Whats the story with this angel craze

black123

Is it just me or is it such a shame that vulnerable people are wasting their money on this scam?

PopePalpatine

Wasting money on scams? How do you think the Vatican became so opulent? :pac:

Sulla Felix

Nature abhors a vacuum.

When the Church became so flagrant in it's disregard for it's flock some of them left. Their heads were emptied of all the Catholic dogma and something had to fill it. If they were near an angel tarot deck, that's what filled it.

Same explanation covers all the bullshít. If someone is walking down Abbey St when they have an epiphany of rejecting the church, there's a 93% chance that the Scientologists will get to them first.

black123

I just hate seeing vulnerable being preyed upon, although this is the basis for most religions. I'm surprised with the huge uptake from today's society, which should be more educated etc..

Akrasia

black123 wrote: »

Is it just me or is it such a shame that vulnerable people are wasting their money on this scam?

that depends. do you mean angel by massive attack or angels by robbie williams?

only one of those is a scam.

black123

Akrasia wrote: »

that depends. do you mean angel by massive attack or angels by robbie williams?

only one of those is a scam.

Very good

kylith

After the sex sandals people went away from the RCC, but they still believe in all the Catholic nonsense and the idea of 'angels' makes some people think that it's pretty much Catholicism without the church.

black123

kylith wrote: »

After the sex sandals people went away from the RCC, but they still believe in all the Catholic nonsense and the idea of 'angels' makes some people think that it's pretty much Catholicism without the church.

Ok that makes sense I just wish that they'd see that there is just one person at the back of it all making a fortune from all this, saying that I considered opening an angel shop ... Make a fortune !!

Galvasean

Part of me really wants to denounce my atheism in a book and make a comfortable living selling all sorts of tat to religious people...

Pherekydes

My SiL is mad into this sh1t. Can hardly pay her mortgage, but spends money going to conferences and meetings.

And don't get me started on those stupid cards...

Nodin

Pherekydes wrote: »

My SiL is mad into this sh1t. Can hardly pay her mortgage, but spends money going to conferences and meetings.

And don't get me started on those stupid cards...

...this the shower that were on the late late a while back?

Geomy

Galvasean wrote: »

Part of me really wants to denounce my atheism in a book and make a comfortable living selling all sorts of tat to religious people...

I hear in America being a praise the lord Pastor is a good career choice. ..

endacl

Ah sure what's the harm in it.....










!Runs away!!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The mother had a couple of decks of angel cards - she really liked them, so hardly a scam.

I'm no beleiver, but I fail to see the difference between her getting enjoment from angel cards and me getting enjoment from a couple of beers.

**** - my barman is scamming me!

Pherekydes

Nodin wrote: »

...this the shower that were on the late late a while back?

I never watch it, so I can't say.

c_man

black123 wrote: »

Is it just me or is it such a shame that vulnerable people are wasting their money on this scam?

They're ba$tards. I was in and out of waiting rooms for chemo/radiotherapy with sick relatives plenty of times and there were always a few notices stuck up offering "Angel Healing" or "Angel Readings" for such low low prices as €50 an hour.

Look I'm no fan of the Catholic church but in fairness, at least they're not milking cash from the sick and dying at their lowest points.

NegativeCreep

I know people who believe in angels and crap but the only evidence I see of it are the pictures they share on facebook :rolleyes:
What's this about meetings and stuff??

Sarky

c_man wrote: »

Look I'm no fan of the Catholic church but in fairness, at least they're not milking cash from the sick and dying at their lowest points.

Pherekydes

http://spirituality.meetup.com/cities/ie/dublin/

Help yourself.

Nodin

Pherekydes wrote: »

http://spirituality.meetup.com/cities/ie/dublin/

Help yourself.

...it's like a swirling nexus of bullshit....

Sulla Felix

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The mother had a couple of decks of angel cards - she really liked them, so hardly a scam.

I'm no beleiver, but I fail to see the difference between her getting enjoment from angel cards and me getting enjoment from a couple of beers.

**** - my barman is scamming me!

It's a scam because the angels aren't going to intervene on her behalf, or help her somehow predict the future.
It can't be compared to your couple of beers, because your beers are beer, have an alchohol content that is presumably the main aim of your purchase.

c_man

Sarky wrote: »

You can usually talk to a priest without coughing up a fifty to start with.

magicbastarder

the MIL once told me (knowing full well that i wouldn't have much time for them, but in the spirit that she knew i'd enjoy the story) that she'd read her angel cards, which had told her that the angels would be along to help her; and that they'd leave a feather as a signal that they'd been around.
an hour or so later, a sparrowhawk chased a finch or sparrow into their sunroom window, and had eaten it outside, so the place was swimming with feathers.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sulla Felix wrote: »

It's a scam because the angels aren't going to intervene on her behalf, or help her somehow predict the future.
It can't be compared to your couple of beers, because your beers are beer, have an alchohol content that is presumably the main aim of your purchase.

