The COLLUSION thing

Jun_DP101

http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/438887523?t=17880

spooky pulled the plug on grand finals after chris g and sanford were "colluding" :eek:

D4RK ONION

Serious props to Spooky for standing up to this bull. Someone has to do it.

Doctor DooM

Does Chris G ever think?

Like it or not he's put himself in the position where he is a sponsored player. He has chosen to work hard and become one of the best players in Marvel and enter tournaments where he's payed by other peoples money that pay, not just to play, but also to get a seat watching the best players go at it.

If you want to feck around, do it in the early stages. Definitely don't put Spooky, who's sponsered by Madcatz, who just made the collusion rule a thing, in the horrible situation where he either has to end a tournament or appear to be endorsing collusion against the wishes of his sponsor.

Dicks!

K.O.Kiki

I guess it's time to make tournaments character-lock, or character-lock with a named secondary.

Jun_DP101

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I guess it's time to make tournaments character-lock, or character-lock with a named secondary.

Actually in cannes 2012 ae pools there was a staff member who asked each player in our pool who our main and secondary character was, and that you were only allowed switch to your secondary character if you lost. Was only a few pools that did that as well which was weird

2gen

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I guess it's time to make tournaments character-lock, or character-lock with a named secondary.

i dont think that will be necessary since you can easily tell when someone is trolling and when someone is serious. for example at ECT 2013 when F.Champ revealed his "Anti Chris G" team (Dorm, Morrigon, Pheonix). we all knew that wasnt his main team but we knew he was trying his absolute best to beat Chris.

if there was character-lock (or in this case "team lock") he would have never been able to give this tactic a shot and we wouldn't have had the chance to see a tactic that was working thus giving the community an opportunity to grow/develop new tech.

in the case of the last Battle Circuit weekly tourny, we could all see they were laughing and not taking this seriously when they jumped on.

also, i was reading up on Chris G's twitter.... man he bitches like a little girl good to see players like Alukard and Nerd Josh were standing up for Sp00ky and calling him out.

2gen

the blow up Youtube version

UberPrinny_Baal

2gen wrote: »

the blow up Youtube version

lol @ Eventhubs results

Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012

1. -
2. -
3. BIFU|Spabrog (El Fuerte)
4. Chris Hu (Oni)
5. TS|Sabin (Rose, Dhalsim)
5. EMP|Hiro
7. Autodemon
7. Lazyone

Lythero

"both finalists were killed during the tournament so out of respect we didn't list their names."

Doctor DooM

Thought this situation might deserve its own thread...

Sabre0001

Don't like the idea of character locking (after all then we wouldn't have gotten to see Infiltration pulling out Hakan against PR Rog), but collusion definitely has to be knocked on the head. Those who collude need to realise that sponsors will be very quick to jump ship, especially if spectators stop watching because results are pre-determined.

FGC has had to work incredibly hard to get a few players who can afford to live off earnings and team salaries and it could all be undone very quickly!

Lythero

Guys, you should go promise sponsors you'll enforce their collusion rule.

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE DRAMA AND CONFUSION.

jimmypenguin

absoulute madness..
wouldnt be into character locking myself..or could your second character be random select.. whoop whooop...

UberPrinny_Baal

I don't think this will have as big of an impact on the day-to-day players as we think it will.

This isn't "We don't want people messing around in Grand Finals"

This is more "Chris G is being a spoilt petulant child who is ruining things for everyone, and we need official sounding rules to disqualify him under."

So, I don't think will affect anyone in this thread personally BUT...

This seems to have pretty badly damaged the FGC's image as a whole, and it's probably going to have negative effects on big future American events, American TOs, sponsorships etc

Jun_DP101 wrote: »

Actually in cannes 2012 ae pools there was a staff member who asked each player in our pool who our main and secondary character was, and that you were only allowed switch to your secondary character if you lost. Was only a few pools that did that as well which was weird

Yeah my pool didn't do this, but you did the best from Ireland, so I'm not sure if they magically started caring once you got far

That sounds more to me like a system from stopping players with many characters in their pocket from "first game" counterpicking their opponents (since nobody ever asks for blind char select).

