Diet feeders

mf240

Well lads and ladies what are the pros and cons of a diet feeder?

Do they increase output and do they pay for themselves. I dont have one and am wondering if I missing out.

bob charles

they are the creation of the devil.

anyway dont you have cows, sure they only need grass??

when everything is sold here it will be the last thing out the gate.

Going forward...

Depends what you're prepared to put into them. They're not magic but if used to any of their potential, you should see improvements. It's probably more a change to your whole approach that will bring the benefits, making better silage, getting meal with better ingredients, formulating diets based on tests and so on. Depending on your yard layout, it might speed up feeding.

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

when everything is sold here it will be the last thing out the gate.

Any further comments on why you say this Bob?

whelan1

wouldnt be without it, have a keenan 170 feeder. no wastage, troughs normally cleaned. great way of getting straw , minerals into animals. very low maintenance

freedominacup

Get one but keep it simple. As soon as you go above 4 ingredients in a mix it gets time consuming. That said most of ours will have 6 counting straw and minerals. The first benefit is to be able to mix forages which should give you a 20%+ increase in forage intakes. Cheaper rations if you can take in grain at harvest time crimped grain has been our poison for 10 years or more now. We just buy a simple protein blend with maybe a bit of pulp added to balance the crimped grain. The meal cost savings should pay for the feeder fairly quickly.

As whelan said reduced waste, we expect to feed everything that's in the pits with absolute minimal dumping. Dry cows are usually the target for any leftovers. You aren't guessing how much you are cutting a group who aren't cleaning out their ration by you are measuring it accurately.

Unless you have very large numbers don't start getting involved with buying truckloads of straights between the storage requirements, waste, getting stuck with the wrong ingredients at the wrong time and the added complications and time spent running from one bay to another for bits of this and that it doesn't really save much if anything overall.

You don't need 100's of dairy cows to make a feeder viable. Two neighbours with 50 cow suckler herds who finish all their own calves have bought second-hand feeders in the past couple of years can't understand why they didn't get one years ago. Big reductions in calving problems, and far higher and cheaper performance from their finishing cattle. One of them works full-time off farm and the other has a business that keeps him off-farm quite a lot neither appear to have time issues since buying the feeder. Difficult calvings and sick cattle don't look after themselves either and can be very time consuming.

yellow50HX

what is your plan for it? by that i mean are you planning on using it to mix different feeds and for feeding different groups like the lads above?

are you looking for soemthing that will reduce your work load by been able to you the feeder to make up enough feed for 2 days then just hopping up on the tractor to feed it out.

you will need a tractor that can power it with enough spool valve to work the controls and also power the scales (usually pluged into the trailer lights). you will then need a loader or tractor with a decent sized loader, a quick attach is essential if you need the bucket to feed in loose feed.

also and very importantly can you fit one into your feed passages? had looked at getting a 2nd hand one last year for feeding sucklers and yearlings a mixture of silage, straw and maybe beet but the feed passage is too narrow and i'd end up catching the wall or driving over the silage.

jersey101

As the lads say if your goin to get one keep it simple. No point in having heaps of feed around. All i get here is brewers grain and soya. I get a half tonne sack of soya at a time and that would nearly last me month to feed the heifers with, and i feed the cows the brewers with silage and minerals. Its a great way to make sure every animal is getting the same

loveta

Bought one in 02 and for the most part would not be without one, apart from the improve performance they really save fodder and like they guys in previous post said great way of getting straw into the diet to firm up dung esp if silage was made wet

Going forward...

For the love of God, don't buy a Keenan whatever you do.

jersey101

Going forward... wrote: »

For the love of God, don't buy a Keenan whatever you do.

ill second that, takes way to long to mix bales. And bales is all i have

locha

Going forward... wrote: »

For the love of God, don't buy a Keenan whatever you do.

I take it you have also been through the pain of pulling out silage out of the auger when it gets blocked... have some fond memories of that!

grazeaway

are tub mixers better for bales? taught with a chopped bale that there would not be as many problems breaking them up?

jersey101

grazeaway wrote: »

are tub mixers better for bales? taught with a chopped bale that there would not be as many problems breaking them up?

with tubs ye can really just throw the bales in a keenan you have too feed them in

49801

Read some sensible advice before that said so long as you do not have to another tractor to run the feeder it can stack up but always wondered about mixing times and the added fuel, maintence required?