Em... that's not the whole point (or so I ws told) - it's more to get advice.

Whjat exactly do you think someone is purchasing when the purchase a deck of cards?

Sulla Felix

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Em... that's not the whole point (or so I ws told) - it's more to get advice.

Whjat exactly do you think someone is purchasing when the purchase a deck of cards?

It's much like the normal tarot. "They" posit some agency, whether imbued in the cards themselves or an outside force, will influence the order in which the cards fall and from this, a result or results can be read, be it an answer to a question or a prediction of future events.

Because otherwise it's just laying cards down at random and acting upon what someone wrote down in the accompanying pamphlet, right? (Hint: That's exactly what it is.)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sulla Felix wrote: »

It's much like the normal tarot. "They" posit some agency, whether imbued in the cards themselves or an outside force, will influence the order in which the cards fall and from this, a result or results can be read, be it an answer to a question or a prediction of future events.

Because otherwise it's just laying cards down at random and acting upon what someone wrote down in the accompanying pamphlet, right? (Hint: That's exactly what it is.)

Ah, now you're straying into my territory with Tarot, as I've done this myself . I tend not to read though: my main interest, as an artist, is in the symbology and artwork. (I'll read at parties for the craic, but I always make the point that it's not serious and I never take money. Beer... maybe.)

So let's get one thing straight: ANY tarot card reader who claims to be psychic, a medium or be able to predict the furture is, indeed, a fraud. 100% guarantee.

Your discription is not fully acurate, as the insight is supposed to come from your subconscious, not from any external force. This is a complete contrast from angel readings, whcih does fit your discription above.

Is it just following the instructions of the pamphlet? If you're a beginner, probably. But if you're a beginner, you should not be doing it for money. Don't know if it constitutes fraud, but it's certainly dushonest. The instructinos won't tell you what every pattern means, and that's where the insight comes from.

Sulla Felix

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ah, now you're straying into my territory with Tarot, as I've done this myself . I tend not to read though: my main interest, as an artist, is in the symbology and artwork. (I'll read at parties for the craic, but I always make the point that it's not serious and I never take money. Beer... maybe.)

So let's get one thing straight: ANY tarot card reader who claims to be psychic, a medium or be able to predict the furture is, indeed, a fraud. 100% guarantee.

Your discription is not fully acurate, as the insight is supposed to come from your subconscious, not from any external force. This is a complete contrast from angel readings, whcih does fit your discription above.

Is it just following the instructions of the pamphlet? If you're a beginner, probably. But if you're a beginner, you should not be doing it for money. Don't know if it constitutes fraud, but it's certainly dushonest. The instructinos won't tell you what every pattern means, and that's where the insight comes from.

Just to be sure we're not arguing at cross purposes here, you're saying that the tarot isn't supernatural in it's ability to give the user optimal answers in reply to questions presented? If so, you're definitely in the minority of people that I've talked to that believe it works. Everyone else I've ever discussed the issue assuredly believed it was a supernatural mechanism that was providing the guidance, not their sub-concious.

Oh, and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_OezlTZ1A

Just because I can't hear that word without thinking of the film :P

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Just to be sure we're not arguing at cross purposes here, you're saying that the tarot isn't supernatural in it's ability to give the user optimal answers in reply to questions presented? If so, you're definitely in the minority of people that I've talked to that believe it works. Everyone else I've ever discussed the issue assuredly believed it was a supernatural mechanism that was providing the guidance, not their sub-concious.

Well, at least it wasn't a Dan Brown clip

And yes - there is nothing supernatual about Tarot cards. Some readers do claim that there is a force picking the cards, but most seem to agree that it's internal rather than external. Some link it to a kind of astral energy, but point to a connection between you and it, rather than the energy entirely doing the work. I wouldn't class this as supernatual, just an extension of psyche and in any case, I don't rall see it that way.

Personally, I'm neither that knowledgeable nor that interested. I look at it more as a form of "guided" meditation in a buddhist sense.

Sarky

Random cards come up that can mean one thing, or its polar opposite, or a whole load of other things arbitrarily depending on the other cards, which are just as vague. Someone "interprets" said cards. It'd be hard to deal a hand that couldn't be interpreted to tell a person what they wanted to hear, tbh.