For example if you say mained Akuma, but had a pocket Hakan.

Then as you sit down you see your opponent has already selected T-Hawk. At that point you might be like "Well, I can play Blanka pretty well, I'll just go with him"

Under the WGC thing you're describing, you might be forced to go Akuma and only pick Hakan at a loss (or be allowed to pick Hakan first).

But you couldn't just pick your favourite char from a stable on a per-match-up basis.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's the only kinda logic I can derive from what you're describing.

D4RK ONION

Story is breaking out into the mainstream gaming scene, huge reddit thread about it here. Had to explain the situation to some friends too. More tales that make the whole scene look like arseholes, just what we need!

GorySnake

Biggest news at the moment is that this whole collusion thing has apparently cost the FGC a big sponsorship deal

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74249187&postcount=2107

UberPrinny_Baal

Good Ultrachen on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcPREGjkkj0

I tend to convert voice-only episodes like this to MP3 and listen to them while I walk via websites like this

Azza

I just want to make it clear any games I lost to Doom in tournaments where due to collusion, I agreed to let him win because I felt sorry for him and didn't want to see him cry so much.

FutureGuy

I can understand Spookys frustration here as there is nothing more disrespectful to a Tournament Organizer than to maje a joke of the event in the manner they did.

I ran a European Championships for a game in 2008. Players came from pretty much all over Europe for a 2-day tournament. Broke my back for 9 months to get the event planned and realized. Got tons of sponsors on board, room discount for the hundred or so competitors. All was set.

The event was being dominated by two guys from the same play group in Prague. Both were in different semi-final matches against a Berlin player and a Dutch player iifc.

As I was playing a friendly match, one of the Czech players was overheard by myself and a few other players stating that, if both himself and his friend from Prague reached the final, he would immediately concede and let his friend win because he always wanted it.

Had to disqualify him. He was in effect ruining the grand final of 9 months of planning. While I do not believe they were disrespectful, it was still rage inducing. He even apologized afterwards.

I can only imagine the anger Spooky felt when they seemed to be blatently doing it. It makes a complete joke of the hard work.

UberPrinny_Baal

Damn, just like Onion I got a message from someone completely outside of the scene asking

"Hey so what's with this collusion thing I hear about in your tournaments?"

Ramza

Bento Sento

Totalbiscuit had a few interesting words about the situation.

2gen

i feel that the international scene has come to a point where if someone isn't behaving accordingly, they should be banned from events for a certain time period.

things like Noel Brown beating his ex at CEO 2013 (resulting in him going to jail) and Chris G acting like a child shouldn't be taken lightly.

also for those who didn't see this at Eventhubs, Flocker's side of the story at VxG..

... so Chris G did what he did cause he was pissed at the organisers for what happened in the IGAU brackets...

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/19800000/-Facepalm-lunashay-19892493-750-600.jpg

Doctor DooM

http://comic-sans-comic.tumblr.com/post/57129017430

Goody2shoes15

I had gathered from the little comment I get from Eoghan about the US streams that ChrisG is an arse but I really do not understand this, if they want to split the pot whatever, whoever wins the money is entitled to do what they like with it but why on earth would they not still play a serious competitive match. They aren't gaining anything by making fun of the tourney and putting on a crap show. Where's the logic in that?!

K.O.Kiki

2gen wrote: »

i feel that the international scene has come to a point where if someone isn't behaving accordingly, they should be banned from events for a certain time period.

things like Noel Brown beating his ex at CEO 2013 (resulting in him going to jail)

While I can't condone it, I would consider that a personal matter outside of the FGC's spectrum.

More: http://pattheflip.tumblr.com/post/54414358578/why-im-pissed-off-about-this-noel-brown-****

1man3letters

i get the fact spookys stream is his job.
he makes money from it.
if less people watch his stream because of ****ing about, the stream could lose sponsors, he then loses money.

HOWEVER...chris g and sanford are not his employees, if they want pick whatever character they want, they can.
if they want to piss about and risk losing there own sponsors, they can.

while spooky wasnt wrong for doing what he did because there were putting his sponsors on the line ****ing about rather than just there own,
if i was a sponsor id prob be more annoyed with the rant of cursing and moaning afterwards from spooky than what chris g/sanford did,
bitching about people not being professional in a totally un-professional way wont help his point along.