Timmaay

Plenty people I've talked to have told me to stay away from a diet feeder, but I guess reading up about them now here, and looking at afew of the problems that I've had with our HO cows, it's something that I really should be more open minded about, at the very least I need to get way more serious with the cows diet around here. That or just steer away from any sort of 7/8klitres HO cows which we have, which are giving out far far less delivered milk on a herd average bases! I guess thats problem I need to address before I'd ever seriously look at a diet feeder, I've seen farmers expect the diet feeder to solve all their problems overnight, when the biggest problem is they aren't looking after the cows themselves.

delaval

whelan1 wrote: »

wouldnt be without it, have a keenan 170 feeder. no wastage, troughs normally cleaned. great way of getting straw , minerals into animals. very low maintenance

But you need a tractor and diesel and time to run it. Unless you're moving feed to an out farm, finishing cattle or very high out put milkers they are an unnecessary item.

I have had them and never regretted it going. We had Keenan and a 24cu twin tub, if you need a machine that's the one.

Funny Whelan I knew you had one when you mentioned 'tickle factor' in a post. A Keenan phrase!!

delaval

Timmaay wrote: »

Plenty people I've talked to have told me to stay away from a diet feeder, but I guess reading up about them now here, and looking at afew of the problems that I've had with our HO cows, it's something that I really should be more open minded about, at the very least I need to get way more serious with the cows diet around here. That or just steer away from any sort of 7/8klitres HO cows which we have, which are giving out far far less delivered milk on a herd average bases! I guess thats problem I need to address before I'd ever seriously look at a diet feeder, I've seen farmers expect the diet feeder to solve all their problems overnight, when the biggest problem is they aren't looking after the cows themselves.

Timmay maybe you need one but if you re read your last post in Grass measuring I think with the greatest respect that you might need to invest otherwise ie regrassing first

Going forward...

Timmaay wrote: »

Plenty people I've talked to have told me to stay away from a diet feeder, but I guess reading up about them now here, and looking at afew of the problems that I've had with our HO cows, it's something that I really should be more open minded about, at the very least I need to get way more serious with the cows diet around here. That or just steer away from any sort of 7/8klitres HO cows which we have, which are giving out far far less delivered milk on a herd average bases! I guess thats problem I need to address before I'd ever seriously look at a diet feeder, I've seen farmers expect the diet feeder to solve all their problems overnight, when the biggest problem is they aren't looking after the cows themselves.

You don't need a feeder to tackle those problems. A feeder alone won't do anything for you. Start with getting good nutritional advice. A better quality, balanced meal in the parlour is good enough for most herd of those yields. If your mindset is meal is evil, forget it too.

whelan1

delaval wrote: »

But you need a tractor and diesel and time to run it. Unless you're moving feed to an out farm, finishing cattle or very high out put milkers they are an unnecessary item.

I have had them and never regretted it going. We had Keenan and a 24cu twin tub, if you need a machine that's the one.

Funny Whelan I knew you had one when you mentioned 'tickle factor' in a post. A Keenan phrase!!

ye we have an outfarm, we go there with feeder twice a week in the winter, very handy. i suppose the other downside is its doing nothing for 6 months-well in a "normal" year-

mf240

Ya thanks for the replies I suppose it would be something that I was just thinking about.
Have to say I would nearly prefer to put in a feed to yield system in the palour and get a good nut made up to suit forage. (something like mahoney j)
Feeder would mean purchasing another tractor and some adjusments to a couple of sheds.
One shed could do with improvement anyway, but I think if I was to get to the stage that they all had room to eat at once, it would give me the option to restrict silage and feed some straw even without buying feeder.
Also the fact that silage is my only forage I dont think there is much to be gained here. But I wont rule it out just yet.

bob charles

I find it hard to see how someone can justify a feeder to park it up for 8 months of the year. In my view to you lads with cows it would be most beneficial at the shoulders of the grazing season and times like last may when the grass just wouldnt grow and you can buffer feed the cows to balance everything up. I a fan of the keenan type feeder as it doesnt give trouble when working hard. A couple of bearings usually is all that needed. On saying that mine is to be relined in the next month or so but having put through about 30k tons through it so not too bad. does something short of 1k loads a year but I constantly over load it :rolleyes: so something has got to give. Diet feeder aint magic so if you put in **** you will get out ****, simple as.

