shows the direct and strong correlation of a free market and high standard of living.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
Also cannot see an economic boom from Ireland in the near future, or distant for that matter. Just too much dept. A tax system that offers no incentive for innovation, hard work or taking a chance.
Google was a relative latecomer, but believe your are very mistaken if you think Apple and all the other earlier ones came only because of the low corporate tax. Many other countries had similar or even lower.
Although the tax regime was an incentive it was very far from the main reason the various software and hardware companies moved here (the term IT did not exist then). During the last recession in Ireland, due mostly because to the fools we voted into government (in many cases the mentors of today's gang), the rest of the western world was booming.
In the late 80's, we were the only English speaking, if not the only country in the world exporting almost all of our engineering and science graduates.
It was a logical choice as it was the only English speaking country in the world where a plant could be built and have no difficulty getting high quality employees, operators/technicians and engineers.
By the many comments here from folks in the IT industry it seems that the same may not be true today. Personally heard of far too many dropping out of education to work on building sites during the boom.“Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”
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From the banks when they start giving loans over the phone again.0
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Also cannot see an economic boom from Ireland in the near future, or distant for that matter. Just too much dept. A tax system that offers no incentive for innovation, hard work or taking a chance.
Google was a relative latecomer, but believe your are very mistaken if you think Apple and all the other earlier ones came only because of the low corporate tax. Many other countries had similar or even lower.
Although the tax regime was an incentive it was very far from the main reason the various software and hardware companies moved here (the term IT did not exist then). During the last recession in Ireland, due mostly because to the fools we voted into government (in many cases the mentors of today's gang), the rest of the western world was booming.
In the late 80's, we were the only English speaking, if not the only country in the world exporting almost all of our engineering and science graduates.
It was a logical choice as it was the only English speaking country in the world where a plant could be built and have no difficulty getting high quality employees, operators/technicians and engineers.
By the many comments here from folks in the IT industry it seems that the same may not be true today. Personally heard of far too many dropping out of education to work on building sites during the boom.
I never said it was the sole reason foeign companies come. I simply never said that. However, you are mistaken if you believe it is not a huge part of it. And yes, there are other tax havens that is true.
You are overanalyzing my point. I am saying that being a tax haven is an incentive for foreign investment. That is common sense really.0 -
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