Doyler01

Woah woah woah, that Noel stuff happened at a tournament?

Nutrient

1man3letters wrote: »

i get the fact spookys stream is his job.
he makes money from it.
if less people watch his stream because of ****ing about, the stream could lose sponsors, he then loses money.

HOWEVER...chris g and sanford are not his employees, if they want pick whatever character they want, they can.
if they want to piss about and risk losing there own sponsors, they can.

while spooky wasnt wrong for doing what he did because there were putting his sponsors on the line ****ing about rather than just there own,
if i was a sponsor id prob be more annoyed with the rant of cursing and moaning afterwards from spooky than what chris g/sanford did,
bitching about people not being professional in a totally un-professional way wont help his point along.

I think the whole problem, which was outlined in Ultrachen's video, is this ruling being applied to weekly events. e.g lvlup

It is a very particular circumstance for Spooky however due to their sponsership with MadCatz themselves. I do believe weeklys should not abide by these rules unless directly affilated with a company that holds disapproval towards collusion.

Chris G's behaviour will tarnish himself and his sponser. they should suspend him from attending locals till his sponser decides to chastise him.

Lythero

Doctor DooM

1man3letters wrote: »

i get the fact spookys stream is his job.
he makes money from it.
if less people watch his stream because of ****ing about, the stream could lose sponsors, he then loses money.

HOWEVER...chris g and sanford are not his employees, if they want pick whatever character they want, they can.
if they want to piss about and risk losing there own sponsors, they can.

while spooky wasnt wrong for doing what he did because there were putting his sponsors on the line ****ing about rather than just there own,
if i was a sponsor id prob be more annoyed with the rant of cursing and moaning afterwards from spooky than what chris g/sanford did,
bitching about people not being professional in a totally un-professional way wont help his point along.

The decision to do nothing was taken away from Spooky when he sponsors said they wouldn't support anyone who endorsed collusion. He literally couldn't sit there and let it happen.

Lythero

Plus while I completely agree that it was horribly unprofessional for him to be swearing like that, you can kind of sympathise since he was forced to pull the plug on his own stream. It's one thing for players to dick about with pots and jeopardise the legitimacy of a grand final. But it's another for them to do it right after rules have been set down to avoid it. Chris G tested the water, very much at Spooby's expense regardless of the outcome.

Has that kind of show-stopper even happened before?

1man3letters

Doctor DooM wrote: »

The decision to do nothing was taken away from Spooky when he sponsors said they wouldn't support anyone who endorsed collusion. He literally couldn't sit there and let it happen.

i said he wasnt wrong for what he did though
was just saying he was just as un-professional as they were with all the rants, yeah fair enough he was well mad they tried mess with him but step away from the mic if you just want to curse for 5 mins straight....that or commentate on irish mk :pac:

Jun_DP101

Lythero wrote: »

Has that kind of show-stopper even happened before?

Ye dreddy pulled the plug on the sham that was cobelcog vs stev0 #collusion

K.O.Kiki

Doyler01 wrote: »

Woah woah woah, that Noel stuff happened at a tournament?

Technically, no.

It happened on a hotel room at night, not during tournament time.

Dreddybajs

Jun_DP101 wrote: »

Ye dreddy pulled the plug on the sham that was cobelcog vs stev0 #collusion

GET THAT **** OUTTA HERE!

Doyler01

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Technically, no.

It happened on a hotel room at night, not during tournament time.

Got a summary of what happened? Ur last link was hella long

Lythero

Doyler01 wrote: »

Got a summary of what happened? Ur last link was hella long

He bopped his gf for suspecting she was hanging with another competitor.

Lythero

I know we have a video thread, but I think all these fighters are colluding as well.