Obliq

black123 wrote: »

Is it just me or is it such a shame that vulnerable people are wasting their money on this scam?

Does it not come down to what people are prepared to subscribe to, in order to try and hear what they want to hear in support of their own vulnerability?

You could say the same thing (scam) about women's magazines, and yet millions of women still buy into the same aul crap about the "7 signs of aging", the "perfect figure", the latest synthetic face/body covering product.....the list is endless.

If someone wishes to believe in some spirit/angel/whatever that can intercede on their behalf in their times of difficulty or concern, it's just another projection of their insecurities/feeling of powerlessness in the face of adversity onto an outside agency. They're actually seeking to be scammed in a way. Like buying magazines full of veiled insults towards people's appearance, that actually support the way they feel inadequate in themselves.

But it's a shame, right enough.

Galvasean

c_man wrote: »

Look I'm no fan of the Catholic church but in fairness, at least they're not milking cash from the sick and dying at their lowest points.

Mass cards.

Michael Nugent

c_man wrote: »

Look I'm no fan of the Catholic church but in fairness, at least they're not milking cash from the sick and dying at their lowest points.

Trips to Lourdes to cut time spent in purgatory

(coincidentally announced by Pope Benedict shortly after the Vatican launched Vatican Airlines, selling flights for pilgrimages to Lourdes)

Animord

kylith wrote: »

After the sex sandals people went away from the RCC, but they still believe in all the Catholic nonsense and the idea of 'angels' makes some people think that it's pretty much Catholicism without the church.

I want sex sandals. :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sarky wrote: »

Random cards come up that can mean one thing, or its polar opposite, or a whole load of other things arbitrarily depending on the other cards, which are just as vague. Someone "interprets" said cards. It'd be hard to deal a hand that couldn't be interpreted to tell a person what they wanted to hear, tbh.

It would be hard to have a life that related to nothing. A spread wil always reflect some aspect of a story and people relate to stories. Might not be what you want to hear, but if you're tellign someone what the want to hear, then yes - you're a fraud.

It could be argued that the subscious is picking set cards. Not by me, as I don't know enough about either tarot cards or the subscsious - but I'd be more open (and probably knowledgable) than the guy who comes in, sneers, and atumatically dismisses it as rubbish.

Gumbi

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It would be hard to have a life that related to nothing. A spread wil always reflect some aspect of a story and people relate to stories. Might not be what you want to hear, but if you're tellign someone what the want to hear, then yes - you're a fraud.

It could be argued that the subscious is picking set cards. Not by me, as I don't know enough about either tarot cards or the subscsious - but I'd be more open (and probably knowledgable) than the guy who comes in, sneers, and atumatically dismisses it as rubbish.

But is is rubbish.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gumbi wrote: »

But is is rubbish.

I knew someone would take the bait

Sarky

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It would be hard to have a life that related to nothing. A spread wil always reflect some aspect of a story and people relate to stories. Might not be what you want to hear, but if you're tellign someone what the want to hear, then yes - you're a fraud.

It could be argued that the subscious is picking set cards. Not by me, as I don't know enough about either tarot cards or the subscsious - but I'd be more open (and probably knowledgable) than the guy who comes in, sneers, and atumatically dismisses it as rubbish.

You can tell people stuff they don't want to hear and still be a fraud. In fact, it's even easier than telling someone purely what they want to hear. Gives it an air of authenticity, makes a person think that since there's some bad news in there then the reader couldn't be making it up, because otherwise it'd be a bed of roses all the way. And we are amazingly good at lying to ourselves, so subconscious or not, it's not to be trusted.

I'm quite comfortable dismissing it, tbh.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sarky wrote: »

You can tell people stuff they don't want to hear and still be a fraud. In fact, it's even easier than telling someone purely what they want to hear. Gives it an air of authenticity, makes a person think that since there's some bad news in there then the reader couldn't be making it up, because otherwise it'd be a bed of roses all the way. And we are amazingly good at lying to ourselves, so subconscious or not, it's not to be trusted.

I'm quite comfortable dismissing it, tbh.

Absolutely - if you're trying to anticipate some mood, then I'd be ver skeptical too. But there's no news - good or bad. As I said earlier, it's more advice and people can choose to take or leave advice.

Sarky

That's a bit, eh, simplistic. If it's advice, then it's marketed as advice from some supernatural power that supposedly knows better than anyone in the real world. That's dangerous. It's the sort of thing that has cancer patients stop medical treatment and banging crystals together because the stars said it'd work, or selling their possessions and moving to France on the say so of a random hand of cards that may or may not have been arranged by a subconscious that really doesn't know better, or whatever.