**** = s hit:rolleyes:

mikefoxo

mf240 wrote: »

Also the fact that silage is my only forage I dont think there is much to be gained here.

Would you think about one of these?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SupYPeSrTQc

Going forward...

No brainer then in that case. How much is a proper feed to yield system?

bob charles

other good think about diet feeders is your able to use liquid feed. which Im a serious fan of

Going forward...

What liquid feeds are you using, Bob?

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

other good think about diet feeders is your able to use liquid feed. which Im a serious fan of

Rainwater stor Bob :D

bob charles

Going forward... wrote: »

What liquid feeds are you using, Bob?

only beef cattle here so can afford any of the fancy products, just straight cane molasses at the moment, sway in and out when sugar beet is available. like to keep the sugars high in the diet along with intakes

grumpyfarmer

Just a question I've always been curious about the2 different types of feeders can a tub feeder mix a plain meal ration, i.e. say a calf ration, 3 parts rolled barley 1 part citrus 1 part soy bean meal and minerals or a dairy ration, the same way you can in a paddle type??

bob charles

grumpyfarmer wrote: »

Just a question I've always been curious about the2 different types of feeders can a tub feeder mix a plain meal ration, i.e. say a calf ration, 3 parts rolled barley 1 part citrus 1 part soy bean meal and minerals or a dairy ration, the same way you can in a paddle type??

yes, has problems discharging the final 100 ish kilos though

dar31

bob charles wrote: »

only beef cattle here so can afford any of the fancy products, just straight cane molasses at the moment, sway in and out when sugar beet is available. like to keep the sugars high in the diet along with intakes

what price is molasses at the moment, havent feed it in a few years, as it had got to dear, but we are still set up for it

Going forward...

bob charles wrote: »

yes, has problems discharging the final 100 ish kilos though

A quick blast in the 1000 pto will get most out.

lefthooker

Hi.
We feed grass silage and chop around a tonne of beet to around 100 head of cattle (cows and fatteners) daily during the winter. We're back almost 30% on last winters silage over two farms, but in the past 12 months I've sold a few hundred bales of barley straw. I'm planning to mix the straw thru the silage to bulk it up and throw the beet into the mix too. Vets and nutritionists have said the cows/cattle should do well with more roughage in the diet.

1) Of the feeders on the market which type is best suited to the diet I intend to feed? I'm leaning towards a tub at the minute but don't fancy taking several models on trial.

2) Am I feeding enough stock to justify a feeder? There's about another 100 head of cattle that I could theoretically feed silage/straw to aswell.

bob charles

lefthooker wrote: »

Hi.
We feed grass silage and chop around a tonne of beet to around 100 head of cattle (cows and fatteners) daily during the winter. We're back almost 30% on last winters silage over two farms, but in the past 12 months I've sold a few hundred bales of barley straw. I'm planning to mix the straw thru the silage to bulk it up and throw the beet into the mix too. Vets and nutritionists have said the cows/cattle should do well with more roughage in the diet.

1) Of the feeders on the market which type is best suited to the diet I intend to feed? I'm leaning towards a tub at the minute but don't fancy taking several models on trial.

2) Am I feeding enough stock to justify a feeder? There's about another 100 head of cattle that I could theoretically feed silage/straw to aswell.

its an expensive way of incorporating a bit of straw into a diet. This could be done by just forking a bale at evening time after giving the silage in the morning. root chopper bucket for the beet dumped along on top of the straw would work nicely.

lefthooker

bob charles wrote: »

its an expensive way of incorporating a bit of straw into a diet. This could be done by just forking a bale at evening time after giving the silage in the morning. root chopper bucket for the beet dumped along on top of the straw would work nicely.

