Small Claims Proceedings

goose06

I am going to make a small claims against O2 for a faulty handset that they will not replace or refund without their ridiculous 3 repairs policy which is only an "Internal Policy" and not visible anywhere on their site. Can anyone tell me should I be addressing it against the manager of the store where I purchased the device or should it be O2 themselves?

Thanks

foggy_lad

goose06 wrote: »

I am going to make a small claims against O2 for a faulty handset that they will not replace or refund without their ridiculous 3 repairs policy which is only an "Internal Policy" and not visible anywhere on their site. Can anyone tell me should I be addressing it against the manager of the store where I purchased the device or should it be O2 themselves?

Thanks

Your contract is with the shop/retailer so they are the people you will take to court.

goose06

foggy_lad wrote: »

Your contract is with the shop/retailer so they are the people you will take to court.

So do I need to put in Manager Store Name or do I need to actually get the managers name to issue proceedings as they wouldn't give me his name when I ask for it.

LowKeyReturn

I'm open to correction but I believe you need O2 Retail Head office. You can probably get the info you need through the CRO. However MAKE SURE you sue O2 Retail, there could be any number of arms of the group under different, but similar, names.

OP When you're done PLEASE update us. Far to many people come here, get advice and then don't update the thread. If people updated their threads you might have found the answer. That said I haven't searched.

goose06

Yep got that from the CRO site thanks.

Had a look around generally people seem to bang their heads against a brick wall, sometimes they get lucky and get what they want, sometimes small claims works but more often than not they just accept it and play into O2 & other operators hands and wait for their contract to expire. I'm a bit more stubborn than that and we'll see how this plays out.

I've the following 2 threads running at the moment but don't expect to see anything else going on them anytime soon:

http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2056983477

http://community.o2online.ie/t5/HTC/HTC-One-X-Sim-lock-crash/td-p/618214/highlight/true

foggy_lad

goose06 wrote: »

So do I need to put in Manager Store Name or do I need to actually get the managers name to issue proceedings as they wouldn't give me his name when I ask for it.

You need the retail shop name as it appears on the CRO site, (o2 retail, t/a phone shop name)

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

I'm open to correction but I believe you need O2 Retail Head office. You can probably get the info you need through the CRO. However MAKE SURE you sue O2 Retail, there could be any number of arms of the group under different, but similar, names.

OP When you're done PLEASE update us. Far to many people come here, get advice and then don't update the thread. If people updated their threads you might have found the answer. That said I haven't searched.

The contract of sale is with the retail shop themselves not with o2 head office or any other entity.

LowKeyReturn

foggy_lad wrote: »

You need the retail shop name as it appears on the CRO site, (o2 retail, t/a phone shop name)

The contract of sale is with the retail shop themselves not with o2 head office or any other entity.

Link please - As I say I'm open to correction. My understanding is it needs to go to the corporate entity running the shops, rather than the manager of a particular shop, again as I say open to correction.

goose06

foggy_lad wrote: »

You need the retail shop name as it appears on the CRO site, (o2 retail, t/a phone shop name)

The contract of sale is with the retail shop themselves not with o2 head office or any other entity.

Another bit of misleading information from the lovely people of O2 who stated that I need to send it to the company rather than an individual so that my claim could potentially be unenforceable.

foggy_lad

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Link please - As I say I'm open to correction. My understanding is it needs to go to the corporate entity running the shops, rather than the manager of a particular shop, again as I say open to correction.

The small claim is made by one party to the contract against the other party. The op is one party and the shop is the other. Many shops while trading under the o2 name are only franchise outlets so sueing o2 would get you nowhere as the shops are owned and oprrated by other companies/individuals.

goose06

Another question for you, seeing as I am disputing my contract with o2 should I not use the device or should I use it away and accept the fault until the process is completed? I currently have the device switched off.

emeldc

goose06 wrote: »

Another question for you, seeing as I am disputing my contract with o2 should I not use the device or should I use it away and accept the fault until the process is completed? I currently have the device switched off.

Did you not say it was faulty . Or what level of faulty is it ?

LowKeyReturn

foggy_lad wrote: »

The small claim is made by one party to the contract against the other party. The op is one party and the shop is the other. Many shops while trading under the o2 name are only franchise outlets so sueing o2 would get you nowhere as the shops are owned and oprrated by other companies/individuals.

Foggy intentionally or not you're dancing around the question. I clearly pointed out the OP needs to sue the right person. You are asserting it's the shop, I've asked for the link. I've asserted, going on information I have from FLAC that they have to sue the other party to the contract, which is the company NOT the individual shop. For absolute clarity, yes the company operating the shop. Suing the store manager will get you nowhere as you're contract is with the company and not it's agents.

If you're sure you can sue an individual shop and the claim not be rejected, excellent, I'd appreciate a correction for future reference. If you're not prepared to do that fair enough.

OP Unless one of us can back up our assertions (I can't provide you with a link presently) I'd make an appointment with FLAC just to ensure the summons is going to the right place with the right name on it. It will save you time in the long run.

EDIT:

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/Library3.nsf/PageCurrentWebLookUpTopNav/Small%20Claims%20Procedure

Deciding on whether or not to make a claim is a matter for yourself and only you can be the judge of that.