Frito

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Trips to Lourdes to cut time spent in purgatory

My kid sis went to Lourdes three times, so if purgatory has no disabled toilets then this is good news.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sarky wrote: »

That's a bit, eh, simplistic. If it's advice, then it's marketed as advice from some supernatural power that supposedly knows better than anyone in the real world. That's dangerous. It's the sort of thing that has cancer patients stop medical treatment and banging crystals together because the stars said it'd work, or selling their possessions and moving to France on the say so of a random hand of cards that may or may not have been arranged by a subconscious that really doesn't know better, or whatever.

Firstly, as I said, it's not supernatural.

the rest of it falls outside the scope of angel/tarot cards. Anyone making such claims, or following such advice based on a simple card reading, I agree - would be a moron. No argument there.

But it's never a yes/no question. It's more "what would happen if I did this?" or "what's the msot likely scenario if I did this?" (whcihs is nto the same as predicting the future).

Sulla Felix

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Firstly, as I said, it's not supernatural.

the rest of it falls outside the scope of angel/tarot cards. Anyone making such claims, or following such advice based on a simple card reading, I agree - would be a moron. No argument there.

But it's never a yes/no question. It's more "what would happen if I did this?" or "what's the msot likely scenario if I did this?" (whcihs is nto the same as predicting the future).

Like I said, you're definitely in the minority. You only have to take a look at the psychic and mediums forum to see that plenty of people who go to card readings believe it's supernatural.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Like I said, you're definitely in the minority. You only have to take a look at the psychic and mediums forum to see that plenty of people who go to card readings believe it's supernatural.

Just did a quick search and there's not that many mentions of tarot cards in the forum.

Anyway, it's more the judgeemnt of the people who do the readings, not those who go.

kylith

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

But it's never a yes/no question. It's more "what would happen if I did this?" or "what's the msot likely scenario if I did this?" (whcihs is nto the same as predicting the future).

I'm sorry, but divining 'what would happen if I did this?' sounds exactly like predicting the future.

5uspect

It's becoming a big business, apparently.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85806765

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kylith wrote: »

I'm sorry, but divining 'what would happen if I did this?' sounds exactly like predicting the future.

No, because if you're predicting the future you're claimg to know about a set course of events. Predicting the future doesn't take into account free will. It assumes that the future will follow a preset pattern and choices have already been made.

If your mother tells you to wear a coat when you go out or you'll catch a cold, she's not predicting the future. If, however, she were to say, "you;re going to catch a cold" that would be a prediction, because it implies choosing to wear a coat will make no difference.

Brian Shanahan

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Absolutely - if you're trying to anticipate some mood, then I'd be ver skeptical too. But there's no news - good or bad. As I said earlier, it's more advice and people can choose to take or leave advice.

But at its best it is simply advice based on a good listening to a person's problems, and at worst (and by far the most likely), it is advice given without knowledge of the person's situation, and therefore wildly inappropriate for that person.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

But at its best it is simply advice based on a good listening to a person's problems, and at worst (and by far the most likely), it is advice given without knowledge of the person's situation, and therefore wildly inappropriate for that person.

Well, you try and find out about the situation first, in fairness!

But my point was that it's nt supernatural and it's not predicting the future.

Brian Shanahan

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, you try and find out about the situation first, in fairness!

But my point was that it's nt supernatural and it's not predicting the future.

And my point is, given your point is true (which I doubt), it is at best unnecessary (a good ear and a nice cup of tea will work the same), and at worst (and most typical) it is actively damaging to the person availing of it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

And my point is, given your point is true (which I doubt), it is at best unnecessary (a good ear and a nice cup of tea will work the same), and at worst (and most typical) it is actively damaging to the person availing of it.

1 - Possibly so. The theory is that the cards connect you withyour inner self, because no one will know the probelm as you do. 2 - depends on the reader. If it's one of those that tries to come off as doing somthing they aren't, then yes - I agree with you.

gaynorvader

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It would be hard to have a life that related to nothing. A spread wil always reflect some aspect of a story and people relate to stories. Might not be what you want to hear, but if you're tellign someone what the want to hear, then yes - you're a fraud.

It could be argued that the subscious is picking set cards. Not by me, as I don't know enough about either tarot cards or the subscsious - but I'd be more open (and probably knowledgable) than the guy who comes in, sneers, and atumatically dismisses it as rubbish.

What if I manually dismiss it as rubbish?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

1 - Possibly so. The theory is that the cards connect you withyour inner self, because no one will know the probelm as you do. 2 - depends on the reader. If it's one of those that tries to come off as doing somthing they aren't, then yes - I agree with you.

That's how the ouija board got started!