I can see your point alright bob. I have thought about it, it would be a big saving but there are a few things against it.
I tried feeding straw to dryatock before, there was as much on the slats as there was in their bellies.
It would mean feeding them 3 times a day.
I think your method would work better if I was only feeding one side of a passage. I only have a 13ft passage and feed both sides.
And we banished the sprong from the passage last winter. I can shove silage into both sides, 12 spans in total with a wedge on the 165 in under a minute.

bob charles

lefthooker wrote: »

I can see your point alright bob. I have thought about it, it would be a big saving but there are a few things against it.
I tried feeding straw to dryatock before, there was as much on the slats as there was in their bellies.
It would mean feeding them 3 times a day.
I think your method would work better if I was only feeding one side of a passage. I only have a 13ft passage and feed both sides.
And we banished the sprong from the passage last winter. I can shove silage into both sides, 12 spans in total with a wedge on the 165.

do you really need straw in the diet? they might as well be eating fresh air but maybe you need it to keep stomachs working right, maybe this could be achieved with feed ingredient mixed with a bit of ration. What % of animals can feed at any one time

lefthooker

bob charles wrote: »

do you really need straw in the diet? they might as well be eating fresh air but maybe you need it to keep stomachs working right, maybe this could be achieved with feed ingredient mixed with a bit of ration. What % of animals can feed at any one time

I don't NEED straw in the diet for digestive reasons. I'm looking at it from POV of having a lot less silage and having a few hundred spare bales of top quality barley straw. I've often noticed after bedding houses there's as many calves and yearlings eating straw as there are eating the fresh silage.

I suppose if the feeder is big enough I can feed all 100 cattle in one go. The cows and cattle get the same basic mix and I supplement with ration depending on the group of animals. It would also be possible to feed the rest of the cattle with another tub as they are smaller stock.

bob charles

lefthooker wrote: »

I don't NEED straw in the diet for digestive reasons. I'm looking at it from POV of having a lot less silage and having a few hundred spare bales of top quality barley straw. I've often noticed after bedding houses there's as many calves and yearlings eating straw as there are eating the fresh silage.

I suppose if the feeder is big enough I can feed all 100 cattle in one go. The cows and cattle get the same basic mix and I supplement with ration depending on the group of animals. It would also be possible to feed the rest of the cattle with another tub as they are smaller stock.

your going to allot of expensive to feed a product with no feed value that you dont need to feed. Can you just restrict the diet to the animal and spare it that way. Make up the shortage in barley as the cost of running a feeder for a year will buy you 15ton of grain min

Im forming my view as someone who uses a feeder every day of the year and am an advocator of the feeder when circumstances are correct.

tim04750

Google "kuhn 1460" or "kverneland 612" thats the type of feeder you want , twin augers in the bottem ,very easy to drive, never blocks no matter what kind of bales you toss in , dont break shear bolts or chains, and you can drive five miles with it loaded and there's no problem restarting with settled silage. Just make sure there is plenty of metal left in the augers worn ones are expensive to replace, and make sure the weigh cells are working. Its nice to have them if you intend to sell it on after.

yellow50HX

do you already have a beet chopper box?

like bob says the diet feeder can be expensive to run but can also be of benfit. however if you want to feed beet straw and silage as a short term solution that might help uout for this year then i sugesst a more simple approch. we do this from time to time to add in straw and to strech out the silage

roll out a bale of straw along the feed barrier, then drop you silage on top of the straw you can then run your chopper box to drop the beet on top of the silage. the cattle will eat their way down through teh silage to the straw. if you passage is wide enough you can put in 2 days worth of feedign one go (the bale is 4 feet wide) and the catlle will only eat out about half way. the next day push the rest into the barrier and they clean it off. If you make up a silage pusher from and old tyre it'll push in the feed and mix it up a bit too.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo_Z1glMcD0

lefthooker

yellow50HX wrote: »

do you already have a beet chopper box?

like bob says the diet feeder can be expensive to run but can also be of benfit. however if you want to feed beet straw and silage as a short term solution that might help uout for this year then i sugesst a more simple approch. we do this from time to time to add in straw and to strech out the silage

roll out a bale of straw along the feed barrier, then drop you silage on top of the straw you can then run your chopper box to drop the beet on top of the silage. the cattle will eat their way down through teh silage to the straw. if you passage is wide enough you can put in 2 days worth of feedign one go (the bale is 4 feet wide) and the catlle will only eat out about half way. the next day push the rest into the barrier and they clean it off. If you make up a silage pusher from and old tyre it'll push in the feed and mix it up a bit too.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo_Z1glMcD0

Are you feeding both sides of a passage or along a feed barrier, What width is your passage?