In making a claim you must be sure of the name and address of the person or company against whom you want to make a claim. These details must be accurate in order to enable the Sheriff to execute the Court Order (Decree).

When a Respondent is a company, rather than an individual, it is important to ascertain the correct title of the company. This may be obtained from the Companies Registration Office, telephone no. 01- 804 5200/1, or Lo Call 1890 220 226.

Clarifying this may entail some research on your part.

Remember, there is little satisfaction to be gained from winning your case if the Respondent has no money to pay a judgment debt.

Consider carefully before deciding to make a small claim but remember that the procedure is there to help you to make your small claim with a minimum of procedural red tape and at little cost.

goose06

emeldc wrote: »

Did you not say it was faulty . Or what level of faulty is it ?

Read the links in my earlier posts

drunkmonkey

What's actually wrong with the phone? Is it the same fault every time?
You are also trying to get out of contact, on what grounds are you claiming?

goose06

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's actually wrong with the phone? Is it the same fault every time?
You are also trying to get out of contact, on what grounds are you claiming?

Read the links in my earlier posts

foggy_lad

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Foggy intentionally or not you're dancing around the question. I clearly pointed out the OP needs to sue the right person. You are asserting it's the shop, I've asked for the link. I've asserted, going on information I have from FLAC that they have to sue the other party to the contract, which is the company NOT the individual shop. For absolute clarity, yes the company operating the shop. Suing the store manager will get you nowhere as you're contract is with the company and not it's agents.

The retailer is the other party to the contract and may be o2 or they may also be a company or individual trading as o2. One example would be your local Dominos/Apache pizza is a company but the company name is not Dominos or Apache pizza it will be whatever name the franchise holder has used for their company. If you are owed by your local store you will be wasting your time taking Dominos or Apache pizza companies to court.

If you're sure you can sue an individual shop and the claim not be rejected, excellent, I'd appreciate a correction for future reference. If you're not prepared to do that fair enough.

Of course you can because it is the individual shop that is party to the contract.

OP Unless one of us can back up our assertions (I can't provide you with a link presently) I'd make an appointment with FLAC just to ensure the summons is going to the right place with the right name on it. It will save you time in the long run.

EDIT:

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/Library3.nsf/PageCurrentWebLookUpTopNav/Small%20Claims%20Procedure

Deciding on whether or not to make a claim is a matter for yourself and only you can be the judge of that.

In making a claim you must be sure of the name and address of the person or company against whom you want to make a claim. These details must be accurate in order to enable the Sheriff to execute the Court Order (Decree).

When a Respondent is a company, rather than an individual, it is important to ascertain the correct title of the company. This may be obtained from the Companies Registration Office, telephone no. 01- 804 5200/1, or Lo Call 1890 220 226.

Clarifying this may entail some research on your part.

Remember, there is little satisfaction to be gained from winning your case if the Respondent has no money to pay a judgment debt.

Consider carefully before deciding to make a small claim but remember that the procedure is there to help you to make your small claim with a minimum of procedural red tape and at little cost.

The contract of sale for the handset is between the shop and the op and has nothing to do with anyone else!

If the shop is an o2 store it may or may not be owned and operated by o2, it may also be a franchise store with a different company name but Trading As o2 retail. This company name is the most important thing as if you take o2 to court and your contract is actually with some private shop trading as o2 your case will fail.

The respondent in this case will be the shop owner, whether that is o2 or a private business person we can't say without knowing where the handset was purchased!

LowKeyReturn

foggy_lad wrote: »

The respondent in this case will be the shop owner, whether that is o2 or a private business person we can't say without knowing where the handset was purchased!

Just highlighting this point.

ABajaninCork

O2 shops are not franchises. Therefore the papers should be served at Head Office (from memory, it's Sir John Rogerson Quay, Dublin). Every shop should show the address where official paperwork can be sent/served.

*ex-BT/O2 employee hat off*

foggy_lad

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Just highlighting this point.

The retailer as in the person that owns the business and not the actual owner of the bricks and mortar building!

dudara

@LowKeyReturn Please post on topic only

dudara

LowKeyReturn

foggy_lad wrote: »

The retailer as in the person that owns the business and not the actual owner of the bricks and mortar building!

The store manager owns neither, generally.

drunkmonkey

goose06 wrote: »

Read the links in my earlier posts

Your being completely unreasonable, you were asked to let the phone in for repair for a second time and your refusing to let an engineer look at it. At the moment you shouldn't be taking a legal case as you have not exhausted o2's or the stores repair process.

Have you a password on your sim? Have you tried turning it off? There's also no mention you done a sim exchange yet.

Owryan

From my similar experience, ie small claims court case against 3. Faulty handset and other issues. I had to take a case against their head office and not their store in Carlow.

Was told by the court clerk that my contract was not with the store as they were only facilitating my contract.

Never actually got to court as comreg forced a resolution on 3 for me.