K.O.Kiki

Doyler01 wrote: »

Got a summary of what happened? Ur last link was hella long

http://randomencounterz.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/what-does-the-coverage-of-noel-browns-arrest-mean-for-the-fighting-game-community/

events transpired that left one player arrested and two other attendees injured. Noel Brown was arrested and charged with battery (domestic violence) after allegedly striking another player and his ex-girlfriend after he caught them in a hotel room engaging in an “intimate” situation. Brown was in Orlando, Florida, attending Community Effort Orlando (CEO), which is one of the FGC’s Road to EVO events.

Raawron

Sabre0001

1man3letters wrote: »

i get the fact spookys stream is his job.
he makes money from it.
if less people watch his stream because of ****ing about, the stream could lose sponsors, he then loses money.

HOWEVER...chris g and sanford are not his employees, if they want pick whatever character they want, they can.
if they want to piss about and risk losing there own sponsors, they can.

Chris G and Sanford are not Spooky's employees - HOWEVER, sponsors hear about this kind of stuff happening in FGC so they don't support other players, people would stop watching streams and that affects sponsorship too. It's a bigger issue than just two players.

I'll be honest (and I raised this question on Twitter), I don't understand the line between collusion and pot splitting. Either way you're getting a match that means nothing to either player and that surely influences play and has a bearing on viewer experience. Plus it means nothing in terms of "records" / history...

FGC is at a crossroads - it's finally getting media attention, bigger pots, sponsors, but with that comes certain responsibilities such as not blowing up stream chat every time a girl is seen, taking sponsor commitments seriously (so yes, shoutouts are important) and not fixing matches (which is essentially what I see collusion and pot-splitting as). There are some who want the growth...and others who are perfectly happy with the DNA of the FGC (the arcade hostility, elements of commentary, the Cross Assault controversy, etc).

Doctor DooM

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Chris G and Sanford are not Spooky's employees - HOWEVER, sponsors hear about this kind of stuff happening in FGC so they don't support other players, people would stop watching streams and that affects sponsorship too. It's a bigger issue than just two players.

I'll be honest (and I raised this question on Twitter), I don't understand the line between collusion and pot splitting. Either way you're getting a match that means nothing to either player and that surely influences play and has a bearing on viewer experience. Plus it means nothing in terms of "records" / history...

FGC is at a crossroads - it's finally getting media attention, bigger pots, sponsors, but with that comes certain responsibilities such as not blowing up stream chat every time a girl is seen, taking sponsor commitments seriously (so yes, shoutouts are important) and not fixing matches (which is essentially what I see collusion and pot-splitting as). There are some who want the growth...and others who are perfectly happy with the DNA of the FGC (the arcade hostility, elements of commentary, the Cross Assault controversy, etc).

Well, there is a practical issue.

If the winner and runner up decide to share the money, how do you stop them? It's their money, they won it, they earned the right to do so.

However, it's painfully obvious when people aren't trying their best to win, in general.

The question then becomes- how do you enforce it? How do you detect the difference between an attempted counter pick and someone not trying to win? It's like the "foul and a miss" rule in snooker, it prevents people from attempting something legit otherwise.

Lythero

I don't understand why pot splitters can't at least take some pride in getting first. Even in a tournament where big money would be involved, the glory means more to me than the moolah...

Perhaps some frequent winners really just don't care about that aspect of the tourneys anymore.

RasTa

What was the prize money? Didn't seem like a huge tourney.

Doctor DooM

Lythero wrote: »

I don't understand why pot splitters can't at least take some pride in getting first. Even in a tournament where big money would be involved, the glory means more to me than the moolah...

Perhaps some frequent winners really just don't care about that aspect of the tourneys anymore.

Even if they didn't give a damn about winning, and I'd guess they don't. Why piss off the sponsors and pot monsters by not giving them a good final? They paid for it, after all- but they might not pay for it again if they think you'll just feck about...

K.O.Kiki

I don't get how anyone could get morally offended by Cross Assault.

It was reality TV.

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I don't get how anyone could get morally offended by Cross Assault.

It was reality TV.

Most people aren't the biggest fans of sexism, Kiki.

K.O.Kiki

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Most people aren't the biggest fans of sexism, Kiki.

Right, right.
But reality TV thrives on sexism & debauchery.

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Right, right.
But reality TV thrives on sexism & debauchery.

Doesn't make it ok.