I have a Tanco cleanafeeder, I wash and chop 2 hoppers 7 days a week. I also got a wedge made for the 3 point linkage that pushes silage into both sides and then can drag out old feed too.

The problem I see myself having is that a bale won't roll the full length of the passage like one of the old farmhand bales would and I'd need to roll out to both sides. The passage is 13ft wide and with that I'd imagine there would be an awful amount of straw to drive over for to feed the silage and then the beet. And with all the driving over the straw would it not go to **** if you were coming in off wet yards.

stanflt

tim04750 wrote: »

Google "kuhn 1460" or "kverneland 612" thats the type of feeder you want , twin augers in the bottem ,very easy to drive, never blocks no matter what kind of bales you toss in , dont break shear bolts or chains, and you can drive five miles with it loaded and there's no problem restarting with settled silage. Just make sure there is plenty of metal left in the augers worn ones are expensive to replace, and make sure the weigh cells are working. Its nice to have them if you intend to sell it on after.

Neighbour has one of these Kuhns and he had stopped using it- when putting in dry bales they get wedged between the augers and takes hours to clear out- kinda opposite to what you said would happen

yellow50HX

lefthooker wrote: »

Are you feeding both sides of a passage or along a feed barrier, What width is your passage?

I have a Tanco cleanafeeder, I wash and chop 2 hoppers 7 days a week. I also got a wedge made for the 3 point linkage that pushes silage into both sides and then can drag out old feed too.

The problem I see myself having is that a bale won't roll the full length of the passage like one of the old farmhand bales would and I'd need to roll out to both sides. The passage is 13ft wide and with that I'd imagine there would be an awful amount of straw to drive over for to feed the silage and then the beet. And with all the driving over the straw would it not go to **** if you were coming in off wet yards.

We have a 4 bay feed passage but its only about 9-10 feet wide. I actually have to roll the bale back to get one into the passage. I usually throw 2 bales on top so don't dirty the bale much.

jersey101

I dont know if they still fo it but keenan used to rent out diet feeders to farmers for the winter. That could sort you out for this year and then you can see if you really need one

tim04750

Neighbour has one of these Kuhns and he had stopped using it- when putting in dry bales they get wedged between the augers and takes hours to clear out- kinda opposite to what you said would happen

You're sure its a twin auger and not a four auger mixer ?
If there's even half a set of knives on it you couldn't block it , unless you threw in a bale of rope.

lefthooker

jersey101 wrote: »

I dont know if they still fo it but keenan used to rent out diet feeders to farmers for the winter. That could sort you out for this year and then you can see if you really need one

There was an Abbey 1250 delivered to the yard this morning, I have the heifers in the cubicles for training before scanning. I had baled silage yday evening, two bales had burst so I threw them in with a bale of straw. Did a good job of chopping and mixing and heifers and cows swept it.
I'm do a lot I business with the this garage so I'll try a rent to buy deal to see if it suits my needs

lefthooker

Ok lads,

I've been playing with the feeder for the last 2 days and I can see a place for it here. Only thing I can't determine is how big a feeder do I need, ie what capacity do I need to feed 100 cows for 1 day? Can any of ye tell me an idea of how much I need?

Thanks.

bob charles

lefthooker wrote: »

Ok lads,

I've been playing with the feeder for the last 2 days and I can see a place for it here. Only thing I can't determine is how big a feeder do I need, ie what capacity do I need to feed 100 cows for 1 day? Can any of ye tell me an idea of how much I need?

Thanks.

bigger than you think you will need

sheebadog

16 to 17 cubic meters should be enough I reckon. However I would prefer to go for 24 or 25 cube. Something I will have to be looking into for next year as I just have had mine relined.

jersey101

I have a 10 cubic meter keenan feeds 60 cows. 14 cubic meter will feed 100 cows no bother

td5man

Anyone know how much it would cost to reline a 10m keenan??