Stinicker

Have a read of the thread below, I successfully sued Three in 2012 due to their incompetence and your case seems pretty similar to my own albeit with O2 instead of Three, although considering Three have now bought o2 it is easy to see the contamination creeping into what was once a very good company with Irish call-centres and a respectable business reputation unlike Three whom I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2056415717/1

goose06

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your being completely unreasonable, you were asked to let the phone in for repair for a second time and your refusing to let an engineer look at it. At the moment you shouldn't be taking a legal case as you have not exhausted o2's or the stores repair process.

Have you a password on your sim? Have you tried turning it off? There's also no mention you done a sim exchange yet.

please go away and bother somebody else.

drunkmonkey

You don't want help you signed up for a contract you're not happy with and now you want out.
o2 are well wise to that sort of thing, best of luck with your court case the judge won't be on your side when it's shown your being unreasonable.

emeldc

goose06 wrote: »

please go away and bother somebody else.

Sorry, but I'm with 'drunkmonkey' on this one. I know it's inconvenient to leave it back again but you can insist on a 'loan' phone as it's under warranty. And just to rule it out, have you tried a new sim card yet.

foggy_lad

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You don't want help you signed up for a contract you're not happy with and now you want out.
o2 are well wise to that sort of thing, best of luck with your court case the judge won't be on your side when it's shown your being unreasonable.

The op"s handset is faulty and has been repaired once already by the retailer and now they want to repair it again and again as per their shop policy. This is not on as consumers have statutory rights which say that all repairs must be permanent or another form of redress can be sought such as replacement or refund. You should probably read the whole thread including the first post.

goose06

Hi emeldc & drunkmonkey you are clearly being trolls and I can't be bothered reading either of your posts so off to the ignore list with you. Now run along and find another person to irritate before I tell your mammies on you.

goose06

Hi Stinicker thanks for that link makes for interesting reading.

emeldc

goose06 wrote: »

Hi emeldc & drunkmonkey you are clearly being trolls and I can't be bothered reading either of your posts so off to the ignore list with you. Now run along and find another person to irritate before I tell your mammies on you.

For every charge there will be a defence. I think we're just trying to see both sides of the argument here. There's no need to be so childish with your comments. Good luck with your claim.

dudara

goose06 if you can't post in a civil manner, then please don't post. Just because you may not agree with other posters opinions does not mean they are not valid.

dudara

goose06

dudara wrote: »

goose06 if you can't post in a civil manner, then please don't post. Just because you may not agree with other posters opinions does not mean they are not valid.

dudara

Apologies Dudara I get fed up with people jumping into threads without reading the previous posts or links provided and jumping to conclusions or making statements to cause irritation and annoyance.
I was probably a bit harsh with Emeldc but in the case DrunkenMonkey his post served no other purpose other than to antagonize and if he had bothered to read though the supplied information he would have seen that I am not being unreasonable and to say that I am trying to pull a fast one on O2 without knowing anything about me or the issues I am experiencing is highly offensive. I will endeavor to rise above it and report posts in future without firing off smart remarks.

drunkmonkey

goose06 wrote: »

Apologies Dudara I get fed up with people jumping into threads without reading the previous posts or links provided and jumping to conclusions or making statements to cause irritation and annoyance.
I was probably a bit harsh with Emeldc but in the case DrunkenMonkey his post served no other purpose other than to antagonize and if he had bothered to read though the supplied information he would have seen that I am not being unreasonable and to say that I am trying to pull a fast one on O2 without knowing anything about me or the issues I am experiencing is highly offensive. I will endeavor to rise above it and report posts in future without firing off smart remarks.

Goose i'm the phone business over 20 years so I have a bit of an idea what i'm on about and I can see exactly what your up to, I've read your other post and your being comepletely unbreasonable to people trying to help you.
Legal action is the very last resort when you have a problem, your using it way to quickly, the Judge will see that.
I've read your thread on o2 and your language and manner is a disgracfull, you've refused a sim exchange, how more awkward can you be.
As I said you don't want help and that's quite obivious.

goose06

You use your 20 years of service in the phone business to cast aspersions on on my character and say I am being unreasonable and basically are making out that I'm trying to defraud O2 by standing up for my Consumer rights?

O2 were given ample time to resolve this issue and your connections in the phone industry hardly makes you an unbiased voice in this debate.

Please provide examples of where my "language and manner" is disgraceful and more importantly where I refused a "sim exchange"

Dudara, is it possible to close off this thread as an individual is only here to derail this thread and I have received some very helpful posts so many thanks to all those rational people that offered their assistance.

drunkmonkey

Goose go read your own thread on the talk to o2 forms, your were asked to try the sim and you said no, you were asked to let someone qualified to assess the phone see it and you wouldn't, you also admit that 3rd party apps can effect it and that the problem is also caused by a software update, you won't let htc or O2 near the phone.
Your going absolutely nowhere with your legal action and you've posted enough evidence to show how unwilling you are to get the problem resolved.

I asked some simple questions in my first post that might have helped solve the problem and you more or less said fff you.
I hope the judges awards costs to O2 or the retailer as your a complete waste of everybody's time with no interest in fixing the problem.

Anything you wrote can be used in court by O2, that goes for all the threads you're started on this subject.
Take it to court at your pearl...judges don't like time wasters!!